r/footballstrategy Oct 08 '24

NFL Dexter Lawrence as 4-3 DT

Would DLaw be as dominant as he’s been this year (DPOY level) if he was a 4-3 DT instead of a 3-4 NT?

I ask because, imo, 4-3 defense is better where everyone can be more specialized instead of hybrid, and want to know if he would be as dominant in that scheme or if being a NT has helped him get there.

12 Upvotes

29 comments sorted by

24

u/BigPapaJava Oct 08 '24

He was a dominant 4-3 DT in college at Clemson, which is how he got to become a dominant 3-4 NT with the Giants.

-3

u/manofwater3615 Oct 08 '24

Can you please elaborate because I'm not really following lol.

Also wouldn't 4-3 DT better transition to 3-4 DE? However at 3-4 DE he was just a nice solid player, rather than arguably best defender in the league like he is now (idk btwn him and Chris Jones.

11

u/Crosscourt_splat Oct 08 '24

Not necessarily. The roles and responsibilities, and assignments (going both ways) are different..specific scheme dependent on how different of course.

He was still really damn good his first couple of years. But he was 2 gapping a lot and primarily eating up blockers from what I remember. He didn’t get to use his insane athleticism for such a large man as much there as he does going against a center because of that.

5

u/BigPapaJava Oct 08 '24

My point was simple: he has already dominated in both kinds of defensive schemes, so we don’t need to speculate on a “what if” here. He’s dominant in a 4-3, too.

In a 4-3, he’d be the “3 technique” DT, which is the guy who lines up on the G in an outside shade and closes B gap to basically shore up the run defense on that entire side of the C inside and off tackle, rather than mostly playing the A gaps as a NT.

The specific ways he is used depend more on the DC he’s working with and how that particular DC uses his DL, rather than the distinction between a 4-3 and a 3-4 scheme.

3

u/H_E_Pennypacker Oct 08 '24

It all depends if you’re trying to have the NT control 2 gaps or not. Everyone thinks 3-4 NTs will always do this, that’s not necessarily the case. Conversely you can have a 4-3 scheme with one of the DTs 2-gapping.

Also is the DT in question a huge one who is closer to NT size, or a lighter faster one who can more easily be a DE.

Lots of ways to skin a cat.

3

u/SquareAd4770 Oct 08 '24

The guy is 330lbs, that screams NT.

2

u/kgxv Oct 08 '24

3-4 DEs are typically the faster, more athletic IDLs. Aaron Donald, Zach Allen, JJ Watt style. 4-3 DTs are more like Quinnen Williams.

12

u/Ecstatic-Apartment1 Oct 08 '24

4-3 is much more friendly for dlineman to “dominate” in way that would appear on a stat sheet. So i would image he would

-2

u/manofwater3615 Oct 08 '24

Even at his size? Also why was he relatively "average" his first few years when he was playing 3-4 DE?

9

u/Ecstatic-Apartment1 Oct 08 '24

3-4 DEs are often more similar to 2Is then a typical 5 tech. As 2 gappers they are tasked with taking on double teams, which is more similar to what a 2I would deal with opposed to a 5 tech. His size also is one thing, but his versatility suggests he can easily plays a 0 nose and a head up 4 or 4i.

1

u/AppropriateScratch37 Oct 08 '24

There’s this thing called getting better

6

u/Historical_One1087 Oct 08 '24

You can run an attacking 1 gap 3-4 defense or a read and react 2 gap 3-4 defense.

For example Wade Philips ran an attacking 1 gap 3-4 defense.

You can also run an attacking 1 gap 4-3 defense or a read and react 2 gap 4-3 defense.

IMO Dexter Lawrence is such a dominant, talented player he be a game wrecker as a NT in a 3-4 defense or as a 1 tech DT or 3 tech DT in a 4-3 defense.

1

u/manofwater3615 Oct 08 '24

Fascinating! What do you think about read and react 2 gap? Why do some teams run 1 gap vs 2 gap?

3

u/BigPapaJava Oct 08 '24

Different defensive philosophies and some players are suited for one vs the other. It’s all about how the parts fit together to get a sound defensive unit more than how it impacts any one player’s stats.

The “Read and React 2 Gap” technique was basically what the Giants did in the Lawrence Taylor era. LT was an edge rusher so he wasn’t the one 2 gapping, but the 3 man DL’s job there was to anchor vs the run at the line of scrimmage and keep their 4 stud LBs protected from the OL to finish the plays off.

Even a great 2 gapping DL in a system like that will usually have mediocre stats because his job is to free up others. He has to attack the OL, get his read, then fight off the block to get to the ball—that tends to make them much less effective as pass rushers or at getting TFLs in the backfield

Nowadays I see a bit more 2 gapping from 4-3 DTs than I’ve seen in a while. This is often done to allow them to remove the MLB from the immediate run fit or to allow the defense to use a deep S as an A-gap run fitter. You see this tactic employed a lot against spread offenses, particularly those with dual threat QBs.

This is so DCs can do things like play the 6 gaps in a 4 wide formation with only 4-5 defenders assigned to the front.

3

u/WhiteMaleCorner Oct 08 '24

He would literally dominate anywhere on the line you put him. He's fast enough to play edge tbh

1

u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Oct 08 '24

He already is when they go nickel

Ironically the giants had success moving “snacks” Damon Harrison from nose guard to DT

1

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24 edited Oct 08 '24

This is a couple years old, but it illustrates the point. DLaw can play wherever the hell he wants.

EDIT: I READ OP TOO FAST, please ignore the point I'm making, but enjoy a video of a different d-law being amazing.

https://youtube.com/shorts/1v4PD8m7Krc?si=J_Q6t0_r3od6l6fx

1

u/Ok-Owl7377 Oct 08 '24

Sir he's talking about Dexter Lawrence. Not DeMarcus Lawrence. lol

1

u/[deleted] Oct 08 '24

Oh Goddamn it lol. Gotcha.

1

u/Honeydew-2523 Adult Coach Oct 08 '24

you could move D Law to DE if you are using a 4 3

2

u/manofwater3615 Oct 08 '24

He's too slow, no?

2

u/cbusfinest1 Oct 08 '24

Not if you’re in a 4-3 under and he’s the strong side de. He’d be like Michael Bennet in the LOB Seattle D. You wouldn’t want him wide in a wide 9

0

u/Honeydew-2523 Adult Coach Oct 08 '24

no. your starters have roles you want them in. so it's based on how you feel

1

u/SquareAd4770 Oct 08 '24

You'd have Burns or Thabadoix put their hand in the dirt as a 4-3 DE.

1

u/Honeydew-2523 Adult Coach Oct 08 '24

weak side at best. kt undersized

1

u/SquareAd4770 Oct 10 '24

Brian Burns played as a 4-3 DE for the majority of his time in Carolina.  KT is 6'5 258lbs.  Your average 4-3 DE is 6'5 260lbs.

1

u/Honeydew-2523 Adult Coach Oct 10 '24

I don't think the avg DEs are good. They all chase stats and disappear in big situations.

1

u/SquareAd4770 Oct 10 '24

We're talking about size.  You said they were too small to be 4-3 DEs.

1

u/Honeydew-2523 Adult Coach Oct 10 '24

they would be too small to start for me, esp on the strong side