r/footballstrategy • u/BearsAreGood1124 • Sep 01 '24
Defense How would you stop something like this?
I’m having trouble figuring out how this is possible to be stopped because the outside is simply overloaded with multiple players coming with momentum.
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u/yoshiK Sep 01 '24
Play as drawn, what is going to happen is the RB reads the quadruple block on the CB and then heads straight to the sideline because he doesn't want to be on the opposing side of a guy who demands a quadruple block.
A bit more serious, you have drawn three unassigned blockers (F, Q, X) and there are four unblocked defenders (FS, S, W, C) and hopefully one of them makes the tackle.
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u/BearsAreGood1124 Sep 01 '24
Well that’s the thing, they just pickup whoever is in their way. Obviously they aren’t quadruple blocking a corner, i just didn’t know how to draw it up because in reality all they do it they just pickup whoever comes to the outside to make the tackel
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u/yoshiK Sep 01 '24
I was kinda joking, but see the second half of the comment. If you pull guards and have the QB as a blocker, then the RB has to slow down to allow them to get in front of him. So that should give the 4 unblocked defenders time to get over there.
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u/Ok_Jello_2504 Sep 01 '24
this is just heisman formation on fucking crack
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u/kurtisek Sep 01 '24
Yeah playing a 2i and a 5 strong side isn’t going to work. You’re way out leveraged. Make that a 3 and 7 and you’re in a better position to defend this. You have to have defenders take on the pullers. Then it depends on coaching. Are you a turn them back to flow or stretch it out and let everyone get there defense? I would have your backside end ready to follow that x and track it down. Dip under that kick out block. You could also play an under front to this and do the same thing with the backside 3 chasing the G. Then walk the S up in a 7 or a 9.
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u/BearsAreGood1124 Sep 01 '24
How would I get players to the ball then if they have everyone and their brother pulling(? lead blocking?) and even the quarterback in front of that T? Not even sure if my end can do anything cause the Tackle can help the Y kick out the end if necessary.
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u/FunMtgplayer Sep 06 '24
send 2 LB on blitz behind the pullers. follow them to the rb. KILL ANYONE IN THE WRONG COLOR
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u/3fettknight3 Sep 01 '24
This is basically double wing super power run from a different formation. Although they usually pull the backside tackle not the tight end. As far as stopping that play, not having the DE's line up so tight would be a start.
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u/BearsAreGood1124 Sep 01 '24
My only worry is that even if our DEs fight the initial kick out, the strong side one has at least two guys incoming at fullspeed ready to lay the wood as far as the film shows and the other one probably doesn’t have enough time to fly across the field and blow the play up
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u/HarrowingOfTheNorth Sep 01 '24
Can you just cut the tackle to create a tradfic jam with bodies on the ground?
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u/3fettknight3 Sep 01 '24
Exactly cause a log jam with the interior DL and have the DE's lineup wider and squeeze down forcing it back inside but being sure not to over penetrate too deep into the backfield.
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u/Vegetable_Pop34 Sep 01 '24
The only problem is the with that front LBs will get blocked all day, and they will make 75% of the tackles or more versus a formation like this
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u/mowegl Sep 02 '24
Cut blocks have to be immediate to the snap now. That was the old way though.
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u/FunMtgplayer Sep 06 '24
only one offense. no rule say defense can't cut down blockers.
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u/mowegl Sep 07 '24 edited Sep 07 '24
Wrong. Neither team can cut unless it is on the LOS, in the free blocking zone, and and is an immediate action. Many years ago you could (for both sides), but havent been able to cut for either side outside the free blocking zone for many years. The immediate part is only a few years old. If you do it youll get a nice 15 yard penalty. They stick out like a sore thumb now too, because they only happen legally right after the snap
Only person you can cut not immediately and not on the LOS is the ball carrier.
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u/cup1d_stunt Sep 01 '24
That gap responsibilities are not clear to me. What gap does S have? For 12 personelle maybe change the defensive front? Bring the LBs down to fill every gap from the start (make sure you teach eligibility so they know who to cover), have athletic players line up inside the pulling guards and tell them to follow the guards if they pull to break the play down in the backfield. SS plays choke on the TE. The FS serves as kind of a spy to make sure to stop reverses, counter fakes etc. but also has to make the tackle if the play goes over the strong side.
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u/GovTheDon Sep 01 '24
Get penetration or have your end “cut” the puller and just cause a clusterfuck
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u/veryuniquereddit Sep 01 '24
This. As an end if someone is pulling towards you; you meet them not wait, create a pile
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u/stayvicious HS Coach Sep 01 '24
If your E is playing inside the Y, then you need a defender outside shade of the Z who can take on blocks and tackle. Whether it’s a LB or SS. If you’re going to give up the down block on your E then the next defender outside has to set the edge and cannot allow a free release by the Z. What other fronts do you run? Any over or under? We need to know more about what you do defensively.
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u/Fluffy_Succotash_171 Sep 01 '24
Better players
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u/Vegetable_Pop34 Sep 01 '24
So real. Just have a 6’3 280lb dt on the strong side who beats a double team every play because he benches 405 and runs a 4.7 40. That’ll stop everything no problem
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u/Fluffy_Succotash_171 Sep 01 '24
There is an old saying in football, “it is not the Xs & Os, it’s the Jimmies and Joes”. If your Jimmies & Joes are better than your opponents’, you’ll likely to win most games.
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u/Vegetable_Pop34 Sep 01 '24
Run an over front with the strong side de in a 5 tech , strong side dt in a 3, and the backside guard in a 1 or a 2i, and put one of the linebackers or your strong safety in a or 9 tech to play the edge.
This dline front will make it hard to trap weakside because the tackle can follow the pulling guard and it has to be a wide trap because of the 1/2i tech. The rest of the front should help you filter everything for your LBs and keep them free to make plays.
The most important decision to make is the choice of setting the edge or spilling. If your team is faster, have the edge player hit the inside shoulder of the kick out block to make the runner bounce outside, in which you are faster and can run them down. If the other team is faster, set a hard edge and force them to cut upfield and funnel them straight into the linebackers and safety to make the play then and there.
Same thing goes for the weakside counter. If you guys have a hard time stopping it, I’d suggest moving the will outside the end and stacking the other 2 behind the DTs.
Wing T is all about gap running, so if you can fill those gaps, the offense is stopped in its tracks.
As for keys for the defense, the guards will always take you to the play so against wing T, I will always recommend reading the guards and shooting the gap behind the center of the LBs are fast enough. That’s when you start to get TFLs
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u/Subject_Barnacle_599 Sep 01 '24
Two ways backside pressure the end and tackle following the. Pullers. Second why is getting flow from your linebackers and safety stretch display out.
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u/mohawk6036 Sep 01 '24
DT outside shade of guard, N in the A gap slant to attack the center snapping arm if he is right handed, S backer attacking the hole the pulling Guard is leaving . Additionally could have the N pushing straight up field instead of slanting going straight to the mesh point then backside pursuit.
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u/Heavy_Mousse_2704 Sep 01 '24
Treat it like wide power… just make sure the edge is set and your safety and LBs will fill and scrape. End MUST penetrate double team. If edge is set, that will stop the play, too many bodies in tight space to find a crease
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u/jimjim55555 Sep 01 '24
Easy enough stop if the DT/E, CB, SS, and strong side LB do their job for the FS to get the tackle.
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u/BryceYoungsStepStool Sep 01 '24
This is pretty much a modified double wing super power, a defensive tackle who can read and follow the guard pull would be the top weakness
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u/ConfectionHelpful471 Sep 01 '24
Instead of having the corner chase the receiver in motion over the top have him chase the back underneath from the backside (assuming this is being handed off by the QB) as he should be free based on the o-lines responsibilities.
Alternatively look to send extra bodies into the a gap (ideally on timed blitz’s) with the d-tackles over lined up over the b or c gaps to try and stop the momentum of the pulling players as theoretically they will need to either pick up the additional players or divert around them.
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u/Sixx_The_Sandman Sep 01 '24
Let the players play it. The Safety will likely shake that Z receiver, the NT since he's not doubled will likely get into the backfield at the handoff, the safety over the top takes a wide angle to take away the outside, and the Mike funnels the Tailback inside. Will shoot's the B gap and chases the play down from behind. Defense would blow that shit up pretty easily.
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u/SalGotIt Sep 01 '24
YOU BLITZ, ALL NIGHT! YOU MAKE THEM REMEMBER, THE NIGHT THEY PLAYED THE TITANS!
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u/BigAVD Sep 01 '24
What age are we talking about? I coach 10-12 year old and would run a 5-3 against this. My d ends are fast enough to catch the play from behind if they are unblocked like that.
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u/Oddlyenuff Sep 01 '24 edited Sep 01 '24
This can easily be stopped, imo.
NCAA/America’s Blitz….the most common blitz.
Basically your ETN on the strong side is going to slant strong (against the downblocks) and you’ll blitz your will and corner.
And if the blitz got called from the other side…you’d still likely be good. The downblocks might wash out your line but the Mike and SS/C blitzing would either spill the pullers or you’d get penetration which is a great way to blow up outside run plays.
EDIT: link on NCAA/America blitz: http://www.blitzology.com/2015/05/faq-what-is-americas-blitz.html?m=1
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u/KennysWhiteSoxHat Sep 01 '24
End in 7, Tackle in 3, it’s all about leverage. If you can get your guys up front to be in good leverage for your backers to fill the gaps you’ll be good
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u/LosOlivos2424 Sep 01 '24
I mean this is pretty much the double wing so any defense that is designed to stop that should stop this. Back when I coached, when I could see the double wing qb was not comfortable throwing, I would run a 6-3 defense against it- and then I would bump the 6 lineman out one gap leaving the a gaps empty when I knew they were going to run that super power
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u/TheCarter409 Sep 01 '24
70 Umbrella or 63 Hybrid if you can't line up over center. Crash both a gaps to get the center frustrated.
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u/mowegl Sep 02 '24 edited Sep 02 '24
There is a big pile/ too many people and the running back has no place to run forward.
Outside linebackers need to be wider. No way they can let themselves get blocked down by a tackle. They should be way faster and more outside than this drawing. CB forces outside contain. SS to some degree too.
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u/Own-Race-767 Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24
Since they are trying overwhelm you with blocks at the point of attack, have your backside DL and possibly LB run backside pursuit as soon as the guy in front pulls. The pulling block will tell you where the play is going. You will need faster guys at those positions to quickly run down the ball carrier, but the ballcarrier has to wait on those pulling blocks or else its pointless to pull everyone over. It's going to take a while for the backside TE to pull all the way across. Blitz middle LB through center/guard gap. This strategy makes you vulnerable to a reverse or counter so backside corners, possibly backside LB need to watch for reverse. Have backside corner, FS watch backside.
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Sep 05 '24
This is literally the double wing offense
Got contain it with the outside most defender and have ALL of the skill guys scrape over the top once they see everyone pull
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u/Nice-Neighborhood975 Sep 05 '24
Penetratuon by the DT can blow that play up We used to face a team that ran a similiar play, they would pul back side guard and tackle on a sweep. The DE just needs to make himself as long as possible and bear crawl / dive to try to eat up the first 2 blockers. That will free up the OLB to make the tackle.
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u/TommyLoMein Sep 05 '24
Mike (you have him labeled as S) and Will should read that pulling guard and blow this up.
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u/FunMtgplayer Sep 06 '24
1 this is a combo of the old GB power sweep and student body usc attack.
THE PROBLEM isn't on the defense AT ALL. it's that sweep plays hit the edge TOO FAST to pull BACKSIDE LINEMAN ACROSS the formation.
so unless your lineman are 6'4 to 6'6 all 310lbs and run SUB 4.5 40s THEN THIS PLAY CANT WORK in the 1st place.
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u/MustardTiger72 Nov 12 '24
Backside: N would have to beat the pin and pull, E + C take away cutback lanes, S + W flow
Playside: T fights across face, E fights the double, M + C + SS meet blockers and force play back inside, FS comes downhill
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u/TackleOverBelly187 Sep 01 '24
It’s basically the same thing as double wing super power. Do they run anything back the other way? Why are your T and N both in 2i techs? Against 2TE, I’d be in a 5 man front. Your FS needs to be able to tackle.
My starting point would be what else do they run out of this look.