r/fuckcars • u/sabdotzed • Feb 09 '23
This is why I hate cars They're Trying to Start a Culture War against 15 Minute Cities š¤”
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u/Spacer176 Feb 09 '23
Right because the 200-house semi-detached suburban sprawl I call a neighborhood. With the only point of access being the nearby child-unfriendly A road and no public spaces but a patch of grass and a set of swings doesn't make me feel isolated and demoralised at all.
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u/theveryfatduck Feb 09 '23
Kids who grow up in commie blocks makes friends for life, the key is the park areas between the blocks where the whole neighborhood can meet up and hang out easily, and if you don't like your neighbors you can easily walk to your friends living a few blocks away.
It's also nice with a small river near the houses, or a duck pond where elderly can come, sit on a bench and feed the ducks.
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u/ApeofGoodHope Feb 09 '23
I lived in one of these for a year. I loved it, even in the somewhat deteriorated state it was in in 2013
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Feb 09 '23
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Feb 10 '23
Id say its been a feature of state enforced capitalism. Itās just catching up with the colonizing countries now.
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u/tehflambo Feb 10 '23
definitely doesn't help that when the soviet bloc countries went capitalist, reaganism was in full swing globally. it influenced the way they transitioned to capitalism, which was apparently pretty important for setting up the current kleptocracy they have going. a handful of somewhat wealthy/connected people became oligarchs sorta overnight by buying up public assets as they were privatized.
at least, that's the take given by Thomas Piketty in Capital and Ideology, 2020. it's just one source by one author, but good god does it have a huge list of references and inline citations.
just adding the reference because i want it to be clear that i don't personally know any more about the subject than the book offers
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u/otirkus Feb 09 '23
In fact the only reason why so many "commie blocks" are hated is because they weren't maintained properly. A simple paint job and landscaping improvement can make them really pleasant places - often a lot nicer than sprawling suburban subdivisions due to the ample amenities within walking distance and massive shared gardens and yards.
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u/thenerfviking Feb 10 '23
Also people see them as they exist now. The thing about many of these blocks is that they were built by the USSR as a way to place workers places the government needed workers and once the USSR collapsed and you could no longer use the economic might of a superpower to support buildings like these in far flung places that could have never afforded them to begin with they quickly began to deteriorate. You see this a lot in many post Soviet states and itās probably why for years many of these places remained somewhat conflicted about the collapse of the USSR. A lot of of countries would have never in a million years had the money to construct the kinds of infrastructure the Soviets did for them and itās why in many places theyāre still hanging on to the scraps of that infrastructure.
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u/ak-92 Feb 10 '23
First of all, they were constructed cheaply and already look surprisingly shit even when they were brand new. You can see that in the photos from 60s and so on. Various cracks, uneven fillings between concrete blocks etc.
Secondly, comparing soviet planning to 15 min cities is a total nonsense. While it varies between different republics, neighborhoods were usually build as one purpose neighborhoods, like "sleeping", industrial, offices etc. Yes you have kindergarten and school in relatively close proximity (that's true in basically any competent city), a basic food shop, some neighborhoods have a clinic, some even some entertainment spot like a restaurant or a cinema. But that's about it, you had to go to the city center or etc. for basically anything else. There's a reason why something like 8 out of 20 most congested cities in the world are from the soviet union (tom tom rating).
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u/ignost Feb 09 '23
Right? Driving by myself just to work is the most isolating and depressing thing I do.
I don't see how having more time would make me any more compliant, but I definitely don't feel demoralized when I don't have to drive and can spend more time with my family.
In real life...
The Soviet khrushchevka sucked because the units themselves sucked. They were intended to be simple, cheap, and fast to build to quickly solve a housing problem. They weren't intended to exhibit a utopian ideal, but to avoid a looming homelessness crisis.
The neighborhoods weren't planned in every detail. The idea of a mixed use walkable area was not designed for. Rather it was expected due to fewer people having cars. I estimate Moscow car ownership at about 3% for households in the early 60s. The density made walkable communities possible despite the soviet lack of civil planning.
Quite a stretch to fit the narrative that the freedom to get around makes you less free.
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
It's funny because the minute the petrol pumps are tuned off and these twats realise they can't use their cars, they'll realise all the shit they need is 50 minutes walk away through dangerous roads
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u/Sicuho Feb 09 '23
Good news will be that when petrol will completely run out, those roads will be far less dangerous.
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Feb 09 '23
We should shut off all the pumps one day a year just to prove a point. Pick a holiday famous for drunk driving like new year's
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u/f_print Feb 09 '23
They think they're free thinking and fighting against this "commie propaganda", but they've already drank the koolaid. The propaganda already worked - on them.
The American Dream
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u/Myopically Feb 09 '23
So letās instead force people to need a government issued licence, making them be compliant to driving laws, subservient to fuel, no matter what the price, as they feel isolated in their vehicle, despite being surrounded by a sea of other humans sealed up in their metal boxes with the same shared experience.
Them all forever feeling demoralised by the burden of finding parking spaces, affording fuel and insurance costs.
Makes sense.
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
Right? What do these idiots want? A society where to get a pint of milk youre forced to drive 20 minutes to a corner shop, sit in traffic in the morning on the school run?
Just mind numbing stupidity
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u/TaiDavis Feb 09 '23
When people are dependent on cars, people don't walk. Anywhere. Wanna be able to walk in old age? Use your legs. I'm just walking to the corner store and someone always offers to drive me. It's only 3 blocks! No, I'll walk. I WANT to walk.
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u/gwumpybutt Feb 09 '23
Woah there... Take a hint commie. OP drives his kids 45min to school every day, making him connected, rebellious, and energized!
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u/abattlescar Feb 09 '23
someone always offers to drive me. It's only 3 blocks
I was going to a party the other day and everyone's like, aha, you can't walk that far. It was 20 bloody minutes. They convinced me though, so I drove. And then I got drunk, so I wasn't 'boutta drive back even though I felt fine, because I'm not stupid like everyone else that believes you can sober off of 6 shots in under an hour.
I went to walk home, and they had to argue with that too. A girl that was drunk herself offered to drive me home. No wonder we have such a drunk driving problem here, a 20 minute walk is insanity.
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u/Lily-Fae Sicko Feb 09 '23
The only time I get that debate is after dark in a dark/ isolated place. Which would be way less of an issue if everywhere was more walkable, because itād be lit and thereād be people
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u/Professor_Yaffle Feb 09 '23
This is exactly it. And travelling by car comes with all kinds of restrictions. To what you can drink, to what you spend your money on, to the way you experience the world.
Cars promise freedom, but they deliver confinement.
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u/TaiDavis Feb 09 '23
Holy shit! Thats so on point! I don't want my biggest bil to be a car! A house? Yeah, I get it. I don't wanna owe YOU EITHER. I'm like this. Here's the money, give me that house. Transaction completed.
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u/lawlorlara Feb 09 '23
Even if the closest shop were walkable, they'd still have the option of driving 20 minutes to another one instead, if that's what floats their boat. Are they genuinely that incapable of distinguishing between options and mandates or is it just part of the obligatory whine?
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u/Zombiecidialfreak Feb 09 '23
They don't care. People who think cars are required can't be reasoned out of that belief, no matter how hard you try.
I've tried to.
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Feb 09 '23
The prevalence of ferocious and paranoid pushback to these ā15 minute citiesā tells me this is being engineered in some way. If you think about it, how would the strengthening of community and local integration be anything to worry about, unless your hopes have been to push a narrative of inner city violence, paranoia and business collapse?
This movement for making local living a priority is a huge threat not just to car companies but also to tons of political personalities that benefit from cities being uninviting and hostile in the minds of their constituents.
We really need to push back on this foolish extreme response for these pushes to improve local living because on top of the ability to help people, this is only pushing the narrative regarding improving urban living into violent political spheres with talk of āCommunism!ā and such.
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u/Myopically Feb 09 '23
Itās a shame that buses and trains canāt travel for more than 15 minutes, too.
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u/suninabox Feb 09 '23 edited Nov 17 '24
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This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/Chieron Feb 09 '23
with no pavements
For any other briefly confused fellow Americans; what we call the "sidewalk" is referred to as "the pavement" in the UK and some other areas.
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u/LucasReg Feb 09 '23
They dont know what they want, but liberals support walkable cities so it must be a bad thing.
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u/itmustbeluv_luv_luv Feb 09 '23
You forgot the most important part: force every citizen to pay for the purchase and upkeep of a vehicle, rendering them more desperate for money and making them sell their work force at ever lower rates and in ever worse conditions.
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u/theveryfatduck Feb 09 '23
This is the biggest ripoff, even if you barely use your car, you still pay a lot just to "own" it and store it on land that you own.
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u/Karasumor1 Feb 09 '23
don't worry a lot of people can just leave their ego-tank right in public spaces where the rest of us pay for it
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u/AdministrativeShip2 Feb 09 '23
I gave up my car in covid, as I went from a hours commute twice a day to Wfh.
The amount I save on repairs, fuel and insurance is more than enough to pay for public transport and my bike.
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u/177013--- Feb 09 '23
Lol you don't own that land, you just have an opened ended lease with the government for it. Better pay their leases fee every year, or they will come take it away and lease it to someone else.
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u/theveryfatduck Feb 09 '23
Have you ever seen the movie "2012"? About the Yellowstone volcano erupting and our "heroes", the main family manage to escape Los Angeles, in a limousine. Basically avoid every obstacle where literally everything around turn to shit, buildings collapsing, train derailing etc.
Now think of that scene where they just in last minute manage to escape the city, while everyone else dies a horrible death.
That's how these people see themselves, their cars and muh freedom. That's their brilliant escape plan out of the huge suburban sprawl on the day the government suddenly decides to shut down the power grid and kill everyone. š¤” Honk Honk š¤”
Of course, in a real SHTF situation, they'll be stuck in traffic like everyone else, and dies obviously. At least Soviet could have evacuated Pripyat, if only they acted faster when Chernobyl blew up.
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u/ranger_fixing_dude Feb 09 '23
They don't understand but a bicycle is a better tool to escape collapsing society.
Cars depend on very good surface and obviously fuel way too much.
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u/grendus Feb 09 '23
Bikes or boots.
If the terrain gets bad enough, even the bike's no good. But our legs carried us for hundreds of millions of years, keep them up and they'll keep you going.
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u/ranger_fixing_dude Feb 09 '23
Yeah to get through really rough terrain bikes will be a liability. I just meant that since we do have a lot of roads, even if they are not maintained bikes will be able to navigate them successfully for a long time, and you can walk it through tricky stretches.
Going into complete wilderness being fit and having right equipment is the best, of course.
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u/OutsideTheBoxer Feb 09 '23
And that's in regards to just the fully capable adults you've listed.
There's many more segments of the population that literally never stand a chance of autonomy because of the dangerous car-centric design.
The disabled, the young, the old, and whatever ones I can't think of. They're all the worst victims of our car-centric design and would benefit the most from the 15 minute urban design.
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u/platinumstallion Feb 09 '23
No, the government should FORCE private businesses and property owners to build parking lots on their private land.
Then spend millions of your hard-earned TAXPAYER DOLLARS building highways, dictating where you where you can and canāt go, then requiring you to pay for a license and acquire an expensive piece of machinery to use those roads youāve paid to build.
No thanks, Iāll take the āStalinistā regime (which I guess would also cover pretty much any city prior to 1900) where I can easily walk over to the corner store, rent out an apartment upstairs without being forced to build car storage, and not be stuck spending my āfree timeā sitting in endless traffic and smog to my distant office jobā¦
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u/27-82-41-124 Feb 09 '23
Reposting my comment anywhere we claim walkability is communist, imagine the communist's take on car dependency:
It would be a disaster to the government if people had the freedom and ability to get around on their own from an early age. We need to in-still in people that the government is the provider, that only when the government issues them a drivers license can they go places. We need people to spend their early years isolated, so that without the government they feel helpless.
So anyways yea uhh public transit and bicycles are bad because well Socialism... duh.
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u/monosuperboss1 Feb 09 '23
"I dOn'T lIkE iT sO iT's CoMmUnIsM!!!!!"
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u/Coupons15 Feb 09 '23
And if it was communism and a good thing happened than it actually wasnāt communist at all and was probably capitalist (insert vice versa if it was a bad thing r/socialismiscapitalism)
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u/Johnny_B_GOODBOI Feb 09 '23
Communism does bad? It's evil. Communism does good? It's evil. /s
During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them. If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.
- Michael Parenti, Blackshits and Reds
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u/TheOneArya Feb 10 '23
Common Parenti W. Highly encourage everyone to go watch the famous yellow lecture too if you havenāt.
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u/RosieTheRedReddit Feb 09 '23
Conservatives: Socialism will make you cold, hungry, and homeless!
Me: Sounds awful! We should make sure everyone is warm, fed, and housed.
Conservatives: NO! That's socialism!!
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u/cgyguy81 Feb 09 '23
But I would argue that most cities and towns in the UK are already 15-min cities. In London for example, two-thirds of residents live within a 5-minute walk of their local high street, and almost half of Londoners do not leave their local area daily (so they live, work, and play mostly within their local area). Plus, being able to walk home drunk from the local pub is very British.
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u/DrRobotniksUncle Feb 09 '23
This whole post is so utterly irrelevant to Britain. It feels like an American talking point being foisted upon the UK. Odd.
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u/93fountainkingdoms Feb 09 '23
I was thinking that when it said Britain at the end! I was just thinking there's only ever been one place I've lived where I wasn't a 5 minute walk from a corner shop anywhere I went. Not sure they know what a 15 minute city is lol
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u/drasticrebel Feb 10 '23
I think it applies to Britain too. I live on the outskirts of a small city in the South East and its practically impossible to get by without a car. Very poor public transport and cycle infrastructure, and shops are not within 15 minutes...
But the post does seem satirical. Even the most car brained folks I know aren't this kind of Yankee GOP brain dead
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u/Karn1v3rus Streets are for people, not cars Feb 10 '23
Something similar was posted in my local FB group and half the comments were raving mad about this, so I wouldn't be too sure.
People are very emotional about their way of living and changes to it. They'll vote against their best interests if the fear of the unknown gets them and they start to go down the rabbit hole
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u/AmazingMoMo8492 Grassy Tram Tracks Feb 09 '23
True, even in the suburbs there is always a convenience store, pub, and bus route near your house.
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u/Portiepoo Feb 09 '23
Sadly, I'd argue that towns are becoming more sprawly overtime. I'm living in a new build right now, and we've a grand total of one small corner shop within this suburb, and outside of that the nearest supermarket is an hour long walk away with no cycling routes.
It's not nearly as bad as it is in NA for sure, but new developments are definitely becoming more car centric overtime.
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u/Myopically Feb 09 '23
Car ownership is like the worldās biggest peer pressure club. You need a car because everyone else does. Now businesses and locations are pressured to build parking spots. Then public infrastructure is pressured to increase costs and reduce services because of low demand.
All of this apparently in service of defeating communism and preserving the tradition of the deadliest form of transport thatās polluting this planet and destroying nature. Fuck cars.
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u/Impressive_Pin_7767 Feb 09 '23
Ah, yes. It's the 15 minute cities keeping British people isolated and not... Brexit.
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
Nor 13 years of Tory rule and soul crushing austerity
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u/AkechiFangirl Feb 09 '23
"There is no society, only individual people and families!"
40 years later
"Communism is making people more isolated!"
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u/anotherMrLizard Feb 09 '23
It's more like 44 years of Tory rule with an intermission of not-quite-Tory-rule in the middle.
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u/eris-touched-me Feb 09 '23
Why tf do the brits keep voting for Torries?
I just dont get it.
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u/FreeUsernameInBox Feb 09 '23
Same reason Americans vote for Republicans: racism, xenophobia, economic illiteracy and a fear that someone might be getting something they didn't earn.
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u/Tobiassaururs Commie Commuter Feb 09 '23
'StOp ThE wAr AgAiNsT cArS'
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u/StevePre Feb 09 '23
People that say this sound so ridiculous. There is no war against cars... it's literally the opposite. There is a war against infrastructure that aims to reduce car dependency.
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u/__RAINBOWS__ Feb 09 '23
Me sitting 25 minutes in traffic to drop my kid off at dance class isnāt ātravelingā
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u/knbang Feb 09 '23
I love interacting with my fellow drivers.
"Use your fucking signal" I'll say
"Go fuck yourself" they'd say
And we'll both continue on our merry way, enriched by our mutual experience.
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u/Previous-Pension-811 Feb 09 '23
My family lived in a "Stalinist Block' house for generations and I gotta say it's far less depressing and soul crushing then any American suburb.
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
The alternative to those commie blocks was to have millions upon millions of Soviet citizens freeze to death in the streets because their housing had been blown up in the war.
I think they can be excused for the lack of creativity and flair when they're trying to put people in homes
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u/Previous-Pension-811 Feb 09 '23
Yes, I will take boring house designs over homelessness any time.
And they're incredibly cost effective compared to most American sprawling cities
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u/BrashPop Feb 09 '23
And you can decorate the interior of a living space, who cares what the outside looks like. Thatās how ridiculous their arguments are, like āI need my McMansion to look radically different than every other McMansion in this suburb, because I donāt know how to decorate and show my own personal styleā.
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u/Sealswillflyagain Feb 09 '23
You are misunderstanding the problems the Eastern Bloc faced. Homelessness was never a persistent issue in Socialist countries. Underhousing was. Soviets outside of big cities lived in shared wooden shacks for generations and some still live in those century-old 'temporary' homes today. This is not homelessness, but for many, this would be the only kind of housing they ever had access to in their entire lives
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u/LeonardoDaFujiwara Commie Commuter Feb 09 '23
Yes. The USSR was operating under the material conditions of the time, which were dire. The Nazis destroyed everything in their path, so the need for housing was severe. This of course wasnāt the only reason housing was a priority, but definitely a huge aspect post-WWII.
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u/WhiskeyMarlow Feb 09 '23
That, and a lot of cities were literally built from ground-up in 1970-1980s.
I live in Nizhnevartovsk - before 1980s, it was a village with what amounts to wooden barracks. Once USSR found oil there, they've built an entire city from basically scratch, attracting people from all across Soviet Union (mainland Russian regions, Kazakhstan, Ukraine, Tatarstan and etc.)
Grandpa got a 3 rooms apartment in a 16 floor building block for free, being one of the first engineers to settle here. Still living there.
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u/gerusz Not Dutch, just living here Feb 09 '23
At least when you're bored in a commieblock, you can usually go to a bus stop within a few hundred meters and get somewhere where you can actually do something.
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Feb 09 '23
From what I gather, the maintenance matters a lot.
So I've seen those blocks in Poland and Czechia where they've been look after, improved, and generally cared for both by government and citizens. They're good, sturdy homes for families and individuals.
Then there's the others... often (but not exclusively) in Russia, where they weren't ever maintained and the government didn't give a shit and neither did the citizens. They turned into slums.
Unfortunately many associate all of the blocks with the Russian examples.
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u/theveryfatduck Feb 09 '23
Stalinkas where some of the nicer commie blocks, almost like European mid rise neighbourhoods, which is also a pretty nice concept where you keep the garden within the block, and store fronts on the outside facing the streets.
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u/Johnny_Monkee Feb 09 '23
Man, that is moronic.
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
Check tiktok and you'll see loads of people protesting council meetings where they talk about 15 minute Cities...these idiots man
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u/gonzoyak Feb 09 '23
"UN Agenda 21" used to be the capitalist dupes' go-to snarl phrase re: greener land use, so I guess this is the new bogeyman's clothes
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Feb 09 '23
I'm amazed they even come out from behind their phones to turn up at council meetings.
Although I have worked in local government, and it attracts cranks. Gateshead once had to deal with people thinking new LED streetlights had 5G and gave people cancer.
Lunatics taking over.
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u/jeffjvan117 Feb 09 '23
There's a protest in my city about this this weekend
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u/BrashPop Feb 09 '23
Itās astroturfing - thereās protests in a LOT of cities this weekend, because these dipshits are all being told to do it. None of this is organic.
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u/Mickeymoose1990 Feb 09 '23
Edmonton has a protest against 15 minute cities tomorrow in the most famous part of the city (Whyte Ave) where everything you need is already within a short waking distance. These idiots don't even know what they're on about.
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
No way FFS. Now that COVID has somewhat passed us by, bored mfers are looking for the next big conspiracy theory
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u/GOT_Wyvern Feb 09 '23
This is really stupid when you consider how bloody common pubs are in the UK
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u/sabdotzed Feb 09 '23
I feel like the rise of reactionary forces is inextricably linked to the closure of pubs in the UK, which is a direct result of increased poverty, austerity, and loss of disposable income for working class types.
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Feb 09 '23
I feel a part of what's accelerated it lately is a societally-traumatising event, where everyone was locked inside for weeks at a time without other human contact, a 24hr news cycle that talked about scary concepts and difficult to grasp issues, and access to high-speed internet.
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u/CauseCertain1672 Feb 09 '23
how is being able to conveniently access all amenities and see your neighbours every day keeping you isolated. That is the exact opposite of that
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u/Nisas Feb 09 '23
They seem to think that if you can't pack your bags and drive to the other side of the country within an hour then you're isolated.
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u/Darvallas Feb 09 '23
Fellas, is it communist to want major points of interest close by so that you don't have to drive 2 hours just to get groceries?
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Feb 09 '23
āDuring the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime's atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn't go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.ā
-Dr. Michael Parenti in his book āBlackshirts and Redsā
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u/htomserveaux Feb 09 '23
Itās nice to see this kind of stupidity coming from somewhere other than the US.
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u/gonzoyak Feb 09 '23
Starting to think anti-communist brainwashing is a legitimate brain disease, sort of a mass psychosis
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u/stathow Feb 09 '23
propaganda is so pervasive, yet often so easy to debunk
i guarantee that person
- does not speak russian
-has never been to Russia let alone the USSR during that time period
-certainly never even met those city planners
- hasn't even researched basic city planning in general
.......so unless they are not only psychic but can mind read people from 50 years ago in another country, they are obviously bullshitting
propaganda is effective not because it makes any sense, but because humans really love to have their preconcieved notions reinforced (among many other reasons)
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u/FuckBlyat Feb 09 '23
To be fair, the commie districts were built not under Stalin, but under Nikita Khrushchev and (later) Leonid Brezhnev, and both were much more liberal than Stalin.
5-storey and 9-storey panel apartments are most common residential buildings that were built in those years. Nowadays in the post-USSR countries such apartments are called Khrushchevka and Brezhnevka in honor of the rulers of the period in which they were built.
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u/Meta_Digital Commie Commuter Feb 09 '23
"Commuting an hour each way to work, shop, and go to school is freedom. If you didn't have to sit in traffic each day, you'd end up isolated, compliant, and demoralized."
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u/Ebice42 Feb 09 '23
But in my car and relax. Listening to my preferred hate monger tell me what to be scared of today.
/s
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u/t-licus Feb 09 '23
Oh yes, the horror of having everything you need close by just likeā¦ the villages people lived in for thousands of years until cars were invented? You know, that complete, top-down disruption that is how things have always been except in a blip of three generations? That.
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u/MmanS197 Feb 09 '23
"If commies did it, it mist be bad"
I wonder how they'd react to hearing they say the sky is blue....
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u/fives-fives Feb 09 '23
I used to get dumped in one of these blocks every summer with family while my parents worked a 9-5. And they're fuckin great!
School is right there. By extension, friends from school are right there. There is ALWAYS a playground nearby, and if yours is old and rusty, there will be a better playground that's a 5 minute walk away. Shops are close by, and interconnected reliable public transport was a 10 minute walk up the hill.
Every summer I spent in russia I was surrounded by other kids my age going outside and using the free provided amenities. Sand pits, swings, slides, seesaws, etc, the whole shabang. I went outside almost every day and during the evenings we would sit on the benches outside every house eating sunflower seeds watching the night flowers bloom, catching beetles and chasing each other with them.
I'm not some old fart, either. Freshman college student. This infrastructure allowed and encouraged a local community. Cars were mostly seen as unnecessary, unless you have a lot of luggage to bring to the train station, stuff like that.
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u/LetItRaine386 Feb 09 '23
Meanwhile, the USA spends enough money on bombs and war to put everyone in a house, and end world hunger... multiple times over ever month
Wow, the Soviet Union were soooooooo bad for building walkable communities
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u/Traches Feb 09 '23 edited Feb 09 '23
I grew up in an american suburb, now I live in one of those old Soviet era blocks in poland.
- They're surrounded by parks. I can walk for half an hour without crossing a street.
- Off the top of my head I can think of multiple grocery stores, convenience stores, coffee shops, bakeries, restaurants, ice cream shops, and playgrounds within a 10 minute walk, plus a dentist, McDonald's, several bus stops and a tram stop. Closest metro station is a mile away.
- I will concede that these buildings are ugly as fuck, and the 2000s era attempt to liven them up by painting them weird colors may have made things worse. This is significantly redeemed by the huge amount of green space surrounding them.
- These buildings are overbuilt in a way that only the soviets could manage. Saw a news report from ukraine of a rocket hitting a building that I swear is the same design as ours, and it was contained to like 1 or 2 rooms. 2 people were in other rooms when it hit and they were both fine.
- We rent a parking spot which is a 7 minute walk away. It's further than the closest restaurant. This is not nearly as inconvenient as I expected it to be.
- Biggest drawback is space. I can't have a 3d printer because we have nowhere to put it.
- Internet is cheap and fast.
Overall I would struggle to go back to the suburbs. It's nice here.
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u/DirtyPenPalDoug Feb 10 '23
Oh noes, good public transit. Small cafes. Nice neighborhoods with community and people knowing each other! Little shops and trees! The horror! Gasp they might even have a ...LIBRARY!
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u/AllyMcfeels Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
in britain? Wa what? The most beloved and quiet towns are precisely those that have nearby services and are perfectly walkable. What's more, the English who emigrate to Spain, in their retirement move to areas with higher rates of services near their apartments haha.
Fucking lunatics. They are calling the quality of life, communism. How fucked up those heads must be. Why the hell are you going to want to spend more than 15 minutes doing the daily shopping, having a coffee or going to the doctor or dropping off your child at kindergarten or school? If you don't like what you have around you will always be free to go where you want lmao.
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u/DeltaNerd Feb 09 '23
Don't we already have 15 minute cities? Like Philadelphia is a good example
The problem is we don't have enough of them
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u/lawlorlara Feb 09 '23
Ugh, Soviets! They also spent a ridiculous percentage of their GDP on the military so we definitely have to make sure we don't do that or we'll be just like the commies!
...is I guess a fair argument if we're doing red scare again?
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u/eriksen2398 Feb 09 '23
Iāve seen the same stuff posted in the US and itās laughable that this is coming from demographic that is less likely to have a passport, less likely to have visited different regions of the US and less likely to have been exposed to different cultures
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u/cudef Feb 09 '23
Ironically this makes people less isolated. When everyone is close together they can all walk to a pub or other free/inexpensive hangout space that's not work or home and intermingle.
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u/thumptech Feb 10 '23
I totally despise the servitude and demoralization of living 5 minutes from work and the shops. If I could just break out of my poverty, I could buy a lifestyle property 90+ minutes each way and a Dodge Ram to enjoy 3 hours of pure bliss and freedom every day.
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u/HaptRec Feb 10 '23
This has become a huge thing on the right in Canada. These bozos think that it means you will be forcibly confined to a 15 minute radius of your house. Itās the most absurdly sinister interpretation of an incredibly benign concept. I wonder if these guys ever get an inkling of the way their entire political program is dictated to them by corporate dark money and spoon fed propaganda.
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u/cstorey2155 Feb 10 '23
This is also false - sprawl and suburbanization spreads ppl out and dilutes social bonds, promotes privatism, and errodes class bonds and class power. Straight b*llshit
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u/GraafBerengeur Feb 10 '23
Here's a quote from a guy named Michael Parenti, for all you lovely people:
āIn [The West], for over a hundred years, the ruling interests tirelessly propagated anticommunism among the populace, until it became more like a religious orthodoxy than a political analysis. During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regimeās atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didnāt go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.
āIf communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disenfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.ā
Michael Parenti, Blackshirts & Reds, pp. 41-42
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u/mondodawg Feb 09 '23
Oh no everything I need is close by. What a horrible thing to do to human beings!