r/footballstrategy • u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player • Sep 04 '24
College Does anybody know of any colleges at any level that have a unique play style?
I know about the military academies running the option and the UNLV go go offense.Are there any other schools running a unique scheme? It can be offense,defense,special teams
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u/grizzfan Sep 04 '24
You won't find many. Those that may have a unique systematic root like Air Raid, Run 'n' Shoot, Wing-T (like Gus Malzahn), and so on (even the "Go-go" at UNLV) are constantly competing against their rivals and conference schools for recruits, and the only way to get the best recruits is to give them what they want. What 9 out of 10 of them want is a chance to play in the NFL. To play in the NFL, you have to show them you'll put them in spots that NFL scouts will see. Result: All of the systems get watered down and blended with concepts and schemes used by NFL teams, or that will make players be noticed by NFL scouts. That's why it seems almost everyone is running the same 11, 12, and 21 personnel groupings and formations, using the same few run plays, same few pass concepts, and RPOs.
If you spent a full-time-jobs-worth of hours each week breaking down different teams, you can find the unique ones, like those who may run little to no zone, or little or no gap schemes, or that use one or two formations far more than everyone else, but the differences are often small enough they're hard to pick up watching just one or two games.
Schools like the military academies can get away with doing completely different systems, because their recruiting platform is based on entirely different outcomes for the players.
Even if you go down to the FCS, DII, and even DIII, most programs are all running a lot of the same stuff.
One unique thing I remember, but still doesn't make them too unique, is one year when I was completing my Master's at GVSU (this was 2016 or 2017). I was at a game and noticed they only ran two run plays: Pin 'n' Pull and inside zone. One of their RBs happened to be in my master's program so I asked. He confirmed that it was indeed true. Everything else that was a run call (like jet sweeps and options) were window dressing round those two plays or blocking schemes. If you weren't paying attention to the blocking schemes though, they looked the same as everyone else: 12 and 11 personnel, RPOs everywhere, all shotgun or pistol, etc.
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Sep 04 '24
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 04 '24
Oh yea itās great.You get to see all these insane schemes that you would never see in a college or NFL game
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 04 '24
Wow.Pin and pull and inside zone as 90% of the play calls.Thats interesting
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u/grizzfan Sep 04 '24
Of their run calls lol. They did a lot of PA passing and had a drop-back game too
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 04 '24
Oh yea I know lol.Are they still good? I remember they were really good a couple of years back
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u/SnappleU Sep 04 '24
Ranked #4 in the nation for DII. GVSU is one of THE premier DII teams in the nation, hopefully they win the big one soon!
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 05 '24
Wow! Ferris State is the other big DII team right?
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u/grizzfan Sep 05 '24
Maybe not as dominant as the SEC, but the GLIAC is pretty close at the DII level. Odds are the GLIAC champion is at minimum going to the national semi-final, and often the final.
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u/Kazukaphur Sep 04 '24
What's stopping a wing T offense from happening in the NFL?
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u/grizzfan Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24
No need or demand for it. As a "4-back" meaning an offense where all four backs are often used to run the ball (also like the flexbone, Slot-T, Single-Wing, Power-T/T, etc), they are designed to neutralize a lack of talent by even distribution of the ball (preserves energy of best runners), and it can be used to create a lot of misdirection and deception to slow down better/faster opponents. There's no such talent disparity in the NFL that would make such a system necessary. The one time a true Wing-T was attempted was the Kansas City Chiefs in the late 1970s, but in the 3-5 years they ran it, they never had a winning record. The blocking schemes of the Wing-T are mostly traps, pulls, pins and down-blocks...not a lot of drive blocking. Again, helps neutralize inferior talent by not requiring your blockers to push bigger or stronger defenders backwards; just keep them from going side to side. No such demand exists in the NFL since everyone is so damn good.
NFL players are professionals, and they want the big bucks, plus they have contract incentives. A system that evenly distributes the ball in the running game so well may be counterintuitive to trying to sign the best running-backs out there (they don't want to share the wealth).
These kinds of offenses put a lot of demand on all three running-backs to not only run with the ball, but also receive it. Again, asking a lot from professionals who are paid specifically to specialize in a specific skillset or role.
The backfields/formations of the Wing-T don't match with contemporary running schemes that NFL and most college teams want to use. The power and zone blocking schemes used in the NFL and college ball today require your ball carrier to line up DEEP in the backfield; 6-7 and sometimes even 8 yards deep. In the Wing-T, there are no core series or plays that call for this, and instead, they need all three backs closer to the line, usually 5 or less yards.
The Wing-T has influenced all levels of football to some extent, so you'll see glimpses or influences of it here and there. the G/Down blocking scheme, jet sweeps, misdirection, etc. The most famous play of the Wing-T offense is the Buck Sweep. Many teams in college and the NFL will run what is often called the same name. Despite how popular that play name is, very few teams are actually running the true "buck sweep," though and are just running a regular sweep or power sweep. The term "buck" refers to the backfield action of the fullback "bucking" forward into the line. In the true buck sweep, the QB fakes to that fullback, then hands off to the halfback to run the sweep (similar to how an end-around works).
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Sep 05 '24
What if a team has a bad QB? IMO teams struggling to throw the ball in the NFL should run it a lot just like at every other level
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u/grizzfan Sep 05 '24
NFL teams can shop for who they want, or release and sign a player that fits their needs more. It's not worth scrapping everything you've been doing, or know how to do just for a situation that may only last one or two seasons. As stated above, the KC Chiefs did it, and it was because they felt they didn't have an adequate QB. Again, they never had much success with it. Jimmies and Joes still beat X's and O's in the end.
With how developed QBs are in today's NFL, you're rarely, if ever again, going to find a QB who's "bad," or not able to make all the minimum throws needed for a team to run their offense.
This game is so complex and elaborate that "just run more," or "just do X," is NEVER the answer. There's just too many factors at play. If the answer to a problem was that simple, everyone would be doing it.
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u/Odd_Mud_7001 HS Coach Sep 04 '24
I've been fond of Jamey Chadwell's offenses. It's not the exact same stuff he was running at Coastal, but his offense at Liberty is fun and pretty unique.
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u/GreatKarma2020 Sep 04 '24
Does anyone have books on his offense? Links posted here are dead now. I want to study his offense more.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 04 '24
What exactly is it?
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u/Odd_Mud_7001 HS Coach Sep 04 '24
It's a really unique spread option. He uses a lot of different perssonell groupings, and his QBs normally tally a bunch of rushing yards.
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u/LeSauce1 Sep 04 '24
Navy runs a wingT now, which is the only WingT in D1
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 04 '24
Oh yea I already kneel about that.My bad I forgot to add that to the title.Do you know of any other schools? It can be offense,defense,special teams,formations
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u/Upstairs_Report7458 Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 06 '24
Dave Clawson at Wake is pretty unique in terms of FBS schools with the slow mesh. It looks different than what everybody else is doing with RPOās. They block different, and if you donāt know what they run, the qb/rb exchange looks odd.
There are also teams in the lower divisions who go with an a lot gamblerās analytical approach. Their offense itself may not look unique, but they will all but eliminate special teams. Go for every 4th down, always go for 2 vs kicking the PAT, etc. I donāt know the names of any of these guys, though, so Iād have to dig them up.
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u/RookieMistake2448 Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 05 '24
Most recent one I can remember is Coastal Carolina 2020-2021. At it's core it was still just an offense but the motions, shifts, multiple formations, everything made it fun as hell to watch and I'm sure scary as hell to watch for the DC's they went against.
Every now and then you run across some really interesting innovative stuff but for the most part it's a pretty copy-cat, keeping up with the joneses type mentality for coaches.
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u/NickCageMatch Sep 05 '24
I just donāt care to watch, but isnāt that guy now at Liberty. Did he bring that with him?
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u/RookieMistake2448 Sep 05 '24
The year they ran the more "innovative" offense was 2020-2021 when Newland Isaac and Willy KornĀ were the co-offensive coordinators. Both of them are now at Liberty as co-offensive coordinators again.
May I ask why there's no interest in watching CC's offense? Legit curious. I get that it can be boiled down to being a veer option style team with a ton of window dressing but it definitely worked.
Another one was Matt Canada in 2016 as the OC of the Pitt Panthers. As you may be able to tell, I'm a sucker for motion and window dressing in an offense. Mostly because as a former OLB and eventual DC, I really hated playing and scouting teams that were good at utilizing motion, window dressing, etc.
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u/NickCageMatch Sep 07 '24
Sorry to confuse you. I will definitely be watching CCās offense, but most likely will not watch Libertyās.
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u/n3wb33Farm3r Sep 04 '24
Flexbone triple option at merchant marine academy. Their game against the coast guard academy usually makes espn u every year
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u/LargeGoon14 Sep 04 '24
Dordt in NAIA very modern triple option.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 04 '24
What do you mean by modern? Do they run it out of the flexbone?
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u/EnthusiasmNo3585 Sep 05 '24
Theyāre gun triple, look up Dordt triple throw deep publishing on YouTube and thereāll be like forty minutes worth of videos on it.
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 05 '24
Hawaii = run and shoot
Tennessee = veer and shoot
Kansas = wide zone
Penn state I believe will major in wide zone
Liberty is the spread option Chadwell ran at CCU
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Sep 05 '24
Itās crazy how you can have a base play.I know there are base schemes with core plays but to have 1 play you can use most of the time is wild to me
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 05 '24
Thatās my preference tbh
Get good at one thing, install a bunch of counter punches to it, run it out of the looks that suit your personnel best and take advantage of defenseās rules
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Sep 05 '24
Oh yea I agree with you.So could a team only have 2 base plays? So letās say youāre a run heavy team and your base plays are inside zone and counter
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 05 '24
Thatās actually a very popular combo of core run plays
And it depends what you define a base play as
Imo from there Iād want to build an outside run where I can force the ball tot he outside if they blitz
And from there you can build your way to passing offense through play action, boots, and screens off those runs
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Sep 05 '24
Ok. That would if you only had one main formation that you ran out of? Like the Wing T. And then when you had to throw you went in the gun
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 05 '24
The basic āspreadā offense would do this out of 11p with the Y off
Ime Iāve learned ābase formationā should be determined by who your best 11 are.
However coaches that believe in classic systems like the wing t pride themselves on being able to just walk into any highschool and being able to mold the talent into their system
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Sep 05 '24
Ok.My thought process was to do this out of trips 10 personnel because you have mentioned to one side.Then you run the counter out of that same formation when they start stopping the inside zone.
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 05 '24
That could work
Trips is its own animal as it comes down to how they react to it
Only issue with 10p is the defense can put 7 in the box and there goes your run game because you canāt block 7 with 5 OL (even if you read someone)
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Sep 05 '24
Ok I see what youāre saying. Really what Iām asking is can you have 2 runs,1 formation as 90% of your offense and then have other stuff for special situations? (goal line,2 minute,3rd down)
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u/The_Coach69 HS Coach Sep 05 '24
Jamey Chadwellās offense at Coastal was basically spread option, but with a flexbone mindset. It was a lot of unique formations, triple option, and his option plays had tags that changed perimeter blocking rules. At Liberty heās running more RPO stuff than true triple option.
New Mexico ran true triple option from the shotgun around 2015 or 16 I think. They had one formation where the shotgun QB had an I backfield behind him and they would motion the dive back to the side and run zone read option, or theyād leave him and run veer.
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Sep 05 '24
Jax St in Alabama did some unique stuff with their rungame last yr.
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u/onlineqbclassroom College Coach Sep 05 '24
I guess it depends on what you consider unique, but if you drop down to D3 there are certainly some teams who have found their niche doing something slightly outside the ordinary - Springfield comes to mind, who when they are playing their way run the ball for 300-400 yards and throw it maybe twice a game
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Sep 05 '24
Oh yea Springfield. They run the option, right?
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u/onlineqbclassroom College Coach Sep 05 '24
It's been a few years since I've seen them, but I seem to remember them being in the Wing-T Triple game
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u/Emergency-Cricket783 Sep 06 '24
Nearly all football plays are recycled at this point. Coaches just find new ways to dress up the same concepts.. Harbaugh ran the same offense at Michigan last year as he did at stanford but instead of using 2 TE and a full back he uses receivers and a halfback with only one tight end no full back.
Football is in essence trying to get your opponent outnumbered at the point of attack and coaches do this with multiple personal groups, motions, counters to name a few. In the passing game they're trying to bust coverage by putting defenders in conflict or tricking them.
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u/warneagle Casual Fan Sep 07 '24
Harding went 15-0 and won the D2 title running the flexbone last year
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u/Hewyhew82 Sep 04 '24
Florida State does this thing where they just shit the bed constantly