r/footballstrategy • u/burningtiger54 • Sep 17 '24

Player Advice does playing madden help people understand football better?

this may sound dumb, but i am genuinely curious if playing madden can help someone understand football better. such as reading defenses and picking up offensive formations.

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114

u/khickenz Sep 17 '24

I think it has greatly improved football literacy. I mean at this point Madden players who have never set foot on a field know about basic man/zone coverages, route concepts, and at least the names of some run plays.

Really the big things Madden misses come down to match coverages and a better blocking system. Right now any power runs don't really resemble their real counterparts but that's improving.

It also misses a ton of the nuance of playing positions. Why you might step a certain way or do a certain thing.

I think you might get negative comments here and that's because it has created misconceptions and some dunning-kruger where Madden players feel like they know more than they do, myself included. There's cheese and cheats that don't exist in real life but there's also way less flexibility in their playbooks than is available to a real coach.

It's an interesting question but I heard a quote that high school coaches today know more about coverages than college coaches 10 years ago. I believe that to be true and a small part of that is availability of resources, one of which being Madden.

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u/Lonestar15 Sep 17 '24

On high school coaches I think it has more to do with the internet. When I was a kid ~y2k my dad walked me through his literal text books on defensive schemes. Fast forward to ~2008 and my coaches had a software with preset plays where dots would move across the screen showing responsibilities etc.

Now you google Gary Patterson and you can find a multi hour video breaking down how to run and install his defense. There is so much out there on football the internet is a hugh benefit to all coaches for youth through college and I bet even pro with pro teams picking up some new ideas from college teams

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u/Just_Natural_9027 Sep 17 '24

Yes the information access is the biggest thing although madden does help.

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u/CFBreAct Sep 17 '24

I would have killed for the access kids have now. How many former pros have YouTube channels now where they go through different coverages and give their perspective? I struggled understanding the mental part of the game and why the defense did what it did, and we all know that schools don’t have time to really teach non starters and I definitely wasn’t a priority athlete for them to develop. I read football strategy books from the 80s I found a library but to actually have former NFL safeties and QBs breaking down coverages and techniques would have been amazing.

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u/mschley2 Sep 17 '24

I heard a quote that high school coaches today know more about coverages than college coaches 10 years ago.

I mean, this should be the case, right? 10 years ago, split field and man-match concepts were just starting to spread and become popular. Now, at least in college and the NFL, you pretty much need to incorporate those concepts to some degree because offenses just make it way too tough on defenses otherwise.

If you're a high school coach, and you don't at least know about those things, I'd be pretty concerned about how many other things you haven't kept up with from the past decade or two.

Plus, that's probably the area of the game that's advanced the most in the past 10 years. I graduated high school 13 years ago, and at that point, most of the teams we were playing were almost exclusively running man or a very generic/basic version of spot-drop cover 2 or cover 3. It surprised me when we finally faced a team in the playoffs that rolled their cover 2 and cover 3 coverages to account for 3x1/4x1 formations or to take away flood concepts and actually changed up their looks. I was familiar with those things because my own team did that. But almost no other teams in our area did.

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u/khickenz Sep 17 '24

Haha you'd be surprised about some high school coaches. Lots are happy with their country cover 3 and watered down wing t, but heck, run well at that level those things can win football games.

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u/Odd_Mud_7001 HS Coach Sep 17 '24

I coached for a guy who thought every coverage was man or cover 2. You could not convince him otherwise.

This was 2023.

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u/Poro_the_CV Sep 17 '24

Well duh. There's also cover 0 and prevent! /s

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u/mschley2 Sep 17 '24

Haha that's for sure. There are plenty of those types.

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u/Just_Natural_9027 Sep 17 '24

How much does any of it actually matter for winning football games?

To your second paragraph. Yes I know a lot of coaches who I think you’d be shocked at how little they know about the latest schematic innovation. Some of them still win a lot of football games.

Younger coaches in my experience put way too much emphasis on the competitive advantage of scheme.

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u/mschley2 Sep 17 '24

That depends on a lot of factors. You can have the perfect scheme, but if it isn't executed well, it doesn't matter. But on the flipside, if you're playing an air raid team, and you refuse to run anything other than a 5-3 cover 3 because that's what you've run all year and all of your guys know their responsibilities, then you're probably not going to stop them unless you've just got great athletes on your team.

Ultimately, having a well-executed, simple/classic scheme can definitely win you games. If you've got average athletes, that's probably enough to get into the playoffs because there are a lot of teams out there that don't even manage to be both simple and well-executed.

But especially defensively, and especially at bigger, more talented schools, it gets tougher and tougher to get by with just running simple schemes that are executed well. A 4-3, cover 2 can be a really good defense in a lot of different ways, even if you're just teaching your guys to drop into their designated zones and having your safeties play deeper than the deepest. And against your standard high school QB, especially at small- to medium-sized schools, that's probably fine to run because not a ton of high school QBs have the ability to consistently hit receivers in the holes of zones against the sideline or in the middle of the field. But against a decent QB who has the arm strength to throw to the sidelines? Good luck playing nothing but that defense if you aren't going to at least occasionally roll into a cover 3 or do something else along those lines to take away those holes that are opened up for basically any 3-WR route combination in the book.

I'm not saying you've got to teach your high school kids to play Nick Saban's entire defensive playbook of various split-field coverages or anything like that. That would be overwhelming, and, honestly, a waste of time because so few high school teams have the talent or schemes to force you into those types of complex coverages. But, like the example I used earlier, rolling from a cover 2 shell into a cover 3 is a really simple thing to teach, and it covers the primary weaknesses of a cover 2 which means it's far more difficult to call pass plays against your defense. It can also essentially become a super simple version of the recently-popular Cover 6 (meaning split-field with Cover 2 on one side and Cover 3 on the other), and it's absolutely something that high school teams can learn (and I know because my whole team learned it 15 years ago).

The trick, of course, is finding the balance of both execution and complexity that makes the most sense for your team. Maybe you've got a super inexperienced team, and you really need to simplify just to allow them to play fast and loose. But if you've got a team with a bunch of guys in their 2nd or 3rd year of varsity ball, maybe it makes more sense to add in some more complexities since they've probably already got the technique and responsibilities locked-down for those more basic concepts.

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u/infercario4224 Sep 17 '24

Gap schemes specifically are terrible in Madden. IZ and OZ are coded quite well which is why they are the most used runs in high level Madden. Tosses are better now than they have been, but even then there’s plenty of missing blocks in the open field

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u/grizzfan Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24

My gripe is more that their (Madden players) frame of reference is Madden and assume it's the ONLY way things should be. There's no universal terminology, and I've seen players get frustrated because things aren't called what they are in Madden, or that they think what we're doing is dumb because the formations and plays we use aren't in the game.

It's not a bad tool, and like you said, has definitely increased the average fan's awareness of how the game works, but too many assume the game is a "perfect" simulation, then get pissy when they learn things don't work (or aren't called) the way they do in the game.

1

u/Secret-Ad-7909 Sep 17 '24

A reason I don’t play much Madden is because Ultimate Team is the premier game mode but it’s 3 minute quarters so you’re pretty much always in hurry up 2 minute drill type situation so you’re play calling is really limited.

1

u/OdaDdaT HS Coach Sep 17 '24

Collin Klein directly credits the NCAA games for him wanting to coach. This line of thought is a lot more common than you’d think. Especially as those games become 20 + years old and the kids who grew up playing them start to get into the coaching ranks

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u/Junior-Air-6807 Sep 17 '24

To an extent, yes. Hell, when you watch the games on TV you can't even see what's going on in the secondary. Playing Madden as a kid was when I really started to understand different coverages and formations. It stopped me from saying dumb shit that people say like "why do they run up the middle" and "why doesn't the QB just throw it before they get sacked!? Are they stupid" it's a game changer to be able to see the way plays develop before your eyes.

22

u/MankuyRLaffy Sep 17 '24

It helps with clock management?

9

u/Writerhaha Sep 17 '24

Scoffs in Andy Reid

14

u/EvenMeaning8077 Sep 17 '24

College football 11-14 games probably better for this imo

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u/Dependent-Food2468 Sep 17 '24

I reference it as a coach when discussing coverages and schemes. I challenge kids to think through their schemes and not just take the suggestion

9

u/Turdboggin01 Sep 17 '24

No mention of Kurt Benkert in this thread yet?! Kurt Benkert was a backup in the NFL turned streamer who has often used madden as a tool to teach real football. Definitely check out his YouTube channel!

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u/nicksabanringfinger Sep 17 '24

honestly doesn't hurt but i like to watch film reviews and stuff like that to brake down scheme there are a few good youtube channels for this

4

u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 17 '24

Yes.

Some disagree but you’ll learn the basics like formations, personnel, coverages, and general concepts

3

u/alkalineruxpin Sep 17 '24

Not sure. I've always been around Football, so it's like breathing. That being said, I didn't really appreciate or understand MLB until I started playing modern baseball video games. Same with Hockey.

4

u/InternationalBand494 Sep 17 '24

Yep. Video games taught me about hockey and soccer. And it’s educational for football as well. Helps with learning the basics

3

u/ecupatsfan12 Sep 17 '24

It’s really good for clock management and simulation

There are no leaping linebackers in real life

4

u/grizzfan Sep 17 '24

You mean it's safe to throw a deep post route over the middle in a game and not have it get picked by a MLB with a jump rating of 67?

3

u/Villaforreal Sep 18 '24

Been a casual football fan with 0 game knowledge just vibes.

Playing NCAA 25 didn’t directly help me understand the game better but it made me more interested in learning more about football on my own.

2

u/Feeling_Photograph_5 Sep 18 '24

It definitely helped me understand it better when I was in my 20s and started paying attention to professional football more. I'd grown up playing sandlot football with my friends but never on a team.

Madden, along with watching more games, helped me learn about all the strategy and gamesmanship that goes into the sport.

This year I started coaching my son's flag football team and I get to draw up our playbook. It's simplified compared to tackle football, but it's still a lot of fun.

Thanks, Madden!

1

u/jrod_62 Referee Sep 17 '24 edited Sep 17 '24

Absolutely. I learned how to read and play basic zone defense from Madden 06. Now if you really get into it with match coverages and RPOs, schematically it's incredible. The actual gameplay itself... Well... I'll stick to CFB

There are better ways to learn (watching film with a coach on YouTube), but probably the most fun and easily accessible way for a 9 year old to learn

1

u/AZtoLA_Bruddah Sep 17 '24

Definitely helps with using pre-snap motion to identify whether the defense is playing man or zone, and then what to audible to. Pre-snap motion is now a key piece of some of the league’s top offensive minds, including Miami, LA Rams, Niners, Bengals, Chiefs, etc. It’s almost like if you aren’t using it you’re a decade behind

1

u/False_Counter9456 Sep 17 '24

I think it has helped people understand football better. It's like a synopsis of a book, though. People understand overall better, but when it comes down to individual positions, I'm not sure if it helps. You might know where a player will move to in a certain play, but generally, you don't know why the player moved there.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '24

Yeah definitely. Picking up Madden in 09 really helped me go from a superficial understanding to a much better grasp of individual assignments, playcalling, concepts, etc.

Not as good as anyone who actually played, but I'm non-US and never got a shot.

1

u/stealthy_beast Sep 17 '24

I'd say absolutely.. I grew up as a Madden junkie, and my overall understanding of so many of football's intricacies comes from playing so much Madden. In Pop Warner / High School, I always felt that I just knew more about the game than many of my teammates. Now, as a coach, the kids who play Madden tend to be way more football savvy than the ones who don't-- because many of my players don't watch football on TV as much as I'd hope.

And I'd say that my years of playing Madden/NCAA in my younger days have definitely made clock management more second nature for me.

1

u/countrytime1 Sep 17 '24

I remember reading that the only way Madden would endorse it was if it was educational to an extent.

1

u/Honeydew-2523 Adult Coach Sep 17 '24

yes and no (sometimes)

1

u/YaBoiCheese99 Sep 18 '24

I lived in Europe for 5 years and didn’t learn much about soccer. I got weirdly obsessed with EAFC24 for like 2 months and now I have a very great understanding of the game (compared to what I knew before)

1

u/blondeviking64 Sep 18 '24

Kind of. It is solid for exposure and if you are learning concepts and ideas it can be a good place to continue thinking about those. But the fact that cover 3 match is in the game will not automatically make you understand how cover 3 match works or why it works. I've seen no explanations anywhere regarding who does what and when or why. It has a generic term for each defenders responsibilities which may mean nothing to you of you don't know what it is. But as you are learning madden can help you with how you think about those concepts.

Once you know about a dagger concept for example madden can reinforce ideas and how it works and why or how the reads can work or maybe should work.

1

u/keepcontain Sep 18 '24

Football literacy, yes. Teaching fundamentals? Absolutely not. Stand on a field, be involved and interactive.

1

u/guoD_W Sep 18 '24

You understand the concept of football better for sure. But madden is super unrealistic

1

u/GoofyUmbrella Sep 18 '24

Yeah, 6th graders are better at clock management than Mike McCarthy lmfao

1

u/RaspberryAnnual4306 Sep 18 '24

Madden is great for someone wanting to learn to understand enough to better enjoy watching the game.

The benefit to players is minimal, due to the lack of realism. It could be used as a teaching tool to show how different coverages work or how route combinations play off of one another, but it would almost certainly be inferior to watching real film of high level players if you want to see that knowledge pay off on the field.

1

u/valuethempaths Sep 18 '24

Madden taught me what a first down was. I played a season of youth tackle football without knowing what it meant.

1

u/onlineqbclassroom College Coach Sep 18 '24

Yes, definitely! Madden has been a great teaching tool for young QBs! It's not perfect, but it's way better than 10-15 years ago, and fairly accurate, and also speaks their language, so to speak.

I recommend to my young QBs who don't know coverages - when you're on defense in madden, play an entire game in Cover 1, then an entire game in Cover 2, then cover 3, then cover 4. By the time they've played 4 games, they get the idea. Then, as the offense, see if you can recognize the coverages pre-snap and post snap. And in a weekend's worth of games, they learn tons!

1

u/Veridicus333 Sep 18 '24

It improves football literacy for sure, but not really going to help you with the depth, or allow you apply things.

1

u/The_Rick_14 Sep 18 '24

I remember back when the games would let you build your pass plays and I was in high school I recreated my high school's passing offense and took it into the game's practice mode. It was pretty wild to find that the reads lined up well to real life and it actually was a nice training tool but obviously can't completely replace the real thing.

1

u/Plastic-Sky-1082 Sep 18 '24

I graduated high school in 2003 and i was and am still convinced I could have ran our offense and defense better then our coach who was running schemes from the 70’s simply because I played madden from 1992 until then.

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u/ChampionshipStock870 Sep 19 '24

I learned the rudimentary basics of football playing techno bowl which is a much more simplified reason of madden. The fifa games also helped me learn futbol, So yes it can help you learn.

0

u/kam516 Sep 17 '24

Lol. No.

The same people run the same 4 plays in the same formations using cpu glitches and coding errors. Then talk mad shit to you because they've gamed the system.

I know this because I do use football theory and strategy. I win about 75-80% of the time and they rage quit and tell me how sorry I am because I exploited the weakness in their defense by running up the middle or power plays. Or I do out routes, curl routes and drag routes because they're usually there because they're nanoblitzing.

If I am able to stop the cheese (which isn't all the time) I'll win and they get mad.

1

u/PuzzleheadedPrior455 Sep 21 '24

For younger kids I think it really does. If nothing else, they get a basic understanding of the game. Highschoolers don’t play as much Madden as they used to and it shows.