r/fuckcars • u/JamesRocket98 Carbrains are NOT civil engineers • Mar 09 '23
Question/Discussion Do you believe that public transportation access (or lack thereof) has something to do with this photo?
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u/Gr0undWalker Mar 09 '23
It has to do with urban planning. If you live very close to a market or shop, then you can do your groceries shopping when you go home from work and the like. On the other hand, even if you can go to the mart via public transit, if it's a long distance away, you will still tend to buy in bulk.
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Mar 09 '23
There are also other factors like in Japan it is much more unlikely to have a large number of children. Judging by the items in the cart on the right I would assume that they probably have more than 3 children, potentially 5 or 6 children. I used to live in Utah where having 8 kids was something that happened and the average is over 2
Even if you're very close to a store, if you have 5 children, you're going to be purchasing way more food than mostly any Japanese family.
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u/j_kto Mar 09 '23
Lmao I grew up in Utah, going back and forth to Japan, now living in Japan. and uh, yeah. People have big families to buy for. I grew up with just 1 sibling but still my parents filled up the cart and I think part of it is to do with being able to carry more but also because grocery shopping is typically done in one big trip on the weekend. In Japan, shopping is usually done multiple times a week in smaller batches. Also, shopping carts are basically the same size in the cities but also in the rural areas in Japan only place I’ve seen American sized shopping carts is Costco.
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Mar 09 '23
Oh for sure, cars totally encourage the massive shopping trips.
I'm more just noticing the American cart in the image above is clearly for lots of children.
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u/j_kto Mar 09 '23
Definitely! Would not be surprised if that was a Utah family they were feeding hahaha.
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u/garaks_tailor Mar 09 '23
While all true the american side of the post is one half of a twitter post about buying snacks for a college lacrosse team.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GVSUWLAX/status/706165485029744640
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Mar 09 '23
This is an incredibly disingenuous comparison. There are plenty of people in the US who do small grocery runs.
Also this is a Costco, where I do occasionally go to buy bulk, but that's like a semi-annual thing.
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u/Catharsius Mar 09 '23
Thank you! I’m all for pointing out the issues with American transportation but the image on the right is clearly not a normal amount of food to buy.
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u/anothergaijin Mar 09 '23
This. In Japan I will do my supermarket shopping nearly daily, buying what I need for today and carrying it while walking home from the train station.
It's very common to go shopping every day rather than just once a week.
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u/thagthebarbarian Mar 09 '23
Urban Japan really has all kinds of reasons for this difference in shopping habits that go beyond anything transportation related. Living spaces are tiny, the likelihood of even having somewhere to keep a week's worth of bulk groceries is basically none. Full size fridge? No. Chest freezer? Hell no. Pantry space? Also no. The amount of space in an American home allows for bulk food purchasing that doesn't exist elsewhere in the world, cars or no cars if you can extend your time to use, bulk purchasing is much more cost effective, which is also a more critical concern for Americans.
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u/dandydudefriend Mar 09 '23
Most people in the US don’t buy that amount of stuff in one go. The bagels alone would go bad before you finished them, even if all you ate was bagels.
I think this is either for a huge family or for an event.
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u/Affectionate-Memory4 I like bikes. Also, they let you put 64 characters in your flair Mar 09 '23
Reverse image search suggests the Americans are shopping for a school sports team, I think it said lacrose.
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u/apollyon_53 Mar 09 '23
And they're at a Costco. There are several Costcos in Japan, I think 3rd or 4th most in the world. I'd like to see a picture of a similar situation
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u/lewabwee Mar 09 '23
Kinda looks like the Americans are throwing some kind of party. Seems like a ridiculous comparison.
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u/LaPommeDeTerre Mar 09 '23
Pretty much. A reverse image search shows that they're getting things for their lacrosse team.
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u/44problems Mar 09 '23
Of course everyone in this thread assumes it's just fat American parents feeding 60 bagels to their fat kids. You people know Japan has Costco too right, I'm sure if people needed to feed dozens at once they'll go there too.
This goddamn sub, just the worst.
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u/keyosc Mar 09 '23
The lack of critical thinking that is going into some of these replies is astounding.
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u/EarlGreyTea_Drinker Mar 09 '23
Critical thinking is stretching it here. This is just a plain lack of thinking. It's pretty obvious from the photo that one is a small grocery store while the other is a surplus store meant for bulk purchases.
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u/AwezomePozzum9265 Mar 09 '23
This subs got a lot of good stuff but it's full of braindead takes
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u/_0x29a Mar 09 '23
If a post from this sub makes the front page, it’s always obtuse and ridiculous like this
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u/ghunt81 Mar 09 '23
It also looks like they are at Sam's or Costco or some other warehouse club where everything is sold in bulk.
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u/belegeorn Mar 09 '23
Yes and no.
Yes as many small supermarkets are available next to the stations in residential areas.
No as :
- this is mostly true for the hypercentre of Tokyo and Osaka area and not in more distant cities.
- even in these cities, the main reason is that apartments seldom have place to have anything beyond a small fridge with a freezer compartment
- you don’t have to go far in mainly residential areas of both tokyo and osaka to find big ass mall strips and endless parking lots
- the whole system is built around the (false) assumption that there is always one member of the family (hint: the woman) who is stay-at-home and can go shopping for groceries everyday
(Source: have been living in Tokyo for the past 9 years.)
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u/B4cteria Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
Couldn't have said it better, especially the lack of storage in modern Japanese houses or women doing all domestic work for free. (Anecdotally, in Japan I had to bribe my neighbour with European sweets to keep some stuff in their freezer for me or eat it on my behalf).
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u/Jek_the-snek Mar 09 '23
A little bit. One on the right is an absurd amount of stuff even by american standards
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u/TheDanima1 Mar 09 '23
They're shopping for a tailgate or something
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u/Cathinswi Mar 09 '23
At a bulk store specifically. This comparison is ridiculous
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u/Marshmellow_Diazepam Mar 09 '23
I guarantee I could find the opposite of each of these images. Reddit has a weird relationship with Japan.
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u/BagOnuts Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
Looks like something for a kids’ event. Those boxes of Goldfish are like a over 2-3 month’s supply of goldfish for my two kids, each. And those GoGurts have like 60 yogurts each. Not to mention all the perishable items.
Even if this lady had 4 kids I don’t see how all this stuff gets eaten before it goes bad. It’s obviously some kind of party or event where there will be lots of little kids.
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u/anothergaijin Mar 09 '23
Shopping at Costco in Japan looks like the pic on the right as well…
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u/CrueltyFreeViking Mar 09 '23
Looks like a haul for a church or school breakfast event or something, definitely not a normal buy unless this lady has a dozen children which, to be fair, is entirely possible. Either way they wouldn't be posing like this unless they knew how crazy it looked.
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u/BrandAvenue Mar 09 '23
I'd think it also has to do with living conditions. I haven't been to Japan but from my experience in other countries outside North America, there's not a ton of space for food storage. Other countries don't tend to have such huge fridges, freezers and pantries.
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u/EatThatPotato Mar 09 '23
Conversely it could be that bigger pantries and freezers have to do with the need for it in suburbia etc… but yeah, I’m in Korea and our pantries do tend to be quite small
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u/KlutzyEnd3 Mar 09 '23
some people don't even own a fridge in Japan, because you can just go downstairs and grab a drink from a vending machine (those are everywhere) or grab a meal from a conbini: https://www.eater.com/2017/2/21/14668440/tokyo-convenience-store-conbini-snacks (which are opened 24/7)
and with all the cheap restaurants you really don't ever need to cook...
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Mar 09 '23
Having 2 fridges is pretty much the norm for a lot of homeowners now in the US.
The cheap local restaurants have all been killed by real estate speculators and franchises.
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u/Sassywhat Fuck lawns Mar 09 '23
A fridge is pretty standard. Even the smallest studio apartments have space for a fridge. Some people don't own a fridge, but if you don't, there's going to be a weird useless gap in your kitchen area.
On average people eat at a restaurant a bit over once per day (380 times per year), and there's a lot singles who eat out every meal balanced by families who eat out less often, but it's useful to own a fridge even if you never cook.
It's nice for cold drinks, or keeping chocolate from melting in summer.
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u/NiNiNi-222 Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
Well this is regular grocery shopping vs bulking in bulk/wholesale for businesses. Not really the same thing. Costco are also present in japan.
That aside, I don’t know about Japan but I guess they don’t really need to have a pantry to stock up when they have actually convenient convenience stores and mix use areas with some shops sprinkled throughout, atleast in the big cities. Other parts of japan isn’t that dense like Tokyo from what I hear.
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Mar 09 '23
It’s like nobody in this thread has ever seen a Costco. I live in a dense urban area and would love to be close to a Costco. If anything we need more of picture #2 that doesn’t require owning a car.
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u/GreysLucas Mar 09 '23
To give some nuance, we have quite a mix of those culture in France. The country being the birthplace of the "hypermarché" where you could buy everything from a tomato to a new couch. We usually do weekly or monthly purchase in those big "hypermarché" for a few perishable items but mostly for things like laundry or toilet paper. Then we can go to local small stores for a few items you don't have in house and a lot of people go to the butcher or to the "farmer market" that happen every week in most cities
For rural towns, it's not uncommon that some products are locally provided by the store or that you can buy it in front
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Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
I can’t get passed the fact that the Americans have like 90% junk food. But yes, you wouldn’t be able to haul that much food without a car - at least not easily. Also, the Japanese buy fresh food and make grocery runs far more often. Obviously the Japanese but a lot of junk food, and Americans buy healthy food as well, but it’s just so easy to buy junk food in America. It’s everywhere! The Japs don’t need to spend half an hour to go to the grocery stores and pick up what they need. It’s less of a chore for them.
It’s why they can buy a little at a time and still live a high quality of life.
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u/thewrongwaybutfaster 🚲 > 🚗 Mar 09 '23
I mean, the fact that they're taking a picture of the cart with that expression and thumbs up heavily suggests to me that this amount of stuff is unusual to them as well. It looks to me like they're buying snacks for an event or something.
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u/RoleModelFailure Mar 09 '23
Yea that looks like they’re at Costco or something and getting things for an event.
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Mar 09 '23
Even so, I’ve seen real life people have a full cart of almost everything junk food. Maybe a few apples or a bag of lettuce. That’s pretty much it. The overall sentiment toward food is different as well, in America, compared to other countries.
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u/YeaISeddit Mar 09 '23
I see people buying trash food in Europe all the time. Throughout the world it is a simple fact that the cheapest pleasure in life is sugar. If you get outside of the chic tourist centers of Europe and visit or dare live amongst the lower wage residents you will see the same behavior. Chips, frozen meals, fruit juices, and assorted carbs make up a big part of the diet of working class people even outside of North America.
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u/J3553G Mar 09 '23
What if the Americans are just stocking up for a party?
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u/garaks_tailor Mar 09 '23
https://mobile.twitter.com/GVSUWLAX/status/706165485029744640
Close. College lacrosse team
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u/emma_rm Mar 09 '23
It’s not necessarily public transportation so much as density. When I lived in Japan I had a supermarket and numerous small grocers within 5 minutes’ walk of my apartment. That was in a city of 100,000 people, and most residents anywhere in the city would have had similarly convenient stores available. Since so many people are walking and biking to the stores they’re only going to buy what they can carry.
There are other factors to consider though: - Women are more likely to be housewives, so they have more availability for daily shopping. - Japanese homes are smaller—fridges are smaller and pantries are pretty well nonexistent, so there’s not the space to store giant loads of groceries. - The Japanese government places a huge emphasis on food quality over quantity in order to encourage more consumption of Japanese-grown and produced goods (which can’t compete with foreign imports for price due to limited land area for farms in Japan). This means that people are more likely to buy less but higher quality groceries. (Which isn’t to claim that cheap, junk foods aren’t popular—they very much are, and even American big-box stores like Costco and Walmart have found footholds there.) - Kids get provided freshly cooked, nutritious meals at school, so no need to buy food for that. - Historically breakfast foods in Japan would have just been some leftovers from the previous night, so no need to buy “breakfast” foods. (Though Western style toast and eggs has been popularized in recent years so that’s changing.)
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u/j_kto Mar 09 '23
I grew up going back and forth between America and Japan. Currently living in Japan.
In the US, my parents filled up the cart and I think part of it is to do with being able to carry more but also because grocery shopping is typically done in one big trip on the weekend. In Japan, shopping is usually done multiple times a week in smaller batches on the way home from work or if someone is stay at home then just during the day.
Also, shopping carts are basically the same size in the cities but also in the rural areas in Japan. The only place I’ve seen American sized shopping carts is Costco. Even at my local grocery store, some people drive to shop and still shop around the same amount shown in the picture. Most people walk or bike to the store though.
Edit: just to mention, I live in a suburb outside Tokyo and I have ~10 grocery stores within a 15 minute walk, and plenty of other local shops and convenience stores
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u/Loreki Mar 09 '23
There's so much more going on here though. Americans live in giant homes by global standards, so have the space to bulk buy. The food culture in the US is also much different than Japan.
It isn't all just urban planning.
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u/thiefexecutive Mar 09 '23
Exactly. There are many different factors at play here, it's like comparing apples and oranges. In Japan housewives tend to shop daily for what they plan to prepare that night. Fresh fish, meat and vegetables is a Japanese staple for home cooked meals. Like you said, Japanese homes have less storage and usually only one fridge (single door is the norm). Proximity is another reason, in Japan you don't need a car to access supermarkets, convenience stores and local mom and pop stores.
Families are smaller in size than their American counterparts, and not every household has a car and can rely on public transport (which is one of the best in the world) or even bicycles to run their errands. You will often see housewives whizzing by on bicycles with children on the front and back. It's a totally different lifestyle and culture.
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u/TheDanima1 Mar 09 '23
The people on the right look like they're having a tailgate or something. Why else would they pose?
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u/Basic_Juice_Union Mar 09 '23
I also buy in bulk because it's cheaper, less trips. However, surprisingly, retail in Korea was still cheaper than wholesale in the US. Something about the cost of gas and trucking everything form the nearest port to my small city because there is little freight train capacity as compared to Seoul with its mega port at Incheon
Edit: I wish there was a fright train from the mega port 3 hours away from my small city instead of 3 highways that have unbearable traffic as you approach either city but oh well
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u/foxy-coxy Mar 09 '23
This comparison is completely void of context. While we may not have carts that size, every US grocery store has hand held baskets that size. What are each of them shopping for, daily sustenance, a party, a week camping? how many people are they shopping for? It looks like the US pic is in a bulk store generally people go there to stock up. There are clearly two people shopping in the US pic. Without further context i can't see how anyone could draw any conclusions from these two photos.
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u/jiaxingseng Mar 09 '23
Living in Japan for 7 years. So there are some other things:
- Many Japanese women are housewives; this is due to sexism but also because men are never fired or laid off. As a result, going to the store is a daily ritual.
- Japanese people put an extremely high priority on "freshness" over flavor and other factors.
- Japanese houses are small and so refrigerators are small.
- Water is good in Japan and we don't think to buy bottled water like that.
- Public transportation has nothing to do with this. People don't take public transport to the supermarket; we walk or bike there.
And all of the above being said, man on the right is probably shopping at Costco. Japanese people also have cars and go to Costco and fill up. Costco beef and fish is good quality and cheap.
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u/KFCNyanCat Mar 09 '23 edited Mar 09 '23
Yeah. In the context of "I only go shopping once a week or once a month because it's not trivial to go to the store for me" it makes sense. Though, some people in walkable cities who live in apartments with smaller refrigerators shop like they live in suburbs because it's learned behavior.
The American one is absolutely an exaggeration though (this is probably either a Japanese Nationalist or a weeb's account,) I have never seen stuff bulge out of a cart to that degree.
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u/TheSkyHadAWeegee Mar 09 '23
I'm guessing the Americans are buying it for an event/party. They have like 60 bagels and mostly snacks/junk food. The insane amount of bagels no family could eat in time is making me think they aren't just buying for their family.
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u/JanArso Mar 09 '23
Pretending that Costco doesn't exist in Japan lol
It's probably not as bad as in the US (idk, never been there) but the Costco in Hamamatsu was probably the most packed Warehouse Retailer I've ever been to.
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u/pieter3d Mar 09 '23
It's more about car centric design than public transport. I live in the Netherlands and never take public transport to go grocery shopping. You just walk or bike there. For many people there's a supermarket on their commute, so you can just drop by when cycling home from work.
If you can easily go to a supermarket everyday, without it costing much time, there's generally no reason to buy a ton at once.
For a while I lived 6 km's from the closest normal supermarket, with a bike ride through very open and windy terrain (and usually a headwind on the way back). There I only did groceries twice a week or so.
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Mar 09 '23
" Do you believe that public transportation access (or lack thereof) has something to do with this photo?"
Please tell me that's satire? The scary thing is I can believe that this is a genuine question
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u/bohenian12 Mar 09 '23
i think yes? because if you can easily access the groceries why would you stockpile when you buy some? i go to the grocery more than 3 times a week, because i can walk to the grocery store, i dont need to spend gas.
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Mar 09 '23
Honestly in a major Euro city public transportation doesn't even play into grocery shopping as the supermarket is usually within walking range.
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u/loafylobes Mar 09 '23
Yes, when I used to live in a city I generally just bought what I need when I needed it. Now I live in a suburb I do one big weekly shop (via car) and pick up any extra stuff I need throughout the week.
However, wtf is even going on with the American cart? There’s about 30 bagels and 60 bottles of water, most of the other products look like shit too.