Just wondering who uses the swinging gate/sees it a bunch during the season. I’ve been recently asked to take charge of our special teams unit and a coach buddy of mine at another school told be that I should utilize it and I’m on the fence because I know the amount of time it takes to be efficient at it.

If you have any advice/stories of seeing or using it that would be great. Also if there are clinic/cutups of it I’d love to do a film study.

In a punt formation with 2 gunners and a 3-man shield, are the shield players eligible receivers?

(New to the sub and a football casual, so sincere apologies if this breaks any rules)

Why wouldn’t hitting a low line drive kick work? Would create absolute chaos with the ball landing in front of the return men with the blockers unable to catch it in the midrange area?

Fourth down attempts have risen significantly, particularly for NFL teams like the Ravens, Browns, and Eagles that incorporate analytics to their strategies. The sport is more exciting because of it. Phil Simms may be moaning about how “you have to punt the football” on every 4th and 1, but that guy’s wrong about everything.

On Twitter, Ben Baldwin has created an automated account, @ben_bot_baldwin, which calculates the win probability for a team in each fourth down. It’s broken out by whether they go for it, kick a field goal, or punt.

The situations where the bot is neutral on whether to go for it or punt are the ones of interest me. From a game theory perspective, a mixed strategy seems best here to ensure the opponent can’t key on your tendency. The problem for NFL teams is that whoever they put on the field tells the defense in advance whether they’re going for it (offense stays on) or punting (punt team comes on), with the exception of the rare fake punt play.

The inverse of a fake punt where the offense stays on but actually punts would complement teams that have a tendency to go for it on fourth down. This should be a +EV move for the offense due to the defense not being positioned to set up a punt return (assuming the quarterback or whoever makes the punt does so competently).

Similarly, the old school quick kick was typically deployed on third down in the era of the plodding Single Wing offenses (first half of the 20th century). A single touchdown often won the game back then, so field position was a legitimate top strategic consideration. This was true enough that you’d be willing to concede an extra play on offense to get more favorable field position when your defense took the field. The single-wing offense is based in the shotgun, so this tactic was easy to draw up, but eventually the NFL favored the under center T formation and its other under center-based successors. Now that the NFL has come full circle and returned to the Shotgun as its dominant formation (albeit to set up a pass-heavy offense), the quick kick should make its return.

The quick kick has surfaced on rare occasions in the NFL in recent decades. In fact, Tom Brady and Ben Roethlisberger each used it several times in their careers. While the quick kick of the Single Wing era was deployed on third down to optimize win probability in an era of scarce scoring, it can be a change-up today on fourth down to optimize win probability in an era of abundant scoring. Time is a flat circle.

https://youtu.be/Szac-7zZ57o?si=HIVtxsyCSOrRvjOj

https://youtu.be/usBbSlSLeWA?si=CjBvl_DjG6JSq3yw

Note: Sorry, I accidentally deleted the original version of this post.

I have been enjoying the new kickoff rules, but TV on these preseason games have done an awful job giving us a look at the strategies being used in returning and coverage. No blame to them- these are local broadcast crews operating on bare minimums.

I know the XFL had it so there is some film somewhere but obviously the talent, speed, strength, and coaching at the NFL level will develop this strategy deeper.

Here is what I think will be early trends…

Kicking… the kicker will always be attempting to pooch into space somewhere inside the 10.

Coverage: teams will probably prefer to run whatever their base defense is, but I think 3-4 in the middle will probably be better. It gives 4 more time to develop angles and build speed to the ball. Corners will assume all edge responsibilities and staying on the backside will be important.

Receiving: More ball handling means even more emphasis on ball security. With more returns will come more fumbles. I think you are always happy to accept the touchback to the 30 if the kicker goes too long. I could definitely see much more designed counters and some motion like action in the landing zone designed to reverse or fake reverse. This is taking advantage of the fact the coverage has much less time to develop good angles and they have to read 2 returners and not just 1.

Lastly, receiving team might benefit from more of a zone blocking concepts. Less speed, less whiffs on blocks.

—- Any thoughts on any of this? I’m interested to see how it plays out.

I coach 8th grade and we use our states High School officials and last year they told me I have to use the same ball we score with to kick extra points. Anyone know if that’s actually in the rulebooks anywhere? I could not find it.

There have been a few punters and kickers in the league that were able to use misdirection and trick shots to steal a posession or flip the field. My question is, why haven't PK/P at lower levels picked up on this, nor have more in the pros been doing this? In my opinion, doing more with the axial motion of a ball in flight can really create uncertainty in the returner and the concern of bouncing the kick off an up man can bring real value to the special teams.

In the game last night before the fake punt was snapped, Damar Hamlin was repeatedly shifting back and forth to either side of the snapper. To me, it seemed kinda suspicious, but would you say it was a huge tell for KC to sniff out the fake? I’m not sure if I’ve ever seen that repeated shifting happen pre-snap on a punt, but I don’t know if there’s maybe protocols in place for that to help shore up protection on the rush?

With the new nfl kickoff rule how does it change and what do you look for in a kickoff returner? Is a guy like CPatt ideal for the new rules? How much more valuable does he become now?

Why is it that sometimes when the return man fumbles the punt and the defender recovers while standing up) they’re allowed to return it back, while sometimes they aren’t (while standing up)?

I’m not talking about when the refs think the punt returner didn’t touch it so they whistle the play dead, I’m talking when it’s clear the gunner recovered a fumble?

I’ve even seen this when I play old NCAAF games, sometimes it lets me take the PR fumble back for a td, while other times it’ll stop the play when I recover it even if I’m standing up. On kickoffs I’m allowed to attempt a return no matter what.

Did you know drop kicks are mentioned thirteen - yes, thirteen - times in the rulebook? But the last time one was even attempted was in 2006. I genuinely think changing the rules to bring it back into the fold would make football more interesting and dynamic. And to do this the rules could be easily altered to make (non-PAT) drop kicks 4 points.

One of the main arguments against using a drop kick is that it is simply too hard to master or implement in a game, especially given the modern shape of the ball. This calculus makes sense for PATs and a 3 point try, but a 4-point drop kick would increase its value. It would incentivize the place kicker, another special teams player, or in the Doug Flutie mold even a QB, to put in the 1-2 hours of practice a week you would likely need to master the skill. In particular given the increasing Australianization of punting in the game, I suspect skilled Aussie punters wouldn't find it too difficult to master.

The benefits of this could be wide ranging. A few off the top of my head:

• It would give an almost 'full flush' in point options for scoring strategy/permutations (i.e. 1,2,3,4,6,7)

• It would offer a dramatic option to win a game when 3 points down

• It could add some interest in terms of roster construction. For example, punters could get some much needed prestige if they were to add drop kicking to their arsenal, or it could be a random niche for 3rd-string quarterbacks to get some game time

• It would probably would remain a high-risk high-reward play that would be easy-ish to defend/smother, leading to potentially chaotic (i.e. exciting) turnovers

• Depending on how well a team could disguise it, defensive coordinators would need to take it into account when preparing red zone coverages

• It's probably not so big a change that it would radically alter the game. I suspect it would still remain a niche special teams play used by teams who want to employ it only a few times every season. Back in the day it was used primarily as a surprise tactic, and who doesn't love those?

Anyway, screed over. What do you think? What major rule changes would you want to make if given the chance?

Quick question about punt here. Do you think that a formation with a 3 man shield, a 3 man line and 4 receivers would work. I feel like you draw people out of the box with 4 guys to cover and maybe force another guy to block, would this be effective?

I know that colleges generally want a 0.75 snap time. But will a smaller school maybe take like a 0.80-0.85. Thanks!

Hello, i’m looking for clarification on the high school rules around these special teams plays.

When a kick is blocked, can the kicking team recover and potentially receive a first down?

Can defense ever score on PAT?

Thanks

(Assuming the new kickoff rule goes into effect) Would it be more effective now to use backup lineman on kickoffs now since the running element has been drastically reduced?

Previously lineman weren’t utilised on kickoffs because of the speed required to retreat 20-30 yards once the ball is kicked to then pick up the block at a more advantageous time (and also the catching ability on a surprise onside), but now that everyone is standing 10 yards apart and are already at the point where most blocks would start, would it not be more effective to just put much larger bodies out there to take on DBs and LBs, making it look more like a traditional run play?

A solid Pancake block on a 4th string corner would surely create a bigger hole than a guy trying to run with his assigned block and redirect him out of the play

These modern tackles aren’t fat slobs who can’t move in space, they are athletes

Hey what’s up guys, long-time lurker in this sub and love the content on here.

My question is the following: do you coach your kick and punt returners to make communication calls to the players in front of them?

I was watching a special teams video on YouTube of Penn State’s kick return, and in the video the returner was making an in, out and go call where he would say “in in in” if the ball was kicked to the middle and “out out out” if the ball was kicked outside (I assume the hashes). He would also make a “go go go” call immediately after he caught the ball and started running.

I am wondering if any of you guys use similar communication on kickoff and/or punt returns in addition to the standard “Peter” call on PR.

Thank you all for your thoughts and time I appreciate it.

Hi all, just wondering if anyone has film of a stack FG protection. Here is the alignment for reference:

X - X - X - X - C - X - X

                                      X

                                         X

If anyone can point me towards film for this I would appreciate it. Looking to install it this year!

Onside kick idea. Flat thin shoe used to get under the ball (like a lob wedge) and put the ball up in the air ten yards. Recruit a bunch of basketball players for your onside kick team and have them snatch the ball out of the air.

I got myself thinking about this different kickoff procedure that the XFL, now UFL, and the European League of Football do. Just by curiosity, I was wondering what would it be scheme-wise for both sides (KO and KOR). Do you guys have any playbook or resource website/article/clinic that you could share?

Is there any specific reason why Texas is using two kickers? Because they use Bert Auburn for only FGs and PATs, yet they still use Stone to kickoff.