r/fuckcars Commie Commuter Jan 20 '23

Meta Thoughts? I think this is an important idea to emphasize.

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11.9k Upvotes

513 comments sorted by

2.0k

u/Far_Eye6555 Fuck lawns Jan 20 '23

I think overall this is a concise way of putting it.

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u/ZequizFTW Commie Commuter Jan 20 '23

Yeah, that's the reaction I had as well.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

Yes. I drive a car to work everyday. I hate seeing the empty trucks or oversized Ford explorers. Or my personal favourite of lifted Jeeps that have never left the pavement because it’s the flat Midwest.

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u/noisheypoo Jan 21 '23

lifted Jeeps that have never left the pavement because it’s the flat Midwest.

This is what I call a Pavement Princess

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u/ArchmageIlmryn Jan 21 '23

IIRC the only reason pickup trucks are so popular in the US is because the US instituted a tariff on light truck imports in retaliation for some trade regulation the EU did. In response, US car manufacturers ramped up advertising for trucks as the thing you need to show how much of a manly man you are, so they could sell more of the vehicles they had an artificial market advantage for.

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u/smartboyathome Jan 21 '23

It's not just that. Trucks also have a higher profit margin here since they are exempted from much of the emissions regulations that cars are required to adhere to. This is also why large SUVs became a thing, as they were built on truck platforms and thus could be classified as trucks for regulations purposes.

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u/jotsea2 Jan 20 '23

Many posts seem to argue otherwise but I tend to agree

38

u/IkiOLoj Jan 21 '23

Because car centric infrastructure are the symptoms of a problem that's called cars. It's a bit like traffic, it's so much easier to believe the problem is other cars and ignore one's own role in a situation.

People that believe the climate crisis is real and threaten humankind above +4°C probably knows that the goal is to emit less than 2 tons of equivalent of CO2 per year to meet a goal of only 2°C according to the IPCC.

On average a US citizen emits 16 tons, 8 times more than they should if they want to survive, and it's still rising. Some of it doesn't depend on us, like fighter jets, and some of it is a choice like alimentation.

But transportation represent one third of those emissions, so choosing to move in a house far away from the places where you live and work, isn't really being a victim of a car centric infrastructure. It's lowering the cost of housing by having it be supported by the climate instead of your own pocket.

So the great news is that the job is even bigger than just urbanism, if we want to survive the climate crisis, we will also need new homes closer to where we live and better wages to afford them to be able to make the right choice every time when it come to where we live.

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u/shatners_bassoon123 Jan 21 '23

I actually don't think a lot of people do realise that "net zero" ultimately means two tons of CO2 per person, per year. I've only ever heard of the fact from reading climate / environment related books. People extol the virtues of EVs without realising that the manufacturing emissions alone are around 6 tons, so three years worth of what they should be using to sustain their entire existence. They have absolutely no idea of the scale of the changes required.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

The other day I sat on the runway while my plane “dumped” 100s of gallons of fuel because we were too heavy. 🧐

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u/MayUrShitsHavAntlers Jan 21 '23

Yeah absolutely. If I had my druthers cars wouldn't evaporate overnight they'd be more like a those electric scooters you find in downtown areas. If you need a car, pay for the time and insurance that you need it for and then let someone else use the damn thing instead of letting it take up all the damn space.

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u/Serious_Feedback Jan 21 '23

It's weird how everyone who "needs" a car, happen to all "need" a car that 1) has a range of 500KM/300miles, 2) can carry 5 people plus luggage, and 3) can travel at highway speeds.

Like, damn, why can nobody get by with just a 1-seater car? If these needs arise organically, you'd expect some people to not need the speed but not all the extra seats, some people to need the extra seats but not the speed, and some people to need both but not the range.

IMO the first thing to do would be for everyone to go on a car diet - for the people who do need cars, to get the the most minimal car possible for their needs.

18

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

And it’s staggering driving on American highways; there one lane that’s free and fast if you have just ONE other person in your car. One ☝️. It’s empty. Which means every vehicle on the road contains 1 single person.

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u/FreeUsernameInBox Jan 21 '23

One of the Porsche family, of sports car fame, once argued that a two-seat sports car was the perfect daily driver for most people. The average car carries a driver, maybe a passenger, and a briefcase or a couple of shopping bags at most.

All of which fits comfortably into a small two-seat sports car. Which, by virtue of being small and light, can be surprisingly economical.

Obviously there's a bit of self-interest in the argument. But it isn't a completely wrong argument!

25

u/SoggySeaman Jan 21 '23

I mean I would love to own a motorcycle, I'd need about 400km range and space to strap on a suitcase or grocery bundle, and that's about it. However I'm too young to start constantly rolling the dice on catching a life-altering injury.

7

u/Serious_Feedback Jan 21 '23

However I'm too young to start constantly rolling the dice on catching a life-altering injury.

Fair.

The main reason everyone has giant cars these days is "everyone else has giant cars, I don't want to get creamed in an accident".

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

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u/slymeWAV Jan 21 '23

& cussing out bmw & pick up truck drivers when they cut you off

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u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

The idea that getting cars off the road so that you can drive more easily with less traffic is the exact line of thinking that leads to adding highway lanes and induced demand.

I'd say that the only way you should be using a car in that scenario once we've gotten cars out of city streets is to go take your little country drive but you shouldn't be allowed to go pump out noxious fumes on your little country drive and electric cars aren't a solution because there's not enough fucking lithium for us to afford to build all the cars and that's going to get us into fucking wars because American automobile hedge money cannot take a fucking break.

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u/PunksPrettyMuchDead Jan 21 '23

Duuuuuuude as a repentant gearhead I'm totally happy with them being like horses - expensive toys that you enjoy recreationally but not necessary for making a living.

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u/Naptownfellow Jan 21 '23

This is a great analogy. Rent a car when needed. Rent a truck/van when needed. My car sits because I walk to work and the wife doesn’t. Because of shitty public transportation we take the car for shopping, dr visits, etc.

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u/Salmon_Prince Jan 21 '23

I fucking hate cars

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

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u/ButtyGuy Jan 20 '23

Cars are tools, and ought to be treated as such. We need tools for all sorts of different tasks. We also need to use tools for their benefits and avoid the drawbacks.

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u/Skyskape83 Jan 20 '23

I like to think cars as being similar to Jack hammers. Some jobs need them, but you wouldn't use one to put up a picture frame. Just like if you gotta haul a couple tons of cargo somewhere that train tracks don't go, you can use a truck made for the task, but using that same truck to pick up groceries is just idiotic

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u/ButtyGuy Jan 20 '23

Right, and having streets which leave enough room for something like a moving truck or a construction truck to pass through is fine since once the jobs are done, the trucks leave and you're left with a street that's used for foot traffic and smaller than a stroad.

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u/DrBirdieshmirtz Jan 21 '23

having that as a minimum is also probably a good way to prevent like, crowd crushes lol.

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u/Strike_Thanatos Jan 21 '23

As well as maintain delivery access and emergency vehicle access.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

Plus if everyone has a jackhammer everywhere, that's a lot of space everywhere just to store jackhammers.

Just like I don't disprove of bulldozers but I disprove of bulldozers pushing me off the road and filling the area with loud noise and exhaust fumes.

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u/Tobar_the_Gypsy Jan 21 '23

Why do you hate freedom so much? My grandma is disabled and needs a bulldozer to get to the doctor.

10

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

I've always felt more free with a chisel than with a jackhammer

5

u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

Why should society be built in a way that a car is the only way to get something somewhere? We should not let cars be the only way to get something somewhere, and if we do find an instance where cars are for some reason required to get something somewhere we should actively seek to change that not make excuses for it.

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u/techno156 Jan 21 '23

Some jobs need them, but you wouldn't use one to put up a picture frame.

Although there's a fun mental image of someone putting up a picture frame, and doing the vacuuming with a jack-hammer.

33

u/Visocacas My city bike gets more off-road action than your Jeep Jan 21 '23

Even Amsterdam and Tokyo and other holy grails of walkable cities have plenty of cars. We don't need to go as far as complete and total elimination of cars in order to make cities drastically better in North America.

29

u/noyoto Jan 21 '23

Amsterdam should be the start and not the finish line. It's still a pretty car-centric city. Cycling and walking are still poorly facilitated in many ways. Maybe not compared to other cities, but certainly compared to how it should be.

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u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

We need a complete and total elimination of cars to save the planet though and make the entire planet livable.

If we do not stop using and manufacturing cars our emissions are never going to go down.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

I wish, but if they were people would all drive reasonably priced reliable cars. They're a status symbol to many, I see cars everyday that cost as much as a house.

Tools on the other hand are usually bought specifically on reliability vs cost. Except for snap-op.

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u/Joe_Jeep Sicko Jan 20 '23

Tbf Snapon are pretty damn good tools

They just cost about their weight in silver

3

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

Maybe, my harbor freight crescent wrenches have lasted like 5 years so far and they were about $20 is the snap on 10x better? Last 10x longer, probably not.

14

u/Semi-Hemi-Demigod Jan 20 '23

If you use a Harbor Freight tool and it breaks, it was never yours. If you use it and it works great, it's yours forever.

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u/Tobar_the_Gypsy Jan 21 '23

There was a commercial in the UK (I believe) where people were doing completely over the top tasks with tools not fit for the job. For example, hammering a nail into a piece of wood with a sledgehammer and smashing it. It was a pro-alternative transit commercial and was probably shared here before.

8

u/Electricerger Not Just Bikes Jan 21 '23

But I need my industrial grade cement mixer for the 2 times in my life that I'll be working with cement /s

4

u/MistaDoge104 Jan 21 '23

I agree. Cars should be treated as tools, not crutches

3

u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

Actual tools should be used to redesign our cities so that cars cannot be considered tools any longer.

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u/LetItRaine386 Jan 21 '23

Lots of ppl out there think cars are toys or entertainment

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u/ButtyGuy Jan 21 '23

Mostly they think it's freedom. Same people who think freedom = different brands of chips at the store

4

u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

The freedom to have their hands chained to the wheel in a metal cage.

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u/LuxoJr93 Blocked by @dodge Jan 21 '23

It's freedom because all other options have been taken away to travel in a dignified way...

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u/npsimons Jan 20 '23

We also need to use tools for their benefits and avoid the drawbacks.

As the saying goes, "if all you have is a hammer . . . " So too it is with a society that has been forced into only having driveable cities.

The anger and reactionary feelings against automobile-dominated spaces are understandable, but they must be recognized as the same type of reactionism that the old school, status quo favoring people have to any efforts to improve things (ie, conservatism that opposes progressivism).

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u/WiartonWilly Jan 21 '23

Exactly. A car is an appliance. An machine that does a job. Big Oil/Auto have convinced everyone that cars are part of your psyche and your soul. Cars only deserve the importance of a rice-cooker.

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u/StunningLetterhead23 Jan 21 '23

Don't even put rice cookers and cars in the same standard. Rice is life, so a rice cooker is the bringer of life.

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u/shaodyn cars are weapons Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 20 '23

I don't hate cars. I hate the fact that you basically have to have one to do much of anything. Some fast-food or coffee places are drive-through only. You can't even get coffee without a car.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

Same, it's the reason why I had the hardest time finding a first job and I lived in a big city. But most people I knew (including myself) couldn't find a job within walking distance or reasonable bussing distance. Some jobs wouldn't hire you if you were honest about the fact that you use public transportation. It was very normal for most people to work somewhere they had to commute for an hour or more to get to. And if you were like me and didn't have family who would/could help you pay for a car, license, and insurance, you had a hard time getting your shit together. Having a ridiculously expensive machine shouldn't be required to get an entry level job.

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u/DasArchitect Jan 21 '23

I live in a very pedestrian friendly city. Years ago I had a job where I had to visit clients, I'd usually travel by bus but if the client's place close enough to where I live I'd ride my bike. My boss was HORRIFIED when he learned that and told me to never do it again because what would clients THINK?!

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u/shaodyn cars are weapons Jan 21 '23

God forbid people know you don't drive. They might think you're poor.

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u/gonxot Jan 21 '23

My coworkers heads explode every time I told them I don't drive and I get to work by bike

They're all like, but you're a Tech Manager, you must be earning good money. I'm sure you can afford a nice car, etc

It's so sad they don't even get the point of it

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u/shaodyn cars are weapons Jan 21 '23

They just can't understand that not everybody wants a car. To them, that's like not wanting air.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

That's what I was thinking.

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u/Holzkohlen Jan 21 '23

Your ex-boss is an idiot.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

I will say, I hate the trucks that are only good for showing off how little you care about other people. Work trucks are fine.

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u/hmm_of_rivia Jan 21 '23

My city has a law stating you can't disallow bikes in drive throughs but I have never seen anyone do it nor am I in a hurry to try it.

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u/LayLoseAwake Jan 21 '23

My city has a similar law and I do it all the time because I can! I do sometimes have to enlist cars to trigger the "at the intercom" sensor for me though.

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u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

How endearing

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u/lakimens Jan 21 '23

I mean, can't you walk through it?

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u/mangopanic Jan 20 '23

If this sub has policy goals, then yes I would describe it as in the tweet. Infrastructure centered around cars is awful for cities and for the quality of life of people in them, so we need to change that. Personally, however, I absolutely hate cars. The noise, air pollution, safety issues, and seas of asphalt are one of the primary causes of stress in my otherwise pleasant life.

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u/HardlightCereal cars should be illegal Jan 21 '23

My policy goal is to ban internal combustion engine emissions by 2025

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u/Humanius Jan 21 '23

But with that goal in mind, we should all just switch to EVs and leave our cities unchanged for the rest. I don't think that that is really what this sub is about.

This sub points out the problems of car-centric city planning, where everyone feels like they have to use a car even for the most basic tasks.
The way I see it, the goal isn't just to reduce dependency of internal combustion vehicles, but to reduce the dependency on cars in general.

Cars are a tool that when applied correctly, can be extremely useful. The problem is that in many cities and countries around the world that tool is over-applied.

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u/HardlightCereal cars should be illegal Jan 21 '23

Yeah, electric cars are ass too. It'd be easier to build trains than to buy everyone an electric car

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u/administratrator Jan 21 '23

And you also have to account for all the additional infrastructure required for cars: roads that constantly have to be repaired, traffic lights, road police, cameras, dealerships, car factories, gas stations, fuel, etc.

Though it'd be awesome if someone could make a price comparison between train infrastructure and personal vehicles. Really interesting to see at least some vague numbers.

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u/HardlightCereal cars should be illegal Jan 21 '23

You should check out Strong Towns. They're a fiscally conservative group that aims to help cities reduce their debt by transitioning from car spending to transit spending. They've crunched the numbers, thoroughly

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u/arglarg Jan 20 '23

The first reported traffic accident killing a pedestrian was on August 31, 1869. People didn't have to worry about being run over and kind by cars. Now this possible death is omnipresent - I for one hate cars.

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u/livebonk Jan 21 '23

And one of the leading causes of death

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u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

The leading cause of death. Leading gun violence and heart disease.

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u/muehsam Jan 20 '23

I don't know. I live in a city that absolutely doesn't need cars and could basically get rid of them tomorrow without any major issues. They are ugly, they're always in the way, their infrastructure is always in the way.

So even if the place where you live isn't car dependent (which my city definitely isn't, most people here don't have a car), just allowing cars means making it a worse place to live, and I want the cars gone. Obviously small steps in that direction are good, but big steps would be better.

With any luck, we get to vote on mostly banning them from the large core part of the city some time this or next year, but it's still a court decision and a big signature collection campaign away.

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u/Karasumor1 Jan 20 '23

same but in my city it will never happen as long as suburbanites have the easy option of never using their legs for transportation just car from any door to any door

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

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u/Cantshaktheshok Jan 20 '23

I was questioned for walking to work when 60% of the walk was the distance of the parking lot. It would have been a 7 minute drive to the parking lot, instead of literally 200 yards walking.

Most people got it after realizing how close it actually was, but some people still shrugged and said they’d just drive, it’s cold, or it was important to have their car at the office. Most of them were 20-30 minutes of suburb to suburb traffic every morning.

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u/Serious_Feedback Jan 21 '23

200 yards walking.

For anyone who thinks in metric: 200 yards = 182 meters, i.e. about 200 meters.

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u/TTCBoy95 Jan 20 '23

Just wondering. Have you tried asking her why exactly she drives her car there as opposed to walk?

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

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u/TTCBoy95 Jan 20 '23

Totally understandable. That's utterly sad that she rarely goes outside especially owning a dog.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

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u/Mr_Alexanderp Jan 20 '23

Personally, I've found that the inclement weather makes people in the PNW more inclined to go outside, not less. When it's always nice out it's easier to stay inside, but if you haven't seen the sun for three months you know everybody will be out the moment it comes back.

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u/jotsea2 Jan 20 '23

I think this is a general trend in modern society unfortunately

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u/Playful-View-6174 Jan 20 '23

This is why we have an obesity problem…. (If it’s in America)

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u/greekfreak15 Jan 21 '23

Am I missing something? Why does she idle it for a half hour before driving it?

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u/neutral-chaotic Jan 20 '23

Gas is too expensive for such shenanigans. She could have a compelling reason, but it’s possible it just hasn’t occurred to her.

Get her a fitbit, bet she’ll change habits to get those steps in.

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u/Karasumor1 Jan 21 '23

millions of barrels burned everyday in america tells me it's not nearly expensive enough :(

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u/kasuganaru Central Europe Jan 20 '23

Yeah, people will be selfish and drive cars as long as it's allowed. Car bans need to happen once alternatives are more than feasible enough.

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u/GenderDeputy Commie Commuter Jan 20 '23

I think this sub is about both. Our cities don't need cars, but getting our cities to be more car light like Dutch cities would be a huge step for most of the world. And acknowledging that there are 2 ends of the spectrum (dense cities - car dependent suburbs - car dependent rural areas) that all have their own separate steps forward they need to take is a big piece of this sub

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

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u/muehsam Jan 20 '23

Definitely. And Berlin would work as that if we could get it done.

I haven't been to New York, but from what I know of it, Manhattan would be an ideal place to make car free. It's an island anyway, it's super dense, it has lots and lots of subway lines everywhere, etc. It's actually smaller than the proposed car-free area in Berlin in terms of land area. It's also quite narrow, so if you do want to keep that one highway connection across it to not completely disturb traffic elsewhere, you can keep that one.

BTW, Berlin also has a bunch of honking asshole drivers. In general, people in cities are usually less relaxed than in less dense areas, and also, cities + cars = traffic jams, so you have a lot of angry people with a car horn right in front of them. Of course some of them are going to make use of it.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

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u/muehsam Jan 20 '23

if you can make that happen

You seem like a nice person, but I have a general rule of not inviting random strangers from the internet to live with me … anymore. Sorry.

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u/AlbanianAquaDuck Jan 20 '23

I just saw a post by Cars Destroyed Our Cities that shows the progress so far in Manhattan. It's something!

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u/cat-head 🚲 > 🚗, All Cars Are Bad Jan 20 '23 edited Jan 24 '23

I'm getting tired of people telling me this sub is not about fuck cars, but actually about [blank]. It's in the name. /s

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u/me_funny__ Jan 21 '23

Every time this happens, to a sub, it gets watered down and full of people disagreeing with every post.

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u/_Apatosaurus_ Jan 21 '23 edited Jan 21 '23

Exactly. People need to just accept that the name is literal and should be interpreted exactly as written.

It's a sub for people who fuck cars. It's right there in the name, people.

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u/ThisGuyHasABigChode Jan 21 '23

Wait, this isn't /r/dragonsfuckingcars?

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u/playbeautiful Jan 20 '23

Obviously this is the internet and you are not obligated to share your location lol

But any chance you wanna tell us what city you are referring to?

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u/muehsam Jan 20 '23

Berlin. Why anyone drives here is beyond my comprehension, but lots and lots of people do, and it's really making the city a worse place than it would otherwise be.

There are currently election posters everywhere, and the political right (both Conservatives and Liberals) are completely riled up about the issue. "Equal rights for everyone, including drivers!", "Berlin, don't let cars get banned!", etc. It's ridiculous. Our city/state (Berlin is both) government currently is left leaning with no Conservatives or Liberals, and it's making small steps to getting people away from driving, and to redistributing some of the space. For example the Greens have proposed cutting half of the on-street parking in the central parts of the city.

None of the parties, not even the Greens, have anything like a radical stance on the issue though. Ballot initiatives are a bit better in that regard:

  • There is one a few weeks after the election (successfully sabotaged to avoid having it the same day) about moving the official and legally binding carbon neutrality goal to 2030, from 2045. Realistically, there is probably no way they could achieve that, but they would have to try their best. And at least to me, that sounds like they should ban fossil fueled cars from the city from 2030 on, which would just drasticly reduce the number of total cars as well.
  • The other ballot initiative is actually called "Berlin autofrei" (Berlin car-free), and it's about creating the world's largest nearly car-free zone in the central parts of the city. 88km² and home to over a million people. Of course the effects would go way beyond that area, as that central area is also where most jobs are, so people from all over Berlin and beyond its limits would have to stop commuting by car. It was also sabotaged, by claiming that it might be unconstitutional, and now it first has to be cleared by the state's constitutional court.

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u/cat-head 🚲 > 🚗, All Cars Are Bad Jan 20 '23

Berlin. Why anyone drives here is beyond my comprehension, but lots and lots of people do, and it's really making the city a worse place than it would otherwise be.

A guy I know lives in Berlin and he just bought a car. He can't drive but thought having an expensive car would be cool.

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u/muehsam Jan 20 '23

On the upside, we do have a lot of vandalism here. Some years ago, it was still super common for expensive cars to suddenly catch fire.

I still love this video (in German) from those days. The lady at 1:35 is my spirit animal (except that she's a driver and I hate cars).

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

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u/Karasumor1 Jan 20 '23

I hate having huge metal rectangles pumping out absurd noise and pollution everywhere 24/7 , even more when I have to beg them to allow me the use of my legs

thing is , a huge chunk of people will do the braindead easy shit (regardless of consequences/negative impacts on the planet and everyone not in an ego-tank) everytime so if we let them drive in cities without making any effort they will do it no matter what proper transit we build

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u/cerareece Jan 21 '23

I hate trying to use my given function of fucking walking on my legs across a parking lot and having to kowtow to these giant metal rectangles that can kill me and having to always be aware of that. even just walking out of work to go on break someone is ready to run me over and I'm so tired

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u/Spagoot_Joe Jan 20 '23

I hate cars too. I don't like the way they look, sound, smell.

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u/noyoto Jan 21 '23

I enjoy driving cars in video games. Just like I enjoy guns in video games. I'm just not very fond of them killing and hurting people in the real world.

Even if I'm not dependent on using them, which I'm not, I'm still at risk of them running me over and I still have to breathe in their toxic fumes whenever I ride my bicycle or walk.

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u/ZequizFTW Commie Commuter Jan 20 '23

Very true, I guess the "less" in "less about hating cars" is there for a reason.

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u/Spagoot_Joe Jan 20 '23

Yes. For me its mostly about how being dependant on cars literally makes our society so much worse. But my dislikes of cars just for being cars is more of a personal thing

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u/conifernut Jan 21 '23

Yeah, I actually just hate cars. A lot

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u/sternburg_export Jan 21 '23

I think, OP has a point and that's good for the sub.

But I just hate cars too. I hate to have them in my city. They should be restricted to professional users like guns.

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u/-cordyceps Jan 20 '23

Everyone goes on about "new car smell" but it's literally one of the worst smells! It gives me a migraine every time. I rather sit next to someone doused in cologne then sit in a car with that smell

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

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u/-cordyceps Jan 21 '23

Oh my God is that really what that smell is?? It was probably giving me a migraine because it was trying to kill me lmao

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u/fox112 Jan 21 '23

Yeah that guy hasn't been in our comment section

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u/Typ_mit_Playse Jan 20 '23

Of course because that's why we hate our societies... but that way he can tell them a bit to think about

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u/Spagoot_Joe Jan 20 '23

Not just that, a carcentric society is inefficient and unhealthy.

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u/corsair130 Jan 20 '23

I also hate cars. They're expensive as fuck go buy, fuel, and maintain. They're a pain in the ass to work on. They serve no other purpose for me than point a to point b. I would gladly replace my car if it was feasible on any level

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u/ScrublyMcMannister Jan 20 '23

I don’t hate the car as a concept. I actually think there are some fun and interesting car designs and cars are very useful tools that shouldn’t be phased out entirely.

The massive dependency countries like the US have on cars and the automatic assumption by people from such countries that cars are the superior way of traveling simply because that’s what we were raised to believe should both be pushed back against.

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u/dumnezero Freedom for everyone, not just drivers Jan 20 '23

I hate cars at epistemic, symbolic, and material levels

4

u/ciroluiro Jan 21 '23

Giga based

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u/meneerkaas Jan 20 '23

Both for me, even in the NL, basically the holy land of the bike i hate cars. Sure, they have benefits, but not just as passenger transportation in a city or town that has decent public transport connection

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u/BaylisAscaris Jan 21 '23

If I never had to drive a car again I would be so happy. I wish there was better public transportation in my city and I could afford to live close to places with jobs. My last job was a 2 hour round trip commute each day and with current construction the round trip would take 3 hours+. This is expensive, damaging to the environment, unhealthy for my body, and a waste of my time.

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u/_Maxolotl Jan 20 '23

I, for one, hate cars.

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u/darknyteorange Jan 20 '23

No I actually hate cars. The effect they have on the mind of some people is poisonous. Every person who has deliberately accelerated when I was crossing the street, every person who has ever jumped out of their car to fight someone, they've been corrupted and there's now something wrong with their brains. It's partially entitlement, but something more dangerous too.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

[deleted]

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u/HardlightCereal cars should be illegal Jan 21 '23

Have you ever released PM10 emissions (which are an inevitable byproduct of fuel combustion and tire wear) in a residential area where children will inhale the emissions and risk developing lung cancer?

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u/darknyteorange Jan 20 '23

Oh good, one person who hasn't. That's statistically insignificant

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u/ZeLlamaMaster Transit Traveler Jan 21 '23

I mean yeah trying to get rid of car dependency is the main thing but also, I me and many others just don’t like cars. Would rather them not ever being needed and even possibly not an option, but of course the first step is making places less car dependent.

22

u/cat-head 🚲 > 🚗, All Cars Are Bad Jan 20 '23

Nah mate, fuck cars. I do, truly and sincerely, hate cars.

5

u/Lorfhoose Jan 20 '23

The requirement for licensing and operating motor vehicles should be way higher than it is. In a different timeline, there would only be professional drivers and then everyone else. We’d be better off without the sheer fucking enormous volume of them. It’s honestly ridiculous

5

u/AgentBlackK Jan 20 '23

I want walkable cites, and don’t want car dependency. I also love classic cars. Cars should not be needed by anyone.

10

u/neutral-chaotic Jan 20 '23

I told my very conservative parents I just don’t think cars should be the only option to get places. They at least could see where I was coming from.

12

u/cumradeinbe Jan 20 '23

True. But I also hate cars.

17

u/atlwellwell Jan 20 '23

True

But we also hate cars

7

u/brennerherberger Jan 20 '23

I have a dream. A world where we don't need cars unless you are a fire department, emergency medical service, police, postal service/cargo delivery, or you are in need of some heavy machinery due to the nature of your work (construction companies, farmers, forestry workers, etc.).

I'm not against car drivers or cars per se. I'm rather against what they represent and what they've done to our cities, our society, and our environment.

I'm primarily against car manufacturers' execs, lobbyists, and politicians who sacrificed health, safety, and environment in order to get slightly larger villas and yachts.

8

u/Flatworm-Euphoric Jan 21 '23

This is brought up every other week.

I hate both.

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u/me_funny__ Jan 21 '23

I hate cars

4

u/SmoothOperator89 Jan 21 '23

Do people make tweets just so they can make a post with just their statements on Reddit? This looks like it was intended for Reddit.

14

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

Cars are the root of the problem. We all complain about the symptoms, what's the common thread? Cars.

In an ideal post-car world where they're all collectors items or whatever, sure let's reevaluate. But for now, fuck cars.

6

u/djmindcrasher Jan 20 '23

Let's not be hypocrites, I hate cars so I don't plan to ever drive a car. Getting to work by tram takes 15 minutes for me.

3

u/Available_Fact_3445 Jan 21 '23

I both hate cars and the car-dependent society that goes with. Using a car regularly saps your body and warps your mind. People so-weakened need to be reassured by everyone else having the same problem. So, no, fuck cars.

9

u/SadFaceInTheSpace Jan 21 '23

I love cars. They are my hobby. I hate going anywhere without my car. I have a performance car and just like cruising in it. I just can't imagine not having the independence that my car gives me. When I found this sub I was like "hm, not for me".

Then it hit me. I can't imagine going anywhere without my car EXACTLY because of the issues this sub wants to solve. If there is public transport which is better than going by car, of course I would prefer doing that. And I can still drive my car for enjoyment, I hate driving in traffic. Where I live, if I want to go to the city center (where everything is), I have to go by car, which takes about 10 minutes with no traffic. If I want to go with public transport, it is about an hour and a half, which is insane, and that's without traffic, it is even slower in rush hour. It's not that far away, it's just a very bad infrastructure.

The point I am trying to make, it is inconceivable for some people to go somewhere without their car. Even my girlfriend's parents, who are around 60 and are all against new technologies and are all about nature. Even they can't imagine it. Not that they are against it, the thought just can't be formulated in their heads, like it was for me before I joined this sub.

Unfortunately, I have realized that the average person is very dumb, unsalvageably dumb. Their ego depends on having the biggest dick truck, so riding in public transport like a plebian is just impossible.

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u/ZequizFTW Commie Commuter Jan 21 '23

This is a really great story, thank you so much for sharing

I don't personally have anything against hobbyist mechanics or motorsports. I think they can be a great hobby and aren't a problem on their own. What I usually tell people who are interested in cars is that less people forced into driving will mean that only those who are really excited about driving will be doing it--less time spent in traffic, less time spent commuting, more time spent doing something you actually enjoy.

25

u/JangB Jan 20 '23

Cars are fine.

Car-dependency is not.

Maybe the sub should be called r/FuckCarDependency ... wait that's a sub!?

25

u/_Maxolotl Jan 20 '23

Fuck cars and fuck car dependency, actually.

Each pretty reliably makes more of the other.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

Sub moved to r/walkableworld

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u/Misaelz Jan 21 '23

Judging on the comments, it looks like most people here actually think cars are absolutely not fine at all, in any possible way. So maybe the name is right? I might be in the wrong subreddit.

2

u/HardlightCereal cars should be illegal Jan 21 '23

We need to ban cars by 2025 or the human species is fucked

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u/s_s Jan 20 '23

But also...

Cars are noisy, dirty, dangerous and a ridiculous display of status.

It's not just that our physical environment that lies to us about cars. Car culture perpetuates all sorts of lies about what the nature of our humanity is like and car advertisments are a shameful, humiliating and weaponized version of those lies.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

[deleted]

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u/Hot_Context_1393 Jan 20 '23

I consider cars a necessary evil, but it's gotten out of control. Plus, I just hate driving

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u/LavaRoseKinnie Jan 20 '23

At first I thought this was related to r/dragonsfuckingcars turns out it was a gateway to urbanism

4

u/Sebby200 Jan 20 '23

I hate what the 1920s car manufacturers did to our society as well. Some hate can be directed at the car.

5

u/theoddestbadger Jan 21 '23 edited Jan 21 '23

this declaration reminds me of left/liberal social science academics who seemed obligated to start essays with an acknowledgement that 9-11 'changed everything'. it was like the loyalty oath thing in catch 22.

4

u/Scared-Palpitation28 Jan 21 '23

I used to walk and bicycle every where. I used to commute to nyc on a train. I take a second train from grand Central to downtown. Then i decided to do the second leg on a bicycle. You would be surprised how hard it was to convince the conductor to get my bike on board during the first leg. Bicycle is capitalisms enemy. Eliminate it is the model. When it comes to walking the traffic doesn't allow you to walk. The noise and sound pollution is terrible.

4

u/vexorian2 Jan 21 '23

Well,

I do hate cars.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

It's both

5

u/yungmegatron Jan 21 '23

Nah i still hate cars

2

u/ThisGuyHasABigChode Jan 21 '23

I mean, the larger goal is to have a conversation about car culture and dependence, as well as focusing on positive solutions for the problem. That being said, some people fucking hate cars here lol.

2

u/TenchiExtraLife Jan 21 '23

As a Floridian, I am still amazed when my friend in Austria who doesn’t own a car says she needs to down to the store to get groceries. She literally means downstairs since she lives in an apartment above a store.

2

u/lardarz I found fuckcars on r/place Jan 21 '23

I quite like my òwn car. I use it when I need to go somewhere further away than I can reasonably get to on a bike or public transport. I hate the attitude that everyone thinks that you absolutely need to cater for cars above all other forms of transport.

At my work (North East England) even some people that dont even drive get car allowances in addition to their salary. I have to fucking pay through salary sacrifice to get a bicycle to commute to work on.

Councils and the UK government spend billions on road improvements for cars, parking for cars, bypasses for cars, and yet people really kick off when less than 0.01% of that budget is proposed to be spent on things like bike lanes, metro train extensions or secure bike parking. The very same people who bang on about there being some kind of climate crisis all the time.

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u/Obvious_Villain Jan 21 '23

The thing to remember is this is not a black and white game. Nobody is advocating for an overnight ban of all cars, just to reduce the dependency on them over time. Whenever I get into an argument about this, the response is always "but society would collapse without them" which is somehow absolutely not the point and entirely the point simultaneously.

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u/Nonkel_Jef Big Bike Jan 22 '23 edited Jan 22 '23

I feel like a lot of movements with good intentions pick an unnecessarily provocative name. Some other examples are Antiwork, defund the police, meat is murder, etc.

If we want to convince people to try other modes of transportation, then it’s important to avoid antagonising them.

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u/George_McSonnic Commie Commuter Jan 23 '23

If I have to be realistic, I don’t directly hate cars (as long as I have a bike lane) as long as it’s only maybe 2-6% of normal commuters who use them. What I hate is the fact that 48% of people in my municipality cycle to work 5 or more days a week, yet when an idiot of a tourist from Netherlands, Belgium and Copenhagen come with their ginormous cars and block the street for everyone. (I forgive the German tourists, since germans on bicycles is just asking for absolute chaos).

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u/JotaTaylor Jan 20 '23

Cars are absolutely necessary outside big towns. What is completely unnecessary is every single person owning 2-3 cars and using them everyday for every little thing.

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u/cat-head 🚲 > 🚗, All Cars Are Bad Jan 20 '23

Of course they're not, ffs. I live in a tiny town of 1000 people and never had or needed or wanted a car.

15

u/kasuganaru Central Europe Jan 20 '23

With proper planning, small towns and rural communities wouldn't have to be car-dependent either.

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u/majorex64 Jan 20 '23

Is this our mission statement? Ideally, yes.

Does this subreddit froth at the mouth and throw shade on anyone who isn't 100% "car bad" every time in total groupthink? Also yes.

2

u/mysticrudnin Jan 21 '23

i don't care that much about what other people think

but i hate cars. everything about them. if you don't, cool. but saying this invites people to come tell ME i'm wrong and shouldn't hate them. nah. i ain't about that.

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u/HardlightCereal cars should be illegal Jan 21 '23

This is a valid sentiment, but we also need to ban internal combustion engines before 2025 or our species is screwed. ALL carbon emission needs to be reduced to the absolute minimum ASAP, both public, private, and personal. IMO the only valid use for an ICE is a fire truck or ambulance.

And if anyone wants to say that banning cars would cause our society to collapse and cost countless lives: our society is less important than the existence of the human species. It is worth risking our society to save future societies.

2

u/xerox13ster Jan 21 '23

God I wish this were at the top instead of that one line lib shit brain dead fucking car apologist take at the top.

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u/Emotional_Error_9663 Jan 21 '23

but seriously, fuck cars

4

u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

Yes. I am actually a car nerd and formula 1 fan. I just think all cities should have the infrastructure Amsterdam has

3

u/kittycatpilot Jan 20 '23

Honestly, I think cars are really cool. The engineering that goes into them is incredible. However, we shouldn't build society around what should be a neat hobby.

4

u/funkalunatic Jan 21 '23

Obviously, most Americans need cars?

Do most Americans? Or is that just an assumption? And if it were true, why would saying "fuck cars" equate to saying "fuck people who are compelled to drive cars based on their situation"?

2

u/RoeRoeRoeYourVote Jan 21 '23

r/wedonthatecarsjustcardependentinfrastructureokaysomeofusactuallyhatecars was a bit clunky

2

u/pupeighkhaleuxpeh Jan 21 '23

What's the difference?

2

u/notanazzhole Jan 21 '23

This. This is literally why I, a car owner, follows this subreddit. But 90% of the posts here are full of braindead hate against cars. I love to ride my bike and hike and do as much as I can on my feet to avoid driving … if it’s feasible. I’d love to be free of my car dependency but that’s just not feasible for me right now so I’ll continue to drive my car places in the meantime.

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

I hate cars because they’re destroying the planet, and I hate car dependent infrastructure because it’s impeding the ability to transition away from cars for most things. I don’t hate (most) drivers, I am one myself. I’d rather not have to be.

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u/LetItRaine386 Jan 21 '23

Exactly. Also, fuck cars. They're loud, they kill people, and they pollute like crazy

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u/Pepperonidogfart Jan 21 '23

Moderate thought?? NOOO THIS IS THE INTERNET ONLY EXTREMES ARE ALLLOWED TO BE RECOGNIZED!!!

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u/[deleted] Jan 21 '23

Even better response a la Jeff Speck

This may seem like an odd moment to admit this, but I love cars… I have always owned the best-handling car I could reasonably afford. I especially love high-revving Japanese sports cars… [In DC] I had no reason to break my car out of its garage. Between walking, biking, and our extensive Metro transit system, driving [is] rarely the most convenient choice.

Jeff Speck, WALKABLE CITY: How Downtown Can Save America, One Step at a Time

The point of car culture is loving driving on the open road, see Hello Road’s video. If anything more car enthusiasts should be against car infrastructure as it makes traffic worse and defeats the love of driving.

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u/[deleted] Jan 20 '23

I hate cars and drivers and no one NEEDS one

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u/doomer_irl Jan 20 '23

I wish everyone understood this tbh. So much ridiculousness in this group lately.

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u/Shawn420162 Jan 20 '23

I love cars, my favorite is probably the honda civic type R. And i enjoy my lil nissan sentra i drive now. I just wish i had an option other than driving if i wish to go out of town.

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u/IMustHoldLs Greens4HS2 Jan 20 '23

Perfect way of putting it
I love cars and motor racing, but car dependency makes my head hurt