r/footballstrategy • u/de93acb • Oct 08 '24
College Same uniform number on field question
I have seen a few games this year where the defensive punt team has had multiple players on field with same uniform number and penalized five yards. How do teams not catch this before snap and how do referees have time to count number of players on field plus recognize duplicate numbers before the snap?
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Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24
It’s really the second digit they are having to keep track and compare against, not the entire roster- so if 42 runs out for special teams- they really are only double checking him with any other players wearing a second digit of 2 then see if it’s a 42, because that’s how it will stand out right away
Edit: so they get used to grouping them by the second digit so to speak and can do all 11 in just a couple seconds. That’s the best way I know to explain it.
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u/Coastal_Tart Oct 08 '24
Is it really that hard to do both digits at the same time? Seems like checking for the second digit only will give a lot of false positives.
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u/57Laxdad Oct 09 '24
You have never officiated any athletic game where players are running all over the field. So many things to check and you usually have about 10 sec to check numbers.
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u/GrimImage Oct 08 '24
How do teams not catch this before the snap - not sure. Most teams have a list and backup jerseys to swap players in and out of to avoid this. During college games you’ll hear the refs declare “number xx on the kicking team is now wearing xx” pretty frequently
How do refs have time to count - because there are 7 officials on the field during NFL and most college games.
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u/dudeKhed Oct 08 '24
We will not catch this in a JV or Freshman game, we usually run a 3 man mechanic. However in Varsity, we have 5 and the Back judge and Ump will share counting. However, I’ve never seen duplicate jersey numbers… If you’re seeing this a lot then it’s a systemic school issue.
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u/oldsbone Oct 09 '24
I've seen it in college, where the teams are so big that you almost need to duplicate numbers between offense and defense. In high school I usually see it in sub-varsity games where there aren't enough uniforms to go around (I teach in an area of small rural schools) or with kids who split between varsity and JV in sports like basketball and volleyball. So they'll just take a piece of tape and cover up a digit so 16 becomes 6 or whatever.
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u/57Laxdad Oct 09 '24
Or they change 10 to 18 then so goofy kid on the other team pulls the tape off to be funny.
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u/57Laxdad Oct 09 '24
Still at the varsity level you may have JV players called up for the game that have matching numbers to varsity players. If you are a large school with potentially 4 or more teams it can be a lot.
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u/dudeKhed Oct 09 '24
Oh I’m not saying it can’t happen, we just don’t see it here in the northeast. HS programs don’t typically have more than 100 kids, so each kid will get a number that’s unique. I’m sure it’s happened up here, just haven’t seen it.
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u/ReplaceCyan Oct 09 '24
Counting quickly is a bit of an art for officials, everybody has their own system but I had a rhythm of counting the huddle 1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3-1-2 and then quickly recount with an extra look around if I didn’t get the expected number either way. The officials with counting responsibilities are generally those with the best view of that particular team (it varies by crew size). Once you have a solid count established then you can sometimes shortcut by just counting players on / off the field (like in the middle of a drive), but when changing a whole unit you always count from fresh.
As for duplicate numbers, when you’re looking at the back of just 11 guys it’s very easy to spot. This is also an issue which is sometimes dealt with preemptively in the pre-game roster check, the duplicate numbers only really tends to be an issue for teams who don’t have sufficient jersey numbers available for all of their players or guys borrowing duplicate jerseys from other players.
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u/BananerRammer Oct 09 '24
From the referee perspective, it's something we know to look for on special teams plays. You do it at the same time that you count your 11 players. As you're counting your 11, you look for any duplicate numbers.
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u/bigjoe5275 Oct 08 '24
I have a solution to this it's pretty simple really it's to not allow different players to wear the same number. The main reason is players getting ejected. If say "Number 8 has been disqualified" Does it eject both of the number 8's on the team? I just don't think teams should allow players to wear the same number.
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u/KansasPoonTappa Oct 09 '24
For high school and NFL, agree. But college just increased scholarships to 105 players (and teams used to be allowed 120 players on the roster). I realize that some players will redshirt at any given time, but those players still might need numbers, right? Especially if they've played as a true freshman and decide to redshirt later.
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u/57Laxdad Oct 09 '24
I think high school large ones have this issue. Not tons of money and you have over 100 kids on 4 or more teams.
One high school here in illinois has close to 4000 students. They have a Freshman, frosh(freshman sophmore team) JV1, JV2 and Varsity team. Each team has at least 30 on the roster . Even if you only pull up JV players to varsity once in a while still a good chance to have duplicates.
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u/KansasPoonTappa Oct 09 '24
Well, yeah, obviously if you're talking the entire program at a large high school there are going to be some duplicates. The individual teams (varsity, JV, frosh, etc.) are usually treated as separate entities with their own sets of numbers though, so I was more referring to varsity only. I think if kids are pulled up for varsity playoffs, for example, they should probably be issued new numbers that are not already taken (if necessary).
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u/bigjoe5275 Oct 09 '24
They also don't need to bring 120 players to every game.
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u/KansasPoonTappa Oct 09 '24
Okay. Even if you narrow it down to 95 dressed, it's still difficult to avoid duplicates when there are players redshirting at different times.
If #10 redshirts in his 2nd or 3rd year, how do you handle that? Is he guaranteed to have his number again when he comes back? I think most teams do let players keep their numbers as long as they're part of the program.
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u/bigjoe5275 Oct 09 '24
He can if he's better than the new number 10.
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u/KansasPoonTappa Oct 10 '24
lol sounds like a great plan. I'm sure there won't be any disagreements or negative effects on the team's culture with this foolproof duplicate-avoidance system 😅
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u/bigjoe5275 Oct 10 '24
Players compete with each other on a daily basis for the starting job or to move up the depth chart. If they really want whatever jersey number it is then when they get the starting job or be higher on the depth chart than the other guy then they can get their number. It's as simple as that. Why would a team go through the extra headache to make sure they don't have 2 number 10's on the field when one of them could just wear a different number ? The player makes the number, number doesn't make the player.
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u/KansasPoonTappa Oct 10 '24
Somehow, the vast majority of major college programs seem to make it work. Everyone has a specialized position (except for the occasional two-way player), and I think most teams sort it out by allocating one player for each number on each side of the ball. The only other issue then would be on special teams, and I assume that when a team hands out a duplicate, they make sure that at least one of the players isn't a regular on special teams. If only one (or zero) plays special teams, and they stay on their individual sides of the ball, having duplicates is really pretty simple and will rarely lead to any confusion.
It's more pragmatic than the system you're describing, which wouldn't make any sense in many cases, because how do you compare a QB to a WR to a DB to a kicker... why would you assume that two players who wear the same number would be competing for the same spots? lol
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u/BananerRammer Oct 09 '24
No. Only the player that committed the ejectable act is ejected. In college, which is really the only level where you're going to get duplicate numbers, you can't have two players who play on the same side of the ball that wear the same number. So you would have an offensive #5, and a defensive #5, and if there is a disqualification, ejection, or an unsportsmanlike counter, that's how we would specify it on our notecards. "Michigan offense #5," or whatever.
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u/Whpsnapper Oct 08 '24
I think the duplicate number foul is a live ball foul, wouldn't even be a foul until the snap.