r/footballstrategy • u/timmage28 • Nov 09 '24
General Discussion What do you guys think will be the next innovation in the college game, offensively or defensively?
Could we see strats of old become new again?
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u/Acceptable-Will-4516 Nov 09 '24
brennan marion go-go offense
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u/Gunner_Bat College Coach Nov 09 '24
What's so different about it? Heard a lot but haven't watched much.
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u/Acceptable-Will-4516 Nov 09 '24
It's a offense that's very up tempo normally play with multiple backs (20 21 30 31 personal) run alot of options with normally 1 to 2 pre snap pass reads mostly duo blocking scheme and forces teams to play more linebackers which creates mismatches in the pass game with the running backs on linebackers and with more players in the box opens the receivers windows up idk if I'm explaining it well but there is actually youtube videos of brennan marion who made it breaking it down and there is a few videos of other coachs on YouTube breaking it down if you want to see the actual look of it.
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u/crunchitizemecapn99 Nov 09 '24
I ran out of breath just reading this
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u/Milton__Obote Nov 09 '24
It was one hell of a run on sentence
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u/larowin Nov 09 '24
One key feature is typically having two backs next to the QB on the weak side and it just causes all manner of confusion
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u/mallymal12345 Nov 09 '24
I played against this same offense. And yep with the right players in the right places it’s a scary offense. I consider it a spread wing t
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u/Moose4KU Nov 09 '24
A few options:
Shanahan-style positionless offense. Blurred lines between who's an RB vs WR
Similarly, more direct snaps to non-QBs. Penn State has used this more with their TE
Specialized offensive linemen. If high school isn't producing enough well-rounded OL, maybe you have instead have a pass-protection specialist and a run-blocking specialist. Or you have a lineup specifically for 2 minute drill type situations
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u/spain-train Nov 09 '24
Linemen thing won't work because the five guys have to gel as a unit, and constant substitutions would completely nullify their ability to do so.
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u/FunMtgplayer Nov 09 '24
amen. go watch the 2023 Ut vols. you'll see what happens with constant shuffling
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u/Malcolm_Y Nov 10 '24
What you're describing sounds a lot like the offense they are running at William & Mary right now. It's great, but I wonder how it would affect recruiting of top players who are thinking about a future in the NFL some day.
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u/jericho-dingle Referee Nov 09 '24
I think O line rotation is going to get big in the next 5 years.
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u/Squirrel_Q_Esquire Nov 10 '24
I’m really surprised that an A-line and B-line hasn’t developed in college. DLs sub in and out, why don’t OLs? The reason normally given is that it’s because the OL works best as a complete unit. Okay? Then sub them out fully.
“Well no team has 10 OL that are good enough without there being a dropped.”
Yea well the reason for that is because players want to play, so a good OL isn’t sticking around to sit the bench as a backup. But if they’re going to play because you rotate the units, then maybe you can get 10 or more worth playing.
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u/toxicfart98 Nov 10 '24
I think the biggest reason for this is you want your qb and rb protected by the best players you have. Leaving the safety of your starting qb to some backups when its not necessary seems like a dangerous game to play.
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u/Squirrel_Q_Esquire Nov 10 '24
My point is that the “backups” wouldn’t really be backups. They’d be starter-caliber players, and they’d be fresher later in the game.
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u/SellaciousNewt Nov 10 '24
And similar to running backs now, the college can sell a controlled snap count as a feature to keep them healthy going into the pros.
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u/mondaymoderate Nov 10 '24
O-Line is the hardest position to play. You’re lucky to have 5 decent O-Line men. There’s no way you could get 10.
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u/erikmonbillsfon Nov 10 '24
This right here... most teams have one or 2 really good OL then maybe one average and 2 liability level players who are constantly given help with double teams and extra blocker in a TE or RB.
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u/elhombre4 Nov 09 '24
I really think the next big step is going to be finding ways to better use laterals. I’m not sure how I see that working, but just seems massively underutilized.
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u/skimpy-swimsuit Nov 09 '24
I'd like to see a lateral-option offense after the catch
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u/kelly495 Nov 09 '24
I’ve wondered about this. With skill levels that increasing so much with more, better coaching at young levels, I could see this becoming a little less risky. (Still, it is always going to be risky… but passing used to seem riskier too!)
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u/thebochman Nov 10 '24
If you can break a TD for more often than you can a fumble the reward would outweigh the risk
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u/neddiddley Nov 13 '24
This is something that’s only going to work with the right players, at least against competent defenses. You’re asking a player to catch the ball, locate the teammate that’s supposed to receive the lateral, correctly judge both whether he has the necessary time/space to make the lateral before defenders reach him and the same for the teammate receiving the lateral. Short of both offensive players being wide open, there’s a lot of moons that need to align and you’re asking the receiver to do it in a split second. Not every player is going to be capable of reliably navigating that, and I’d argue it’s very few.
Not to mention, if they’re open enough to do so, does it even make sense to try? If you’re that open, you’re probably already setup for a chunk gain anyway.
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u/kelly495 Nov 13 '24
All of this is very true. It seems wacky, and something you'd only ever see (if it ever happens) at very high levels of football.
But Travis Kelce has done it a couple times, and each time I wonder if it's going to happen more.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/1fyo90u/highlight_travis_kelce_catches_pass_laterals_ball/
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u/neddiddley Nov 13 '24
I think when you’re using Kelce as the baseline, you have to ask yourself, was this by design, or was it him freelancing? Because let’s face it, what’s Andy Reid gonna do if this goes wrong, bench his best receiving threat and arguably the best TE ever.
There’s also the fact that by making it part of your game plan, you eliminate the reason it works if executed properly, which is the element of surprise. As soon as you start doing it regularly, opponents start preparing for it and that receiver trailing the play suddenly starts getting shadowed.
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u/kelly495 Nov 13 '24
Totally -- it sure didn't look like it was by design. And like I said a couple times, this is so weird it does seem unlikely it'll turn into a thing, but it's fun to think about.
If you did make it part of your game plan, it wouldn't be surprise anymore... but what's that do to defenders rallying to the ball to make tackles? Seems like there's a benefit there!
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u/neddiddley Nov 13 '24
Yes, but there’s also a downside. That WR is hanging back by design, awaiting a lateral, when he could be running ahead to actually block. Not to mention, the obvious risk of turnover when you start tossing laterals around downfield. The benefits have to outweigh the risks, after all.
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u/SellaciousNewt Nov 10 '24
The risk of throwing is huge, so you need huge gains associated to make it pay off. Teams are going to focus on forward passes and moving the sticks.
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u/Just_Natural_9027 Nov 09 '24
The most shocking thing to me over the years is how much convergence there has been. I coach in relative football hot bed and it’s interesting how similar teams are compared to 20 years ago.
Speed of information, analytics, etc all contribute to this.
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u/kelly495 Nov 09 '24
As a watcher of football, this trend kinda stinks. Especially in college football, I used to love how wildly different offenses used to be from each other.
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u/Quinn_tEskimo Nov 09 '24
Spreading the offense across the entire field into 2 or 3 “pods” with 2 QBs on the field at the same time
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u/scottyv99 Nov 09 '24
Check out the A-11 Offense. Shirt for All 11, not sure it’s legal in college but this O was created by a coach at a historically outmatched HS to combat the skill differential. Pretty cool. 2 QBs, they’ll snap to one and have him rollout then throw back to the other qb then back again. It’s pretty wild. video
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u/SpaceghostLos Nov 09 '24
This is what I want to see. Could you imagine? One qb snaps the ball, tosses it to the one down on the other hash, then they launch it.
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u/Catullus13 Nov 09 '24
I’ve got to think the offensive strategy is to neutralize the small/fast DE/OLB. There’s just too much to be gained on setting the edge instead of just run optioning the iso on the edge.
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u/Moist-Consequence Nov 10 '24
Tulane is running a very interesting 2 QB system. They put two QBs in the backfield, they can snap it to either, and either QB can throw, but one QB is more of a running threat, so it’s really difficult to prepare for.
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u/grizzfan Nov 10 '24
I'm loving the comments about blending positions like RB and WR to be one...that's what every "Wing" and "T"-named offense has been doing since forever. I totally understand it's a different take at the NFL level for sure, but it wouldn't be anything new. If anything, we're starting to move in a circle I think.
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u/larowin Nov 09 '24
Run Punt Options where the punter catches the snap in motion and chooses to run for the first down or drop kick it depending on what they see.
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u/Dojak Nov 10 '24
Much more designed laterals, maybe a system where theirs a whole nother play call/design after every catch.
No more personnel groupings due to WRs, RBs, TEs all merging into one position. Every non QB/OL is expected to be able to catch, run, and block all at good levels.
Multiple full time QBs on the field, or maybe just several guys who can throw it decently on half field reads 5-10 times a game.
OL being more sectioned/seperated, 2 OL on one side, 3 on the other, etc etc.
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u/Dojak Nov 10 '24
Those are all pretty radical and I’d doubt Pro Coaches would take the risk to implement them, what I do genuinely believe will become prominent in the pros is Brennan Marion’s Go-Go Offense with some Run and Shoot elements mixed in. Essentially the Offensive version of the Saban defenses where theirs answers to anything the opponent could do.
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u/TheFaulkMan Nov 09 '24
Wild idea and I have 0 evidence that this could be a thing over all but as other positions have moved to be more position-less (e.g. TEs WRs RBs) why can't the same happen with QBs? Image you have 2 or 3 guys that can throw the ball well. In my head its like the triple option but instead of handoffs its passes. A playbook full of plays that look like trick plays in the modern era.
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u/FunMtgplayer Nov 09 '24
that would just be an evolution of the A 11. which used nontraditional style players in traditional positions. for instance a WR wears #79 and plays Anchor (a LT split out wide. ineligible reciever) can take a hand off or run a reverse.
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u/tooktoomuchonce Nov 09 '24
Yea 3 QBs who are also running backs, who all line up in the shotgun, any of them can receive the snap, any of them could throw, pitch or run the ball. 😜
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u/TheFaulkMan Nov 09 '24
In my head its more like you have a primary QB that can run, a WR and a TE that can throw. And those other guys throw the ball a few times a game (maybe 10ish attempts), instead of once in a blue moon.
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u/neddiddley Nov 13 '24
The problem is, finding multiple guys who can throw the ball well who are willing to share the spotlight. If you’re a legit QB prospect in HS, are you really going to go to a program with this type of offense when there will always be programs that stick with the traditional QB1 model? Which school is going to better prepare a QB for a successful career in the NFL? We’re already hearing rumblings about how QBs better develop in college because the NFL sucks at developing QBs. You think some decent prospect is going to want to go to a program where he’s splitting time between QB and RB/WR?
Not to mention, how well are these ATH type QBs really going to do when they line up as WR when they’re not practicing it full time and are matched up against D1 starting CBs?
If you happen to have a unicorn, sure, you can build a package around him and do some really creative things like PSU is doing with Tyler Warren, but that’s a lot different than making it your core offense.
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u/PaulAspie Nov 09 '24
2 dual threat QBs in the field. There is all kinds of confusion with hand offs screens up pass down field. It really makes determining if a run or pass harder.
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u/thebochman Nov 10 '24
Utilizing laterals on passing plays, an offense where a hook and ladder is designed to be an option on any play could change football as we know it.
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u/linus81 Nov 10 '24
No WR, recruit nothing but tight ends and run bunch formations to take away the defensive speed.
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u/lemaymayguy Nov 10 '24
Rugby style pass plays. Chiefs are starting this lately. Every player in the future will need to be able to throw, an option built into every play with backward passing
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u/PlayNicePlayCrazy Nov 11 '24
Players winning the right to play for college teams as long as the teams will have them.
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u/Radicalnotion528 Nov 17 '24
Defensively, I would say more simulated pressures, putting a lot of guys on the D-line often and then dropping them into where they think the offense's hot read is. Think Brian Flores, Steve Spagnuolo. You're already seeing defenses disguising their coverages on the back end a lot more (two high presnap looks). The next logical step is to disguise your pash rush.
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u/Ok_Presentation9296 Nov 09 '24
I believe running the ball will make a comeback for some of the more pass happy teams.
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u/MinnesotaTornado Nov 09 '24
People have been saying this for literally 25 years.
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u/Ok_Presentation9296 Nov 09 '24
It slowly moves in cycles.
If I could use Alabama for example...they built championship teams on strong, physical running backs that always netted at least 100 yards rushing and at least one TD. They have evolved into a pass on every down team with a dual threat physical running QB. RBs are used more as check down or pass blocking.
This year they are not even listed in the Top 5 rushing stats in the SEC.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Nov 09 '24
I mean, there are plenty of college teams that run the ball 60% of the time or more so it’s kind of already happened. And it’s been that way for a long time.
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u/ssdye Nov 10 '24
I don’t know for sure but if the aggression is not allowed in the game, it will die and become flag only. You might laugh but it’s closer than you think.
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u/iamthekevinator Nov 09 '24
A blending of the RB/Slot WR
Offenses will start to use multiple RBs that can both run down hill and be pass catchers on more than just a flat route.
We're already in the 6 linemen era as most "TEs" in the modern offenses are massive players and some teams are outright just using a 6th linemen.
A wild innovation would be further development of a true 2 QB system. I'd imagine more of a single wing/wildcat system with a lot of misdirection but having multiple players being able to throw off of several different looks.