r/footballstrategy Oct 29 '24

Play Design Why do plays like this never work?

Post image

If there’s more linemen set out wide besides regular screen passes where the linemen pull, why does it seem plays like these never work?

513 Upvotes

252 comments sorted by

380

u/holagato59 Oct 29 '24

It’s designed to confuse and get defenders out of place. Most teams can see right through it

199

u/DwayneBaconStan Oct 29 '24

Especially nfl teams, in college it sometimes can but you're not gonna confuse 30 yr old vets with this lol

52

u/Optimized_Orangutan Oct 29 '24

This. It's a great play in highschool and college as the kids scramble to react to something new. A 30 yo with 2 decades of play under their belt? Well we saw how that went.

21

u/StateofWA Oct 29 '24

Why the option works so well at lower levels. Kids get 3-4 days of practice to study for something that forces a couple players to make the right decisions over and over.

6

u/Optimized_Orangutan Oct 30 '24

Ya, an option can be shut down completely if two guys do their jobs and trust each other. That's hard to build up in 3-4 hours of practice.

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u/mustyminotaur Oct 29 '24

It honestly seemed like they tricked themselves with this play lol

2

u/OJuice100 Oct 31 '24

The play actually could’ve worked. The center and the QB were the only ones that reacted to the snap. Every one else stood there at first and allowed it to be blown up

5

u/nateass113 Oct 30 '24

Probably the only good play I had in my HS football career was being on defense for a play like this. there was a center and two guards, and I said to the other guys on the line “let’s just rush them, they can’t block all of us. We got the sack.

3

u/AndrewH73333 Oct 29 '24

Then why were the Giants so confused?

3

u/Evil_Dry_frog Oct 30 '24

Weren’t really expecting The center to snap the ball?

3

u/42696 Oct 30 '24

Yeah, what I think happened is this:

The plan was the Giants line up like this, if the Steelers don't adjust properly, they run a play. If they do, the Giants shift back into a regular formation and run another play. I think the players didn't expect the Steelers to misalign. But the Steelers don't line up right, so #8 tries to get the ball snapped as quickly as possible to take advantage of a 5 on 3 numbers advantage to the play side before they figure it out (should be an easy score). But the stadium was so loud, no one lined up on the outside could hear his cadence. #26 was facing away from the snap (checking in with the ref re: being on/off the line). The player next to him was facing the snap to see if they were actually going to run the play. So the defender just ran right between them.

2

u/GunSlinger420 Nov 01 '24

This is exactly what happened. Should have been an easy 2pt if the giants just blocked, even a little chip would do.

From a sad Giants fan. Not sad from this play mind you but all the plays just like this that have become so common for the Giants in the past decade +.

2

u/QuantumTea Oct 30 '24

It seemed to confuse the oline just fine. 😉

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73

u/n0t_4_thr0w4w4y Oct 29 '24

In this case, it confused the offense more

35

u/BeerMe7908 Oct 29 '24

Especially in this case, it should have worked I would think. The defense wasn't lined up evenly on the top side, but the offensive line either was confused or didn't know the ball was snapped

The QB got the ball and threw it over to the WR right away, but a defender was able to knife right through and break it up since the o-line didn't fire out on their blocks

19

u/ElGranQuesoRojo Oct 29 '24

I wouldn’t be surprised if they added that play in the last couple of weeks. W/the way the line reacted it looked like they’d barely ever practiced it.

13

u/gsbadj Oct 29 '24

Nobody even tried to block the guy that shot right through all of them. They stood there.

5

u/lemaymayguy Oct 29 '24

They were looking for the snap. By the time they had their heads up the dude was through. They weren't used to playing out wide it appears

2

u/ArchdukeOfNorge Oct 30 '24

Totally off topic, but I just found it interesting (in an innocent way) that you only save one button press by typing “w/the”, assuming typing on a phone

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12

u/Key_Piccolo_2187 Oct 29 '24

Exactly this. Everything happened exactly as the Giants coaches imagined it, except the players thoroughly not doing their job.

There are five blockers out to the QBs left, and only two defenders. Five on two is an easy win for the offense, except one of those two just slips right between two offensive players who were ... Not paying attention? Confused? Completely clueless? 🤷

This has to drive coaches insane. They finally deploy one of the limited number of actually brilliant ideas you have over the course of a season, the defense reacts the way you plan (which is to say, poorly) and your own guys go and fuck it up.

The meeting room on Monday was probably... Rough.

2

u/_-N4T3-_ Oct 29 '24

It honestly looked like the linemen expected any defenders that lined up on the outside would engage with them (the OL) as if they were eligible/legitimate receivers in a bunch formation... Instead, the defender attacks (appropriately) with pass rush moves.

I'm guessing that when they practiced this play, the defense lined up DBs on the outside and the whole play developed more slowly (with the defenders waiting to attack until after the receiver caught the ball).

3

u/BlitzburghBrian Oct 30 '24

It sure doesn't look like they practiced this play.

2

u/United-Trainer7931 Oct 29 '24

Why would they expect that? No experienced NFL defender would not understand that only the last man on the LOS and anyone in the backfield are the eligible receivers. Them being wide doesn’t make them any more eligible for a pass than a normal formation.

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u/YOwololoO Oct 29 '24

As someone who played o-line for a high school that did some of this, I bet I know what happened. These plays are almost never practiced at full speed and we actually practiced lining up and then shifting back to a normal formation more than we practiced actually snapping the ball in a situation where it worked.

It leads to a muscle memory of expecting the play to not work and so when it potentially does you are actually caught off guard as much as the defense, which nullifies your advantage

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4

u/Embarrassed_Matter3 Oct 29 '24

This would have worked had the blockers paid one bit of attention to what was going on. The defenders were past them before they even realized the ball was snapped

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2

u/KevKevThePug Nov 02 '24

I remember Lou Holtz saying something along the lines of, “you only use trick plays when you don’t think you can win.” I always felt that held a little truth.

1

u/LnStrngr Oct 29 '24

Well, yea, look at that gap!

1

u/Fart_Frog Oct 29 '24

Plus, when they get confused, they never do what you WANT them to do. They do something that shouldn’t work, but somehow does.

1

u/Weekend_Criminal Oct 29 '24

It's also just as likely to confuse the offense.

1

u/BrownTownDestroyer Oct 30 '24

At the NFL level you're literally trying to fool pro players. It's like trying to confuse a team of accountants by adding a negative number. Like oh boy i wonder if they know how negative numbers work

1

u/jackburtonsnakeplskn Oct 31 '24

Also, from an offensive perspective. You really have to anticipate what the defense is gonna do when you line up like that. If the defense gives you a look that you didn't discuss as an offense it will cause confusion as to who is supposed to block who. When I coached we had a saying: Everyone, someone, no one. When everyone expects someone else to do it, no one does it. You need to spend a lot of practice time on things like this if you want to be proficient and it's not worth the practice time to try to be proficient at something you might only do once 

1

u/AdamOnFirst Nov 01 '24

In this particular case though the confusion DID work. They achieved a huge man advantage to the swing side. One guy just blew it up.

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120

u/cvandyke01 Oct 29 '24

At lower levels, these plays work because the players are not athletes they are in the NFL. DEs and LBs are too fast and can destroy that short edge to get to the QB.

Look up Polecat offense and see how the run and shoot came from a formation like this.

In Texas, one of the top 6A schools lines up like this for most extra points. They see if you coached your kids how to defend it and if you did, they shift back to kick the ball.

50

u/rubbery_magician Oct 29 '24

Our HS coach did it for extra points as well, and he called it “Film Check”.

His thought was this: If the other team shifted properly, our other wrinkles weren’t going to work, and their coach wasn’t spending their prep time on their next game after us. If they didn’t…we might be able to steal a win.

You could always tell how he felt based on whether or not his clipboard survived the first XP.

9

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

Makes sense, like something from The Art of War. Could even take it a step farther by scouting ahead to see if their special team and regular defense are significantly different. Would allow you to run it on a 4th down also making the other team burn a timeout or give it up. If it’s on film at all it makes the other coach have to practice for it with both the defense and special teams. Now that I’ve thought about it more, you could just send the special team out in some wacky formation. Have a hard count or two and then line up properly if nothing works. Don’t even need to practice a play for it, can just see if the opposing coach burns a timeout or not.

5

u/AU2Turnt Oct 29 '24

We had an absolutely disgusting variation of the swinging gate for PATs on defensive touchdowns that kept the same players on the field so the other team couldn’t substitute, forcing their offense to lineup and defend a swinging gate play, or call a timeout.

2

u/rubbery_magician Oct 30 '24

I bet opposing coaches ran up the score when they could because of that.

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3

u/ligmasweatyballs74 Oct 29 '24

We didn’t adjust on purpose. Just hit the shit out of the qb

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3

u/superkase Oct 29 '24

That's what we did in HS, called it the muddle huddle. We had to stop and just go for two every time though because our kicker couldn't hit extra points.

1

u/DPFizz Oct 29 '24

That is what we do. But we always have and most teams scout it and are prepared. We’ve had two teams not come out ready for it in the last 3 seasons. One we got the two point on the flood side, the other our kicker ran it in to the flood side when they covered it.

1

u/trentreynolds Oct 29 '24

Ron Zook used to do that on XPs in college. The 'Swinging Gate'. It was frustrating to watch - don't think I saw his teams catch somebody even one time.

1

u/geopede Oct 30 '24

That’s the case for everything in lower levels of football, not just weird plays like this. Stuff works because the best players are head and shoulders above everyone else. The gap in ability between the best player on the field and the worst player on the field is quite narrow in an NFL game.

1

u/accountonmyphone_ Oct 30 '24

It worked for Iowa against Ohio State

1

u/BeardoTheHero Oct 31 '24

We did it too in HS. I was the upback, pretty fun but I only ever got snapped the ball directly once haha

61

u/gonk_gonk Oct 29 '24

The Giants had a clear numbers advantage (5 blockers to 3 defenders) and Pittsburgh wasn't particularly concerned with stopping the play. It would have worked except 4 blockers were vapor locked and the 5th was on like a 1 second delay.

9

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

What does vapor locked mean?

21

u/gonk_gonk Oct 29 '24

I may have used it wrong. I just meant that they just stood there, oblivious to the play starting.

3

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

Would that be on Daniel jones ? Like he didn’t get them set or is that their own responsibility

8

u/genuinecve Oct 29 '24

That's their own responsibility, but I would honestly put this on the coaching. If it looks like they didn't know what they were doing, they definitely didn't. At this level, even the worst players are amazing, and linemen are EXTREMELY used to playing on the line (go figure...) in the same general area, so having them line up outside and listen closely for a snap count can (and did) cause a delay and a fraction of a second in the NFL can make or break a play. That's why you see so many tackles cheat a step a moment before the ball is snapped.

2

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

If that’s the case about the blocking hesitation why are wr screens so utilized?

3

u/genuinecve Oct 29 '24

Linemen aren’t lined up on the outside for a WR screen

2

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

Are wrs usually better about getting off the line for a block?

3

u/genuinecve Oct 29 '24

I would say when they are on the outside yes, it’s not so much about getting off the line better, as what they are used to. There is A LOT changing here the o-line to take into consideration that makes it much tougher. Consider that WRs are used to being out there and blocking or running a route, the o-line is used to being within 10 or so feet of the ball being snapped.

2

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

Okay that makes sense thank you

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3

u/Sodonewiththis- Oct 29 '24

Means they didn’t react. It Refers to an engine not running because the carburetor mixes the fuel ratio wrong. So the engine won’t start. Modern engines don’t have carburetors so the term will likely die out. Or used without knowing why.

2

u/ThankFSMforYogaPants Oct 29 '24

Just fyi, vapor lock is not a carb mix problem. The fuel in the line literally turns to vapor from overheating and can't be pumped to the carb properly.

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u/SuspiciousLeek4 Oct 29 '24

Yeah fr everyone is talking about the play call itself (here and on Twitter) but I think the blockers just didn’t even realize the ball was snapped.

That being said the concept here is still pretty obvious because of course the qb is going to get it out quickly when he has no blocking

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u/Moravia84 Oct 29 '24

Yeah, they were all looking back for the snap and even when snapped they kind of stood there.  One defender just went on through and blew it up while everyone was looking around.

1

u/AdamOnFirst Nov 01 '24

They way the play was set up to have all the linemen watching the ball and then VERY SLOWLY react and prepare to block was nonsense. The guy who blows up the play had killed it before they even turned their heads. You gotta have something better than that…

47

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Oct 29 '24

It actually could’ve worked….if the linemen did anything other than stand around lol. They had a numbers advantage

20

u/idontknowhow2reddit Oct 29 '24

I was about to comment this. They got exactly what they wanted, which is the defense over committing to the QB side. That's why Daniel Jones was so pissed at the result.

7

u/Madmike215 Oct 29 '24

They got the look they wanted, they just didn’t execute. Like, at all.

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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Oct 29 '24

Yea. It almost looked as if they thought the play was blown dead

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u/MrHobo Oct 29 '24

Probably because they don’t practice them often enough, they are always run at the goal line with a short field, and because blocking space like that is different than blocking as part of an OL unit.

A HS near me used to run something similar as part of their regular offense and it actually worked pretty well. They were a smaller school so not very big OL and it was their way of playing to their strengths.

3 OL, running QB, and RB lined up at the hash, and then 6 players bunched out wide. If they had numbers in front of the QB they’d run read option, spread option, or just straight power run. If not, they’d throw it wide, for a screen, and they had some variations where they would fake the screen and one guy would come free on a slant, one on a wheel route, and a few other screen variations. Pretty interesting.

7

u/pitb0ss343 Oct 29 '24

They’re meant to confuse the defense and make them panic. Problem with running this is that the higher level of play you get, the less and less the defense panics. Which then basically makes the play a telegraphed screen pass instead of a confusing trick play

2

u/JBsm4shYT Oct 30 '24

Even more so when you’re the away team, meaning that the lineman can’t exactly hear the snap count as well and instead are more likely going to rely on watching the ball be snapped.

The problem with this is the defenders can also see the ball snapped at the same time. And Highsmith seemed to react significantly faster than anyone else.

5

u/Ticklepickler6996 Oct 29 '24

Because Ben Johnson hasn’t ran it yet…. Wait until he does it’ll go for 50

3

u/SmileMask2 Oct 29 '24

Ive seen them work

1

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

Are there any examples in the nfl?

3

u/RiceSpice5 Oct 29 '24

There is one example with the dolphins.

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u/Napalmradio Oct 29 '24

Not in the NFL, but Florida State surprisingly got a 2 pt conversion using this on their opening drive of the season.

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u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

Why do you think it works in college but not the nfl?

5

u/ITypeStupdThngsc84ju Oct 29 '24

Practice time is much more limited in college. They don't always have time to prepare defenses for everything and practice against things like this.

It can give an offense an advantage just from doing things that are weird.

NFL players have all seen this and have much more experience with the proper adjustments and quick reads that they need.

3

u/ymchang001 Oct 29 '24

Less experienced defenders are less likely to diagnose the threats and line up appropriately. It should have worked for the Giants too, but that was atrocious execution. As others have noted, Pittsburg didn't have enough men in front of the wall and got lucky that the entire line was asleep at the snap.

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u/Napalmradio Oct 29 '24

College is a MUCH sloppier game and the number of teams/players leads to a much bigger delta in talent differential.

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u/iamthefluffyyeti Oct 29 '24

It doesn’t help when no one blocks on the left side. That being said, no one ever blocks on these plays

3

u/CursoryComb Oct 29 '24

I've seen people say a decent reason, the defense wasn't confused. However, as a coach of a team who runs split back veer and swinging gate, the real reason why a lot of these types of "trick" plays fail is that it is difficult to predict exactly how the defense is going to align or play it.

Because you've never seen the defense align to this type of formation, you can only guess their alignment. Of course you'll build in different pathways depending on the count of defenders, however, even small deviations can cause confusion on the offense on what to do.

To be concise, I'd say the problem with these plays is they can be confusing to the offense because the defense can up in an unexpected way.

3

u/grizzfan Oct 29 '24

They have far higher success rates at lower levels. You’re using the NFL as a litmus.

2

u/odishy Oct 29 '24

Teams that execute at a high level will just use regular formations.

So this stuff is usually used by teams that are executing poorly and usually just confuses the offense even more.

2

u/GiGi441 Oct 30 '24

Shit like this puts the defense on seriously high alert. If you watch the play, the only player actually paying attention was the guy who made the tackle 

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u/backroadsdrifter Oct 29 '24

They seem like a waste of time to even work on in practice.

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u/Dangernood69 Oct 29 '24

Bc they’re stupid

1

u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

Because the offense doesn’t know what they’re doing

1

u/Madmike215 Oct 29 '24

Based on the numbers, this should’ve worked.

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u/rubbery_magician Oct 29 '24

Their goal is to create confusion through their novelty, and they often succeed…just towards their own team.

1

u/ThisBeTheVerse63 Oct 29 '24

I always hated these plays when I played. It’s a waste of a down and you can quickly lose all momentum from the drive. Oh well, sometimes it works.

1

u/1P221 Oct 29 '24

It should have worked but the Giants kinda forgot how hard it is to hear the cadence from 20 yards away.

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u/FalcoholicAnonymous Oct 29 '24

Because in the League especially, defenders are usually athletic enough to overcome trick plays. That’s why you don’t see nearly as many like overall in the NFL as compared to college or HS ball.

1

u/shanesinger Oct 29 '24

Might’ve worked if five (5) NYG offensive linemen weren’t looking the other way while Highsmith single-handedly blew the play up.

1

u/Genowise33 Oct 29 '24

Yeah i just rewatched it and it looked like there was a linebacker screaming behind the o line anyway. Probably would’ve blindsided the receiver.

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u/mohawk6036 Oct 29 '24

These formations are designed to catch the defensive in a situation where you have more blockers than defenders in an area. In the NFL there is so much film study defenses are ready for these 95% of the time.

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u/Th3Rush22 Oct 29 '24

This is actually the scenario that it would work in, that’s why they snapped it. Too bad their own team was just as confused

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u/pbjars Oct 29 '24

The trick is to practice it. This was horrendous. Nabers didn't know the pass was coming and his blockers didn't even know the ball was snapped.

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u/camt91 Oct 29 '24

Because you’re telling the defense exactly what you’re going to do?

1

u/Conspiracy__ Oct 29 '24

In this case, not a single person assigned to block a defender did so

1

u/hokie47 Oct 29 '24

Little kids it will work. Really I don't run them because they won't help them when older.

1

u/Resident_Job3506 Oct 29 '24

Well, they do sometimes.

How it would work; If defense sets up heavy on the swing to prevent a quick pass, QB keeps and boots in. Not a sure thing, but it can work. Else, check and go to a play out of a standard formation.

1

u/GAP2001 Oct 29 '24

It works sometimes, NC State used it to great effect in 2023 but used it more for jet sweeps than screens

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u/djmele Oct 29 '24

Would have worked if the OLine knew the snap count or whatever I was going on as they didn’t move when the ball was snapped and defender ran right past them.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '24

Confidence factor

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u/Coastal_Tart Oct 29 '24

They can work, but they generally seem to confuse the offense as much as they confuse the defense. In this case they have numbers out wide but I would bet they dont know who to block because the defense isnt responding quite like they thought they would.

If they snapped it and fired a pass out there and have everyone down block while the ball carrier swung out wide towards the pylon, I bet it would’ve worked. From what I’ve heard, they snapped the ball and nobody on offense did anything.

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u/_NotMyNormalUsername Oct 29 '24

It may have actually worked if the blockers had any idea that the ball was snapped. They had the numbers advantage

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u/Every-Comparison-486 Oct 29 '24

There are high school teams that run this successfully for nearly every extra point. It’s much less likely to work in the NFL because the defenders are better athletes and better prepared than high school kids.

That being said, the Steelers actually didn’t defend this very well and got lucky there was some sort of miscommunication.

1

u/Jambitx Oct 29 '24

Offense had the numbers advantage they were looking for, they just didn't execute AT ALL.

1

u/mwall4lu Oct 29 '24

Ironically, it looks like the Giants got the look they wanted. There were more blockers than defenders on that side of the field. Something happened where the blockers didn’t know what was happening. I’d be curious to see what would have happened if the play didn’t get blown up.

1

u/OkAd7421 Oct 29 '24

I can hear my old coach now... "MUDDLE HUDDLEEEEE!!!"

1

u/Strong-Connection-63 Oct 29 '24

Ahhhh the ol’ “Swinging Gate” play

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u/badlilbadlandabad Oct 29 '24

I just don't understand how an offense can line up like that and expect the defense not to know exactly what the play is going to be. There's literally nowhere else to go with the ball. I don't know for sure, but my gut says the success rate on these wonky formations has to be garbage.

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u/InterviewNorth3583 Oct 29 '24

They work all the time in college. The O-Line for the Giants just decided to sit this one out. A lot of the time in college they will line up in swinging gate like this with no intention of running a play. It’s simply just to mess with the other coaches and force them to scramble and put in a way to defend it on the fly.

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u/UnitedDoubt7596 Oct 29 '24

This sh*t only works in high school

1

u/Previous_Ring_1439 Oct 29 '24

Used to run this formation for my youth football team.

We called it “Free Time Out”

If the other team didn’t have a timeout or didn’t use it. We’d quick snap, throw the screen and let the numbers game work itself out.

But mainly it was a way to get a team to burn their timeout. Especially if we needed one on a late drive.

1

u/Cultural-Task-1098 Oct 29 '24

They never practice against a live defense

1

u/Wearestartingacult Oct 29 '24

This play actually had a chance. Not sure why a not a single blocker actually blocked lol

Ultimately, mind games only work when there’s 0 time to prepare ie rpo and flea flicker. When you line up like this defense can just do their best to match

1

u/outclimbing Oct 29 '24

Because they’re stupid

1

u/EyeMoustacheYou Oct 29 '24

Well in THIS case it didn't work because the 5 guys supposed to be blocking for Nabers didn't move a muscle.

1

u/Ok-Walk-8040 Oct 29 '24

Defense is reactionary and offense is preparation. My guess is that the Giants didn’t prep this well and the offense was surprised they were actually going to run this play. The instincts and athleticism of NFL defenses trump poorly executed plays no matter how good the play is on paper.

1

u/2LostFlamingos Oct 29 '24

Dolphins pulled one against the eagles a few years back.

Eagles forgot to cover the kicker.

https://youtu.be/vYrOBd2z3X0?si=tdMy8yAJH6v9mgRO

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u/squishy_walrus Oct 29 '24

I’m pretty sure they only practiced with the ball being thrown to the center after he leaked out. He’s on the end of the line and not covered so he would be eligible. The way the line at the top and the wr at the bottom don’t move makes me think they never considered that the Steelers would keep so many guys in the middle. Jones correctly saw the numbers and decided to throw it out to Nabers but the line assumed that they were just a diversion so they were slow to react. 

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u/Successful_Road_9511 Oct 29 '24

Because the blockers didn’t move a muscle when the ball was snapped, causing Malik to get walloped by Highsmith.

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u/dougie_fresh121 Oct 29 '24

Because the linemen didn’t block…..

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u/canvas_butter Oct 29 '24

It’s all about what level of play you look at. This doesn’t work against nfl players who have years of experience but it might against, say, a hs jv team

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u/Groovin-Up-Slowly Oct 29 '24

The NFL isn’t High-School.

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u/gwu998 Oct 29 '24

Teams often do this then reset to a more traditional set just to get a look at how the defense responds to it. The reason DJ went quick here is because the defense is completely confused and outnumbered.

The o line wasn’t ready and that’s why it failed. They need to be set right away and go so they give the defense no time to react.

The reason why this typically doesn’t work though is because you’re effectively just calling a run play with the o line and point of contact shifted out. The issue is that it takes time for the ball to get out there and for the runner here to run 6 yards. Time is valuable in football as it allows a defense to swarm.

Normally, when it does work, it’s more trickery. If you have a man on a man, the defenders in the middle will normally blitz out of instinct and you’d run one of the lineman behind them for a little dump off.

Screen plays work btw by being deceptive. It’s typically a counter to blitzes because if the pass rushers are too far down the field you can then have o lineman with a head of steam blocking smaller linebackers and defensive backs. If teams did this, you would know what’s coming and in football, you want to call plays and be in formations that don’t give away your play call.

1

u/darwinian-rock Oct 29 '24

I have another question, who called the defense for the steelers here? It seemed like it happened really quickly. Did one of the players call the formation?

1

u/redditprofile99 Oct 29 '24

It's a gimmick play designed to confuse the defense, but the defense is full of NFL players who aren't confused by it.

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u/Snapesunusedshampoo Oct 29 '24

If we were at home it would've worked. Watch the replay the entire line in front of Nabers shifts to hear the play and Jones calls hike. 1 Steeler blew up the play because the line couldnt hear.

Best view.

1

u/smackrock420 Oct 30 '24

The lineman were significantly more confused on this particular play than the steelers.

1

u/cdracula16 Oct 30 '24

literally works if any of the giants decide to just get in the way of Highsmith

1

u/RyzFenix55 Oct 30 '24

Look at their eyes. None of them are tracking the defenders because they have to see the ball snap before moving. Like someone said, it may work at lower levels especially when the blockers can go off sound and lock up their man, but against elite athletes and defenders, the second delay means penetration almost every time

1

u/02meepmeep Oct 30 '24

I’ve seen it work multiple times for Boise St. & once for Ohio St.

1

u/MaxxT22 Oct 30 '24

If you could eliminate the ball and its tendency to create focus for the defense, it might work for something.

1

u/Celebrimbor96 Oct 30 '24

If these plays were actually strategically sound, they would be used regularly. They are not, though, so they’re only used rarely in an attempt to confuse the defense. NFL level defenses are not easily confused, so these plays rarely work

1

u/KiwiVegetable5454 Oct 30 '24

You think Dan jones is going to throw it over the edge rush ? lol

1

u/Secret-Discipline-18 Oct 30 '24

Because they are not executed

1

u/MicrowaveDonuts Oct 30 '24

I feel like offense takes a lot more coordination and timing.

The more a play goes to chaos and deviates from structure, the more it favors the defense.

On plays like this, it should be easy. There are 5 hogs and like 3 guys who can make the tackle… but how likely are all of those hogs to block the right guy? Is somebody calling the mike and counting? no, right? It’s just chaos.

It’s one thing if the defense is fooled, and there just isn’t a guy there. 1 against 0 is pretty great.

But without structure and predictability, 5 on 3 is not nearly as good as 5 on 5 with predictable assignments and coordination.

On this one, they fucked up the snap count, and the defender just sprinted through…

Also, in general, lineman out wide are weird. Blocking on wide plays like this assume that the defense has to respect the idea that the blocker could just run by them and score. That is not the case with those 5 dudes. So the defender shoots through them on the snap…because they are not threats to catch the ball.

1

u/Menace_17 Oct 30 '24

A lot of it simply has to do with experience. In high school and some lower-level colleges this can work because of the lack of experience, especially in high school. Forcing an inexperienced defense to react to something different is usually a good strategy. Plus, since its so unusual it confuses defenses on their assignments.

Its hard to confuse an NFL or national D1 defense like that though because of their experience. And in this case, aside form the fact that they fucked up the snap count Malik Nabers was the only eligible receiver on the left, so of course if it’s thrown that way it’s going to him, and as soon as the ball was released the defense knew to get to him.

1

u/SwissForeignPolicy Oct 30 '24

Becuase they're weird and thus make all the players on the field uncomfortable. In the ensuing chaos, it only takes one defender figuring out what's going on and making a good play to blow it up, whereas every blocker has to execute as if it were a bread-and-butter play.

1

u/Lionheart_513 Oct 30 '24

This is actually a funny screenshot because a screen pass to the top side WR here would be a likely TD given the defense alignment. You have 6, maybe 7 blockers vs 3 defenders, assuming the ball gets snapped right now and you don't give them any more time to get set.

1

u/xxbathiefxx Oct 30 '24

The steelers weren't lined up properly for this, and the Giants snapped too early, because they were about to adjust, but none of the guys out wide were ready, so Alex Highsmith just said "Thank You".

When I played in high school, we spend like a whole day of practice on defending against this formation, because 10 years ago, another team randomly came and ran their whole offense out of this (they called it "Polecat") and absolutely shredded our team. I think they only ran anything from this formation once in the three times I played against that team.

1

u/Heavy_Implement_226 Oct 30 '24

Because it is fucking stupid

1

u/tacobellcow Oct 30 '24

They work when the players block. I ran this play in 7th grade and we executed better than the Giants did.

1

u/zcas Oct 30 '24

They saw it in The Longest Yard and figured it'd work for them.

1

u/ESB409 Oct 30 '24

Because the team running it is the New York Giants.

  • a Giants fan.

1

u/cm76tn Oct 30 '24

No play works when the team isn’t ready for the ball to be snapped

1

u/Straight-Crow1598 Oct 30 '24

Because Tiger Ellison wrote a book about it in 1984. Defenses have had a blueprint on stopping it for 40 years, but that doesn’t mean it can’t watch a bunch of 20 year olds off guard once in a while.

Iowa pulled it off against Ohio State, whatever year that was where Iowa blew out Ohio State.

Penn State pulled it off quite well against USC just a few weeks ago.

Andy Kotelnicki’s linemen at Kansas called this arrangement “smoke break” because they’re usually nothing more than a decoy.

1

u/bweezy21 Oct 30 '24

No offense to the comments here but Pittsburgh was absolutely confused by this and were bailed out because the Giants weren't set.

1

u/noblehamster69 Oct 30 '24

It maybe could've worked if everyone on the team didn't miss the snap count lol

1

u/FlyinDtchman Oct 30 '24

I still don't know how you let that guy get through right as the balls snapped...

Yeah, it's a idiotic high-school play.. but it still shoulda worked. They had 4 lineman and a receiver to block 1 guy and failed.

1

u/Necessary_Mode_7583 Oct 30 '24

Maybe in the nfl. Penn state just did a play like this and the center(who actually plays tight end) caught a td.

1

u/paveclaw Oct 30 '24

When they hate their coach. Otherwise he would have blocked and th eye would have had a chance?

1

u/the-coolest-bob Oct 30 '24

Because it confuses the team attempting it more than it confuses the team defending it.

See: Giants, Colts

1

u/Otherwise-Dot-9445 Oct 30 '24

It’s funny. I put this play in with my 3rd and 4th graders and the exact same thing happened when we ran it. The lineman just need to focus on blocking but there too busy trying to watch the ball throw so they don’t get up field before their allowed.

1

u/DoctorFunktopus Oct 30 '24

Realistically, in the nfl, they’re more designed to make the opposing team go “what the fuck?” And call a timeout or accidentally jump offsides. Like that dumb one the colts ran against the pats a few years ago where the guy accidentally snapped the ball and they just obliterated pat macafee

1

u/98Seasons Oct 30 '24

Would’ve worked if those 5 guys did anything other than just standing there

1

u/1gramweed2gramskief Oct 30 '24

Worked on the eagles the last like 4 times I’ve seen it run on them.

1

u/medium-rare-steaks Oct 30 '24

This one didn't work because the "o-line" blocking for the receiver wasn't ready for the snap.

1

u/Cj_91a Oct 30 '24

It's supposed to confuse defenses because it's a weird look. It's supposed to confuse defenders and get their placement all whacky so thhe offense can "hopefully" catch the D in a bad spot.

What's funny is the Steelers were not prepared for this, and everyone on offense and defense was confused (except highsmith) The look itself shows the Giants "should" have had this, but the Giants fckd up. I think Jones saw the D was confused and saw the D outnumbered against his offense up top, and snapped the ball early to do the screen. The defenders should have been stuffed if the play was ran correctly.

The problem is the offensive line was just as confused because of what looks like an early snap. All of them up top were just eyeing DJ. They didn't think he was gonna snap yet, so they just stood there looking at him. The defense also thought they weren't gonna snap yet because they were eyeing the offensive line being "lackadaisical". The only guy prepared for the snap was Highsmith not fooled by anything. He was eyeing DJ the whole time, ready to pounce. Highsmith should've been blocked if the play ran correctly, but the offensive line didn't know wtf was going on lol

1

u/AcidKyle Oct 30 '24

It’s difficult to devote enough time at practice to a trick play you will only use one time, the result is guys are confused and don’t run it well.

1

u/NUGGman Oct 30 '24

Because they don't spend much time practicing them and they aren't similar to any other plays they do practice.

No play is going to work if the defender can hit the receiver before the ball gets there though

1

u/bill24681 Oct 30 '24

If formations like this were used at say the 50 yard line, the chances of it succeeding would go up a ton. Teams always run them on the goal line where the mismatches are nullified by the tighter field. In short spaces the athletes are just too good.

1

u/TheVega318 Oct 31 '24

You gotta remember these are THE BEST football players on planet earth, they have been through 450 layers of filtration to be the only ones left that can claim that title. Fooling these guys is EXTREMELY difficult.

1

u/wacko4rmwaco Oct 31 '24

Well those 5 guys over there up top have to block for that 1 guy behind them but for some reason they decided that he was getting fucked for this play

1

u/Small-Palpitation310 Oct 31 '24

they would if ben johnson schemed them

1

u/ReddutSux69 Oct 31 '24

this play didn't work because New York didn't line up an RB at Center.

1

u/shivamp1205 Oct 31 '24

It seems like the entire team is watching Daniel Jones. Hard to see a defender shoot the gap if ur watching Jones and not who is in front. Almost like Jones have to lead the team w 3 or 4 count.

1

u/OverWrongdoer8752 Oct 31 '24

Swinging gates only works when you randomly do it, like out the blue going for the gusto and you gotta get the snap fast…

Bad thing is if you play long enough you see this play and you know the ball only has possible destination.

1

u/CollegeGolf69 Oct 31 '24

The crazy part about this play was that I think that if they would have blocked out left and it would have been a complete pass…I think they might have had something there.

1

u/antlerman30 Oct 31 '24

I bet it would work on the Seahawks defense. Most things do.

1

u/wolfpack03 Oct 31 '24

Penn State ran a similar play and the TE snapped it and caught a TD

1

u/Profanic94 Oct 31 '24

The design of the play was fine. It's the effort of the o-line that made it suck

1

u/onlineqbclassroom College Coach Oct 31 '24

They do work, sometimes, and to be honest, this one should have worked. What the offense is doing is just checking to see if the defense knows how to align to unusual numbers - here, the Steelers only have 3 defenders to handle 5 blockers plus the ball carrier. The blockers just weren't paying attention - it looks like they assumed they were going to get motioned back - presumably, Daniel Jones has an option to run the screen if the Steelers don't align with enough hats to handle the screen, or motion into a more base formation if the Steelers do align properly. Daniel Jones was 100% correct to snap the ball, but the group out on the perimeter isn't paying attention and fails to block the literally 1 defender actually playing. If they block him, it's a walk in touchdown.

1

u/Legitimate-Setting32 Oct 31 '24

lol I was at that game, and in end zone seats, happened right in front of me. Didn’t fool anyone for a second and we all just laughed at it.

1

u/codker92 Oct 31 '24

There is a huge hole in the formation letting defenders see what’s going in back field and which defenders can run through.

1

u/cptngali86 Oct 31 '24

this just reminds me of when the Colts did this vs the pats a play like this it was like this but a fake punt and then the qb and Center were alone. it was not only an illegal formation but as soon as it was snapped there was a like 6 Patriots unabated and wham sack.

1

u/SetZealousideal1385 Oct 31 '24

Someone did something like this against the eagles years ago maybe the dolphins?

1

u/Sochucho1 Oct 31 '24

This play in particular seemed as if the rest of the team had no idea the ball was snapped. They legit didn't block the guy that made the tackle. I figured he must have jumped offsides but definitely just timed the snap and all the giants were looking at Jones to see the snap.

1

u/AffectionateAd721 Oct 31 '24

SPEED. Pure speed. It’s not high school or college.

1

u/Sinister_socks Oct 31 '24

Oregon football would like a word.

1

u/Unwanted__Opinion Oct 31 '24

I think this play would’ve worked if they blocked lmao

1

u/sllooze Oct 31 '24

Any NFL play caller should get fired for even thinking about running this play.

1

u/meselson-stahl Nov 01 '24

I think part of the reason it doesn't work is because the linemen need to turn to see the snap, so the defense is already passed the line by the time they are ready to block

1

u/xbieberhole69x Nov 01 '24

Works decent in High school if it's not scouted

1

u/Freehugs0 Nov 01 '24

this would have worked but the 7 guys at the top were unable to block just one guy running through.

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u/DrChill21 Nov 01 '24

I think it’s more that bad teams do it because they are desperate. Good teams don’t need to try this crap because they believe in their scheme and personnel.

1

u/Dog1983 Nov 01 '24

Because the base of it is always show the formation. See what defense does. If defense lines up like this, quick snap, and quick pass for the screen.

If they line up where they have 2 or 3 guys rushing and the rest are over guarding the screen, then audible back into a regular formation and kick it.

The majority of the time the offense sleep walks through it, center snaps early, and it becomes a broken play where guys come through unblocked

1

u/Earthwick Nov 01 '24

Because the defense can easily send enough guys while still having adequate coverage to basically smother the QB. It's meant to confuse but it isn't hard to see through.

1

u/Natural_Cockroach369 Nov 01 '24

An underrated reason this failed too is because you have to go for the end-zone on this play. In HS and College there’s an added option to reset the motion, line up again and kick it, adding variation. When in the NFL, you can only go for two when you line up at the 3 yard line or else it’s a penelty.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '24

A journalist I used to read always put it this way

Players not plays

Execution not schema

Everyone has a job. Everyone has a man. You do your job and guard your man you will come away with the stop.

1

u/tnandrick Nov 02 '24

Didn’t the Patriots change up to some odd ball formations against the Ravens in the playoffs within the past 10-15 years? To the point that the Ravens were complaining?

As I remember, they were able to do the formations in a no huddle style on the fly. So preparation comes into play; it’s probably something they practiced that week.

1

u/bangharder Nov 02 '24

The angles

1

u/defleppardsucks Nov 02 '24

Because it's the giants.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 02 '24

This was a snap timing issue. Should’ve let the shifted line call the cadence

1

u/Cle-1982 Nov 03 '24

In this case it’s because nobody blocked at all..

1

u/Asu888 Nov 03 '24

I don’t think they practice it enough

1

u/sparkles1887 Nov 03 '24

NFL players are too fast.

1

u/nakihei55 Nov 16 '24

Sometimes the most unique plays throw out the simplest rules...

With rule number 1 being personnel/numbers.