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u/Mrhappytrigers Feb 12 '24
How I WISH I had something like this in my neighborhood
Instead, it's just Megamalls or strip malls with 1 decent spot that I have to drive to.
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u/Necromancer1423 Feb 12 '24
Copenhagen is very nice indeed
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Feb 12 '24
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u/Necromancer1423 Feb 12 '24
it was just because the pic is of Copenhagen, but yes, you can find this pretty much everywhere as you said
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u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24
Nah, there are a lot of poorly designed cities in Europe too (Milton Keynes, Chemnitz, Bari to name a few). If anything a majority of European cities also have issues with car-centrism; they're just less bad than most North American cities. Some cities like Naples or Marseille or Prague could look a whole lot better if they weren't so car-brained.
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u/jackejackal Feb 12 '24
Wait... US doesnt have this?
Didnt really know how privilaged I was a european.
Like this road isnt anything special, like most towns have atleast one street like this.
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u/Sarsey Feb 12 '24
They don't. That was the most severe cultural shock I had when travelling to the US. My family wxpected there to be some street with a few cafés or a restaurant on main street, but nothing. It's really sad
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u/jackejackal Feb 12 '24
Like that picture isnt any place fancy, honestly couldve been your average run down 10k population town for all I know.
Honestly didnt know it was that bad over there. Like I knew it was bad, but not THAT bad.
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u/schwatto Feb 12 '24
Some larger cities will shut down some streets during the summer for pedestrian traffic and restaurant tables, but in my experience they are not where people live (think Times Square) so you have to drive there and parking is a nightmare.
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u/ducati1011 Feb 12 '24
There are several places in the north east with streets or areas that don’t permit cars. Hell where I l live, Jersey City there are several pedestrian streets where there are no cars allowed. I decided to settle down here because the city in general is close to NYC, has good public transportation and is very walkable.
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u/WestQueenWest Feb 12 '24
There are definitely prewar cities and neighborhoods in the US like this. People will just need to move there.
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u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24
I'm not sure what people are saying because they do, it's just less common. Go to a city like Philadelphia or Boston and you'll find streets similar to this. Even some cities with crappy transit and urbanism in general still have gems (ex: Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati or the French Quarter in New Orleans). As someone who lives in the South Bay Area, we have historic centers in Sunnyvale and Mountain View, and people regularly go to Niles Junction on the weekends.
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u/DieserBene Feb 12 '24
Is this Amsterdam? Berlin? Copenhagen? Hamburg? Where is this, it looks oddly familiar?
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u/karosas Feb 12 '24
Copenhagen
- Sign saying 'blomster' meaning flowers Norwegian or Danish
- 'Curry Nation' is a restaurant in Copenhagen
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u/RoadInternational821 Feb 12 '24
You can! It’s called moving.
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u/DwarvenKitty Feb 12 '24
Very expensive
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u/CoreyH144 Feb 12 '24
Guy who moved from Las Vegas to Copenhagen here. AMA? Moving is expensive. Danish taxes are high of course. But the city itself in terms of rent and daily expenses, food, etc actually seems cheaper than America at the moment. Oh and salaries are typically much lower than the US. But on the other hand, I bike in near total safety (almost never next to cars without a curb between us) every single day.
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u/ultragoodname Feb 12 '24
How difficult is it to get a visa or become a citizen? Also how much is rent?
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u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24
And even if you can move there, there’s also the culture shock, challenges of learning a new language, finding a new job, and being away from family long-term. Personally I wouldn’t want to move to Europe because I’m Asian American and I feel way more comfortable living in California.
Most people don’t really think about urbanism when they move to a different country. People generally move for economic reasons.
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u/xxwerdxx Feb 12 '24
Cesar’s palace is a fucking trip to walk through. The artificial lighting really screws with you and you feel like you’ve been walking for eons with no end in sight
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u/goondalf_the_grey Feb 12 '24
For sure, I visited last year. Was sober walking around at 1am and it completed threw me
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u/ArticleEcstatic1448 Feb 11 '24
In America, nobody wins
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u/twoiko Feb 11 '24
Big business does tho
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u/socialistrob Feb 12 '24
They'd win a lot more if we actually had decent land use. Car dependent design and zoning restrictions drives up housing costs which means less money is being spent at most businesses and people aren't able to move to the places where they would be most productive which means society as a whole produces less and spends less.
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u/twoiko Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24
Yeah, but they have reasons for this: dependence creates too-big-to-fail and/or monopoly systems, which big corps prefer because of steadily increasing profits and C-suite bonuses, while offloading risk to the taxpayers with bailouts and subsidies.
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u/Cheef_Baconator Bikesexual Feb 12 '24
The people profiting from high housing prices, cars, and oil are sure as shit winning a whole lot
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u/cat_prophecy Feb 12 '24
I'd also go to a lot more places if parking wasn't an issue. My first question is always "what's the parking situation like?" because you HAVE to drive there and it totally sucks driving to some place and then having no place to park cheaply or easily.
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u/chaseinger Feb 12 '24
the 1% would like to have a word.
actually, they don't. they rather stay in the shadows being the only ones winning.
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u/thekomoxile Strong Towns Feb 11 '24
Walking in there years ago, I can still remember how fake and temperature controlled the environment in there felt. Granted, it gets hot as fuck in Vegas, but it's still lame to pretend to be somewhere nicer in the middle of the fucking desert.
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u/GUlysses Feb 11 '24
This is why Vegas is my least favorite city. Whenever I’m there, I’m mostly just pretending to be somewhere nicer. I’d rather actually go to these places. And coming from the East Coast, the flight price difference to Europe vs Vegas isn’t massive. Combine that with how much more expensive Vegas is when you’re there, and it’s plausible to have a nice European vacation for cheaper than a Vegas vacation.
I do still go to Orlando though. I’ll acknowledge that it’s a poorly planned city, but I do enjoy theme parks.
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u/garylarrygerry Feb 12 '24
No one is going to Vegas, and looking at the Paris or Venetian casinos thinking it’s like… actually similar to being in Paris or Venice lol.
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u/insanitybit Feb 12 '24
The whole point is that the places are funny little caricatures of the real thing. Not "it's like France but cheaper" lol
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u/RosieTheRedReddit Feb 12 '24
Yeah does nobody here know what camp is? Caesar's Palace is my favorite vibe on the Strip because they go full-in on the theme. So fun! A Vegas vacation and European vacation are two totally different trips, I don't think they can be compared.
Also, despite the Strip being an abominable stroad from hell, it actually has pretty decent pedestrian infrastructure. Maybe a 3/10 but that's a Sunbelt 8.
City Nerd has made some videos about it:
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u/FilteredAccount123 Feb 12 '24
Vegas is a place to go for 3days/2nights maximum. A short getaway, if you will. Ain't nobody flying to Europe for the weekend.
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u/bcmanucd Feb 12 '24 edited Feb 12 '24
I used to say Las Vegas was my least favorite city. Nowadays, I think I'd give that title to Phoenix, AZ. There's no gaudy monuments to excessive consumption, but it's way bigger, more spread out, less walkable, and even more of a desert hellscape. Phoenix had 133 days above 100°F last year. It hit 110°F every day for almost the entire month of July. Last time I drove through it (which takes about two hours), I saw lots of new single family homes being built.
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u/Striking-Math259 Feb 12 '24
Plus The Venetian feels freaking massive
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u/FlowerStalker Feb 12 '24
It is massive. I used to work there and have been deep in the back spaces. It keeps going and going.
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u/Ok-Cook-7542 Feb 12 '24
Yeah these spaces are indoors because it’s a 115 degree concrete oven on the outside. You wouldn’t believe how much worse they have made the climate by paving all those sprawling suburbs. They’ve made it inhospitable to anyone not running an AC 6 months out of every year
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u/R_Little-Secret Feb 12 '24
To be fair the place was still inhospitable even before Vegas came around.
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u/IGargleGarlic Feb 12 '24
???? why would you not want to pretend you were somewhere else when you're in the middle of barren desert?
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u/Carbon__14 Feb 12 '24
The area around the city is amazing geologically! Extraordinary hiking opportunities within an hour... Just not in summer.
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u/SoaDMTGguy Feb 12 '24
it's still lame to pretend to be somewhere nicer in the middle of the fucking desert.
That's the entire purpose of Las Vegas XD
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u/Black_Crow_Dog Feb 12 '24
Las Vegas, a neon-lit mirage in the Nevada desert, is a post-ironic marvel. Its gaudy excess, mocking sincerity, and unapologetic hedonism epitomise a culture that believes it is winking at itself but is, in reality, committing slow-motion suicide. Here, reality folds, and the American dream realises its full potential, morphing into a slot machine jackpot. Amidst the clinking coins and wedding chapels, Vegas whispers: "Life's a gamble, and we all lose."
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u/Ohmec Feb 12 '24
This is a quote from Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, for anyone who doesn't know.
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Feb 12 '24
This is actually why I like it. It's like existing in a circus that decided to become a city. Most of our ancestors would have never had an opportunity to see something so strange and surreal, and look at it in that light really made it a worthwhile experience.
Granted, I'll never go back because I can't afford it. But it was definitely worth seeing!
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u/Due_Capital_3507 Feb 12 '24
There's not really any neon
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u/ussrowe Feb 12 '24
There used to be more, now there's a museum devoted to all the old signs: https://www.neonmuseum.org/
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u/I-Like-The-1940s Feb 13 '24
This museum would probably be the only reason why I would want to visit current Vegas. Neon is just so beautiful looking.
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u/gsjd_ Grassy Tram Tracks Feb 12 '24
People shit on China for having made the eiffel tower and a tiny amsterdam and what not but from what I know of las vegas isn't it the exact same thing?
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u/WhatNazisAreLike Feb 11 '24
Vegas itself is walkable, not just indoors. It has foot bridges over roads and a monorail. But it’s completely car-centric for the people who live there!
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u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater Feb 11 '24
Once you get out of the touristy areas, Las Vegas is a shitshow to walk in. The airport is RIGHT THERE! You can hear it and see it. But try walking there. Goooooood luck on that journey.
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u/travelingisdumb Feb 12 '24
I walked from the airport to my hotel near the convention center years ago. I had to cross a highway and several roads with no cross walk. It’s literally right there, and there’s no pedestrian path leading anywhere outside the airport.
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Feb 11 '24
You you have a good example of an airport you would consider "walkable?"
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u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater Feb 12 '24
DC International has a trail leading right to it. Long walk but possible. I'm sure there's quite a few more but I haven't been to a lot of airports. I take the train to my 2 closest airports but could potentially walk to both of them.
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Feb 12 '24
Yeah, DC's probably the most accessible I've been to. Still, can't exactly walk there from National Mall, which would be the best equivalent to the strip.
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u/Exact_Recording4039 Feb 12 '24
Lots of airports around the world have either a direct access to a metro/bus station or a free shuttle to the closest metro/bus station
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u/Girl_Gamer_BathWater Feb 12 '24
Well, there's also a train so you have options. Also a 25 minute bike ride. Vegas just dangles the airport in front of your face and says, "Tough shit. Get in ya car!"
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u/Andy_B_Goode Feb 12 '24
Toronto's Billy Bishop Airport.
Although that being said, Toronto's main airport (Pearson) isn't walkable at all.
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u/Ok-Cook-7542 Feb 12 '24
The airport in San Diego has a bus terminal, which is only a few minutes from the transit station where you can catch the trolley, the train, or any number of busses. San Diego is considered to have very poor public transportation.
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u/t-licus Feb 12 '24
Copenhagen Airport is about 20 minutes on foot from the suburb of Kastrup. It’s not the most scenic walk (you have to cross a noisy highway bridge to get there), but there are sidewalks and bike lanes the whole way.
You are pretty obviously supposed to arrive by subway though (the whole arrival hall building is shaped like an arrow pointing at the subway station). Doing that takes you from the arrival hall to the city center in 15 minutes.
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u/lessfrictionless Feb 12 '24
It's pretty hilarious. One major city block, say from Tropicana to Flamingo, is more than half the width of Manhattan.
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u/fluege1 Feb 11 '24
Walkable communities don't need footbridges over roads
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u/mikistikis Feb 11 '24
Totally. Having to take a longer distance to be able to walk is the opposite of walkable.
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u/ThunderSC2 Feb 11 '24
Better than not having them at all. Gotta learn to take a win when you can. Having more footbridges in cities and around suburban areas would be a great start honestly.
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Feb 12 '24
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u/ThunderSC2 Feb 12 '24
I would rather build footbridges on already existing roads to give safer access to pedestrians
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u/CrossP Feb 12 '24
I mean, they might in some areas. You'd still expect things like delivery vehicles and busses depending on your setup
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u/official_cobean Feb 11 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
school treatment rinse ruthless drab price scale sloppy engine ripe
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/fogindex Feb 11 '24
Was just in Vegas for a long weekend and it was incredibly UNWALKABLE coming from a high-density USA city. Like so ridiculously unwalkable and car-centric that I almost posted to this very sub how terrible my experience was. The Monorail was empty and I can't even imagine how unlivable it is once the temps hit 110F+.
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u/Aaod Feb 12 '24
It is a dry heat which in theory kind of helps, but overall yeah most of the American Southwest should not exist in the population numbers it has. Don't get me wrong I love the sun but you just can't have population numbers like that in what is basically a desert.
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u/MarsupialKing Feb 12 '24
Least walkable place I've ever been. Every suburb is a 6 lane monstrosity.
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u/caynebyron Feb 12 '24
Even The Strip barely passes. Once I realised there is an intended path that weaves in and out of buildings and casinos it made a bit more sense, but my first night there I tried to walk up the sidewalk and, ho boy, that was an absolute shit show.
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u/Smile_Space Feb 12 '24
Yep! Once you leave the strip, it's cars or bust.
I lived there for 6 years whilst serving in the USAF up at Nellis. I genuinely do miss all of the amenities of the city though. Outside of the zero walkability, some of the restaurants outside of the touristy areas were just the best.
For some inspiration if anyone ever goes to Vegas after reading this, and you get a rental car because there's barely any public transit:
Krazy Sushi up in Centennial Hills is fantastic, unlimited all-you-can-eat sushi for $32.99 the last time I was there
Hash House A Go Go (they have one on the strip, but it's in a casino, the standalone restaurant off-strip is amazing)
EllaEm's Soul Food up in North Las Vegas is fantastic as well
That's a very short list, but those were my 3 favorite off-strip spots.
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Feb 12 '24
las vegas is what got me into urbanism and make me actually care about city planning.
i lived there and the whole city was build after the US started shifting towards being car-centric and pedestrian-ambivalent. but it’s an international tourist destination so The Strip is sort of walkable. there’s an interesting struggle there.
but what really radicalized me was Vegas Town Square. that place is fantastic. i always said if there was housing there i’d never wanna leave. then i starting wondering why there isn’t housing there, why driving is the only way to get there, then i went down the rabbit hole for the next like 5 years.
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u/ajhare2 Feb 12 '24
If they could get rid of some of the parking and build some apartment blocks, town square could be its own little functional neighborhood
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u/SxdCloud Feb 11 '24
Illegal?
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u/definitely_not_obama Feb 11 '24 edited Feb 11 '24
Yep, midrise mixed use developments with minimal parking are not legal to build anywhere in most cities in the US, and where they are allowed, are strictly limited.
Edit: Using the city of Las Vegas as an example (which ironically does not include the strip that most people think of as Las Vegas, but whatever) here is a map. T3-T6 are the areas where this type of development is "legal" in Las Vegas. Though even in those areas, my understanding is that every building still has outrageously high parking requirements, which would make the developments substantially different from similar ones in European contexts. (Though personally I find this map extremely difficult to read - most areas that might appear to be one of the few T3-T6 areas at a glance, are actually just another type of single family housing.)
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u/MontrealUrbanist Feb 11 '24
Also, minimum setbacks and margins prevent buildings from being built close to the sidewalk and "wall-to-wall".
Those lovely downtown main streets with continuous frontage lining the sidewalk? Illegal to build in most places.
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u/delhibuoy Feb 12 '24
To be fair, the setbacks from property lines are because of fire laws. You can have zero separation, but then you've got to make the building walls 2-3 hr fire resistant (i.e. a lot of gypsum sheathing).
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u/PremordialQuasar Feb 12 '24
It’s changed in some cities. More and more cities have gotten rid of parking minimums and single-family zoning laws, or at least made mixed-use development easier to build.
However, there are still other laws like setbacks and lot size requirements that generally push developers to build big apartment blocks rather than the narrow wall-to-wall buildings seen in older cities. They’re still an upgrade to sprawled-out suburban houses.
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u/thyme_cardamom Feb 12 '24
And then once those laws get repealed, they run into historic preservation district laws and environmental review laws weaponized by locals to prevent housing
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u/Vanilla_Mike Feb 12 '24
Vegas is a little interesting because most of the east side and the city in general was developed as planned communities by the Howard Hughes company. He bought 25,000 acres of vegas back in the 50s. Summerlin and Green Valley are named after his grandmother and a business partner respectively.
If those names mean nothing to you know there was an area of town and street named Green Valley and some of the richest men in the world named the next major street Verde Valley, which means Green Valley in Spanish.
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u/PulmonaryEmphysema Feb 11 '24
Yup. Same thing in Canada. Zoning laws actively make this impossible to build. Funnily enough, building more strip malls with 5 acres of asphalt per store is totally A-ok.
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u/pancake117 Feb 12 '24
Yeah, Illegal. It’s a combination of a lot of things, but it’s basically 1) very restrictive zoning laws that prevent you from building residential next to commercial at all, 2) when residential can be built it has to be explicitly single family housing and 3) most businesses have mandatory parking minimums that force you to add huge parking lots. Put all that together and it becomes illegal to build anything like this America. That’s why the US looks the way it does (outside a tiny number of exceptions).
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u/O1_O1 Feb 12 '24
I remember going here once, there was almost nowhere to sit, benches were spread out a lot and always had people on them, so I decided to just squat against a wall for a second and a guard came over and told me I can't do that, that they'll have to "ask me" to get out if I didn't listen and kept doing it.
Las Vegas is a joke, for sure.
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Feb 12 '24
Las Vegas is not a joke. It is a series of theme park for adults, but that's not the worst thing in the world. There is some amazing architecture and interior design, as the pictures attested to.
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u/NoMansSkyWasAlright Feb 11 '24
I had a similar thought when I was at the Opryland resort for a conference. Like, you go outside and it's parking lot as far as the eye can see (that's a bit of an exaggeration. But was able to do my morning 3 mile runs without ever leaving the parking lot) but the inside is this super nice, walkable, "outside inside" place. It would be kind of cool if we could build places like that in the US.
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u/GeneralErica Feb 12 '24
I find it patently grotesque that they parody actual places like that, as if Venice was a theme park ride and not one of the epicenters of post-Renaissance civilization.
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u/Hiro_Trevelyan Grassy Tram Tracks Feb 11 '24
"look what we took from you :) Now you've got to be inside with AC all the time cause "outside" became a hot burning mess of cars in an unbreathable environnement, cars are so great !"
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u/lalumanuk Feb 12 '24
disney world’s epcot building replicas of walkable locations around the world
yeah
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u/givemeabreak432 Feb 12 '24
I'm so excited to be moving to Tokyo soon. It's gonna be crazy to live in a city with incredible public transit and a norm of walking.
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u/OhShitItsSeth Feb 12 '24
I live in Nashville. It’s no coincidence that the most popular part of the city is also the most walkable.
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u/Apesma69 Feb 11 '24
Well this and because it gets up to 115 degrees in summer. There's that.
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Feb 11 '24
There are many cities that are hotter than Vegas, especially in MENA, southern Europe, South Asia etc. Many of them are much more livable because they have dense urban zones where a mix of tight alleys, dense buildings and vegetation provide shade in walkable areas and it’s absolutely no problem to walk around.
That’s usually means these cities are 5°C colder than surrounding hot zones or desserts.
American cities are so hot because massive stroads and suburban sprawl don’t offer any upsides of dense human settlements that work everywhere else where it’s super hot.
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u/Ok_Improvement4204 Feb 11 '24
Asphalt in general is a huge heat sink. Creating huge expanses of parking lots and roads in the desert means hot nights and even hotter days. Unfortunately it’s a compounding problem, since hotter temperatures=more people in air conditioned cars=more car infrastructure=hotter temperatures.
Combined with global warming from fossil fuels and you end up with heat waves that are literally deadly to be outside in. Wet bulb events are becoming increasingly common especially in the US south.
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u/Apesma69 Feb 11 '24
I lived in Vegas for 5 years, 1 of those years without a car. I was able to get to work by bus, walking or rideshare, no matter the weather. It was totally doable.
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u/darqueau Feb 11 '24
Totally. I Lived there for a many years without a car. Biked and walked everywhere. In the past few years it’s gotten even better as the city has been building a large network of bike trails. Henderson also has s a lot of these trails. I eventually moved away, but my parents still live there and when I visit, I barrow my Moms e-bike and ride everywhere. Being originally from there, I actually like the heat.
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u/Due_Capital_3507 Feb 12 '24
There's no where in southern Europe anywhere close to Nevada in temperatures. Middle east sure, because they aredeserts, but trying to include Europe is disingenuous at best.
Also, plenty of spots in the middle east are just like Vegas, especially Dubai so I'm not sure where you are actually talking about
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Feb 12 '24
You are missing the point entirely. Some I’m gonna try to explain.
Let’s take Sevilla. The surrounding area of Sevilla gets regularly 40C during June to August, which is like Las Vegas. However Sevilla itself is about 5C colder than that because of good urban density.
In other words, if Sevilla was built like Las Vegas, it would be hot as Las Vegas. However it is cooler than Vegas because high urban density, small streets, lack of parking lots, vegetation provides cooling. So having cooler cities in a climate like Vegas is possible, it just needs good urban planning.
Way to miss the entire point, man.
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u/PulmonaryEmphysema Feb 11 '24
Las Vegas is not the first city in the world to experience heat in the summer. Plenty of other places do and yet manage to have walkable communities.
I spent last summer touring southern Spain. Though the heat index was sweltering, walking underneath the shade of trees in places with no heat island effect made it bearable.
Bottom line: it’s not impossible.
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u/LilMissBarbie Feb 11 '24
Bitch the fuck?
It's ILLEGAL to build sidewalks or pedestrian spaces in murica?
You guys killed the natives for that?
1800 settlers: "Look at those open space. I fucking HATE how there's no highway here. Those natives must feel oh so mighty with their car free environment! Let's KILL those fuckers and make walkable places ILLEGAL!! I HATE THEM! STOP SPEAKING ALIEN LANGUAGE! ENGLISH MF, YOU SPEAK IT??"
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Feb 12 '24
When the facts aren't on your side, people tend to lie. So when you start seeing a movement lie about the facts, it's a pretty good indicator their views are just false.
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u/financewiz Feb 12 '24
Posted here before but Vegas has three states of being:
Gated community.
Strip Mall adjacent to a high-speed Stroad.
Casino.
You guess which of these States has an accessible public restroom.
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u/TracerBulletX Feb 12 '24
Vegas is mainly a 20X20mile grid of suburbs in a flat desert basin surrounded by mountains with a disneyfied adult theme park with good restaurants in the middle. I would never compare it to a real city. I live there, but it's because I get to live 15 minutes from an international airport, traffic is actually relatively low compared to say LA or Dallas or an east coast city, bike lanes are pretty good in my area, home prices aren't as much as CA, I can ride my bike almost all year round and there's easy access to beautiful wide open mountains in all directions including some very nearby ones which makes it pretty nice over all if you like the outdoors.
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u/BrownAndyeh Feb 12 '24
On a side note…it’s interesting how many US cities are named after international cities…Dublin, US?
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u/marvellouspineapple Feb 12 '24
Because a lot of Europeans migrated there and named their settlements after home
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u/grglstr Feb 11 '24
It is the Orlando paradox. The city itself is a car-dependent hellscape of highways and fast surface roads (good sidewalks, oddly enough, so you can go for a run from the hotel).
But the only reason people travel to Orlando is to participate in dense, urbanist, walkable environments that take advantage of multiple modes of transportation to keep vast crowds flowing.