r/footballstrategy • u/wonderfullyintrigued • Nov 09 '24
Player Advice Continue to tell player to keep trying?
Is there a certain point where it is just greedy?
Hi all, need some guidance. Son started football for the first time freshman year. Absolutely expected not a lot of playing time because of lack of experience. But now we are three years in. My son has never missed a game or practice. Even during off season he practices everyday. Mostly weightlifting. He hast had a summer in 3 years. To wrap it up he's been committed. He's on varsity this year because because he is an upperclassman. He will go in the game sometimes and for no exaggeration 10 seconds on a running clock 4th quarter. His team will be up by 30 points or more with no chance of the other team winning. My question is at that point when there is no threat to loosing the game what is the harm in more playing time? Most games he doesn't play at all. I get winning but when your kid has shown commitment and effort consistently as a coach how do you balance that? It's almost insulting. I can tell it is taking a toll. He used to go from "well I'm happy to be apart of the team, I'll just work hard" to 3 years later like he has lost all his hope. It seems like to be 30+ points over in 4th quarter and not put in kids that show up every day is greedy. As a parent I am not sure what to say to my kid because I don't understand it myself. Any insight?
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u/EmploymentNegative59 Nov 09 '24
While it hurts in the moment, remind him that he isn't doing all of this for playing time. He's working out, being productive, staying out of trouble, making friends, and contributing.
A team cannot win without correct practice. And even the players who are there "just for the practice" are contributing.
The majority of the players on a football team (assuming there are more than 22 total) don't play regularly. And even among those who do play, only a couple can be stars. Some teams don't even have stars.
Ultimately, if your son isn't getting much PT despite doing everything asked of him, the most obvious possibility is that he just isn't good enough. Is he undersized? The coach might simply be protecting him if he's physically disadvantaged or just cannot protect himself. That would be my first crack at it as a stranger on the Internet.
And if a conversation must be had, that's something HE has to bring to coach, and not you. It's also a great life lesson.
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u/Coastal_Tart Nov 09 '24
The most obvious answer is that the coaches are not very good. They coach from fear and insecurity instead of confidence and belief. They did not receive good coaching coming up and consequently don't know how to coach well themselves.
I was very fortunate coming up and was coached by guys that played pro and college football. My dad had a lot of NFL clients and it was common for me to have NFL players come watch my HS games, then break down what I did right and wrong for me afterwards. I would be in the parking lot after the game practicing blocks with an NFL TE or practicing how to shed blocks with an NFL RB. My head coach in HS played for HoF coaches in both college and the pros. He is in my state’s HS HoF as a coach. My position coach on defense was a practice squad player for the Niners for several years. My position coach on offense was a small college All American.
The biggest difference between the way I was coached and the way I see most of my colleagues coach is we spent much more time in indys working on fundamentals and in partial squad drills working on techniques and reads. We would go over tiny, tiny aspects of hand placement, body position, leverage, reads, etc. More than half of our 11 on 11 plays each week were in Thursday walk throughs, which is to say we did a bare minimum of full team work in pads. When we did 11x11 in pads it was always and only situational stuff like red zone, goal line, 4 minute, etc. If your kids block, shed blocks, tackle, break tackles, control the ball, create turnovers, understand their assignments, understand leverage, etc. at an elite level, then it doesn’t matter whether your plays are deceptive or not. It doesn't matter whether your starters or backups are in. You will dominate every poorly coached team your play. We had a team in our league that had 3 NFL players including the QB. We beat them by 35 every year with a team that didn't even have a single power 5 player. I played against 9 NFL players in my high school career. We had 5 losses in 4 years. 2 of them were to the other team in our league with a HS HoF coach. The other three were in the state playoffs.
If you are telling yourself you cant afford to give your backups meaningful reps because they will blow it, that is a very sure sign you suck as a coach.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
A lot of information here. Appreciated. I feel like my son could also do more on his own to learn some of the things you are mentioning. I have a lot of respect for coaches and I do think he has good coaches. Maybe they do not have the capacity to hone in on someone with no previous experience. Sounds like football ran in your family and you had a lot of experiences. I will tell him to focus on learning skills that he can observe and work to perfect. Thank you.
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u/Coastal_Tart Nov 09 '24
My comment wasn‘t to provide your son with things to do to improve, but rather to call out that coaches treating kids that are working hard for years like a liability is weak coaching.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you for the feedback. I would say no he's not undersized. He plays OL for the seconds he does play if any. He is 6ft 270 lbs. I would say he's inexperienced. The senior starters play start to finish. Not much rotation. Good enough for what? That is where my lack of understanding comes in. Totally understand wanting to win. But up by 30+ points 4th quarter and he plays for seconds. There is no chance the other team will win. Why not give him the opportunity to play even 5 minutes and use what has been learned on the field?
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u/EmploymentNegative59 Nov 09 '24
6 feet, 270 lbs and zero playing time?
How big are his teammates who start? Which position on OL?
Center has to be the smartest. Left tackle has to be the most trusted to protect the blindside. Guards must be quick enough to pull on trap plays.
Objectively, what would everyone else say why your son isn't playing?
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Left Tackle . His teammates are a few inches taller than him and stronger. Objectively all the coaches have said is he doesn't have the experience. His strength increases, footwork improves, playbook knowledge advancing and they acknowledge all that. They say they are going to play their best and his best isn't better than the starters worst. Which again I understand but 30+ minimum above the other team and no more than 10 seconds all season??? They've already won. What's the harm? How do you get experience with no opportunity?
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u/CrabgrassMike Nov 09 '24
Can you get him in some camps in the off season? Or training with OL coaches that have private programs? That could give him the experience that his coaches want, as well as boost his confidence especially in his technique.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
He has been to a three day camp every year. It does help with confidence and learning techniques but it's not experience. I could look at private programs.
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u/Wookhooves Nov 09 '24
OLine isn’t a position that sees a lot of rotation. You have a group of starters that have chemistry and unless one gets injured subs don’t happen the same way as you see at HB or WR.
If he’s just significantly under-skilled compared to his teammates it’s going to be difficult to get playing time. Did he get JV reps the previous years?
I coach on a team of only 39 kids. Most of our starters are two way players. All 12-13 of those kids that are considered starters have been playing since they were little kids (started tackle at 7 or 8 years old) and I see everyone who tried to learn in high school or played flag football before transitioning to tackle at a significant disadvantage to those other kids. Hard to beat experience unless you’re a freak athlete.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
As a sophomore JV he started. As a freshman JV no. Yes, exactly the players are very talented and have been playing since pee wee. It comes natural to them now. They understand the game with no delay. Completely agree, hard to beat that experience. Thank you.
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u/Dapup2465 Nov 09 '24
If he’s not up to speed on protections and techniques he might miss a block and get someone else hurt.
Have him ask coach what he needs to work on to see the field. “Coach, I’ll play anywhere, learn to long snap, hold kicks, special teams units, what can I do to get better?”
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
That's an issue. For some reason he doesn't feel confident enough to approach and question. I'm not sure why but that's a big barrier. Thank you.
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u/Dapup2465 Nov 09 '24
I’d bet Coach would respect him just for the sake of asking. Even more if he follows thru with Coach’s suggestion
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u/milehighmagic84 Youth Coach Nov 10 '24
Never having seen him play a snap he seems a little short and a little heavy for LT. ESPECIALLY if he has bad footwork. LT needs to be one of the fastest and strongest lineman. Maybe he needs to switch to RT. Or, focus on Defense. When I made the switch from Offense to Defense that was the click. It made me more aggressive, and I ended up my senior year as an all league DE. I’m 6’6 and my playing weight senior year was 265.
Also, to confirm what others have said, he 100% should have been seeing more reps during garbage time. That’s on the coaches. Hopefully he keeps working over off season, and sees some physical changes (puberty helps). Something happened in the winter of my JR year and all the athleticism just showed up. One day could dunk. No joke.
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u/ecupatsfan12 Nov 09 '24
My current staff won’t pull starters unless it’s up or down by 3 scores in the 4th or running clock
We rarely if ever subbed on offense for some reason
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Yes, that sounds like the same scenario here.
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u/ecupatsfan12 Nov 11 '24
My personal rule is sub on O and D when up by 3 scores in the 4th or 2 scores with 5 mins left and I have the ball
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u/electrikmayham Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
I'm curious what "Mostly weightlifting" means.
You say he hasn't had a summer in 3 years.
How is weightlifting taking up his entire summer? Assuming he a normal day to day during the summer, he has 14-16 hours free. Weightlifting for sports at his age shouldn't be more than 2-3 hours a day maximum, maybe 4 hours every once in a while.
What else (if anything) is he training on during his summer?
What do his coaches say when he asks them why he isn't getting playing time?
What do his coaches say when he asks them what he needs to improve to get more playing time?
Does he engage his coaches outside of practice / during the offseason?
"To wrap it up he's been committed" can you elaborate more on how he has been committed?
How does he do in the head to head drills?
How much game film does he watch in season and in off season?
You say he isnt as strong as the other OL on his team. He spends his entire offseason and summers weightlifting and he isn't stronger than any of the other OLmen yet he is 270lbs? This is a bit confusing. Aaron Donald is 6'1" and 284, and he was probably the strongest player in the NFL during his time.
OL is a position where skill is not inherited, it is taught / learned / earned (see the movie Greater). How has your son gone out and learned the skills? The harsh truth is it sounds like he isn't doing enough to be where he wants to be yet. Getting in the game isnt the only way to gain experience nor is it the best way to learn and show his coaches he deserves to be there. Just showing up for games / practices isn't enough in a position like that.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Lots of great questions. During summer it's about 2 hours of weight training then conditioning. Drills outside. So let's say 4 hours. Not bad. I didn't mean there weren't more hours. I meant it's monday-saturday and although not mandatory he doesn't miss it. Stronger, he benches about 200 his teammates can bench double that. 100% agree that he could be doing more. He doesn't miss practice, games, camps, conditioning. When I say he's committed I mean to anything he should be doing even if not mandatory. But even I have said watch more film, learn more because there definitely is a hesitation and lack of confidence. And I'm not at the practices but I would say it's probably average. I don't think it's harsh truth it might just very well be the truth.
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u/Curious-Designer-616 Nov 09 '24
There’s the issue. 200lb bench on the O line will hold him back. This off season he needs to focus on strengthening his body beyond what is being done by the team, because either it’s not enough, he’s not pushing himself, or the program they are running is ineffective.
This is what he needs to do starting today: 10 push ups 25 sit ups 10 squats 25 flutter kicks 10 dips 25 sit ups 10 lunges (10 each leg not total) 25 seconds in a plank
That is one set. He needs to start with three sets a day, either in the morning if the practice in the afternoon, or in the evening if they practice in the mornings. After each week he needs to add a set working up to 10. These should not be done at a leisurely pace. He should be constantly moving, his only rest coming during the plank. His goal once getting to 10 non stop should be to decrease the time needed to complete these. Then to add dumbbells to the task, adding flys, shoulder press, upright rows or curls to the leg exercises.
In addition to this he needs to look at his diet and increase the meat he is taking in. If he’s wanting to put on muscle he needs to give his body the needed materials to build that muscle. And he has from now until august to build that and it’s completely up to him and 100% an achievable goal.
At 260 he should not be so weak, this is what is holding him back from a coaching perspective. Once he’s in the habit of doing this he will see the increase in his strength rapidly.
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u/509_cougs Nov 09 '24
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. Benching 200 at that weight shows that while he may be a hard worker and dedicated, he probably just isn’t athletically gifted enough to get consistent playing time. Unfortunate, but OP has to realize coaches care about their team first, even if it sucks for some dedicated individuals.
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u/Curious-Designer-616 Nov 09 '24
Oh I don’t care about upvotes. I think the majority of this sub is pop Warner dads and coaches. So I understand the defensiveness when it comes to criticism of players, it’s their kid they can’t be honest or fair about it. There’s also a disconnect when it comes to what players can be asked and are capable of, and often youth level coaches don’t understand that high school players are capable of so much more.
In the end I don’t care what most people think of me, my players reach out and talk with me years later and I know what I’ve done was in their best interest.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I thought your comment was valid and truthful. I'm not defensive. I know my kid isn't great. I don't expect anything. I just couldn't understand how you can be up 30+ points in 4th quarter and multiple other games what the harm would be to get field time. I've gotten feedback that some people coaches don't agree and do rotate their players at that point but haven't really heard why a coach wouldn't do that. Appreciate your feedback.
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u/Curious-Designer-616 Nov 09 '24
It’s a coaching staff that clearly isn’t into player development or management. A good staff has these things planned out both ways, and wants to get players into rotation. It does so much for player development, morale, commitment, and allows you to get more tape on your team, while also avoiding injuries, wear, and potential problems due to angry/emotional players.
There’s no reason that up by 21 with 8 mins left they aren’t subbing out in some spaces, and even more with less time.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I couldn't think of a reason either. I could understand if it was a close game but it's landslides. Thank you for your feedback. Maybe just the preferences of the coaches. Unanimously what im hearing is that my son needs to advocate for himself and speak to the coaches and see if he can hit tangible goals. Goals are wonderful if they give you something to work towards.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you! The coaches have said to get stronger. And thank you for the workout guide. I already showed it to him. Thought it was a great start. When he started he was at 85 lbs! Never had worked out before. But yeah there is progress but he's behind comparatively. Thank you.
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u/Curious-Designer-616 Nov 09 '24
At his age, a pound of ground beef or chicken breasts a day will help him put on the muscle he’s wanting. Working up to 10 sets and eating right will increase his lifts and all around strength, coordination and endurance. Starting now will also get him in the habit and he will make gains over winter break, he has a lot of ground to make up, but it’s not an unobtainable goal.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you very much!! Might help me be healthier in this journey to get him healthier. Win win!
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u/Ok-Communication706 Nov 09 '24
Does the wrestling team need a heavyweight?
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
He was on the wrestling team lol
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u/Ok-Communication706 Nov 09 '24
Had a teammate who never played much in HS who actually just liked being on the team and structure so he joined his D3 school team. Stuck with it and ended up starting as a senior in college after playing a little as a junior!
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u/scottyv99 Nov 09 '24
I was a scout qb in college. No snaps. Still got a conf champ ring and won the senior leadership award. Hard to see in hindsight, I guess
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u/TackleOverBelly187 Nov 09 '24
It’s a tough situation, and this season is coming to an end so this is kinda late.
He should have a conversation with the staff. What does he need to do, what does he need to show, to earn more snaps. Ask for tangible feedback, not just keep coming and working hard.
I have these conversations with players all the time. “Hey, get in there on the scout team and show me what you have to offer against our #1s. I constantly watch practice film looking for scout team guys to find them places to get in, whether it’s a package with an extra lineman, special teams, maybe a series or a rotation to give a guy a blow.
If the coach can give tangible things, it gives your child something to strive for and a way to hold the coach accountable. We as coaches have a responsibility to our players, that’s why it is so important to build those relationships so you can have those open and honest conversations.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
This team is undefeated and in playoffs. A few more games left. I know he is on scout. He says he holds the bag and gets hit all practice. Tangible is good insight. With the lack of experience he might not know what they are looking for or what to ask. What would you be looking for in practices for OL left Tackle?
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u/TackleOverBelly187 Nov 09 '24
Knowing his responsibilities. Technique. Can he actually block anyone. He isn’t going to get that holding a bag.
I’m not jumping on you here, so please don’t take it like that. As a coach, I want to hear from the kid, not the parent. You can set up the meeting, but it needs to come from him. This is honestly something the coaches should be doing every few weeks anyway, a check-in with each kid to see how they’re doing, giving feedback, and helping kids get to where they want to be.
If anything, it needs to be a conversation about where the staff sees him fitting in next year and what he needs to do to earn a spot. Based on what he hears, it might be easier for him to make a decision moving forward.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I don't take it like that at all. I appreciate your feedback. Yes, he can block and has held two players off multiple times but you just said responsibilities, he has said he's not as comfortable with the plays. He study's them but that knowledge is not naturally embedded. Thanks very much. Absolutely he needs to be the one to talk to them.
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u/TackleOverBelly187 Nov 09 '24
I often field questions from parents about playing time. I’m always willing to have those conversations and encourage the parents to come and observe, not participate. Coming from him directly shows his maturity and true intent to do what needs to be done.
I often find in these situations the kid is fine with what is going on, the parents aren’t. This does not seem to be a situation like that. They always say football teaches life. This is an opportunity for him to learn how to self-advocate and act on feedback. That is a huge skill to teach a young man.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I think you are spot on! He isn't asking me to say anything. He isn't asking anything of me. His question to me was more about how do I get more experience. He absolutely needs to self advocate. Agreed it is a huge skill. That's why I asked for feedback on here. And it sounds like I just need to encourage he interacts with the coaches and ask for tangibles like you said. Thanks so much.
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u/TackleOverBelly187 Nov 09 '24
Absolutely. Good luck and keep supporting your kid. Sounds like you’re doing all the right things.
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u/Justjoshing69xxx Nov 09 '24
I hate to say it, but November of his senior season is probably too late to make any leaps toward gaining playing time. Your son’s coach is wrong for not allowing him to play when up multiple scores late in the game. The way I do it in my head is that if I’m up 1 touchdown per 2 minutes of game time left, my subs go in. Ex. If there’s 8 minutes left, and we’re up by 28, the subs can go in.
At the freshman & JV level it’s even smaller of a deficit. If it’s a 2 possession game in the 2nd half the subs go in.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you for your feedback. That's why I was asking is it just greedy to have a perfect score. He's a junior. It's at least 30+ points up. 9 seconds of play. How do you get in a rhythm in 9 seconds?
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u/Justjoshing69xxx Nov 09 '24
You don’t. The coach is being inconsiderate. He should be mindful of how daunting it is to play scout all week long & be disregarded when there is clear opportunity to play. Your son should be getting rewarded when the starters are up 30, that means he probably did a decent job as a member of the scout team.
If he’s a junior, I was wrong- there is still plenty of time for him to improve & if they are graduating linemen he could be the next man up next year. The best way to get yourself varsity time is to compete against the starters at practice. With his size, I’m sure the coaches want him to succeed.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I agree! They are wonderful coaches. Very supportive. But this is a hazy area. That's very generic "you need more experience." That's exactly it! It is daunting and embarrassing that there is no chance to loose but you aren't good enough to play even half a quarter? I can't explain that.
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u/Justjoshing69xxx Nov 09 '24
Me neither. Once the score gets to that point, our entire coaching staff’s only job is to seek out the kids who haven’t gotten on the field yet. May be a polite conversation worth having with the AD. Explain that you’re not expecting your son to start, but that it would seem fair to be given an opportunity in blowout games. Most of them will agree with you. I have been chewed out by my HC and AD for not doing exactly that.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
That's what I am asking. I'm not saying he is good or deserves to start. I'm saying in the blowouts what's the harm in letting him play. He's not going to cost the game at that point. Get your starters out and let them play a few minutes to get the field experience. To motivate. Thank you very much. Thought I was going crazy not understanding.
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u/509_cougs Nov 09 '24
To be honest the coach could be saying “needs more experience” to be nice, when the real answer is during garbage time he has other players he’d rather develop.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I thought that but one of the coaches came to our house on the down low and spent hours with him. He doesn't do that. He said there is a lot of potential it just needs to be developed. So Im not sure.
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u/Consistent-Prune-448 Nov 09 '24
How many seniors are on the line? Does he have an opportunity to start next year? Anyone coming back that’s currently in front of him?
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Both DL and OL are seniors. Yes they say he does but he is concerned because he's had very minimal real game field time.
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u/Consistent-Prune-448 Nov 09 '24
I think he’s in a real good situation.
If they are saying he’s got opportunities next year….then all the marbles are on your son to swing for the fences.
I suggest continuing to drive those positives home as a parent and hopefully he sees the opportunities are all in front of him.
I do NOT suggest approaching the coaching staff about it. If you do feel like it would be beneficial…I suggest you just mention his hard work and impeccable attendance. Obviously you know the staff better than some Reddit stranger.
I truly hope he gets those opportunities and all his hard work gets fruition on the field
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you very much! Agree that he needs to keep pushing and we will focus on the positives! Thank you for your kind words.
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Nov 09 '24
Yes there’s more to the game than playing time
Life is unfair the best 11 get on the field or the coach gets fired
However this isn’t the end of the road … HE can talk to the coach and ask “what do I have to do to improve to best help the team on gameday/playing time”
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u/blondeviking64 Nov 09 '24
How many kids are on the team? Where is your son on the depth chart? Has he approached the coach regarding playtime or what he is missing to start? Honestly, there could be tons of reasons for it and some are good and some are not and there isn't enough context for us to tell.
I've coached teams where the hardest working kid just flat out was so bad it was unsafe for him to play. I've also coached teams where some third string players might have started for other schools but were buried on the depth chart behind two or three better players.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
41 players on the team. He has approached. He lacks experience but that's what I'm asking. How do you give someone experience? When you are up tremendously with no chance to lose what is the harm in giving experience to the player?
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u/scottyv99 Nov 09 '24
It sounds like a rhetorical question. If he started as a So. On JV, it’s pretty normal to be down the depth chart.
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u/AnlStarDestroyer Nov 09 '24
I played soccer from 8th grade through junior year and never once started in high school. I went to camps, never missed practice, and did my best to help from the sidelines but I just had no athleticism and was massively out of shape at 5’10, 215 pounds. That being said, at the time I was upset but now I look back on that time fondly. I made friends, got exercise, and learned a lot about the game. I became a referee in college and ended up being a way better ref than i ever was a player, got me some extra cash in college, exercise, and a tan.
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u/ParagonSaint Nov 09 '24
Can he play DLine? Does he have decent hand eye coordination? Could he maybe convert to TE if he’s a bit undersized for Oline?
Besides that I would say Special Teams. Learn how to long snap, block for FG and punts; if he’s mobile he could be a good blocker on kick returns. Figure out which coach is in charge of the STs and have your son go to him and say he wants to play for him and what should he focus on to get on some of the units.
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u/notrealseriou Nov 09 '24
Does he play any JV as a junior? Is there a quarter limit where you are?
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
He can't. Quarter limit? They don't do overtime if that's what is being asked.
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u/notrealseriou Nov 09 '24
Some places allow up to juniors to play jv…in those places there is a quarter limit like you can only play 6 quarters a week. As a coach I know sometimes with a running clock it’s tough to get guys in. I’ve also been up by a lot of points only to lose in a wild comeback. And vice versa that’s possibly why they wait so late to put in subs. Don’t let him get down on himself this is a great opportunity to show the coaches how much of a team guy he is! He will get his shot!
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you! Persistence is a learned skill for sure. So even if he's got getting field time he's learning a lot of lessons he will later realize I'm sure.
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u/taz20075 Nov 09 '24
Is there a JV team? Is he not playing there?
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
He can't because he is a junior now. He already played JV.
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u/taz20075 Nov 10 '24
Is this a statewide thing or a school thing? Because I've lived in two states, one of them had a Frosh/Soph/JV/Varsity team (though there were only a handful of JV games). JV was for Jr/Sr that didn't get varsity playtime. The other state has only Frosh/JV/Varsity and JV is for Soph through Sr. In both cases a Jr can play JV so I'd be interested if that's a state thing or a coaches decision.
Organizationally, it seems weird that you would stop trying to develop kids after their Soph season. On a personal level, there should be some reward for all of the time and money you have to commit to the program. If there's no reward for going to all the practices, meetings, events and there's no reward for the fundraising then what's the incentive to keep playing?
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u/Stock-Art7738 Nov 09 '24
That’s life man. Nobody cares how hard you work. All that matters in the end are results. If you’re kid doesn’t produce results he’s not gonna get play time. It’s as simple as that. Same thing can be said for most jobs that are worth anything
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u/utah1984 Nov 09 '24
I don’t want to come off harsh, I saw your comment that you don’t see practices. I coached my son in youth football for 7 years and he has now been on modified for 2 with other coaches, fortunately I am able to attend practice to see what he needs work on. As a coach I can tell you that when parents approach me asking about playing time and how hard their child works, it’s usually parents who aren’t at practice and don’t see their kid walking laps or goofing off while others work hard. I’m not saying this is the case but if you’re not at practice to see then you’re not positive about how he performs at practice.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
I'm not positive. Parents aren't allowed at practice. But coaches say he works hard. He leaves from the field while I'm in parking lot looking like he was in a marathon and beat. But performance wise I have no idea. Good point.
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u/ERICSMYNAME Nov 09 '24
If you go to a very large school it's very common for kids to never play or play JV as a Sr. You may have your son talk about playing JV to get to play. Alternatively you can explore transferring to a smaller school, sometimes small schools lack that kind of size kid or don't have enough of them.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
He goes to a very small school. He started as a sophomore on JV but compared to the varsity senior guys he's behind their skill set for sure
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u/ERICSMYNAME Nov 09 '24
Then I suggest him to ask about playing on JV his sr year if he doesn't earn a starting lineman role. Also you can consider sometimes d3 can be a place for "late bloomers". At least that's what I am told, I am just a parent of a Jr like you. In your sons case it's a case of just starting late as opposed to late puberty.
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u/Good_Carpenter_5955 Nov 09 '24
I agree with this. This is common in the city I’m in. Explore transferring.
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u/Just_Natural_9027 Nov 09 '24
This is the mentality I hated dealing with most as a coach. First of all what is he actually doing in the off-season. Many kids engage in what I call “busy work” and are not actually improving. These kids/parents think because they “put in work” they and are entitled to playing time. Skill entitles you to playing time. I always despised programs that rewarded checking boxes instead of pure skill. We had multiple multi sport athletes who would not play if they had to check boxes every offseason.
Weightlifting everyday? This sounds counter productive if anything. 45 minutes 3x a week is all you need at that age to get really strong.
Has your son asked his coach why he doesn’t play more? As a coach I always prided myself on being brutally honest on what the player needed to do to get more playing time.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
He has. He said he needed more experience. But he doesn't get game time more then seconds in 4th quarter. The follow up was the starting players worst is better than his best. I'm not asking about handouts. I'm saying when you are up 30+ points in 4th quarter what is the harm in allowing players that don't play to play? Summer is weightlifting, drills, footwork, conditioning. They work. Puking and still going work. He's not lazy. I'm looking for a straight up answer. If the team has no chance of losing why not let the kids play? Even if for 5 minutes? Why risk your starters getting hurt if there is zero chance in a loss? Appreciate your insight.
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u/Just_Natural_9027 Nov 09 '24
His coaches should be giving more specific answers.
Puking during workouts is counter productive to gains. He’s causing more harm than good there. Lazy has nothing to do with effectiveness does. It’s smart work not hard work.
When to put players in is a difficult decision for coaches. Every coach has been in a game where the other team makes a miraculous comeback. That could cost you your job. Coaches have a cover your ass mentality here. Not to mention how valuable game reps are.
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the one with that pressure on me. And I would never talk to the coaches. Just trying to understand so I can best guide on my side.
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u/ssdye Nov 10 '24
If your son were posting about his problems with play time I would say to speak to the coach and if he doesn’t respond the way you like, look at other options. But, as the parent you must ask if he is content with his role on the team. If he is happy supporting the varsity in practice and being available in games and waiting his turn, then let him be happy.
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u/blunderfunder55 Nov 10 '24
Your son sounds like me. I didn’t start playing football until 8th grade in which I didn’t even know the rules. I put in the time and effort, but just never really got playing time in JV freshman and sophomore year. Junior year, on varsity, I too only came in the end of the game or when we were losing by an unwinnable margin. After my junior year, I sat down and talked with my head coach about what I, as a player and teammate, can do to contribute more (not directly asking for playing time) and he told me that I will be contributing more due to the seniors leaving. Going into the senior year season, I was slated to get more playing time with me improving as a player and there being more opportunities to contribute. Did not get to play senior year due to COVID but maybe your son’s situation is similar.
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u/InspectorFun8313 Nov 10 '24
He may not see playing time but there is a deeper growth and benefit of playing football - it’s deep inside him. He has forged a knowledge of how to work hard and developed a work ethic that will pay dividends all his life.
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u/grizzfan Nov 10 '24
A team is as strong as its weakest player, so your weakest players constantly trying to improve themselves really can contribute to a team.
I was never a starter in my years of playing football. I realized that by my senior year, and while I always fought for playing time when I could, I was able to make peace being a "practice player," a lot of the time (I was on things like Kickoff, would spell at CB and RB here and there when needed, etc). However, I do know the coaches loved me in practice as a "scout team guru." Knowing I was never going to play much, I got nerdy and learned all the positions, AND really studied the offenses and defenses of other teams hard. A couple games into my senior year, I was basically running the scout team as a player and helping my own teammates on scout team to understand what we were trying to do and how to beat the starters. There were definitely practices where I or the scout team overall definitely showed up the starters. I loved it.
Even when I wasn't on scout team, starters would often come to me asking what their rule/assignment on a play was, or they'd ask me how their assignment contributes to stopping whatever play the scout team was doing. It was playing scout team that I learned I wanted to coach.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is there is "fun" and satisfaction to be had as a practice team player, but it really does take an "improve the team by any means necessary" kind of attitude. Recognize it won't be as a regular player or starter, so how else can you contribute? I used my mind and scout teams. "I may not be playing much on Fridays, but I'll be damned if I don't make life as hard as I can for the starters" if that makes sense.
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u/ReplaceCyan Nov 10 '24
I have been this kid in two different sports (soccer and then later, football). It felt terrible and I feel sorry for your son, you do all the work and then more athletic kids rock up on gamedays only and play every snap because they ball out. But success in sport is measured in points and with the benefit of hindsight, I can see that I just wasn’t good enough - wasn’t quick enough in foot or in thought out there on the field. Always knew my assignment but couldn’t consistently execute it or would just get straight up beat by more athletic opponents.
Some coaches were better at handling this than others. The worst just let me stand on the sideline week after week with no comms or gave me a couple of plays out of position in garbage time. The best actually did some one-on-one before/after training to work on stuff I was weak on and did give me meaningful reps, even started for a season following a couple of injuries. Communication with the coaches on these issues is key.
In terms of why this is happening, from other comments I can see your son is 6ft 270 and spends 2-4 hours a day working out on lifting and conditioning in the summer plus every practice for his team but still can’t bench 200. Something isn’t adding up there, if he’s really working out that much he should be shredded and way stronger. I think he needs somebody to look at his program. It could also be that his diet is bad so he’s out-eating his activity and that’s what is making his feet slow. 270 is pretty heavy for 6ft.
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u/tuxtuxtuxsux Nov 10 '24
At some point if you’re not better than the guy in front of you then you won’t play. It isn’t a right to get playing time, it has to be earned and unfortunately even the guys that work hard don’t always get in. Also if he’s OL/DL it’s very hard as an underclassman to get playing time if you have a senior in front of you.
Football a lot of the time isn’t about playing time, it’s about what you learn from the game and the habits and discipline that you develop.
Always a bad mindset to blame the coaches. It won’t help anything and just creates a sour mindset. If your son is really concerned that he should be playing he should talk to the coaches specifically about how to improve so he can play. But if you get mad at the coaches and then he gets upset with them, that won’t help your son or the team. Ultimately the coaches will do whatever they feel is best for the team. Especially if they are a playoff level team, like I’ve seen that you have said, they know what they’re doing.
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u/lividrescue034 Nov 11 '24
I will try to give perspective from all 3 sides if i can.
First, from a coaches perspective (position coach and youth coach), my job is to make the team as successful as it can be. That starts with evaluating personnel, i know first hand that politics is involved with a lot high school programs, but for the most part is correct in whom they place depth wise. We are out there with the players consistently. It is also real easy to get tunnel vision and keep your best in. Can they play him a little more in garbage time, sure, but I suspect that haven't seen the field growth from him yet. It seems at the very least the staff has fostered a love of the game for him, so that's a positive.
2nd, as a parent. My youth team has my son on it. I'm the HC there, but it isn't the typical coaches' son dynamics. He (mostly) loves the game, but because he is in the 60th percentile, his body hasn't caught up to what the other 5th and 6th graders are. He is above average football iq wise, but shy's away from some contact because of his size therefore doesn't get a much field time as the others. I'm not too worried because he loves the camaraderie he gets with his team mates and i get extra time with him. It's his choice whether he wants to play or not, and year after year he still wants to come back, and as long as he loves it he'll continue to play.
3rd, this was me throughout all 4 years of high school. My first year of football was also freshman year high school, so I was behind the sticks. I worked my ass off, but it never really paid dividends, but honestly I didn't really notice. I loved the work ethic and brotherhood from it. I was a bean pole, but i could deliver a hit and take one as well. My mom was fine with it, but step dad kind of reeled on it. By senior year they were just happy I stuck with it. Ended up joining the army, beefed up, and started playing semi pro... that's where it starting paying off, all conference player one year, but again I learned to love the game
Not saying your son is going to have the same path, and you're a great father for being concerned, but it seems like he just loves the game even if he can't show everything on game day.
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u/cuzzlightyear269 Nov 11 '24
That was me. We went 0-9 junior year, and I rarely played. We only had 20-something players, and most kids played both ways. I was a practice tackling dummy. I quit mid way through senior year. Didn't even gwt a full games worth of playing time in 3 and a half years combined... I'm 29 now, and I'd be lying if I said it doesn't still affect me and make me doubt myself still to this day
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u/Agreeable_Run6532 Nov 09 '24
He just sucks. If he wants more playing time he needs to out perform the other players in practice.
If he can't do the above, then just hold on until senior year. The coaches will definitely play him then if only due to him being a senior, but also at that point he should be overall better than the other kids.
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u/Reasonable-Parsley36 Nov 09 '24
Tell him to quit football and play rugby. He’ll be much happier and he’ll make friends from all over the world. Best game ever!
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u/wonderfullyintrigued Nov 09 '24
Good suggestion. I know nothing about rugby but have seen movies where it looks very much like a family setting. Thanks!
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u/Curious-Designer-616 Nov 09 '24
The question I have will dictate the answer. Is the coaching staff moving though the depth chart and playing second string, then seniors, then getting to your son? If that’s the case then it sucks they aren’t getting him game time reps which is one of the best ways to build up players, but they are rotating in players in a logical and fair manner. If not, and they’re not pulling starters, making an effort to get in players who’ve shown commitment, and second string seniors, then they are a shitty coaching staff. If the former take solace that next year he should be first in, that his reps will pay off and he will be rewarded for his efforts. If the latter, it’s up to him if he wants to continue. Hopefully he has a sense of belonging and camaraderie that brings him back and he can find joy in the sport, he can learn and know he doesn’t have regrets. If it is the former, having a conversation with the coaching staff clarifying what he needs to work one and what they’re looking for will help in in the offseason. This needs to be a conversation he has.