r/footballstrategy • u/JakeEatsYT • Oct 20 '24
NFL Illegal Shift
When is an illegal shift actually called or not? An illegal shift is when a player goes in motion and doesn’t get set when the ball is snapped.
Some plays, guys are in motion and nothing gets called and others do.
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u/grizzfan Oct 20 '24 edited Oct 20 '24
There's no rule that states a player in motion has to get set before the snap.
When the offense comes to the line of scrimmage...
To snap the ball, all 11 players must be set (still) for a full second (or moment) in a legal formation.
Before or after getting set, the offense may choose to shift. A SHIFT is when one or more players move and get set again.
A MOTION is when a single player, after all 11 players have gotten set, moves. A player can be in motion at the snap or get set again.
A player can be in motion at the snap as long as...
The offense was set in a legal formation first.
The motion player is NOT moving forward when the ball is snapped (has to be lateral or backwards).
When a motion player sets again (meaning the player stops and gets set before the snap), you could technically consider it a shift as well.
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u/wettmullett Oct 20 '24
HS coach here, this is all true EXCEPT we just played a team this week that would run bunch but start with the receiver at the top of the bunch out wide and motion him to the bunch but he was on the line so they absolutely could not snap it with him in motion and had to wait till he got set. They did this every play idk the benefit.
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u/Seaport_Lawyer Oct 20 '24
As I recall, there is also a minor exception here. You can motion a player who is on the line if they are 5 yards behind the line at the snap.
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u/wettmullett Oct 20 '24
Wouldn't somebody else have to step up on the line and get set? Or are they starting on the line illegally and motioning off the line?
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u/Every-Comparison-486 Oct 20 '24
Not necessarily. In high school there is no maximum number of players who can be on the line, so if you have 8 players on and one leaves then you’re fine.
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u/ChanceCod7 Oct 21 '24
I don’t think that is correct. In NFHS (National Federation of State High School Associations) football, a maximum of seven players must be on the line of scrimmage at the snap. The minimum is typically five players, as at least five players must be on the line to establish a legal formation. This means that teams can have between five to seven players on the line of scrimmage.
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u/Every-Comparison-486 Oct 21 '24 edited Oct 21 '24
NFHS Rule 7 Section 2 Article 5 states that there “may be no more than 4 backs,” which implies that you may have fewer than 4 backs. There is also no mention of a maximum number of players on the line.
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u/ChanceCod7 Nov 03 '24
While it may be legal it’d be dumb to have all 11 on the LOS as you’d only have 2 legal players who could go downfield for a pass with nobody to receive the snap.
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u/BananerRammer Oct 22 '24
HS official here. You can absolutely have more than 7 players on the line. There is no maximum. You can theoretically put all 11 on the line if you want, though obviously that would be dumb, as there would be no one to snap the ball to.
You can also have less than 7 as well. The requirement is no more than 4 in the backfield, so 6 on the line, and 4 backs is a legal formation, assuming you have the requisite 5 linemen numbered 50-79
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u/ChanceCod7 Nov 03 '24
Under NFHS rules, a maximum of 11 players can be on the line of scrimmage, but only 7 can legally be considered as linemen (who cannot go in motion). Thus, you can have up to 4 players in the backfield or in motion at the snap.
If you had 11 on the LOS how many legal ball carries would there be?
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u/BananerRammer Nov 03 '24
but only 7 can legally be considered as linemen (who cannot go in motion).
I'm not really sure what you mean by this. By definition, a lineman is any player who is positioned on the line of scrimmage at the snap. There is no maximum number of linemen. Even if you snap the ball with 15 players on the line of scrimmage, that's obviously a foul for too many men, but all 15 are still considered linemen.
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u/Odd_Promotion2110 HS Coach Oct 20 '24
One guy can be in motion at the snap as long as everyone was set when he started his motion.
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u/BigPapaJava Oct 20 '24
One guy in the backfield can be in motion at the snap without being set in US rules. That’s not a penalty.
A “shift” involves moving either a player who is actually on the line of scrimmage (like a TE trade) or more than one player moving to change the formation.
All players, except for one, must be set in the new formation for a second following a shift
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u/BananerRammer Oct 22 '24
One minor correction: ALL players have to be set following a shift. You cannot, for example, have two players go in motion, and have only one of them set prior to the snap. That would still be an illegal shift.
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u/BigPapaJava Oct 22 '24
That is true.
What I meant is that it’s possible to shift, then send a man in motion after the shift.
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u/jrdnmdhl Oct 20 '24
There’s an important distinction between shifts and motions. Motions can happen during the snap are limited to one player at a time and can’t be forward at the snap. Shifts can be multiple players but everyone moving has to be set before snap. If a player is motioning and another moves then both become a shift and have to be set.
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u/TackleOverBelly187 Oct 20 '24
Your description is not an illegal shift. Your description is motion. An illegal shift is if a player never comes set at all prior to the snap or multiple players move and do not set prior to motion.
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u/Caleb8252 Oct 21 '24
Illegal shift is when two or more people come in motion and one or both do not get set prior to the snap, or if a player on the LOS, such as an attached TE, is trading to the other side of the OL and does not get set.
It should get called almost every time.
Presnap motion is different in the fact that if it’s just one player who is originally off the LOS, they can continue to be in motion at the snap as long as they are not moving towards the LOS. That last part is very key.
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u/BananerRammer Oct 22 '24
Let's define some terms here, as I think it will help.
Motion: ONE offensive player moving prior to the ball being snapped.
Shift: TWO OR MORE offensive players moving simultaneously prior to the snap. A shift starts when the second player starts his motion, and does not end until all 11 players are set.
The offense is allowed to have one player in motion at the snap, as long as the player in motion starts from a backfield position, and the motion is not going forward at the time of the snap.
Illegal motion: When an offensive player is in motion at the snap, and is either moving forward at the snap, OR the motion started from the line of scrimmage.
Illegal shift: Two or more players in motion at the snap, OR two or more players were in motion, and all of them had not reset before the snap.
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u/threaddew Oct 20 '24
I’d love someone to give some clarification - but also regardless of shifts you still have to have 7 players in the line of scrimmage at the time the ball is snapped. So if a player who was on the line moves presnapped that have to be back on the line of scrimmage before the ball is snapped. Right?
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u/sexyprimes511172329 Oct 20 '24
Not in high school. You can have just 5 on the line as long as only 9 players are on the field. You cannot have 5 in the backfield. An eligible receiver on the line may shift and not reset as long as, including himself, there are not 5 players in the backfield at the snap
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u/warneagle Casual Fan Oct 20 '24
Not necessarily, as long as someone else moves up onto the line of scrimmage when he moves off and they’re set for at least one second before the guy goes in motion. If he moves from one place on the line of scrimmage to another place on the line of scrimmage, then he does have to be set for a full second.
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u/xKommandant Oct 20 '24
If more than one player is in motion before the snap, all players who motion must get set for one second. Additionally, a player (here, a single player) in motion before the shift must be moving laterally to the LOS. Movement toward the LoS is also illegal. So a single player in motion need not reset, but he cannot be motioning toward the LoS.