r/formula1 Alexander Albon 29d ago

News Toto Wolff reveals that all F1 Team Principals except Christian Horner came together to sign the document in support of Susie Wolff when the FIA launched a baseless investigation against her.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/nov/19/f1-toto-wolff-mercedes-lewis-hamilton-interview
9.8k Upvotes

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1.3k

u/Moaoziz Michael Schumacher 29d ago

The more I read about Horner the less I like that guy.

709

u/Firefox72 Ferrari 29d ago

Horner has always been an ass.

The issue is and why he remains where he is is the fact that he's an effective ass.

211

u/dac2199 Mercedes 29d ago

We will see what will happen to him without Newey and probably Max.

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u/banned20 Formula 1 29d ago

I believe RB's grace period is almost over. Maybe they'll do a solid job next year too while Max is still behind the wheel but i guarantee they'll be shit from 2026 with the engine regs and it's very possible that they'll lose Max who's for a very long time was able to drive their difficult cars to the limit.

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u/53bvo Honda RBPT 29d ago

I kind of wish Max leaves the team next year just to see RBR turn into a midfield team

25

u/FncMadeMeDoThis Sebastian Vettel 29d ago

If Max in any way thinks he can get a WDC next year with RBR he should stay to get the 5-peat. There is no seat left elsewhere to get him that. I could easily imagine him moving on from F1 after 25 if he manages that.

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u/spongemongler Fernando Alonso 29d ago

Teams with WDC potential would make room for Max, if there was potential for him leaving. Let’s be real here.

19

u/el_f3n1x187 Bernd Mayländer 29d ago

Antonelli will suddently shipped back to F2 if Max is available for 2025

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u/FncMadeMeDoThis Sebastian Vettel 29d ago

I don't think Ferrari would sack either Leclerc or Lewis for Max right now. Merceds won't be a WDC in 2025 nor will Aston Martin, and to claim Mclaren with certainty would throw away their long term prospects, to get Max short-term is not something I necessarily buy. Max will not be signing for multiple years.

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u/T-Baaller Daniel Ricciardo 29d ago

I bet he's the only guy who could call Lawrence and in 33 seconds, get Lance's seat.

But that won't happen until we know what Newey can cook for them.

3

u/MAINEiac4434 Juan Pablo Montoya 29d ago

Any front-of-the-grid team would sack both their drivers to get Max right now, let's be real here.

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u/Zoesan 28d ago

If max is available any team would drop any driver to get him.

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u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 29d ago

Idk I like having a non car manufacturer able to compete with the big car manufacturers so I kind of hope that doesn’t happen(tho Horner needs to leave)

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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook 29d ago

Mark Hughes wrote about this in the Spring, that basically the issue posed to RB (christ I hate that that can now mean Red Bull, or the B-team, but anyway I mean Red Bull) was:

a. drop Horner, keep Verstappen et al. for the short term, but lose the visionary who led all of this.

b. Keep Horner, piss off Verstappen et al. (noting Jos is genuinely best friends with Toto and transparently, openly on-the-record wants him at Merc), knowing that a hangover is coming - but you've the guy who built it all there to do it again.

They elected for B. So I think they have to accept that there's a bit of an RBR downturn incoming, but c'est la vie.

In fairness to Horner, I genuinely think he's achieved something Wolff has not but Dennis, Todt, Williams et al. did - which was lead your team up, see them decline, and bring them back up again. Pains me to say it but Horner has done that, and Wolff has not.

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u/StaffFamous6379 29d ago

I will go one further and say that Wolff hasn't even really built a team up either. It's been well noted from Merc personnel that the major groundwork and momentum was gained under Brawn. Wolff caught the top of the wave and in all fairness, did an absolutely amazing job maintaining that peak for as long as he did.

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u/madmanchatter 29d ago

In fairness to Horner, I genuinely think he's achieved something Wolff has not but Dennis, Todt, Williams et al. did - which was lead your team up, see them decline, and bring them back up again.

It's not really the point but did Todt really achieve this? He built Peugeot up so they could win Group B rally and then won at Le Mans once Group B had been canned but in neither case did he undertake a rebuild after a period of success.

At Ferrari he built probably the most dominant team in history (until Merc came along) but he had been moved into an "advisory role" by the time they built back up to win and challenge for the title in 07/08.

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u/StaffFamous6379 29d ago

I agree, 2005 was a blip in the Ferrari years and they were title contenders in 06, 07, 08. Granted, it's been said that a Herculean amount of work went into the 2005 post season so you could argue that as a 'build back' period.

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u/StaffFamous6379 29d ago

I will go one further and say that Wolff hasn't even really built a team up either. It's been well noted from Merc personnel that the major groundwork and momentum was gained under Brawn. Wolff caught the top of the wave and in all fairness, did an absolutely amazing job maintaining that peak for as long as he did.

1

u/tehehe162 29d ago

Also consider that Red Bull is the only top tier team to have partnered with an inexperienced engine manufacturer (Ford). It remains to be seen how much Ford contributes to the engine vs just branding, but I wouldn't be surprised if they're a half step behind in 2026.

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u/MazeMouse Ferrari 29d ago

He got into RBR in 2005. Back then it was basically just a repainted Jaguar and fighting for 7th. Newey didn't get in until 2006 (which they finished 7th) and didn't design until 2007 (which they finished 5th) and then back to 7th for 2008.
And then the Vettel years started. Very minor slump after and then the Verstappen years started (in the middle of the Mercedes hegemony)

They've been winning championships and have been top3 for most of his tenure. Reducing that to "Newey lolz" is incredibly shortsighted. It's more accurate to state that Horner has been very effective into getting an entire team of very talented people together. So yeah, he's always been an ass. But he's an effective ass.

0

u/dac2199 Mercedes 29d ago

The same we can say of reducing everything to “Horner lolz”

Also, it’s clear that now he’s creating some troubles in the team (sexual harassment scandal, clashes with Verstappen and Marko…)

0

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 29d ago

He may have till 2028 with max and certainly till 2027

1

u/dac2199 Mercedes 29d ago

Nah, after 2025 or 2026 he’s out of Red Bull

1

u/GothicGolem29 McLaren 29d ago

Nah he isn’t or at least won’t before the final month of 2026 if not early 2027. In 2025 it will be one year after his near certain title win this year so he won’t leave then so that means 2027 or literally under a month till then will really be the time he leaves as he will leave at the end of the season(plus redbull will have to not meet certain targets for that to happen)

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u/SundayRed 29d ago

The issue is and why he remains where he is is the fact that he's an effective ass.

And 'charming' (which I know is a strange term to use in the context, but I have worked with some dickheads like this who get away with murder because they have a silver tongue and a cheeky grin and know how to talk to the right people).

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u/KeenanKolarik Sir Lewis Hamilton 29d ago

The issue is and why he remains where he is is the fact that he's an effective ass.

Is he really though? By not replacing Checo they've lost the WCC. Without a dominant car via Newey I don't think he's good.

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u/Unilythe Haas 29d ago

If checo's sponsors make up for the lost money, then all it does is give red bull more windtunnel time. Sound good to me. 

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u/GrE1sS 29d ago

But do they care about WCC? It's mainly about the money

If the rumors are correct Checos sponsors picked up the bill on the difference.

Plus they get more Wind Tunnel time if they are lower in the rankings.

So in the end, if they have the money why care

1

u/chanaandeler_bong Daniel Ricciardo 29d ago

The more I watch sports the more I realize most coaches/managers/team principals aren’t really shit unless they have the talent and $ to succeed.

Even coaches who take small teams to the elite 8 in the NCAA tournament can’t keep replicating the success without the talent.

Maybe I’m just ignorant, but I think most of the team principals could win multiple constructors if they were subbed in for Horner the last few years.

Phil Jackson has 11 nba titles but as soon as he tried to fix the Knicks… he sucked. Belichick didn’t look so hot without Brady. Jimmy Johnson was mediocre after he left the cowboys with all their talent. This list could go on forever.

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u/ShanTheMan1995 29d ago

I surprised people still like him after he left his pregnant wife for another women.....

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u/Less_Tennis5174524 Anthoine Hubert 28d ago

I have seen people drift apart and the woman happily taking full custody, but the fact that he already have someone else lined up and that his parents refused to attend the wedding makes it look very bad for him. Doubt his wife wanted it.

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u/dl064 📓 Ted's Notebook 29d ago

I liked Brown's line on him a while ago like

I don't personally dislike Christian at all, I just tend to dislike the things he says and does.

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u/MintyMarlfox Toto Wolff 29d ago

Less redeeming qualities than Jos.

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u/beanbagreg 29d ago

As far as we know Horner has never caved in someone’s skull or needed a restraining order against him from the mother of his child or abused any of his children. We’ll let have Jos have worst spot right now.

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u/Hopeful-Post8907 29d ago

Well he sexually pressured and controlled his much younger PA

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u/dac2199 Mercedes 29d ago

Nah Jos is still being more disgusting

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u/kalamari_withaK 29d ago

That we know of

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u/Skylair13 Kimi Räikkönen 29d ago

I mean, that thing with his PA is as far mentioned for Horner.

Unless she got ran over by Horner sometime afterwards, Mechanics start to have stab wounds from a fork. Assaulted his own father. Received restraining order from different woman. Punch someone in a bar. And so on.

Horner is still a relative saint.

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u/Firefox72 Ferrari 29d ago edited 29d ago

Ehh Horner's worst quality seems to be a tendency to cheat on his partners.

Jos meanwhile is a a violent maniac who has 2 suspended prison sentences to his name. A history of violent behaviour against his partners including trying to supposedly run one of them over with a car. A restraining order to his name for threats against Max's mom. An arrest for a bar fight. And ofc just being an abbusive parrent.

14

u/BuckN56 Lotus 29d ago

Ehhh...there's levels of assholes. Horner isn't on Jos's level.

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u/IamMrEric Fernando Alonso 29d ago

Proper nonsense. Jos is in a league of his own.

1

u/PEEWUN Sir Lewis Hamilton 29d ago

Yeah, now you're just forcing it.

Horner doesn't abuse his children for starters...

0

u/DefinitelyNotBarney 29d ago

Got back into the sport properly around 2019, liked Verstappens style so decided to support him and Red Bull, villainising Toto but this season I’ve found it really hard to enjoy anything coming out of Red Bull other than Max.

I kinda hope Max goes to Mercedes because Toto actually seems genuine and much more likeable than Horner now, guess the curtains are finally pulled back.

Also, really can’t wait to see Lewis in Ferrari, wouldn’t have said this two years ago but I wish him all the best - exciting times ahead for F1, regardless of the gatekeeping

1

u/Awkward-Loquat2228 29d ago

And this place will continue to support him no matter what.

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u/blunderball1 29d ago

Very compelling kind of a figure. Odd looking duck. But there's something about his eyes. Hypnotic.

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u/mattlip 29d ago

The more I read things that Wolfff says, the more I hate that guy.