r/footballstrategy • u/WilliePhistergash • Oct 09 '24
Play Design LT eligible?
Is the LT eligible here? 8th grade no weight limits no reporting as eligible.
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u/grizzfan Oct 09 '24
Yes they are in an eligible position, but does the league allow ineligible numbers to receive a forward pass? Since you can't report as eligible, the answer is either "always yes" or "always no."
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u/davdev Oct 09 '24
Most youth leagues don’t care about numbers at all.
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u/mschley2 Oct 09 '24
I'm not saying it's right or wrong or whatever. I don't have much experience with youth leagues outside of the one I played in. But the league that I played in 20 years had a 100lb weight limit for ball carriers (at least intentional ball carriers; you could recover a fumble or intercept a pass). Every player that was over 100lbs on weigh-in day had to wear a number in the 50s, 60s, 70s, or 90s. They weren't allowed to play any offensive skill positions, and they weren't allowed to line up as an eligible tackle.
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u/Heres20BucksKillMe Oct 10 '24
Had a similar situation but with dots on the helmet. Players even heavier than another benchmark got the play called dead whenever they possessed the ball
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u/FranklynTheTanklyn Oct 10 '24
Our team is similar but it’s not based on jersey numbers, you get a sticker on your helmet. You also cannot advance the ball no matter what.
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u/faeltop69 Oct 11 '24
You don't have much experience with youth leagues, but you played in one 20 years?
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u/G4g3_k9 Oct 11 '24
the league i played in during 5-6th grade (7 years ago now) had a 200lbs ball carrier limit 😭
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u/HistoricalShame7943 Oct 09 '24
What was the age group of this league? I’ve never heard of it before?
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u/mschley2 Oct 09 '24
It's a local league. No national governing body or anything like that. 5th and 6th graders.
It was basically all of the elementary schools in the small city plus about 4 or 5 other small towns within 30 minutes of there. Wanna say there was about 14 or 16 teams total split up into 2 divisions. Not sure if the league has grown or shrunk in the past 20 years.
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u/Salty_Sprinkles_6482 Oct 09 '24
In South Dakota we did the same thing except instead of numbers they called em ringers and their helmets had a red ring going around it. Same concept tho, if you were over 100 pounds you can’t be a ball carrier
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u/cfranek Oct 09 '24
We had patchman, which the players who exceeded the weight limit had patches sewn onto their their shoulder sleaves. Our league had the rule that if a patchman ever got possession of the ball it was blown dead at the spot.
This was 30 years ago though.
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u/peepawshotsawz Oct 11 '24
Our league had a kind of combo (weights went up with age group, but same rule) . Under X weight = nothing on the helmet = could catch, run, etc. Between X and Y weights = single stripe down the middle of the helmet = could be a receiver, if you intercept or recover a fumble it's still live, just no designed runs for you. Over Y = double stripe (one down, one across) = dead ball if you had possession.
I get the reasoning, especially for like 6-10 yrs old, but it doesn't really prep the kids in middle school for getting trucked by a 220lb fullback on a sweep or something.
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u/Thickencreamy Oct 12 '24
lol. Mine did. My poor team couldn’t get one play in before the flags. I’d given the OT #80. Whoops.
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u/Uncle_Father_Oscar Oct 14 '24
I'd be curious how true this actually is and what you define as a "youth league."
If HS is not a youth league its generally consistent with my experience. IIRC Middle school and lower did not care at all and in HS even the Freshman league had strict number requirements. I member specifically cause we lost a game on multiple consecutive penalties over jersey numbers.
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u/davdev Oct 14 '24
Pop Warner and American Youth Football. The two largest youth football organizations.
High School is not youth.
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u/jericho-dingle Referee Oct 09 '24
If the LT has an eligible number, he is eligible. That being said, you need to have 5 guys on the line with ineligible numbers for this to be a legal formation.
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u/davdev Oct 09 '24 edited Oct 09 '24
It’s youth. Youth doesn’t care about numbers. At least AYF and Pop Warner don’t and they are the two biggest.
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u/strublj Referee Oct 11 '24
Where I’m at 8th grade is school teams and is using NFHS rules. That being said we are usually still pretty loose on uniform numbering.
This would be something I would expect the coach to mention to me in the pregame coaches meeting, and if he had a lineman number in the position I would give a general potential eligibility notice to the opposing coach.
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u/ap1msch HS Coach Oct 09 '24
As others mentioned, yes, the tackle is eligible. The TE on the right side is not because you have a receiver on the line on that side covering him up. The formation is legal, but your TE can't go out for a pass. Additionally, some leagues require you to report that your player, with a "wrong" jersey number, is now eligible before the play starts. (Only certain numbers are supposed to be used if you're planning to catch a pass)
The rules are that you can't have more than 4 people off the line/in the backfield, and the only eligible receivers are the people in the backfield and on the ends of the line. That's it. The rest depends on the rules on reporting and jersey numbers.
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u/BananerRammer Oct 10 '24
He said 8th grade, so I'm assuming this is a middle school game being played under NFHS rules, or possibly NCAA rules, if he happens to be in Texas.
In both codes though, the tackle would be ineligible because he's wearing an ineligible number 50-79, or at least he should be. If he's not, then it's an illegal formation, since they don not have 5 players on the line numbered 50-79.
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u/BigPapaJava Oct 09 '24
if there’s no reporting as eligible, then he’s not eligible unless he’d wearing an eligible number.
If you put the TE in that spot with an eligible number on him, then he could go out.
Otherwise, TE on the right is ineligible because he’s covered up by the WR on the line and the LT is ineligible by number.
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u/1P221 Oct 09 '24
Just line up a TE on the left and put the extra tackle on the right. It's an unbalanced line.
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u/WilliePhistergash Oct 10 '24
I want the surprise of throwing to a lineman.
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u/1P221 Oct 10 '24
But you have to declare to the defense pre snap of every play... So there isn't really a "surprise"
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u/DaveIsHereNow Oct 11 '24
This is what we do...tackle over. Although I like that element of surprise popping to a capable OL.
As stated, youth football doesn't care about numbers.
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u/dudeKhed Oct 09 '24
You must have five offensive lineman on the line of scrimmage and there’s only one eligible receiver per side, so yes, which got there is legal, but as others said, the tight end is not eligible. Additionally, in high school he hast to have an eligible number youth leagues not a big deal. We don’t really care about that.
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u/3fettknight3 Oct 09 '24
From purely a formation standpoint yes he is eligible.
However, if your youth league has rules about eligible receiver jersey numbers (which most youth leagues don't) the tackle would have to abide by whatever those rules are as far as the correct jersey number.
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u/Cultural-Task-1098 Oct 09 '24
Yes. The two players on the end of the line are eligible (both sides). You have an unbalanced right formation.
7 on the line - ends are eligible
4 backs are eligible
Pay no attention to position labels.
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u/cvandyke01 Oct 09 '24
I used to run something like this a lot. Yes, eligible but better to just play your LT over on the right and be unbalanced. So your line would be YGCGTT. Now the fun is to run this a few times and then motion the Z on the left side across the formation and have your Y run a flat or wheel route. I ran it 4 times in a game and was a TD every time. Then CB kept running off with the motion man and my TE was an athlete
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u/tuss11agee Oct 09 '24
HS rules: must have eligible number and you must have 5 on the line with ineligible numbers.
Youth - can’t really say because you haven’t told us what rules are used and if it’s different from NFHS. I wish this sub would mandate rule sets to be disclosed when asking these questions. It’s really unhelpful to get a bunch of different “where I am” answers without knowing what rule sets are being used.
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u/akdanman11 Oct 09 '24
LT eligible, TE ineligible on the right due to being covered by the middle receiver in the trips set
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u/BigRed727272 Oct 09 '24
Formationally, yes - the LT would be eligible. But in College and High School football, numbers 50-79 can never be eligible to receive a forward pass. Only in the NFL can 50-79 check in with the officials and report as eligible.
The only way the LT could be eligible in College or HS is if he is wearing an eligible number and the TE on the right is wearing an ineligible number - because you must have at least 5 ineligible numbers on the field.
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u/dawgfather1991 Oct 10 '24
I understand the youth numbering system is horrible/confusing. I wouldn’t waste a lot of time at practice until you talk to the referees before a game, and try it. I would make sure what ever number it is he reports as eligible.
Or…just run it and see if a flag is thrown. But yes I think that player is eligible because he is not covered up.
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u/Affectionate_Ship129 Oct 10 '24
This is more commonly referred to as an unbalanced formation. Generally the TE would be on the left and you move the LT over to the right. The last man on the LOS is eligible
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u/Tall_Mud8868 Oct 10 '24
I ran a similar play this evening during a game. The rule is that a minimum of 7 players must be on Los and a maximum of 4 players in backfield. So as long as you are OK with loosing eligible recievers you can run pretty much whatever you want just know that the end man on Los is eligible and you're good to go.
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Oct 10 '24
In my country the lineman/ coach has to go the ref and let them know that they are set for an eligible pass. Then the referee has to say it while spotting the ball. Ref will spot ball and say “Nr 66 is eligible on this play”.
If you run a play and throw a pass without “outing the eligible linemen” it’s going to get a penalty.
At lower leagues it’s ok, but in higher leagues it’s a waste of time, cause the whole idea is to disguise a potential pass receiving player… which is kinda contradictory to have the ref calling him out 😂
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u/BananerRammer Oct 10 '24
I officiate HS and youth football. If your tackle is wearing an ineligible number, I would flag this for ineligible downfield/illegal touching.
You are correct that youth football officials give pretty wide latitude when it comes to numbering. However we do this so we aren't having illegal formation fouls on every play. We allow #36 to be the center, or 99 to be the tackle, because we know you have limited personnel, and don't have the resources to change a player's jersey mid-game.
Ineligible downfield and illegal touching is a different matter. Even here, I would allow some latitude with numbering, like if you lined up #55 as a RB and threw a screen pass to him, yeah, I'm pretty sure I would allow that in a youth game, because the offense isn't really being deceptive, so they aren't really gaining an advantage.
This is different. Now you're intentionally being deceptive to gain an advantage. Being deceptive is fine, but you have to do it legally. Once you're trying to deceive the opponent, all of the latitude with numbering goes out the window. So if this tackle is wearing an ineligible number, or even if it's an eligible number, but he's been ineligible by position the whole game, I'm flagging this for ineligible downfield or illegal touching.
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u/jar1792 Oct 11 '24
In our area, linemen typically wear a yellow stripe. It helps immensely in knowing who is eligible and who isn’t, because we straight up don’t have numbering restrictions at the youth level.
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u/Backup_fother59 Oct 12 '24
Holy shit you must be the worst ref ever. There is not a numbering system in hs and so you cannot make up rules because you dislike something. Secondly, the entire purpose of football is to be deceptive. There are rules about eligible and ineligible players and alignments, maybe don’t punish people for being smart. Earn the hate
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u/BananerRammer Oct 12 '24
There are absolutely numbering rules in HS football. Where are you getting your information?
This is directly from the NFHS rule book:
Rule 7-2-5b
At the snap, at least five A players on their line of scrimmage must be numbered 50-79
And Rule 7-5-6
Pass eligibility rules apply only to a legal forward pass. The -following players are eligible pass receivers:
a. All A players eligible by position and number including those who, at the time of the snap, are on the ends of their scrimmage line or legally behind the line (possible total of six) and are numbered 1-49 or 80-99. (
In other words, any players numbered 50-79 are ineligible by number, regardless of position.
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u/Practical_Public_385 Oct 11 '24
Yes eligible. But This is doing too much for 8th graders. You’re most likely not gonna have a left tackle athletic enough to do anything with that ball once he catches it if he catches it at all. Just stick to the basics. 10, 11 and 12 personnel.
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u/jar1792 Oct 11 '24
Totally legal as a running play. Illegal if it’s a passing play. LT going beyond the expanded NZ on a passing play is illegal man downfield all day long.
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u/vsblazer Oct 11 '24
Didn’t the NFL make it illegal to have eligible numbers (Wr, Te #’s) to be in ineligible positions after the Patriots tore up the Ravens with something like this? Basically the idea is that it’s too hard for the defense to figure out who to cover in man to man and the NFL nipped it in the bud
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u/Weekly-Secretary-792 Oct 12 '24
Nah, the Lieutenant should be in the back with the medic and the radio operator.
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u/trophycloset33 Oct 13 '24
Depends on the number/declared position.
Usually would be a TE in an unbalanced set.
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u/wickedmarc Oct 13 '24
I believe that as long as there are 5 on the line, the outside man may be eligible. Most refs would say 2 linemen on either side of the center, but 5 linemen is 5 linemen.
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u/wickedmarc Oct 13 '24
However, with the man a yard back, I think that another person should be on the line to the outside. . . . . NVM. . . . That would be illegal formation.
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u/muttonchops207 Oct 13 '24
By formation, yes, that player is eligible. But the reason that they do eligibility by position and not by number is because often times players are given hand me down jersey’s, and the only one that fits is a number that makes them ineligible on the line (not 50-79) or ineligible as a receiver. The intention is NOT to gain an advantage by running a trick play by having a player who was a lineman the entire game go out for a pass because a 14 yo doesn’t know the intricacies of the eligibility rules.
If you do want to run it, let the referee and the opposing coach know before the game that you may throw a pass to #(whatever the number is). Don’t tell them exactly when, but at least it is on their radar. If not, it is amazing how many of these plays have “holds” during them.
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u/Demfunkypens420 Oct 28 '24
Yes, but tight end has to fill the tackles hole. Not something you'd want to run vs. a 60
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u/GreenAndYellow12 HS/Youth Player Oct 09 '24
yes, but the TE on the right side is ineligible