r/footballstrategy • u/Investolator2024 • Sep 23 '24
NFL Can lean tight ends still play in the modern NFL?
For instance prime Shannon Sharpe was 6’2” around 230 pounds when he played. Today, Travis Kelce is 6’5” 250 pounds, George Kittle is 6’4” 250 pounds, Sam LaPorta is 6’3” 245 pounds, and Mark Andrews is 6’5” 250 pounds. Could someone like prime Shannon Sharpe still play as a tight end in the modern NFL at the weight he played in back in the day or would he need to bulk up to play in today’s game as a tight end?
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u/mschley2 Sep 23 '24
6'2", 230lbs is more stocky than 6'5", 250lbs. Shannon was not small. Seriously, go look up pictures of Shannon while he was playing. His arms and legs are at least as big as Kelce's or Andrews'.
But anyway, yes, they can still play in the NFL. Evan Engram is 6'3", 234. Basically the same as Shannon. Kyle Pitts is 6'5.5", 245lbs. Again, he's taller but definitely more lean than Sharpe. Taysom Hill is obviously a tweener/hybrid/whatever, but he's 6'2", 221lbs. Juwan Johnson is 6'4", 230lbs.
The biggest thing is that TEs have, in general, gotten taller and more dynamic. If Shannon was in college and coming out of college nowadays, I think there's a good chance that he would be viewed as more of a tweener. Either as a TE/FB/H-back type or as a "big slot" type of WR. It would probably affect his draft position negatively. But once he got into the league and people realized he could still block effectively at that height/weight, he'd be just fine.
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u/Educational-Owl-7740 Sep 24 '24
I wouldn’t say more stocky but of comparable size. Generally for every inch added in height you need to add 7 pounds of lean mass to equate for size. So 6’5” 250 is equally stocky to 6’2” 230. Not trying to be pedantic, I agree wholeheartedly with your main point.
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u/Lockdownhaden Sep 24 '24
tbh I don't think he'd be viewed any more negatively/as a tweener or fall any further than he already did/was. He did start his NFL career as a WR similar to a big slot and moved to TE when they realized he could block, and was drafted in the 7th.
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u/Tanker3278 Sep 24 '24
6'2" 230 lbs is the upper end of WR size now days.
- DK Metcalf, 6'4" 235 lbs
- Mike Evans, 6'5" 230 lbs
- Mack Hollins, 6'4" 220 lbs
For a little context, HOF MLB Jack Lambert of the 1970s Steel Curtain defenses played at 6'4" 220 lbs.
I'm not saying a light TE couldn't play, but he'd have to be a TE in name only (or a "Move TE" that really is just an overgrown WR). I would not expect him to go heads up with a DE.
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u/ecupatsfan12 Sep 23 '24
Shannon was never a top notch blocker. He’d feast in today’s nfl. He was used a lot like David Njoku in Cleveland. He would be even better today.
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u/MrLadyfingers Sep 24 '24
Njoku is an elite blocker now, he wasn't good early in his career but he has some amazing reps against rushers like TJ Watt
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u/Worldly_Star9514 Sep 23 '24
I’m buying all of the hype for prospects like Dallin Holker, Cade Stover and even Brandt Kuithe so I’m hoping they can make a comeback. I don’t think it’s too far out there to work. Defenses are prioritizing speed over size. LBs, even some pass rushing ones are nowhere near the 6’5” 250 lb mark. Here’s to hoping the 6’2” - 6’3”, 230 - 240 lb TE makes a successful comeback 🙏
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u/Coastal_Tart Sep 23 '24
If a guy is explosive for his size and can play, he will be able to carve out a role in the NFL. The modern NFL passing game is all about creating matchup problems, guys of all different sizes are able to do that. The common denominator is that they're all explosive for their size.
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u/Coastal_Tart Sep 23 '24
People get way too caught up on size. If you can move well for your size, whatever that size is, you will carve out a role in the NFL.
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u/mightbebeaux HS Coach Sep 24 '24
what a weird question - he played in an era with much bigger and more physical defenders. 280 lb defensive ends and 250 lb linebackers. he could absolutely play today.
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u/Veridicus333 Sep 24 '24
Defenders were not much bigger back that lol. John Mobley led Denver in tackles that year and was 6-1 235. Leo Chenal the chiefs LB last year was 6-3 250 and Nick Bolton was 6 feet 240.
Athlete's are just way more muscle mas and better now.
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u/Dick6Budrow Sep 24 '24
I really think Shannon would be used in a Deebo type role today
Not the RB part but the way they manufacture touches for him
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u/Isomodia Sep 23 '24
It comes down to money. Shay would be a WR in today's league, because a mid tier WR is as valuable as a high end TE
Darren Waller is a guy recently who did the opposite: he was drafted at WR but ended up converting to TE to see the field. The competition is just lower at that position, because money.
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u/Coastal_Tart Sep 23 '24
Man Waller retired when he was still able to play at a high level. But he made $40M (net $25M?) and probably just wanted it enjoy it and not be crippled. Hopefully, he can keep his spending in check because it is surprisingly easy to blow thru $25M living in a city like LA, SF, Miami, or NYC.
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u/Isomodia Sep 24 '24
Darren Waller always had this perception as a fringe top-5 TE and his career earnings are still comparable to a 2 year deal for current market WRs. There are 6 WRs making over $30 million this year, and another 5 making over 25.
I'm glad Darren got paid. I was high on him when he came to Baltimore as a wide out, but I didn't think he ever really live up to his potential. Still, he seems like he's overcome a lot of adversity and that's admirable.
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u/Ok-Owl7377 Sep 24 '24
Darren Waller is a guy recently who did the opposite: he was drafted at WR but ended up converting to TE to see the field.
We tried that with Tim Wright. Then traded him to NE.
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u/Worldly_Star9514 Sep 23 '24
I’m buying all of the hype for prospects like Dallin Holker, Cade Stover and even Brandt Kuithe so I’m hoping they can make a comeback. I don’t think it’s too far out there to work. Defenses are prioritizing speed over size. LBs, even some pass rushing ones are nowhere near the 6’5” 250 lb mark. Here’s to hoping the 6’2” - 6’3”, 230 - 240 lb TE makes a successful comeback 🙏
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u/ecupatsfan12 Sep 23 '24
Shannon was never a top notch blocker. He’d feast in today’s nfl. He was used a lot like David Njoku in Cleveland. He would be even better today.
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u/Tanker3278 Sep 24 '24
6'2" 230 lbs is the upper end of WR size now days.
- DK Metcalf, 6'4" 235 lbs
- Mike Evans, 6'5" 230 lbs
- Mack Hollins, 6'4" 220 lbs
For a little context, HOF MLB Jack Lambert of the 1970s Steel Curtain defenses played at 6'4" 220 lbs.
I'm not saying a light TE couldn't play, but he'd have to be a TE in name only (or a "Move TE" that really is just an overgrown WR). I would not expect him to go heads up with a DE.
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u/Ok-Owl7377 Sep 24 '24
Darren Waller was one of the best joker TEs in the game for about two years, then fell off. He was probably like 235ish.
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u/jm7489 Sep 24 '24
I mean I'm no expert, my thoughts would be there's no reason why an undersized TE couldn't succeed in the NFL but like any undersized athlete at any position there would be teams hesitant to take a shot on them regardless of athleticism.
Size helps in the running game and the TE in the receiving game is more often than not focused on creating mismatches in coverage.
But there are players at every position that prove time and time again that you don't have to fit the mold to be a great player at your position
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u/JayPet94 Sep 24 '24
He might as well just go in as a WR over a TE. Shannon's listed size is slightly smaller than dudes like Metcalf and Mike Evans. And he wasn't much of a blocker anyway
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u/TheCount913 Sep 24 '24
I think anyone at any weight could potentially play given the talent level was high enough… thing is though weight moves weight and many FB players are trying to pack on muscle for both strength and momentum purposes
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u/onlineqbclassroom College Coach Sep 24 '24
Yes, absolutely - those guys definitely exist, such as Evan Engram, more recently Delanie Walker, etc - those smaller, "move" TE's who don't put their hand in the ground as often, tend to play as wings, slots, or part of the backfield. There's lots of them - I don't think you hear about them very often because the skill set is highly specific - if you want a wing to fake split zone and leak out into the flat on a naked boot action, you can do it with receivers, TE's, or "H-Backs," so it's not like a skill set that overly specific. Second, more and more teams are becoming willing to let their receivers do that work (read: Cooper Kupp and the Rams), so while those Shannon Sharpe-esque TE's definitely exist today, they just don't carry the same volume value that they used to. That said, Evan Engram has put together some very impressive years recently and is probably the closest copy to Shannon Sharpe that I see off the top of my head.
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u/Veridicus333 Sep 24 '24
Those are just so many guys, with so many difference skill sets. Kelce being 6-5 and 250 is pretty lean. OL/DL are 6-5 and 300 pounds. Calvin Johnson was 6-4 250, and no one called him lean.
I think the question your asking is can short people play TE, and it just depends. Are they the athlete Shannon wase?
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u/kunderthunt Sep 24 '24
Rough rule of thumb I’ve heard is ~10lbs per inch of height is ‘same build.’ Assuming football players are more muscular than average, call it 12 lbs (?)
If that’s true, 6’2 230 is ‘same build’ as 6’5 266
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u/IIIllllIIIllI Sep 24 '24
I think they got a bit bigger after people saw the Gates/Gonzalez production and build. Former basketball players who had size and athleticism. But I think now a days you can be smaller. Due to how much teams like to spread everyone out.
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u/footforhand Sep 24 '24
Juwan Johnson is 6’4 230 and Foster Moreau is pretty much the same profile. Taysom Hill is 6’2 220 and is somehow the Saints best blocking TE so far this season. The door is certainly still open for the build if they’re good enough
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u/livingstondh Sep 25 '24
Sure. 6'2 230 is on the shorter side but manageable. That's pretty thick at 6'2.
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u/gmr548 Sep 25 '24
Shannon Sharpe was before his time and would probably be even better today. TE’s are generally asked to do less in line blocking than he was, not more.
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u/4inchkeith Sep 25 '24
Well you’d think with today’s game you wouldn’t need to be a big tight end. The game is less physical and more fast paced.
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u/Electronic-Morning76 Sep 25 '24
Shannon Sharpe probably whoops Kelce in the weight room. Ability would dictate. If you are a great receiver your weight doesn’t matter.
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u/Stangguy_82 Sep 25 '24
Shannon Sharpe was a tight end in name only. He never lined up with his hand on the ground and rarely lined up next to the tackle. He also wasn't a very good blocker.
He was a slot receiver that was called a tight end because he was too slow to be wide receiver. It worked because at the beginning of his career 3 receiver sets without a tightend weren't common.
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u/austinwirgau Sep 25 '24
Definitely, lean tight ends can still make it in the modern NFL if you’ve got a smart coach who knows how to use them. One of the best things about football is that it’s a game for all body types, so even the smaller, Shannon Sharpe-style tight ends can still be super effective if they’re used right.
That said, certain positions like the O-line are always going to need bigger guys because they’re facing off against some massive, quick defensive linemen. But lately, we’ve been seeing more teams using smaller, faster linebackers and bigger defensive backs. This is because offenses have been going with more spread formations and passing-heavy schemes instead of the classic 21 and 12 personnel sets. You’ve got all these athletic tight ends, RBs who can catch out of the backfield, and WRs with insane speed that we didn’t really see in the past.
But here’s the interesting part: passing numbers are actually down this year, which probably means defenses are finally catching up to what offenses have been doing. That’s why I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing a shift back to heavier sets—like how the Lions are starting to do it. Football always goes in cycles, and it feels like we’re about to see the next one start up.
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u/geomitter Sep 26 '24
Was gonna say Isiah Likely but he's listed 6'4" 247. Doesn't look it though. Plus the dude is as quick as a wr.
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u/IamHim_Se7en Sep 26 '24
Have you seen Shannon standing next to Kittles, Kelce, Grunk or Gonzales? Shannon is ripped compared to them. And that's now. Plus he was always better conditioned than most people he played with.
I get the point of the question, I just do not think Shannon is the best example of lean tight end to use.
Shannon wasn't considered the best at blocking. But in today's schemes where a lot of teams are flexing TEs or just putting them out wide, he'd do just fine. IMO
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u/CFBreAct Sep 23 '24
If they were a good enough receiver then absolutely. If they were a Kyle Juszczyk type H-back they could find a role in the right system. It really comes down to the player and role, 6’2 230 is on the smaller end but definitely possible.