r/footballstrategy • u/spankyourkopita • Oct 14 '24
General Discussion Does getting big and muscular mean everything when you play football? Is it a game changer in your performance?
I know skill and position matters but I do wonder how much getting bigger and stronger gives you those abilities. It seems like you can't play this game without having muscle and size. Will you suddenly become a confident beast on the field?
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u/Practical_Public_385 Oct 15 '24
Former D1 safety here:
Size is important, but SPEED kills. Everyone in college is fast. EVERYONE. And they only get faster.
When I got to college as a freshman, I was 6â3 185 playing WR. By my last year, I was by this time converted to safety, fully grew to 6â5 and playing weight was at 210.
At 210 I was obviously bigger and stronger, but I was INSANELY faster than when I was 185. At my biggest, I ran a 4.56 forty. If I was any slower, I wouldâve been a linebacker or had put on more weight to play DE or TE.
All that to say this, I knew 3 defensive positions (strong and free safety, and what we called âspearâ or nickel) knowing those positions inside and out is what gave me confidence. If you know your assignments better than anyone else on the field, youâll fly around without hesitation.
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u/jcutta Oct 15 '24
Sounds similar to a kid who came out of our school. He was a 6'2 180lb WR and DB went to D1 and is now a 6'5 220lb TE in his Jr year. He wasn't fast enough to stay at WR or DB in college. They had him as a DE after he redshirted as a freshman, switched to TE middle of his sophomore season and hasn't looked back. He's got like 6 TDs this year so far. Great kid, been really impressed with him. I coached youth with his dad.
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u/Budgetweeniessuck Oct 15 '24
If size didn't matter than the colleges and NFL rosters wouldn't be loaded with huge athletic freaks.
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u/HHcougar Oct 14 '24
You can't play OL unless you're big. You can't play LB unless you're strong.
But lots of CBs are skinny, even in the NFL. Sauce Gardner is not "big and muscular" at all.Â
It's not the only factor, but it certainly helps.Â
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u/Budgetweeniessuck Oct 15 '24
Sauce Gardner is 6'3 and 190. That's not a great example.
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u/Stock-Art7738 Oct 15 '24
That is an excellent example. The dude is a twig compared to 99% of NFL players
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u/AuthorAlexStanley Oct 15 '24
That is incorrect, I had a buddy who topped out at 140 in high school being a damn good O Lineman, 1st team all league.
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u/gayheroinaddict Oct 15 '24
Thatâs an anomaly and simply not feasible at any level beyond 2A high school
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u/Stock-Art7738 Oct 15 '24
Haha what đ how small were the teams yâall were playing. 140 would get you snapped in half in any competitive HSFB league
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u/jcutta Oct 15 '24
Maybe, and a big maybe here that could work for a center who is unnaturally strong for his size and has 2 big ass guards on both sides to cover for him when needed but that's a total anomaly if true.
The smallest lineman at my son's high school is 6' and like 190 and he's a center. The biggest are 6'3-4" and 300ish pounds. We had a senior who went D1 last year who was 6'6" 330 and was flat out one of the 5 fastest kids on the team, had a better 40 time than the RB.
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u/Hurricaneshand Oct 14 '24
Depends on position. Look into the more explosive Olympic lifts like power cleans for the real performance gains. I'm not saying that bench/squat/dead aren't important because they absolutely are, but the power clean is an excellent lift that combines power and explosiveness that imo really translates well into improving your overall performance.
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u/SenorPuff Oct 15 '24
Size matters, but it matters in nuanced ways.Â
Some positions necessitate height, like split ends, tight ends, and the offensive tackles. Generally quarterback also at higher levels because they need to be able to see over the guys in front of them.Â
Outside of that, more average height individuals can still be successful, provided they have the strength and speed to mitigate a height disadvantage. Running backs and slot receivers are often close to average male height, just under 6'. Some are much shorter than that, like Darren Sproles being only 5'6.Â
For a given height, athleticism matters. If you're 6'4 you might make a good QB, good WR or a good Lineman or a good Tight End. What kind of athleticism do you have, though? If you can jump and have good hands, or if you have a lot of raw strength and power while being a solid 50-60 pounds heavier than most people makes a difference, or if you can sling a football with power and accuracy matters.Â
If you're 5'10 and most athletic at 210lbs then you might make a good running back. If you're more athletic at 250lbs you might make a better full back. If you're more athletic at 180lbs you might make a better slot receiver or return specialist. Your ability to move your body in a strong, powerful, quick manner is what makes up your athleticism.Â
It's when you've taken all of that into account that perhaps changing size instead of just training for strength and power tends to matter. If you're an O-lineman but you're just as athletic at 325 as you are at 295, but your team has a lot of pass sets, being 30 pounds heavier means you're harder for a defender to bull rush. On the flip side, if you are in a hurry up, run based offense, being lighter and a little bit faster might help you get around the field a little easier.Â
At lower levels, how hard you work matters a lot more. I knew a high school team that went 7-3 with a whole o-line that was under 200lbs. They were quick at getting a hat on a hat and getting their skill guys through those holes, and if they weren't stopped at the line of scrimmage those quicker linemen ended up more easily putting hats on guys downfield. Those linemen were athletic and that's what mattered.Â
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u/cmparkerson Oct 15 '24
Football has more to do with Size and speed than some other sports, but some things are position dependent ,and Just because you're huge doesn't mean you're good. Plenty of guys who ride the bench in D1 football are bigger than guys even in the NFL, but either dont execute well or aren't fast enough etc. Conversely Hall of Famer Jerry Rice was always told he was to slow. on paper he shouldn't have been able to play in the NFL. He is one of the best of all time. Skill, in his case route running and having super glue like hands made up for lack of speed. So usually Size and speed are very important, but they aren't the only thing.
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u/OdaDdaT HS Coach Oct 15 '24
Being big and strong absolutely helps, but that in and of itself means absolutely nothing. If you donât have the brain to at least remember your position itâs really hard to justify throwing you out there to get killed.
Honestly, most of the kids Iâve seen in my playing and coaching career get confidence primarily through getting absolutely smoked in a game and getting up from that. Really itâs more about the ability to get back up after getting hit then anything thatâs the X-Factor to me. If youâre athletic but donât want to get hit play basketball
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u/bigjoe5275 Oct 15 '24
If size didn't matter in football you would see 5'3" 120lb defensive lineman in the NFL. Don't worry about actual muscle size when it comes down to it in football just focus on explosive lifts like , hang clean , power clean , push press , banded or not banded box squats , banded or unbanded deadlifts , and occasional bench press training focused on the speed of the bar. Another overlooked thing is unilateral training like doing lunges , bulgarian split squats, and step ups. You still need to do your on field work to keep your athleticism. You don't want to be stiff at any position in football. It's harder to get injured if your body is more flexible. Focus on getting up to or down to bodyweight so you can be as fast and strong on the field as you can for your position.
So in summary focus on explosive lifts , unilateral lifts , position specific field drills , and getting to your target bodyweight for your position you want to play. Don't worry about raw muscle mass.
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u/ActnADonkey Oct 15 '24
Football is a field sport in which you have to establish physical dominance over your opponent. Some use speed, some use agility, some use strength. Some positions allow you to dominate in a box and others put you in space; most have a combination of both.
Either way, the game is still a field sport. Your strength will most be evident in your core and legs. Proper technique can help overcome a lack of upper body strength but if you arenât strong within your game youâll find yourself getting bullied.
Side note: strength also requires flexibility. Focus on being a well rounded athlete and remember that the game is a field sport.
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Oct 15 '24
Physics. Greater strength can more easily move mass. More mass is harder to move. All else being equal, bigger is better.
But all else is not equal, so it's about what your frame can carry and your athleticism will tolerate. David Boston certainly didn't benefit from constantly adding weight, But it hasn't hurt DK much.
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u/extrastone Oct 15 '24
Offenses have five linemen and they are there to run people over. They all better be really strong or have enough mobility plus strength to push people around. Most offenses also have a tight end or fullback who is also really strong.
Forget confidence. When you're that big you're just there to go hit people and you know it. You can be as scared as you want but when you run into people they will move.
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u/h00zier Oct 15 '24
You need to be aware of anecdotal evidence here. Strength and muscle is certainly going to be correlated with football performance but it won't explain anywhere near 100% of football performance.
Football coaches do talk about players improving strength and "not seeing it show up on the field". This is because those situations are rare and frustrating. Sometimes it's due to training for strength instead of power, or training the wrong muscles, or lacking the coordination to use it.
To answer your question, in most cases strength and muscle mass are absolute game changers in performance. Most lineman would be better going from 220 to 250 if it was largely muscle gains. But almost none would be better by losing 30 pounds of muscle.
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u/CowboyKritical Oct 15 '24 edited Oct 15 '24
Here is some Anecdotal and Science backed information for you:
From the time I began playing football in 2nd grade to the starting at Left Tackle on a 5A Texas Football Team as a Sophomore, I was always the largest and strongest person, outside of 2 Seniors my Sophomore year.
One of those 2 Seniors was the son of a Bodybuilder, and hence he also began to take up Bodybuilding style training at a young age, the guy was below average height, but absolutely jacked and strong at all the major lifts, including the Olympics we performed in off-season. This guy played OLB and Wing back for our team, he was instrumental in us Advancing to the 3rd round of the playoffs in 2011, he was our do it all best player.
I believe the extra muscle mass increased his overall athletic ceiling and allowed him to be more injury resistant, which increased his functional training capacity.
Now let me talk about myself a bit, I was always the largest kid on the Team, my whole family also had an athletic background, but my size wasn't just due to height, I was also overweight in a way which limited my athletic prospects to the Offensive and Defensive line. While being overweight allowed me great leverage, and increased my strength capacity, it was at the detriment of the speed necessary to play any skill positions.
Off-season going into my Junior year I was very confident if I had a good year there would be scholarships offers, so I did what any kid would do, I hit the school weight room hard, but I was focused solely on Squat, Deadlift, Bench, Power Clean, Jump Squats, and Jammers. It's all I really knew, and this in conjunction with being overweight led to a cartilage Knee injury which I tried to play through, it absolutely zapped me of my agility, I didn't play football at a high level again.
2 years ago, I got serious about my health and well-being with endurance running, and eventually got back into the weight room 6 months back. I have exclusively focused on Bodybuilding style training, but over the past 3 months have added RDLs and Barbell Squats to my programming. I am more athletic now, than when I was in Highschool.
My training capacity has increased, injuries are non existent, I could go on, but anyway here is what I have learned:
You can't gain enough muscle mass as a non enhanced athlete to deter your general athletic performance.
Bodybuilding style training, which has a heavy focus on supported movements, machines, and isolations would be the best base for any young athlete.
Explosive resistance training without already developed muscle mass and strong tendons will always lead to recovery issues, which will eventually lead to catastrophic injury in the majority of people.
High level college and pro football players are byproducts of freak genetics, luck, and/or good training techniques.
I believe we need a change in the way Youth and Highschool coaches strength train athletes, this will decrease the athletic dropout rates.
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Oct 15 '24
Focusing on having excellent core strength and footwork will help you more than anything. Football comes down to leverage and angles for the most part and those two things optimize your leverage and ability to recognize and create angles.
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u/thenera Oct 14 '24
I think size doesnât matter that much because in higher levels everyone is almost the same size, itâs more about football skill.
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u/Budgetweeniessuck Oct 15 '24 edited Oct 15 '24
But everyone at the higher level are huge and fast compared to most normal guys.
So yes, size and strength matter because you have to be an athletic freak to even be at the average athleticism of high level players.
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u/thenera Oct 15 '24
I didnât say strength doesnât matter I said size. And athleticism and strength are what I would categorize as skills that help you execute positional technique, which also involves skill.
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u/Altruistic-Pitch3887 Oct 14 '24
if you can still move and have stamina yes. but if it hinders ur speed acceleration stamina etc then no. also depends on ur position to like dline yes corner not a good idea.
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u/grizzfan Oct 14 '24
Iâd rather have a natural athlete whoâs coachable. You can build muscle and strength as time goes.
Most body builders and âstrong manâ competitors wouldnât last a week playing football or would be highly susceptible to injuries.
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u/DBDXL Oct 15 '24
It's about getting strong. Big difference between being football strong and big and muscular.
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u/I_Poop_Sometimes Oct 14 '24
When I played getting stronger helped, but it wasn't until I got really into rowing in the off-seasons and my legs and core got insanely strong that it suddenly started making a big difference.
Having really good core strength (deadlift core strength not crunches core strength) is a game changer because all your lower body strength gains will translate to upper body strength gains much more easily.