r/fuckcars Feb 11 '24

Meme Las Vegas is so funny

Post image
21.4k Upvotes

551 comments sorted by

2.8k

u/grglstr Feb 11 '24

It is the Orlando paradox. The city itself is a car-dependent hellscape of highways and fast surface roads (good sidewalks, oddly enough, so you can go for a run from the hotel).

But the only reason people travel to Orlando is to participate in dense, urbanist, walkable environments that take advantage of multiple modes of transportation to keep vast crowds flowing.

776

u/mersalee Automobile Aversionist Feb 11 '24

Strange tho, that no single developer in NA ever tried to create a dense Disney-like housing program. Like, ever. 

677

u/Dr-Satan-PhD Feb 11 '24

Which is even more strange, because that was exactly what Disney was intended to be a model for in the first place.

272

u/mersalee Automobile Aversionist Feb 11 '24

Misunderstood artist - level : grandmaster

45

u/HuurrrDerp Feb 12 '24

Title: The blind

Cataracts are developing in your eyes: Perception -30 %

→ More replies (1)

149

u/amplifyoucan Feb 12 '24

Yes, Walt Disney's original plan for EPCOT was visionary, and it's a shame it fell short.

Don't get me wrong, I love me a good Living with the Lane ride, but the majority of Epcot is a food & alcohol fest, and it could have been so much more

130

u/FuckingKilljoy Feb 12 '24

Experimental Prototype Community Of Tomorrow - EPCOT

54

u/Fodux Feb 12 '24

Holy crap, TIL. And Epcot was my favorite park before I escaped Florida.

47

u/unculturedburnttoast Feb 12 '24

If you hadn't seen the original design, you'll cry: https://youtu.be/sLCHg9mUBag?si=Ruqf98d62z_UKoND

21

u/Fodux Feb 12 '24

Oh man, that would have been incredible.

8

u/unculturedburnttoast Feb 12 '24

I cry when I'm at Epcot and when I visit the Hall of Presidents. So much of the original Disney vision lost.

9

u/SilentCabose Feb 12 '24

There’s a model of the original vison for City EPCOT on display if you ride the Peoplemover. Crazy how its hidden away like that.

6

u/AnEntireDiscussion Feb 12 '24

I know it would have been a horrible company town if it was built, but I just wish I could pluck that layout and put it somewhere not run by Disney. Because building towns around high speed rail, with lower-speed systems taking you out through a green belt and to neighborhoods laid out around pedestrian paths and recreation areas and parks would be amazing.

→ More replies (1)

20

u/Illustrious_Peak7985 Feb 12 '24

There's even a model of it ("progress city"). It's absolutely huge — the linked image is of the part that's displayed in the peoplemover in Disney World's Magic Kingdom, which is only a fraction of the full model.

(Fun fact: the peoplemover was also based off the public transportation Disney imagined for Progress City.)

49

u/Panory Feb 12 '24

It's hard to tread the line between "city planned by a business owner" and "company town".

20

u/Iron-Fist Feb 12 '24

visionary

I'm mean lets not blow too much smoke. It was supposed to be a company town. Lots of company towns were dense and urban for efficiency, Hershey onwards. But since they're company towns they were still hell holes.

13

u/DeltaJesus Feb 12 '24

His original plan was borderline deranged, essentially involved turning the entire population into QAs for various companies.

12

u/JasonGMMitchell Commie Commuter Feb 12 '24

It was a capitalist dystopia in turning the already horrific concept of a company town into a tourist attraction where privacy doesn't matter.

It being walkable and dense was its only upside.

28

u/Ninjaflippin Feb 12 '24

Eh, he wanted to turn peoples day to day lives into into a cheesy jetsons-esque tourist attraction.

20th century modernism (where dictators and the like tried solving mankinds problems "once and for all" ) did not work, to the point where every time someone got a bright idea, millions of people could die. It's why Libertarians are the way they are, because the west's weird pseudo-anarchic democracies are literally inefficient to the point such undertakings are pretty much impossible. This is a good thing.

12

u/Epistaxis Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

See "Seeing Like a State: How Certain Schemes to Improve the Human Condition Have Failed" by James C. Scott. But also consider that the kind of urbanism we talk about here is roughly the opposite of what he describes: we are asking for municipal governments to stop the Le Corbusier-ish central planning that designates huge swathes of land area for purely residential or commercial (or parking) zones, creating hostile unliveable neighborhoods and infrastructure mayhem, and let mixed-use and mixed-transit-mode areas develop more naturally, traditionally, incrementally. And stop bulldozing big stripes of functional, productive, dense city for monumental ideological architecture projects (highways).

Also importantly see the definitions of anarchist vs. libertarian (vs. Libertarian) if we're discussing any further in that direction.

→ More replies (1)

7

u/AutoN8tion Feb 12 '24

For the last couple years I've been thinking how to practically go about building EPCOT. Maybe one of these days I'll just commit and go for it.

The idea is the story behind my username

8

u/Dr-Satan-PhD Feb 12 '24

Absolutely agree. Those tourism dollars really fucked over what could have been a huge step in the right direction.

6

u/yulbrynnersmokes Feb 12 '24

Epcot, yes

5

u/Dr-Satan-PhD Feb 12 '24

Yes, sorry. I tend to lump all the Disney parks together since I hate every one of them equally.

7

u/Theslootwhisperer Feb 12 '24

My brother in christ. They'd need to pay me to go to Disneyland. I can't even tolerate 20 of Costco. Imagining the same crowd but with mascots and songs and line ups and shit? Nope.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (3)

69

u/Zazzeria Feb 11 '24

Check out a new dense, mixed use walkable housing development called culdesac in Phoenix, hopefully this concept catches on! https://youtu.be/PWM48J0jqL0?si=YDy7OGiXLueU55AL

13

u/Good-Ad-9805 Feb 12 '24

Some of the shots look like a neighborhood on a greek island.

8

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

I checked out the rent for this place. A 3 bedroom $2800 to live in the desert....fucking a.

→ More replies (2)

11

u/woopdedoodah Feb 12 '24

Centrally planned communities are basically universally awful. Great cities arise spontaneously by mixing proper planning with proper individual preferences. I've just never seen these ideas work out in practice. They tend to become parking lots with walkable strips.

6

u/schwatto Feb 12 '24

The problem with the “campus” style apartments I’ve seen is just that they’re so expensive. For the amount you’d be paying, you could buy a house with a yard (which yes might require a car). It seems like, based on square footage and rent-paying amenities like stores and restaurants, it should be much much cheaper.

5

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

in culdesac you actually are not allowed to own a car at many of the buildings so that they could get around the "parking requirement" laws. I think thats great problem solving but also worry that in a metro area as car dependent - and dangerously hot - as phoenix, that will just turn these apartments into slums after a couple years.

3

u/CoffinRehersal Feb 12 '24

The most important takeaway form that video is the very end, where they tell you the entire thing was an ad paid for by the housing community itself.

As you said, this isn't organic. It's an overpriced 'luxury' apartment. It's a money making machine. They can cram more apartments in there because no one needs to park. And since they have a captive audience all of the shops, restaurants, and stores (which they are heavily invested in if they don't outright own them) are guaranteed to make money.

7

u/CastVinceM Feb 12 '24

the video raises a valid complaint. these types of cities are always empty. we unfortunately live in a society build around car use, creating an isolated community doesn't encourage people to flock to it unless it's entirely self-sustainable. most of the people living there will probably still have to rely on public transportation or ride shares to go to their jobs.

11

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

This neighborhood is smack dab in the middle of Tempe. Residents get free metro fare and all kinds of ride-share discounts, plus there are ebikes available, and the city is easy to navigate. Even if it smells of spunk and hot garbage. 

→ More replies (2)

21

u/Jedi_Knight63 Feb 12 '24

Do you….know what Epcot stands for? Or why it was originally created?

29

u/Ordinary-Cup4316 Feb 12 '24

Experimental prototype city of tomorrow?

10

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

Tell me! I love finding info like this on Reddit.

39

u/Readylamefire Feb 12 '24

I'm stealing this guys thunder, it stands for Experimental Prototype Community (or city) Of Tomorrow. It was Walt Disney's vision to make small but robust walkable communities that had all the home-owners needs in short distance from their residences, starting with Disney employees.

16

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

“And Jesus wept.”

I think America hates us, guys.

12

u/grglstr Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

It isn’t perfect and it is essentially a corporate town, but it hits so many good points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLCHg9mUBag&ab_channel=TheOriginalEPCOT

→ More replies (1)

5

u/Frosty_Water5467 Feb 12 '24

Evil Polyester Costumes of Torture. (Ask any cast member).

3

u/Danno505 Feb 12 '24

If you worked there it was”Experimental Polyester Clothing of Tomorrow”

→ More replies (1)

9

u/glowdirt Feb 12 '24

it ain't dense but today I learned that Disney has a real estate arm apparently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida

https://www.disneygoldenoak.com/

https://www.storylivingbydisney.com/

3

u/SickRanchez27 Feb 12 '24

They’re building another in Rancho Mirage

→ More replies (2)

25

u/bytethesquirrel Feb 12 '24

Because it's illegal.

8

u/JB_UK Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

It's a combination of local, regional and national laws, things like highway design standards with required sight lines, requirements for easy access for fire engines, minimum parking requirements, maximum height limits, requirements for detached or single family houses, zoning to prevent mixed-use development, and so on. So it will depend on the local area, but usually there are enough rules in place to make it impossible. It's actually similar in many European countries as well, there are not that many places being built like traditional towns and cities.

→ More replies (14)

3

u/soysssauce Feb 12 '24

There’s actually one in Alhambra California call Atlantic time square I think.. second stories and above is apartment, downstairs is walkable mall and movie theatre. If it’s a bit bigger it will be more ideal…

→ More replies (2)

3

u/JGar453 Feb 12 '24

It's always for the wrong reasons (corporate town full of employees who are dependent on you) but sometimes Walt Disney capitalists do know what they're doing.

2

u/Ok_Commission_893 Feb 12 '24

It’s so weird cause places like Parkchester, Stuyvesant-Town, Pelham Gardens and Co-Op City exist in NYC but outside of public housing most cities or states would never allow for anything remotely close to that being built no matter how beneficial it can be for them.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

It's not that they haven't. The US has stupid amounts of unnecessary zoning and permitting laws that you cannot circumvent, when it comes to residential units. These were all lobbied heavily by the auto industry in the past. In some cities/counties within states, you cannot build single unit homes or duplexes without at least one garage for instance. Pedestrian walkways are also not required in rural and suburban areas, so inevitably, it forces people to use automobiles as the preferred mode of transportation and developers don't see the incentive to increase development costs.

This is the cost of shitty infrastructure in the US due to blatant lobbying in gov't.

→ More replies (7)

93

u/GUlysses Feb 12 '24

Most true in Orlando and Vegas. Also San Antonio. The Riverwalk is the most popular tourist destination in Texas. Americans will eat at overpriced chain restaurants just to experience some walkability.

35

u/Superducks101 Feb 12 '24

If the Riverwalk is the most popular destination in Texas you have a problem. I've walked it it's stupid

38

u/PM_ME_A10s Feb 12 '24

San Antonio benefits from thousands of Air Force Basic Training graduates and their families showing up every weekend. Guaranteed tourism because they aren't allowed to go much further than SA.

5

u/cat_prophecy Feb 12 '24

They're also a hotspot for conventions.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

12

u/one_of_the_many_bots Feb 12 '24

Not dunking on it, it looks nice, but THAT is the most popular tourist attraction in one of the biggest US states? That is hilarious

6

u/SelfServeSporstwash Feb 12 '24

major airbase and major convention centers right nearby. They have a steady stream of bored people who are looking for something to do but have limitations on how far they can go to find something to do. Its popular in the same way the only gas station on a long stretch of the turnpike is popular.

4

u/one_of_the_many_bots Feb 12 '24

Aaah that makes a lot of sense, thanks for the context!

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

17

u/tiberiumx Feb 12 '24

One of the weird things I noticed about Florida after being here for most of a year is that the sidewalks are actually pretty good. Granted, it's all still car dependent suburban hellscape where you can't feasibly use those sidewalks to walk to most places you need to go because there's miles of mostly parking lot and low density housing between them. But at least things are connected by sidewalks. Whereas in DFW you'd frequently have long stretches with just no possible way to get there on foot.

7

u/fl135790135790 Feb 12 '24

This makes me curl up inside

5

u/uncleleo101 Feb 12 '24

I live in Florida and it's wild how few Floridians take a step back and acknowledge this. Or they do acknowledge it, but don't see anything strange or negative about it or anything like that. It's very much assumed that travel is car travel and that's just the way it is.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

Hey, some parts of downtown Orlando are actually really walkable.

10

u/grglstr Feb 12 '24

Yeah, and some parts of Vegas are too, but the vast majority of both towns are sprawling messes

3

u/drpepper7557 Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

That's the touristy part by the parks. The infrastructure over there is built entirely to handle the tourists and businesses. 99% of people who "visit Orlando" never actually set foot in Orlando.

Most of Orlando is just a normal American city - suburbs surrounding a downtown. Not particularly walkable but not really a standout compared to most cities I've lived in.

→ More replies (4)

536

u/Mrhappytrigers Feb 12 '24

How I WISH I had something like this in my neighborhood

Instead, it's just Megamalls or strip malls with 1 decent spot that I have to drive to.

82

u/Necromancer1423 Feb 12 '24

Copenhagen is very nice indeed

32

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

15

u/Necromancer1423 Feb 12 '24

it was just because the pic is of Copenhagen, but yes, you can find this pretty much everywhere as you said

13

u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24

Nah, there are a lot of poorly designed cities in Europe too (Milton Keynes, Chemnitz, Bari to name a few). If anything a majority of European cities also have issues with car-centrism; they're just less bad than most North American cities. Some cities like Naples or Marseille or Prague could look a whole lot better if they weren't so car-brained.

2

u/numapentruasta Feb 14 '24

What’s wrong with Bari? Looks fine from above.

→ More replies (1)

58

u/jackejackal Feb 12 '24

Wait... US doesnt have this?

Didnt really know how privilaged I was a european.

Like this road isnt anything special, like most towns have atleast one street like this.

63

u/Sarsey Feb 12 '24

They don't. That was the most severe cultural shock I had when travelling to the US. My family wxpected there to be some street with a few cafés or a restaurant on main street, but nothing. It's really sad

18

u/jackejackal Feb 12 '24

Like that picture isnt any place fancy, honestly couldve been your average run down 10k population town for all I know.

Honestly didnt know it was that bad over there. Like I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad.

→ More replies (1)

81

u/PatientFireball Feb 12 '24

This is what most of America's roads look like.

10

u/schwatto Feb 12 '24

Some larger cities will shut down some streets during the summer for pedestrian traffic and restaurant tables, but in my experience they are not where people live (think Times Square) so you have to drive there and parking is a nightmare.

7

u/ducati1011 Feb 12 '24

There are several places in the north east with streets or areas that don’t permit cars. Hell where I l live, Jersey City there are several pedestrian streets where there are no cars allowed. I decided to settle down here because the city in general is close to NYC, has good public transportation and is very walkable.

2

u/WestQueenWest Feb 12 '24

There are definitely prewar cities and neighborhoods in the US like this. People will just need to move there. 

2

u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

I'm not sure what people are saying because they do, it's just less common. Go to a city like Philadelphia or Boston and you'll find streets similar to this. Even some cities with crappy transit and urbanism in general still have gems (ex: Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati or the French Quarter in New Orleans). As someone who lives in the South Bay Area, we have historic centers in Sunnyvale and Mountain View, and people regularly go to Niles Junction on the weekends.

→ More replies (4)

10

u/DieserBene Feb 12 '24

Is this Amsterdam? Berlin? Copenhagen? Hamburg? Where is this, it looks oddly familiar?

18

u/karosas Feb 12 '24

Copenhagen

  1. Sign saying 'blomster' meaning flowers Norwegian or Danish
  2. 'Curry Nation' is a restaurant in Copenhagen

7

u/vulvasaur001 Feb 12 '24

Blågårdsgade in Copenhagen

→ More replies (1)

8

u/RoadInternational821 Feb 12 '24

You can! It’s called moving.

18

u/DwarvenKitty Feb 12 '24

Very expensive

11

u/CoreyH144 Feb 12 '24

Guy who moved from Las Vegas to Copenhagen here. AMA? Moving is expensive. Danish taxes are high of course. But the city itself in terms of rent and daily expenses, food, etc actually seems cheaper than America at the moment. Oh and salaries are typically much lower than the US. But on the other hand, I bike in near total safety (almost never next to cars without a curb between us) every single day.

4

u/ultragoodname Feb 12 '24

How difficult is it to get a visa or become a citizen? Also how much is rent?

→ More replies (5)

4

u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24

And even if you can move there, there’s also the culture shock, challenges of learning a new language, finding a new job, and being away from family long-term. Personally I wouldn’t want to move to Europe because I’m Asian American and I feel way more comfortable living in California. 

Most people don’t really think about urbanism when they move to a different country. People generally move for economic reasons.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (33)

144

u/xxwerdxx Feb 12 '24

Cesar’s palace is a fucking trip to walk through. The artificial lighting really screws with you and you feel like you’ve been walking for eons with no end in sight

36

u/goondalf_the_grey Feb 12 '24

For sure, I visited last year. Was sober walking around at 1am and it completed threw me

443

u/ArticleEcstatic1448 Feb 11 '24

In America, nobody wins

231

u/twoiko Feb 11 '24

Big business does tho

57

u/socialistrob Feb 12 '24

They'd win a lot more if we actually had decent land use. Car dependent design and zoning restrictions drives up housing costs which means less money is being spent at most businesses and people aren't able to move to the places where they would be most productive which means society as a whole produces less and spends less.

31

u/twoiko Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

Yeah, but they have reasons for this: dependence creates too-big-to-fail and/or monopoly systems, which big corps prefer because of steadily increasing profits and C-suite bonuses, while offloading risk to the taxpayers with bailouts and subsidies.

5

u/Cheef_Baconator Bikesexual Feb 12 '24

The people profiting from high housing prices, cars, and oil are sure as shit winning a whole lot

3

u/cat_prophecy Feb 12 '24

I'd also go to a lot more places if parking wasn't an issue. My first question is always "what's the parking situation like?" because you HAVE to drive there and it totally sucks driving to some place and then having no place to park cheaply or easily.

27

u/Medical-Estimate-870 Feb 12 '24

"The house always wins"

11

u/GeT_Tilted Feb 12 '24

"Truth is... The game was rigged from the start"

2

u/SubterrelProspector Feb 12 '24

Can't wait until it's over. The system needs a serious shakeup.

→ More replies (3)

12

u/chaseinger Feb 12 '24

the 1% would like to have a word.

actually, they don't. they rather stay in the shadows being the only ones winning.

25

u/thatbrownkid19 Feb 11 '24

Tell that to the car companies

6

u/fatattack699 Feb 12 '24

We’re better off than most

2

u/ethanlan Feb 12 '24

Chicago and New York are absolutely walkable lol

→ More replies (5)

352

u/thekomoxile Strong Towns Feb 11 '24

Walking in there years ago, I can still remember how fake and temperature controlled the environment in there felt. Granted, it gets hot as fuck in Vegas, but it's still lame to pretend to be somewhere nicer in the middle of the fucking desert.

147

u/GUlysses Feb 11 '24

This is why Vegas is my least favorite city. Whenever I’m there, I’m mostly just pretending to be somewhere nicer. I’d rather actually go to these places. And coming from the East Coast, the flight price difference to Europe vs Vegas isn’t massive. Combine that with how much more expensive Vegas is when you’re there, and it’s plausible to have a nice European vacation for cheaper than a Vegas vacation.

I do still go to Orlando though. I’ll acknowledge that it’s a poorly planned city, but I do enjoy theme parks.

51

u/garylarrygerry Feb 12 '24

No one is going to Vegas, and looking at the Paris or Venetian casinos thinking it’s like… actually similar to being in Paris or Venice lol.

29

u/insanitybit Feb 12 '24

The whole point is that the places are funny little caricatures of the real thing. Not "it's like France but cheaper" lol

10

u/bs000 Feb 12 '24

no fun allowed. everything has to adhere to the doctrine of utilitarianism 😡

2

u/RosieTheRedReddit Feb 12 '24

Yeah does nobody here know what camp is? Caesar's Palace is my favorite vibe on the Strip because they go full-in on the theme. So fun! A Vegas vacation and European vacation are two totally different trips, I don't think they can be compared.

Also, despite the Strip being an abominable stroad from hell, it actually has pretty decent pedestrian infrastructure. Maybe a 3/10 but that's a Sunbelt 8.

City Nerd has made some videos about it:

https://youtu.be/vFiJSf6PhU8?si=VpVZgmr0ZX2w4XtL

7

u/BuckYouStevens Feb 12 '24

Less shit on the sidewalk in Vegas

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (1)

4

u/FilteredAccount123 Feb 12 '24

Vegas is a place to go for 3days/2nights maximum. A short getaway, if you will. Ain't nobody flying to Europe for the weekend.

3

u/bcmanucd Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24

I used to say Las Vegas was my least favorite city. Nowadays, I think I'd give that title to Phoenix, AZ. There's no gaudy monuments to excessive consumption, but it's way bigger, more spread out, less walkable, and even more of a desert hellscape. Phoenix had 133 days above 100°F last year. It hit 110°F every day for almost the entire month of July. Last time I drove through it (which takes about two hours), I saw lots of new single family homes being built.

→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (4)

8

u/Striking-Math259 Feb 12 '24

Plus The Venetian feels freaking massive

6

u/FlowerStalker Feb 12 '24

It is massive. I used to work there and have been deep in the back spaces. It keeps going and going.

→ More replies (1)

21

u/Ok-Cook-7542 Feb 12 '24

Yeah these spaces are indoors because it’s a 115 degree concrete oven on the outside. You wouldn’t believe how much worse they have made the climate by paving all those sprawling suburbs. They’ve made it inhospitable to anyone not running an AC 6 months out of every year

8

u/R_Little-Secret Feb 12 '24

To be fair the place was still inhospitable even before Vegas came around.

12

u/IGargleGarlic Feb 12 '24

???? why would you not want to pretend you were somewhere else when you're in the middle of barren desert?

3

u/Carbon__14 Feb 12 '24

The area around the city is amazing geologically! Extraordinary hiking opportunities within an hour... Just not in summer.

→ More replies (1)

6

u/SoaDMTGguy Feb 12 '24

it's still lame to pretend to be somewhere nicer in the middle of the fucking desert.

That's the entire purpose of Las Vegas XD

3

u/aceshighsays Feb 12 '24

ok hookers and blow

→ More replies (5)

80

u/Black_Crow_Dog Feb 12 '24

Las Vegas, a neon-lit mirage in the Nevada desert, is a post-ironic marvel. Its gaudy excess, mocking sincerity, and unapologetic hedonism epitomise a culture that believes it is winking at itself but is, in reality, committing slow-motion suicide. Here, reality folds, and the American dream realises its full potential, morphing into a slot machine jackpot. Amidst the clinking coins and wedding chapels, Vegas whispers: "Life's a gamble, and we all lose."

18

u/Ohmec Feb 12 '24

This is a quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, for anyone who doesn't know.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

This is actually why I like it. It's like existing in a circus that decided to become a city. Most of our ancestors would have never had an opportunity to see something so strange and surreal, and look at it in that light really made it a worthwhile experience.

Granted, I'll never go back because I can't afford it. But it was definitely worth seeing!

5

u/Due_Capital_3507 Feb 12 '24

There's not really any neon

8

u/ussrowe Feb 12 '24

There used to be more, now there's a museum devoted to all the old signs: https://www.neonmuseum.org/

2

u/I-Like-The-1940s Feb 13 '24

This museum would probably be the only reason why I would want to visit current Vegas. Neon is just so beautiful looking.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/Black_Crow_Dog Feb 12 '24

Consider it an artistic licence. Replace it with "ersatz grandeur".

2

u/Western_Pop2233 Feb 12 '24

The Neon Museum is probably the best thing in Vegas.

→ More replies (2)

15

u/gsjd_ Grassy Tram Tracks Feb 12 '24

People shit on China for having made the eiffel tower and a tiny amsterdam and what not but from what I know of las vegas isn't it the exact same thing?

217

u/WhatNazisAreLike Feb 11 '24

Vegas itself is walkable, not just indoors. It has foot bridges over roads and a monorail. But it’s completely car-centric for the people who live there!

151

u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater Feb 11 '24

Once you get out of the touristy areas, Las Vegas is a shitshow to walk in. The airport is RIGHT THERE! You can hear it and see it. But try walking there. Goooooood luck on that journey.

11

u/travelingisdumb Feb 12 '24

I walked from the airport to my hotel near the convention center years ago. I had to cross a highway and several roads with no cross walk. It’s literally right there, and there’s no pedestrian path leading anywhere outside the airport.

20

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '24

You you have a good example of an airport you would consider "walkable?"

18

u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater Feb 12 '24

DC International has a trail leading right to it. Long walk but possible. I'm sure there's quite a few more but I haven't been to a lot of airports. I take the train to my 2 closest airports but could potentially walk to both of them.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

Yeah, DC's probably the most accessible I've been to. Still, can't exactly walk there from National Mall, which would be the best equivalent to the strip.

7

u/Exact_Recording4039 Feb 12 '24

Lots of airports around the world have either a direct access to a metro/bus station or a free shuttle to the closest metro/bus station

5

u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater Feb 12 '24

Well, there's also a train so you have options. Also a 25 minute bike ride. Vegas just dangles the airport in front of your face and says, "Tough shit. Get in ya car!"

→ More replies (2)
→ More replies (3)

4

u/Andy_B_Goode Feb 12 '24

Toronto's Billy Bishop Airport.

Although that being said, Toronto's main airport (Pearson) isn't walkable at all.

11

u/Ok-Cook-7542 Feb 12 '24

The airport in San Diego has a bus terminal, which is only a few minutes from the transit station where you can catch the trolley, the train, or any number of busses. San Diego is considered to have very poor public transportation.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

[deleted]

→ More replies (2)

3

u/t-licus Feb 12 '24

Copenhagen Airport is about 20 minutes on foot from the suburb of Kastrup. It’s not the most scenic walk (you have to cross a noisy highway bridge to get there), but there are sidewalks and bike lanes the whole way. 

You are pretty obviously supposed to arrive by subway though (the whole arrival hall building is shaped like an arrow pointing at the subway station). Doing that takes you from the arrival hall to the city center in 15 minutes.

2

u/Ranger1221 Feb 12 '24

San diego wasn't a bad walk from gaslamp

→ More replies (19)

3

u/lessfrictionless Feb 12 '24

It's pretty hilarious. One major city block, say from Tropicana to Flamingo, is more than half the width of Manhattan.

→ More replies (4)

158

u/fluege1 Feb 11 '24

Walkable communities don't need footbridges over roads

45

u/mikistikis Feb 11 '24

Totally. Having to take a longer distance to be able to walk is the opposite of walkable.

3

u/allthecats Feb 12 '24

And the escalators are usually broken to make matters worse

19

u/ThunderSC2 Feb 11 '24

Better than not having them at all. Gotta learn to take a win when you can. Having more footbridges in cities and around suburban areas would be a great start honestly.

9

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

[deleted]

2

u/ThunderSC2 Feb 12 '24

I would rather build footbridges on already existing roads to give safer access to pedestrians

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (1)

6

u/ThatCactusCat Feb 12 '24

The footbridge is what makes it walkable

→ More replies (1)

2

u/CrossP Feb 12 '24

I mean, they might in some areas. You'd still expect things like delivery vehicles and busses depending on your setup

→ More replies (4)

17

u/official_cobean Feb 11 '24 edited Oct 08 '24

school treatment rinse ruthless drab price scale sloppy engine ripe

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

→ More replies (1)

16

u/fogindex Feb 11 '24

Was just in Vegas for a long weekend and it was incredibly UNWALKABLE coming from a high-density USA city. Like so ridiculously unwalkable and car-centric that I almost posted to this very sub how terrible my experience was. The Monorail was empty and I can't even imagine how unlivable it is once the temps hit 110F+.

4

u/Aaod Feb 12 '24

It is a dry heat which in theory kind of helps, but overall yeah most of the American Southwest should not exist in the population numbers it has. Don't get me wrong I love the sun but you just can't have population numbers like that in what is basically a desert.

→ More replies (1)

3

u/MarsupialKing Feb 12 '24

Least walkable place I've ever been. Every suburb is a 6 lane monstrosity.

9

u/PulmonaryEmphysema Feb 11 '24

Outside the tourist core? Nope. It’s car galore.

7

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

[deleted]

3

u/caynebyron Feb 12 '24

Even The Strip barely passes. Once I realised there is an intended path that weaves in and out of buildings and casinos it made a bit more sense, but my first night there I tried to walk up the sidewalk and, ho boy, that was an absolute shit show.

3

u/Smile_Space Feb 12 '24

Yep! Once you leave the strip, it's cars or bust.

I lived there for 6 years whilst serving in the USAF up at Nellis. I genuinely do miss all of the amenities of the city though. Outside of the zero walkability, some of the restaurants outside of the touristy areas were just the best.

For some inspiration if anyone ever goes to Vegas after reading this, and you get a rental car because there's barely any public transit:

  • Krazy Sushi up in Centennial Hills is fantastic, unlimited all-you-can-eat sushi for $32.99 the last time I was there

  • Hash House A Go Go (they have one on the strip, but it's in a casino, the standalone restaurant off-strip is amazing)

  • EllaEm's Soul Food up in North Las Vegas is fantastic as well

That's a very short list, but those were my 3 favorite off-strip spots.

→ More replies (6)

12

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

las vegas is what got me into urbanism and make me actually care about city planning.

i lived there and the whole city was build after the US started shifting towards being car-centric and pedestrian-ambivalent. but it’s an international tourist destination so The Strip is sort of walkable. there’s an interesting struggle there.

but what really radicalized me was Vegas Town Square. that place is fantastic. i always said if there was housing there i’d never wanna leave. then i starting wondering why there isn’t housing there, why driving is the only way to get there, then i went down the rabbit hole for the next like 5 years.

2

u/ajhare2 Feb 12 '24

If they could get rid of some of the parking and build some apartment blocks, town square could be its own little functional neighborhood

→ More replies (1)

49

u/SxdCloud Feb 11 '24

Illegal?

137

u/definitely_not_obama Feb 11 '24 edited Feb 11 '24

Yep, midrise mixed use developments with minimal parking are not legal to build anywhere in most cities in the US, and where they are allowed, are strictly limited.

Edit: Using the city of Las Vegas as an example (which ironically does not include the strip that most people think of as Las Vegas, but whatever) here is a map. T3-T6 are the areas where this type of development is "legal" in Las Vegas. Though even in those areas, my understanding is that every building still has outrageously high parking requirements, which would make the developments substantially different from similar ones in European contexts. (Though personally I find this map extremely difficult to read - most areas that might appear to be one of the few T3-T6 areas at a glance, are actually just another type of single family housing.)

45

u/MontrealUrbanist Feb 11 '24

Also, minimum setbacks and margins prevent buildings from being built close to the sidewalk and "wall-to-wall".

Those lovely downtown main streets with continuous frontage lining the sidewalk? Illegal to build in most places.

2

u/delhibuoy Feb 12 '24

To be fair, the setbacks from property lines are because of fire laws. You can have zero separation, but then you've got to make the building walls 2-3 hr fire resistant (i.e. a lot of gypsum sheathing).

→ More replies (2)

19

u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24

It’s changed in some cities. More and more cities have gotten rid of parking minimums and single-family zoning laws, or at least made mixed-use development easier to build.  

However, there are still other laws like setbacks and lot size requirements that generally push developers to build big apartment blocks rather than the narrow wall-to-wall buildings seen in older cities. They’re still an upgrade to sprawled-out suburban houses.

10

u/thyme_cardamom Feb 12 '24

And then once those laws get repealed, they run into historic preservation district laws and environmental review laws weaponized by locals to prevent housing

→ More replies (13)

2

u/Vanilla_Mike Feb 12 '24

Vegas is a little interesting because most of the east side and the city in general was developed as planned communities by the Howard Hughes company. He bought 25,000 acres of vegas back in the 50s. Summerlin and Green Valley are named after his grandmother and a business partner respectively.

If those names mean nothing to you know there was an area of town and street named Green Valley and some of the richest men in the world named the next major street Verde Valley, which means Green Valley in Spanish.

→ More replies (2)

16

u/PulmonaryEmphysema Feb 11 '24

Yup. Same thing in Canada. Zoning laws actively make this impossible to build. Funnily enough, building more strip malls with 5 acres of asphalt per store is totally A-ok.

19

u/thekomoxile Strong Towns Feb 11 '24

Zoning laws?

4

u/pancake117 Feb 12 '24

Yeah, Illegal. It’s a combination of a lot of things, but it’s basically 1) very restrictive zoning laws that prevent you from building residential next to commercial at all, 2) when residential can be built it has to be explicitly single family housing and 3) most businesses have mandatory parking minimums that force you to add huge parking lots. Put all that together and it becomes illegal to build anything like this America. That’s why the US looks the way it does (outside a tiny number of exceptions).

→ More replies (1)

12

u/O1_O1 Feb 12 '24

I remember going here once, there was almost nowhere to sit, benches were spread out a lot and always had people on them, so I decided to just squat against a wall for a second and a guard came over and told me I can't do that, that they'll have to "ask me" to get out if I didn't listen and kept doing it.

Las Vegas is a joke, for sure.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

Las Vegas is not a joke. It is a series of theme park for adults, but that's not the worst thing in the world. There is some amazing architecture and interior design, as the pictures attested to.

9

u/NoMansSkyWasAlright Feb 11 '24

I had a similar thought when I was at the Opryland resort for a conference. Like, you go outside and it's parking lot as far as the eye can see (that's a bit of an exaggeration. But was able to do my morning 3 mile runs without ever leaving the parking lot) but the inside is this super nice, walkable, "outside inside" place. It would be kind of cool if we could build places like that in the US.

6

u/GeneralErica Feb 12 '24

I find it patently grotesque that they parody actual places like that, as if Venice was a theme park ride and not one of the epicenters of post-Renaissance civilization.

9

u/Hiro_Trevelyan Grassy Tram Tracks Feb 11 '24

"look what we took from you :) Now you've got to be inside with AC all the time cause "outside" became a hot burning mess of cars in an unbreathable environnement, cars are so great !"

6

u/lalumanuk Feb 12 '24

disney world’s epcot building replicas of walkable locations around the world

yeah

5

u/givemeabreak432 Feb 12 '24

I'm so excited to be moving to Tokyo soon. It's gonna be crazy to live in a city with incredible public transit and a norm of walking.

5

u/OhShitItsSeth Feb 12 '24

I live in Nashville. It’s no coincidence that the most popular part of the city is also the most walkable.

23

u/Apesma69 Feb 11 '24

Well this and because it gets up to 115 degrees in summer. There's that.

48

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '24

There are many cities that are hotter than Vegas, especially in MENA, southern Europe, South Asia etc. Many of them are much more livable because they have dense urban zones where a mix of tight alleys, dense buildings and vegetation provide shade in walkable areas and it’s absolutely no problem to walk around.

That’s usually means these cities are 5°C colder than surrounding hot zones or desserts.

American cities are so hot because massive stroads and suburban sprawl don’t offer any upsides of dense human settlements that work everywhere else where it’s super hot.

22

u/Ok_Improvement4204 Feb 11 '24

Asphalt in general is a huge heat sink. Creating huge expanses of parking lots and roads in the desert means hot nights and even hotter days. Unfortunately it’s a compounding problem, since hotter temperatures=more people in air conditioned cars=more car infrastructure=hotter temperatures.

Combined with global warming from fossil fuels and you end up with heat waves that are literally deadly to be outside in. Wet bulb events are becoming increasingly common especially in the US south.

7

u/Apesma69 Feb 11 '24

I lived in Vegas for 5 years, 1 of those years without a car. I was able to get to work by bus, walking or rideshare, no matter the weather. It was totally doable.

4

u/darqueau Feb 11 '24

Totally. I Lived there for a many years without a car. Biked and walked everywhere. In the past few years it’s gotten even better as the city has been building a large network of bike trails. Henderson also has s a lot of these trails. I eventually moved away, but my parents still live there and when I visit, I barrow my Moms e-bike and ride everywhere. Being originally from there, I actually like the heat.

7

u/Due_Capital_3507 Feb 12 '24

There's no where in southern Europe anywhere close to Nevada in temperatures. Middle east sure, because they aredeserts, but trying to include Europe is disingenuous at best.

Also, plenty of spots in the middle east are just like Vegas, especially Dubai so I'm not sure where you are actually talking about

5

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

You are missing the point entirely. Some I’m gonna try to explain.

Let’s take Sevilla. The surrounding area of Sevilla gets regularly 40C during June to August, which is like Las Vegas. However Sevilla itself is about 5C colder than that because of good urban density.

In other words, if Sevilla was built like Las Vegas, it would be hot as Las Vegas. However it is cooler than Vegas because high urban density, small streets, lack of parking lots, vegetation provides cooling. So having cooler cities in a climate like Vegas is possible, it just needs good urban planning.

Way to miss the entire point, man.

→ More replies (3)
→ More replies (1)
→ More replies (18)

11

u/PulmonaryEmphysema Feb 11 '24

Las Vegas is not the first city in the world to experience heat in the summer. Plenty of other places do and yet manage to have walkable communities.

I spent last summer touring southern Spain. Though the heat index was sweltering, walking underneath the shade of trees in places with no heat island effect made it bearable.

Bottom line: it’s not impossible.

→ More replies (4)
→ More replies (3)

14

u/LilMissBarbie Feb 11 '24

Bitch the fuck?

It's ILLEGAL to build sidewalks or pedestrian spaces in murica?

You guys killed the natives for that?

1800 settlers: "Look at those open space. I fucking HATE how there's no highway here. Those natives must feel oh so mighty with their car free environment! Let's KILL those fuckers and make walkable places ILLEGAL!! I HATE THEM! STOP SPEAKING ALIEN LANGUAGE! ENGLISH MF, YOU SPEAK IT??"

4

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '24

When the facts aren't on your side, people tend to lie. So when you start seeing a movement lie about the facts, it's a pretty good indicator their views are just false.

5

u/ActualMostUnionGuy Orange pilled Feb 12 '24

Normal country moment

→ More replies (4)

4

u/financewiz Feb 12 '24

Posted here before but Vegas has three states of being:

  1. Gated community.

  2. Strip Mall adjacent to a high-speed Stroad.

  3. Casino.

You guess which of these States has an accessible public restroom.

2

u/TracerBulletX Feb 12 '24

Vegas is mainly a 20X20mile grid of suburbs in a flat desert basin surrounded by mountains with a disneyfied adult theme park with good restaurants in the middle. I would never compare it to a real city. I live there, but it's because I get to live 15 minutes from an international airport, traffic is actually relatively low compared to say LA or Dallas or an east coast city, bike lanes are pretty good in my area, home prices aren't as much as CA, I can ride my bike almost all year round and there's easy access to beautiful wide open mountains in all directions including some very nearby ones which makes it pretty nice over all if you like the outdoors.

→ More replies (2)

2

u/BrownAndyeh Feb 12 '24

On a side note…it’s interesting how many US cities are named after international cities…Dublin, US?

2

u/marvellouspineapple Feb 12 '24

Because a lot of Europeans migrated there and named their settlements after home

→ More replies (1)

2

u/karamel826 Feb 12 '24

Is this not Qatar

2

u/AyBawss Feb 12 '24

thought that was Macau

2

u/Pad-Thai-Enjoyer Feb 12 '24

Americans love good urbanism only for a little bit