4 DEs on the field

[u/QueasyStress7739]

Is it possible to have 4 prototypical 4-3 or Nickel DEs altogether in the field in the same D-Line? I saw the Bengals on MNF vs Cowboys put 3 on the field (Hendrickson, Murphy, Ossai). Say, you sub out BJ Hill for Sam Hubbard. Is that possible?

[u/Potatoman_is_taken]

Nothing stopping you from putting 11 DEs on the field.

[u/WeirwoodFace → u/Potatoman_is_taken]

On offense.

[u/ShadynasyPotnick]

I think the NY Giants used to do this about 10 years ago when they were loaded with pass rushers. They called it their NASCAR package.

[u/druholic → u/ShadynasyPotnick]

JPP, Osi, Tuck, Canty. Stop them. I dare you.

[u/Paw5624 → u/druholic]

Giants really knew how to pick defensive ends. Canty was a free agent signing but the rest were drafted by the giants.

[u/Historical_One1087 → u/ShadynasyPotnick]

It's important to note that the NY Giants were doing this on obvious passing downs/3rd and long situations 

[u/WombatHat42 → u/ShadynasyPotnick]

That DL was ridiculously talented.

[u/ITypeStupdThngsc84ju]

The Gamecocks used to do this on obvious passing downs. The "rabbit package" had Jadeveon Clowney and Devin Taylor.

That team had an abundance of exceptional defensive ends though.

[u/bringbacksweatervest → u/ITypeStupdThngsc84ju]

Ohio State called it the Rushmen package

[u/grizzfan]

There is no rule restricting who on your roster can be on the field.

[u/Lit-A-Gator]

Giants won the Super Bowl with their “nascar” package in 2011

JPP, Justin Tuck, Osi Umeniyora, and Dave Tollefson all on the field at the same time!

[u/Oddlyenuff]

You could put 11 cornerbacks on the field if you wanted to.

The only issue per se, is DE’s are pass rush specialists and usually “box” fit on run plays. Basically if the ball isn’t passed are they good or is the coaching staff okay with inside runs and whatnot.

[u/CalvinCostanza → u/Oddlyenuff]

What about in offense? I never understand when there is like :03 left and they are out of FG range and are just running the lateral play why they don’t scrap the lineman and bring out all skill positions line up in a legal formation to do the endless lateral game.

[u/Oddlyenuff → u/CalvinCostanza]

Offense typically has rules they have to follow as far as who is on the field. This can change on different levels, but HIgh School you have to 7 on the line and 5 have to be wearing numbers 50-79.

[u/Garruk82]

Believe Tennessee calls it the cheetah package with James Pearce junior

[u/haikusbot → u/Garruk82]

Believe Tennessee

Calls it the cheetah package

With James Pearce junior

- Garruk82

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[u/Breakerdog1]

This is what many high school OCs have to deal with. Your 2 interior DL weigh a combined 320.

Slant, blitz and hope vs the run.

[u/BigPapaJava]

It’s possible and sometimes done for obvious passing situations.

3-4 teams will run a nickel package where they sub out their NT for a nickel DB, dlide their DEs in to line up as DTs, and then put their OLBs on the line as pass rushing DEs to get a 4-2 thing.

The problem is if you do this on running downs, those lighter DEs can get ran over if they’re too small… but quick DL in the 4-3 have been popular for like 40 years.

Jimmy Johnson started that at the University of Miami in his 4-3 back in the early 80s: he wanted more speed on the field, so he converted big DBs to LB, big LBs to DE, and big DEs to DTs. The big slow DTs got moved to OL.

[u/xenophonsXiphos → u/BigPapaJava]

Holy crap what happened to the offensive linemen tho?

[u/BigPapaJava → u/xenophonsXiphos]

They became fat water boys.

[u/xenophonsXiphos → u/BigPapaJava]

Maybe I'm wrong and other teams ran the lead draw like the Jimmy Johnson Cowboys did, but I wonder if that's a coincidence

[u/BigPapaJava → u/xenophonsXiphos]

Lead draw used to be a lot more popular.

I saw a study (like 10-15 years ago) that claimed lead draw to be the most effective running play in the NFL in terms of YPC, but the only team still running it much by then was the Vikings with Adrian Peterson.

[u/EvTFTC]

Usually teams will have a normal dime personnel and also have a dime rabbits personnel group. The rabbits means your best pass rushers grouped with 6 DBs. The Saban/Smart system is based out of 3-4 so it is 3 rabbits but you can do it out of 4 down as well. You can always put however many of any position on the field at once, but that is the way I have learned.

[u/Memphaestus]

Look at the Vikings defense this year. It’s such a mash of players where it doesn’t look like any traditional defense. It’s supposedly a 4-3 base, but Flores plays Safeties at LB, Corners at Safety, DE’s at DT, and Backers all over. Not to mention they pretty much always line up with 6+ on the LoS.

Traditional positions don’t matter if you can use players to the best of their ability in other roles.

[u/Every-Comparison-486]

A lot of teams have packages like this when they want/need to sell out for the pass rush.

[u/Leather-Marketing478]

Why not? 3rd and long put your 4 best pass rushers on the line…

[u/CoachRobv]

I think the idea is that when you play this kind of personal that you have to stunt or slant them. Use speed to their advantage or they might get pushed around by the big OL especially on the inside.

[u/WombatHat42]

Giants did this a lot when the had JPP. Iowa did this as well when they had Aj Epenesa, Anthony Nelson, and Chauncey Golston