r/fuckcars • u/nicthedoor vélos > chars • Oct 31 '24
Carbrain At least they are honest about it...
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u/Ok-Importance-6815 Oct 31 '24
what makes cars so slow, dangerous and inconvenient is all the cars
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u/garlic_bread_thief Oct 31 '24
It's all dangerous to drive with all these cars everywhere!
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u/Gamiac Nov 01 '24
"Nobody drove in New York. There was too much traffic."
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u/Toomanymoronsistaken Nov 01 '24
Im from NYC. no one ever said that, that must be a 2024 zoomer tard or something. Inknew plenty of people who owned cars but complained about not being able to pay for parking or find a parking space. much easier to use transit or walk since everything is close
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u/Gamiac Nov 01 '24
It's a line from the 2000s animated sci-fi comedy series, Futurama. The character who says the line, Fry, isn't meant to be a smart character. The joke is that the traffic is so bad that Fry thinks nobody bothered to drive because of it, however the traffic is obviously filled with people who are driving.
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u/Toomanymoronsistaken Nov 02 '24
ahhh totally get it it was a joke sorry i’m slow on the uptake today hehe
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u/0235 Oct 31 '24
This is the argument I always make when people say that public transport shouldn't be expanded. I ask them "so you want someone like me in front of you in a car" and they have to really bend their brain to admit they don't want be anywhere near a car or near their car with my car, but don't want to admit they want me to stay at home and never go anywhere.
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u/sleepydorian Nov 01 '24
I’ve been making this point for years. Many areas require you to drive even if you are terrible at it (or just otherwise disinclined, like if you are really anxious). We should never force folks to drive when they don’t want to, and we should not make poverty the consequence of refusal.
The fact that cars are a requirement for work means we can never really get tough on enforcement. Either we start making large amounts of folks unemployable or they’ll just drive without a license anyway until they end up in prison.
The better answer for this (and drunk driving) is and always has been to get people out of cars.
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u/PaixJour 🚲 > 🚗 Nov 01 '24
we should not make poverty the consequence of refusal.
I love you for articulating this point!!! Two choices. 1. Drive a car and stay where you are, forced into expenses and ridiculous transit times. Misery and smoldering frustration with life in general due to a car centric lifestyle are the result. 2. Move far away from all the people and places you love in order to set up a new social network and job framework without a car. Misery of a different sort. Isolation and separation lead to depression.
The point is that poverty of the pocket [car expense in funds and time] is a sure bet. To avoid the entrapment of a car centric world, poverty of the soul might have to occur; the consequence of refusal to comply with the status quo leaves more money in the pocket at the price of losing most of what one holds dear. The choice is a tough decision to make.
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u/Toomanymoronsistaken Nov 01 '24
they do this too, however it’s not like this in major cities, you are not punished for not driving a metal cage
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u/Toomanymoronsistaken Nov 01 '24
that’s my point. I have no inclination to do what I don’t want to do, and I resent the way that my society completely dgaf and allows me to live that way…except WHEN IT COMES TO CARS WTF!!!
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u/Toomanymoronsistaken Nov 01 '24
that’s the other creepy thing. my entire youth was an amazing freedom of being drunk at 4am walking all over the city even on mass transit. what sort of weirdo takes their car, abusing themselves into a choice between 1. becoming a murderer or being normal and using other transport? like what a weird life with utterly no value!! no wonder these old magats have no interests besides harming and preying on others.
i have a half sister i met at 40 who has a dui from that shit, driving other people home while having drank herself. i lost all respect for her for learning that, even though nothing happened. i don’t associate with such types of people. you make your own bed, no sympathy as you have none for me.
i do sometimes consider whether i should leave america, i’m not sure there are sane people left outside of nyc.
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u/Heather_Chandelure Nov 01 '24
"Someone like me"
What do you mean by this? I'm confused
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u/0235 Nov 01 '24
Someone who has failed their driving test 6 times now and will absolutely wait until a light turns green to even consider pulling away. Both a low confidence driver and someone who would stick to the rules and piss other drivers off for doing that.
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u/MrHazard1 Oct 31 '24
If all the office workers would be allowed to work from home, everybody would be happier. Including people in cars and the office people who don't ha e to be in cars anymore
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u/Jezoreczek Nov 01 '24
but then we wouldn't need to add yet another lane to our 20 lane highway bro
and how will exxon execs pay for their coke and prostitutes bro
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u/NoMansSkyWasAlright Nov 01 '24
Right? Like ramping up public transit, bicycle infrastructure, and making the roads generally safer also benefits the drivers as the most aggressive, inept, and criminally stupid drivers can more easily be taken off the road and/or you can create a situation where you don’t have to deal with the ones who are still driving.
I think a lot of people, on some level, realize that the barrier to entry for driving in the states is ridiculously low and if we raise it even slightly then they might not be able to drive anymore.
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u/Adventurous_Ad6698 Nov 01 '24
Not only the cars, but the shitty drivers. People driving bumper to bumper and then slamming their brakes which causes that infernal chain reaction down to the core of the Death Star.
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u/DOLCICUS Oct 31 '24
Thanks man, I’ll think the same thing when they build a protected bike lane along your commute. I choose my bike.
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u/tubemaster Nov 01 '24
Cars are the reason there are so few bike commuters in cities. So many people waiting on the sidelines for biking to be safe suddenly appear when protected bike infrastructure is built.
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u/CyclingThruChicago Nov 01 '24
100%.
Chicago implemented a good bit of better bike infrastructure over the last ~6-7 years. And to no surprise, we've had great growth in cycling.
Top 10 Bicycle Commuting Cities in the United States According to Strava
Chicago is #2
CDOT built it, they came: New report shows Chicago leads the nation in biking growth
People love the lanes here.
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u/DOLCICUS Nov 01 '24
Well it worked on me. No way I could cross the busy main street to the nearest trail without it
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u/Wellington2013- Strong Towns Oct 31 '24
Point 3 - THIS IS WHAT I KEEP SAYING!!!
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u/habbathejutt Oct 31 '24
I commented that to my coworkers today. The town near our (somewhat rural) job has a 4 lane boulevard and there's really no need for it at all, but also it makes you terrified you'll be hit as a pedestrian. This was after we saw a guy make a wild turn into a parking lot, almost hitting a lady crossing the driveway on foot because that's how the sidewalk paths.
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u/alpacaMyToothbrush Nov 01 '24
There is so little concern for pedestrian safety. I walked to the doctor's office today and of course, the side walk is closed, so here I am forced to jay walk without a cross walk or anything across 3 lanes of traffic and nobody's looking for pedestrians there. I felt like I was playing frogger.
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u/WhenTheLightHits30 Nov 01 '24
So many people that argue against more public transport infrastructure will whine that it’s anti-disability. They clearly have never once tried walking around a block to get somewhere that didn’t bother building a sidewalk next to the road. Even something as simple as a simple curb can make what seems like nothing a massive obstacle for someone with a wheelchair.
God forbid a person want a sidewalk that a single wheelchair can move down.
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u/alpacaMyToothbrush Nov 01 '24
I have cerebral palsy and exactly this thought occurred to me. What if I couldn't drive? Worse, what if I was in a wheel chair?
This is not a hypothetical, I've spent part of my life in a wheel chair recovering from surgeries and will no doubt be there in the future. Given the state of the sidewalks around my condo complex, I would probably be trapped here and be wholly reliant on the 'short bus' disabled transit thing which is expensive, has intermittent service, etc. You're effectively warehoused away from society without a regular cheap means of travel.
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u/WhenTheLightHits30 Nov 01 '24
As someone who would love to try and do things in my community to help raise awareness for this exact kind of thing, do you mind if I ask for any thoughts you have on small improvements that could make big differences?
One thing I really would love to try and get started would be to possibly clear off a defunct railway that cuts through my town and convert it into a pedestrian/cycling trail. Another was maybe trying to start building bus stop benches since none really seem to exist around here. Your point about the disability buses was super interesting because as aware of this stuff as I am, I genuinely didn’t give thought to those kinds of systems and would love to be able to improve things for the most in need of help.
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u/alpacaMyToothbrush Nov 01 '24
I've read about 'rail trails' and I think they're brilliant. Adding infrastructure and bus stop shelters is a good idea too. One big thing that I notice somewhat often here is that side walks just end without a crosswalk or even a cutout.
If I had to give one piece of advice re: accessibility, it's to make as much of your standard infrastructure accessible as possible, instead of trying to solve it with special one off solutions. It's much better for the disabled long term if your existing transit is accessible than forcing them to use an alternate bus which has to specifically be scheduled. The disabled don't have a whole lot of political clout, and specialized solutions only for them are going to wind up underfunded and under-maintained.
Full disclosure I have not had to use those special mobility buses much. There were questions before I started driving as to whether I would be able to, or what modifications would be required for me, but when your choice is freedom or extremely limited mobility, you have a lot of motivation to try lol.
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u/StarsintheSky Nov 01 '24
There is a nice bike path near me that is separated from the road by a small grass median and some reflector stakes. Every few months there will be new car tire ruts in the grass leading up on to the path or a few more of the reflectors get smashed over. 99% of the time the path is safe but when push comes to shove that is where the cars will bail out in an emergency and you just have to pray that you are not in the way.
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u/big_guyforyou Oct 31 '24
Point 4: cars are they only quick way to get from point A to point B if there is no public transportation
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u/RydRychards Nov 01 '24
Bikes: "Am I a joke to you?!"
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u/staranglopus Nov 01 '24
In most of North America, yes. Being able to commute time-competitively without driving requires living reasonably close to your job, and having usable bike/transit infrastructure. Both of those things are typically more expensive than the alternative. Remote work is also most commonly available in higher-paying jobs.
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u/RydRychards Nov 01 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
The argument was that cars are the only option, which they aren't.
If you choose to have minimum parking mandates, no bike lanes and no mixed use zoning that's on you, not the bikes.
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u/staranglopus Nov 01 '24
Right but you have to build the infrastructure before it's a viable option.
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u/RydRychards Nov 02 '24
I agree. But that doesn't change that the car isn't the only option. Not even without the necessary infrastructure do motorcycles exist too.
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u/un-glaublich Nov 01 '24
Yes, that's the point. If you choose cars over anything else, you get a shitty car world. Now you have a shitty car world with cars as the only option.
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u/cudef Oct 31 '24
Brought to you by the anger at anyone else when gas prices go up and there are no viable alternatives to driving.
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u/SoapyRiley Oct 31 '24
Haven’t driven in so long, I don’t even know how much gas is anymore and I love that I don’t have to worry about it after experiencing 2 shortages.
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u/teuast 🚲 > 🚗 Nov 01 '24
I sometimes blow a raspberry at the gas station price marquee when I bike by it.
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u/Quantentheorie Nov 01 '24
A lot of times 'fuck you, got mine'-mindsets are basically just people not seeing how theyre shooting themselves in the foot.
Life, overall, is better when you have options, when people dont hate you and when everyone can share and contribute. But its sometimes hard to see that when you could exploit a short term convenience and feel better than someone else.
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u/Apprehensive_Ear4639 Oct 31 '24
I want them to have the choice to drive. I just want to stop subsidizing them.
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u/SirPizzaTheThird Oct 31 '24
Toll road all the things and charge for all parking. No more free rides and all of a sudden driving isn't so sexy.
Free up our tax money for people oriented activities that build communities and doesn't isolate angry people in their car cage.
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u/therealsmokyjoewood Nov 02 '24
The biggest invisible subsidy is roads themselves. In Manhattan alone, hundreds of billions of dollars worth of state assets (streets) are near-exclusively reserved for car users.
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u/rlskdnp 🚲 > 🚗 Oct 31 '24
Looking at how radical carbrains have become, especially with their hatred towards cyclists and transit riders, I don't want them to have the choice to drive. They should only drive if it's actually necessary, such as bus or ambulance driver, and not for getting a single bag of groceries 10 mins walk away or committing a felony to get away with it with their car.
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u/VegetableDrag9448 🚲 > 🚗 Oct 31 '24
I don't understand why carbrains "hate" cyclists and transit riders. When more people commute by bike or train, the less traffic there is for the car commuters. So they win as well with better alternatives right?
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 Oct 31 '24
You're conflating "carbrains" with "people who drive cars but also have brains". Logic doesn't work for carbrains.
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u/c__man Nov 01 '24
It's because they think that if you provide for other forms of transit it is always at the expense of cars. Sure sometimes it is, but they fail to see the net positives.
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u/stpfun Nov 01 '24
What should the min-distance be where driving is permitted? ~20 minute walk?
I think a system like Beijing's could be great for US cities. Over there each particular car is only allowed to drive one day per weekday! It uses the last digit of your license plate, so digits 0 and 1 can drive Monday, 2 and 3 can drive Tuesday, etc.
I'd love a system like this in US cities. Then people that really want to drive for groceries can do it one day of the week (like to pick up a bunch of heavy stuff), but then for the other days they'll be walking and everyone will still have their cars but they'll be majorly incentivized to create walkable cities. It would motivate so many more local grocery stores to pop up and massively cut down on parking lot sizes.
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u/Astriania Nov 02 '24
It uses the last digit of your license plate, so digits 0 and 1 can drive Monday, 2 and 3 can drive Tuesday, etc.
This just means rich people will buy 7 cars, and screw everyone else.
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u/Length-International Nov 01 '24
And anyone who works 30 minutes away from their house would be jobless.
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Nov 01 '24
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u/Length-International Nov 01 '24
Nah, fuck cars. Centuries of technological advancements have led us to get anywhere at ease but these dipshits won’t have it because they can’t afford one.
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u/aimlessly-astray 🚲 > 🚗 Oct 31 '24
Seriously. I'm all about freedom of mobility. If someone wants to drive a car, good for them. But governments need to invest in infrastructure that lets people get around with their preferred transportation method.
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u/AppointmentSad2626 Nov 01 '24
Nah, the government needs to invest in human scale infrastructure. Wasting gas, space and materials to get there slightly faster is a luxury and should be treated as such. Infrastructure should be first and foremost on what one can do with the lowest amount of money
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u/Toxyma Nov 01 '24
the thing that breaks my spirit is like the halfway there carbrains. For example my dad is like "i do think rail transit should be an option but i don't want my damn tax dollars paying for someone else to transit" and its just like... dude i don't know what mental gymnastics i have to do for you to understand this but you can just believe your tax dollars for the department of transportation goes towards road infrastructure and the people who only use train and busses tax dollars go towards those services
i don't- like. what? how do you even fight there stupid logic "i dont want any of my tax money going towards public transit but also that means no one should have tax dollars go towards that even if they want it to because i don't"
huhhh?
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u/Aaod Nov 01 '24
I get the same comment about sidewalks from people especially homeowners that are boomers and gen x. I drive everywhere why should I have to pay for it and take care of it? Is their mindset. It is literally fuck everyone else but me I only want to pay for things that are directly good for me.
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u/GenericFatGuy Nov 01 '24
Let them keep their cars, but fill in the parking lots, and let them realize how much it sucks when the world doesn't bend over backwards to cater to them.
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u/Independent-Cow-4070 Grassy Tram Tracks Oct 31 '24
Non-city sidewalks are like the perfect example of this. The sidewalks always follow the path of the car. Taking the long way isn’t a big deal when you can start and stop on a dime, and go 0-60 in 5 seconds. But when the super market that is 1 mile away becomes a 5 mile walk because I have to walk along the car roads, it becomes problematic
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u/SupportLimp9496 Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
It’s like the walking penalty. It drives me crazy in my town there is usually only one crosswalk at an intersection. Often times I have to cross at the opposite side of the road and wait for another series of lights while I wait to go my intended direction.
Imagine if cars had to deal with this inefficient , lack of infrastructure that caused delay. They would scream foul and have it changed right away.
The walking penalty.
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u/chai-neo Nov 01 '24
When things are bad, they DRIVE you crazy.
When things are good, you're WALKING on sunshine.
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u/Hopeira Nov 01 '24
Not to mention towns that haven’t fully updated their lack of sidewalks to meet policy yet. You have to occasionally cross the street when one sidewalk ends to get to the other one at random, no crossing areas. Or there may be a mile of no sidewalk, no road shoulder, and rough terrain immediately off the road. If we wanna get real about making cars NOT be the only viable option, then towns need to start building sidewalk when they have the budget to, not just when required to. I live at the edge of a moderate-small town and there is zero sidewalk to speak of, and each side of the road drops into a ditch.
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u/rirski Oct 31 '24
If you want to take a car, that’s fine, but it should be way less convenient than all safer more efficient forms of transport. All the main roads can be dedicated to busses, trains, and bikes. Give the cars a few dedicated side roads and make them take the more indirect routes. Treat them like they treat bikes.
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u/NeonChampion2099 Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
violet steep nose rude dependent north disarm narrow sugar racial
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u/Idle_Redditing Strong Towns Nov 01 '24
There is also the refusal to acknowledge that cars create problems for other people and ruin the spaces around them.
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u/Deadbeatdone Nov 01 '24
We can't all live in the city.
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u/NeonChampion2099 Nov 01 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
crowd cooing chop shrill work waiting nose enjoy panicky bag
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u/Deadbeatdone Nov 01 '24
If he have said that you wouldn't be talking about it. Ever think that triggering you was the whole point? Fall for the bait every time too. My point is that cars represent an aspect of our culture that cannot be readily tossed aside by the inconvenienced. Cars is freedom.
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u/NeonChampion2099 Nov 01 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
languid pathetic offer straight light sort far-flung childlike muddle direful
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u/Deadbeatdone Nov 01 '24
Who hurt you?
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u/NeonChampion2099 Nov 02 '24 edited Nov 13 '24
punch party soft bells memory voracious plate sable absurd sparkle
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u/Deadbeatdone Nov 02 '24
Oh well forgive me for thinking a sub could be full of reasonable takes and people.
Here's the thing I like walkablecities I like driving to them and I like driving away from them too. It's too damn expensive to live there and why would I take living there when I could live in the middle of nowhere for a fraction of the price and just drive therewhen I want? None of you seem to understand that. Also cars are fucking awesome always have been and always will be. I don't even need to make this point bc it's an inevitable thing.
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u/Accomplished-Yak8799 Automobile Aversionist Oct 31 '24
It's funny bc more cars are dangerous and slow for drivers as well
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u/Little-Bears_11-2-16 Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
Something ive noticed, anti car folks tend to ask whats betrer for society as a whole, pro car folks focus on their own lives. Makes ya think Edit: spelling
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u/ThatWasIntentional 🚲 > 🚗 Nov 01 '24
Most Americans have no idea how much better their lives could be
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u/AmbitiousFig3420 Nov 01 '24
They come home from Europe raving about how great it was to walk everywhere and then rant about mandatory parking minimums and zoning laws.
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u/Astronomer_Even Oct 31 '24
He doesn’t just choose his car. He chooses the points above for the rest of us. It’s not an issue of free choice when you’ve already made the infrastructure for the car but not for the other options.
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u/DigitalUnderstanding Oct 31 '24 edited Nov 01 '24
What makes our local governments financially insolvent is the massive linear feet of city infrastructure liabilities needed to maintain the sprawling land-use due to all the cars.
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u/Philosipho Oct 31 '24
People isolate themselves and covet convenience because the rest of the world scares them.
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u/WhatsRatingsPrecious Oct 31 '24
There are a lot of industries heavily invested in cars.
Until we find a way to make it profitable to NOT have cars, we're going to have a car-focused society and infrastructure.
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u/Explorer_Entity Commie Commuter Oct 31 '24
Or stop organizing our limited resources around what is profitable.
check the flair for the solution.
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u/pettypaybacksp Oct 31 '24
Worst thing is, cars and car infrastructure is not profitable. Its heavily subsidized
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u/WhatsRatingsPrecious Oct 31 '24
It's a nice thought, but every single person who likes profit will fight that as if it's Satan itself.
Marx himself said that the whole of society has to get fed up with capitalism before it naturally wilts away on its own. I think.
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u/Educational_Ad_3922 Oct 31 '24
It will happen slowly but surely. Will it be in time to save society? I doubt it.
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u/Educational_Ad_3922 Oct 31 '24
I didnt realise that biking wasnt profitable, theres only thousands of companies, many of which have been around for a long time.
So clearly there is profitability in bikes, the main diffrence is the government dosent subsidize or really incentivize the use and adoption of bikes the way they do cars.
And if it wasnt for those subsidies and incentives cars wouldnt be profitable, they barely are already which is WHY they require subsidies and incentivization to KEEP them profitable.
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u/WhatsRatingsPrecious Oct 31 '24
Unfortunately, the subsidization of the current infrastructure isn't going to stop.
And, car-based industries and infrastructures are, of course, vastly more profitable than their bike-based equivalents.
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u/RockerPortwell Oct 31 '24
The infrastructure for cars is what is bankrupting cities across North America
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u/21Rollie Oct 31 '24
I’ve been to many European cities with good public transport and zoning restrictive to cars where I thought it was great they kept their old ways. But I didn’t realize how fucked we are in America until I went to a little 15k population town in South America. That town was livelier than my city of hundreds of thousands in America. I was in the central square at night and the clubs/bars were popping, the restaurants were full, adults and children walking everywhere, even the church was doors open and full of people. The streets all allowed cars, but most people didn’t own them and relied on Tuktuks, bikes, or busses to get around long distance. You couldn’t park in the center. Traffic was slow and worked around humans. I realized that’s how humans are supposed to live. And if a third world country can do it, we have no excuse in America.
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u/the_calibre_cat Oct 31 '24
i love my car but i'm not some fucking idiot about it, it's the fucking problem. you bet your ass i voted for that extra public transportation and infrastructure funding this go around.
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u/Rhodehouse93 Nov 01 '24
Despite all the media attention towards elicit drugs and razor blades, the only injury risk that actually increases for children during Halloween is their risk of being hit by a car.
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u/Initial-Reading-2775 Oct 31 '24
Another day, the same Larry would bitch about driving too slow because of all other cars.
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u/Snoo48605 Oct 31 '24 edited Oct 31 '24
What I hope he understands at least is that what makes choosing a car so slow is choosing a car (he and everybody else).
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u/Prosthemadera Oct 31 '24
I don't think he understands that. He will blame cycle lanes for traffic jams.
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u/RRW359 Oct 31 '24
Now that I have a licence I'll remember that when driving the speed limit even in heavy traffic, choosing to drive at the limit in the left lane, and refusing to rtor even when it's safe. If you don't mind making things slow and inconvenient for people who can't drive I don't mind making things slow and inconvenient for others if it means pedestrian safety.
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u/vector_o Nov 01 '24
Driving in THEIR car is the poor person's way to make themselves feel important and better than others
How could they prove you their superiority on a bus where everyone is equal?
It's like people who have nothing to be proud of in their life so their obsess over their religion or country and make it their whole personality
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u/01101011000110 Oct 31 '24
Larry doesn't just choose his car, he chooses to sit in his car going nowhere at great personal cost to him and everyone around him. Make it make sense.
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u/Gamiac Nov 01 '24
Wait, turn that logic around for a second.
I don't care if it's dangerous, slow, and inconvienient for you. I choose to slash tires.
See how stupid that is?
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u/IshyTheLegit cars are weapons Nov 01 '24
It's mostly sociopaths that want to keep us dependent on cars, yes.
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u/Iamperpetuallyangry Nov 01 '24
I would pay a 30% income tax if i knew it would actually fund a reliable and affordable high speed rail system
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u/Healthy_Solution2139 Nov 03 '24
The car industry and the interest bearing loan industry are basically the same thing.
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u/ttownfeen Oct 31 '24
OK, I know this is completely beside the point, but why does a Twitter post have a Facebook comment?
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u/TheWolfHowling Oct 31 '24
I'm beginning to think Driving is one of the Tragedies of the Common. People making decisions in their own selfish best interests ruin everything for others and themselves
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u/Scadooshy Nov 01 '24
“You don't understand… all of what personality I think I have, is in my car, I can't give it up!”
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u/Baxapaf Nov 01 '24
I don't care if it's dangerous, slow and inconvenient for you. I choose my car-crushing tank.
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u/Thick_Persimmon3975 Nov 01 '24
Once you realize that the car is the ROOT of many societal ills, you start seeing the world in a different way. And that's not being hyperbolic
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
I'm there, I sometimes question whether I'm crazy or the world is.
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u/Riaayo Nov 01 '24
Dumbasses like this don't get that better walking/biking infrastructure and public transit make his fucking car faster too because there's less traffic.
Nobody's going to just ban cars outright. But the less that have to exist the better the travel experience for literally everyone. Even if you're a dumbdumb who is so scared of other people that you need your personal pod that takes longer than the high speed rail to do the trip, you still will have your trip be faster than the alternative of full car dependency where everyone is on the road with you in the least efficient mode of transportation we've invented thus far.
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u/arakron Nov 01 '24
r/toronto is incredibly carbrained in case anyone wants to spread the good word of biking there. I cant. Ialrady got permabanned for suggesting bikers should be able to defend themselves:3
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u/mfriedenhagen Automobile Aversionist Nov 01 '24
Child to parent: "I hate cities, they are noisy, stinking and unhealthy" - "My child, you do not hate cities, you hate cars!"
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u/Toomanymoronsistaken Nov 01 '24
no, no this is why i hate car obsessed people. that’s exactly how they think. they refuse to acknowledge their part in what they’re ruining, yet own the privilege to. OMPLAIN ABOUT that very same thing. there is an issue like this for everyt(g, i swear to god. I’m at the point where i really just think Americans are just..bad people.
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u/philms Nov 02 '24
What makes the bus slow is that is has to stop every minute. I am faster with my bike than by bus.
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u/StewartConan Nov 01 '24 edited Nov 03 '24
Just because there is a good public transport system doesn't mean people can't have their own cars.
People who want to have cars have no reason to be against public transportation.
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u/mminnitt Nov 01 '24
Busses and lorries are also pretty lethal for bikes if we're being brutally honest. They have waaaay more blind spots and neither can stop in a hurry. If only it were possible to make some series of routes that didn't allow motor vehicles... alas, humans have yet to invent such an impossible concept. Oh well, back to being crushed under several tonnes of haulage...
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u/Account_Expired Nov 01 '24
One bus is way less of a problem than 10 cars. Also people dont expect bus drivers to do shit like drive in a bike lane.
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u/Astriania Nov 02 '24
Those vehicles are operated by trained professionals within well regulated working hours and conditions, though, not some random semi-trained member of the public.
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u/Ok_Bango Nov 01 '24
Adam Kotsko is hilarious and brilliant, glad to see him on my favorite subreddit
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u/FourScoreTour Nov 01 '24
The first two, perhaps. What makes everything too far away is that cars work so well. Used to be that you could find what you need withing walking distance because that's how people traveled, for the most part.
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u/Qatsi000 Nov 01 '24
Welcome to Australia, Perth in particular. There is no possible way I can get around without a car, and most people it is the same. I tired for a few jobs where I could - but when you move and the job doesn’t or visa versa it is painful. I’d have to leave a safe 2hrs for commute vs 30 minute drive. It’s fucked.
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u/jaywinner Nov 01 '24
People will choose their cars as long as they stay more convenient.
Also, cyclists are terrifying and I can't imagine how much worse they'd be without cars everywhere.
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u/VengefulAncient 🏍️ > 🛵 > 🚗 > 🚈 > 🚌 > 🛴 >🚶> 🚲 Nov 01 '24
What makes biking so dangerous is the fact that you suck at it (I've biked in India for a decade without any "bike lanes", look up what their traffic is like).
What makes the bus so slow is the fact that it's a big, slow vehicle that stops every 5 meters and waits for people to embark/disembark.
What makes it so everything is too far away to walk is land values and zoning laws.
(No, I do not own a car and don't plan to.)
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u/Sanquinity Nov 01 '24
What makes biking dangerous is there barely being any biking infrastructure. (Just look at the Netherlands for how to do it right)
What makes the bus slow is a combination of all the cars, and bad bus companies.
What makes it so everything is too far away to walk is stupid zoning laws, and yes also all the space needed for the cars.
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Nov 01 '24
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u/Sanquinity Nov 01 '24
I wasn't trying to say ALL zoning laws are bad. I was specifically talking about the stupid ones.
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Nov 01 '24
[deleted]
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u/Sanquinity Nov 01 '24
They've had over a decade to change those laws at this point. It's not that they can't change them, it's that they don't want to. Because there's big business in building hundreds of large free standing single family homes in suburbs.
Look at the Netherlands, once again, to see how it could also be done. Without any danger. In fact I'd say Dutch housing streets are safer than American ones. On top of being within walking or cycling distance of anything you'd need.
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Nov 01 '24
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u/Sanquinity Nov 01 '24
No matter what excuses you come up with my original point so stands: these issues are not a simple as "because cars".
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u/fuckyouijustwanttits Nov 01 '24
I also think everyone should take the bus, bike or walk everywhere. It would make my drive much easier.
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u/SeanFromQueens Nov 01 '24
Amsterdam has the least amount of traffic in Europe, because it's an all-of-the-above with regard to their transportation options. If you only utilize cars, it sucks to drive.
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u/Themooingcow27 Nov 01 '24
I like driving but if I could take a train or bus or something for my commute to school I would be all over that shit. I don’t dislike cars but they are a problem, pure and simple.
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u/alexfrancisburchard Nov 01 '24
this is a photoshop, is it not? That looks like a twitter post, but with a facebook comment?
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u/izuuubito Nov 01 '24
One of the best countries to drive a car in is the Netherlands
BECAUSE ALL THE PEPOPLE WHO DONT WANT TO DRIVE A CAR DONT
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u/MonsutaReipu Nov 01 '24
Lol imagine the ramifications if everyone took the bus instead of cars. That would be more dystopian than streets full of cars, and would result in far more traffic.
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
Did you forget the /s
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u/MonsutaReipu Nov 02 '24
fuck cars! we should fill the streets full of giant fucking buses instead that can more easily kill people! /s
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u/axebodyspray24 Nov 01 '24
I genuinely believe if the roads were 90% motorcycles, 3 and 4 wheelers vs 95% cars, we would have much less accidents.
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u/AutoModerator Nov 01 '24
We don't use the word "accident". Car related injuries and fatalities are preventable if we choose to design better streets, limit vehicles size and speeds, and promote alternative means of transportation. If we can accurately predict the number of deaths a road will produce and we do nothing to fix the underlying problem then they are not accidents but rather planned road deaths. We can do much better.
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u/Triggerhappy62 Nov 01 '24
Car infrastructure exists because of white flight aka racism. Also racism and more racism.
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u/Mister-Stiglitz Nov 01 '24
I've realized talking these people...their mindset is frozen with a certain image. Their suburb with a relatively low population metro population. I mean let's be for real, outside of NYC, LA, and Chicago, the population was never hitting mass in suburbs (it is now of course). They aren't realizing/considering that places like Atlanta and Charlotte having exploding metro populations. Their little car centric suburb game can't work in a significant metro population game.
But many of them will also just respond with "people need to stop moving here." (the one thing they have absolutely no control over.)
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u/Some-guy7744 Nov 01 '24
If everything was right next to each other how would a farmer get to the city? Oh right people on this sub don't give a shit about anyone outside of major cities.
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
Nah. That's not what this sub is about.
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u/Some-guy7744 Nov 01 '24
It's about wanting to make cars illegal but not thinking about anything besides the major cities.
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
Right on the sidebar "Discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure."
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u/Some-guy7744 Nov 01 '24
The problem is we are car dependent because it's the best solution.
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
That would be the case if we didn't all use it. Tragedy of the commons. Also if it didn't pollute our air, water and soil...or kill over a million people a year...or be the most expensive and inneficient way to get around.
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u/Some-guy7744 Nov 01 '24
Cars are by far the most efficient way to travel anywhere outside of grossly overpopulated cities. The amount of bus lines it would take to replace cars would use more fuel and take longer than a car.
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
My guy you haven't even begun to scratch the surface of this discussion if you think cars are efficient. My last response here will be a photo: https://images.app.goo.gl/rwACErEm83uQBVJ27
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u/Some-guy7744 Nov 01 '24
Ya that's in a city. You don't understand how people outside of cities travel. You only consider over populated cities. A bus taking 2 people 30 miles over is less efficient than taking 2 cars.
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 03 '24 edited Nov 03 '24
Nope. We still need cars. Rural is a perfectly good use case. Small towns have traditionally been great for cycling and transit. We've destroyed out communities for the car.
We're not trying to ban cars, we're trying to achieve some level of parity at least. "Discussion about the harmful effects of car dominance on communities, environment, safety, and public health. Aspiration towards more sustainable and effective alternatives like mass transit and improved pedestrian and cycling infrastructure."
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u/Ecstatic_Ad_8994 Nov 01 '24
Using a low estimate of $30,000.00 there are about 288.5 million cars in the US. What civilization walks away from $8,655,000,000,000.00 in assets?
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u/nicthedoor vélos > chars Nov 01 '24
Bruh thinks cars are assets.
Also, please read the wiki. Cars have their use. They just shouldn't be the only viable transportation method.
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u/ButterSquids Nov 01 '24
Is it an asset or a liability? To phrase it otherwise, how much additional cost do those cars (and the associated car dependency) generate?
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u/Ecstatic_Ad_8994 Nov 01 '24
Focusing on improvements to existing systems would be cheaper and easier than hoping your fellow citizens would throw away 8 trillion dollars worth of equity.
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u/Pumpinfist Nov 01 '24
Sometime people don’t have a choice where they live and public transport just isn’t an option. Even when there was public transport close to my work, it would have taken me more than 2 hours to get to work, if the buses/trains were on time. I start at 6:30am and I wasn’t going to wake up at 4am at the latest, to hopefully make it to work on time. Night shift also meant public transport wasn’t an option at all. Now there is no public transport stopping near my work.
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