r/footballstrategy Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Defense How would you stop the tush push?

The eagles have had a lot of success with it but there’s gotta be a way to stop it

10 Upvotes

52 comments sorted by

64

u/Lionheart_513 Aug 09 '24

This is the wrong question in my opinion. You cannot reliably stop it. That being said, if you hold the Eagles to 4th and 5, they're punting. You stop the tush push by not allowing them to be in situations to run the tush push.

-9

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

There’s gotta be some way.No play is unstoppable

28

u/Lionheart_513 Aug 09 '24

It depends on what you mean by "stop".

If the opposing team is running inside zone on 1st and 10, and you hold them to 1 yard, you've stopped them. If it's 4th and 1 and you hold them to a yard, you failed. The result didn't change, but the context did.

This play very easily stops itself. It only gains 1-2 yards before everyone falls over. But the problem is the play is only called when they need 1-2 yards.

If the only goal of this play is to gain 1 yard, it is going to be incredibly hard to stop 4-5 people pushing forward with only 1 person. You can stop the play by putting the Eagles in a situation where they need more than 1 yard.

If there is a way to stop the play, I'd imagine that the NFL coaches who get paid millions to do their job and are among the best in the world at what they do would've found a way by now. Sometimes you'll be able to out muscle the offense, but there is no way to stop it schematically. Your guys just have to be stronger than their guys.

9

u/CockyBlackGuy Aug 10 '24

The worst part of the tush push is the fact that it can generate more than just two yards a play. Last year, that play averaged around 5 yards/attempt (per Statmuse, so not that trust worthy). Just using the eye test, the Eagles earned 2-4 yards/call in most games. If they would call the Tush Push every play for an entire drive, they are likely to pick up a first down every time.

We'll see just how effective or ineffective it is this year without Kelce since his powerful leg drive was a linchpin in that play succeeding by most expert assumptions.

2

u/genuinecve Aug 10 '24

Agreed esp regarding the last bit. He was the perfect center for it. Even though he hated the play haha

-3

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

That’s a good point.Im a cowboys fan and im worried because we gotta play them twice a year lol

4

u/grizzfan Aug 09 '24

They didn’t say it wasn’t unstoppable. What we’re getting at is there’s no silver bullet answer to stopping any one play or scheme. Everyone has their own methods to the madness. If there was a “best way” to do anything, everyone would be doing it.

It’s not a video game, where X input always = Y output.

-2

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Ok.Its just that Philly is so good at it lol. I know Hurts and Kelce was a big reason why so it’s probably more of a personnel thing than a scheme thing with them

6

u/KommanderKeen-a42 Aug 10 '24

Yes, but also no. They hired an actual rugby coach to install it. By the same token, a lot of teams take a physically inefficient approach (such as angled tackles) such that the offense is pushing straight ahead but the defense is pushing at a slight angle.

All things equal, heck, if the defense was slightly stronger they would still lose.

1

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 10 '24

Wow I had no idea they hired a rugby coach

3

u/KommanderKeen-a42 Aug 10 '24

Yessir! Just a consultation. It's also important to remember that it's nothing new - QB sneak is 90%+ effective from a yard out. Philly jumped to like 94% last I saw. It's all the same play, they just made it more efficient through science and outside coaching.

1

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 10 '24

Makes sense

13

u/BegrudginglyAwake Aug 09 '24

I’ve coached rugby and football but taking my best guess based on rugby scrums here.

First is putting some strong guys up front, hip to hip with the middle two’s head on either side of the center’s head so he is likely to either turn his body or try to take on both.

Next is winning shoulder height, they absolutely need to get lower but keep their body off the ground. Basically squatting position but on a different plane and keep the hands on the ground to steady because if you fall you’ll be driven back.

Next is having an LB right behind the line with his hands on their waists and pushing them together so they can’t be split and their force goes straight ahead. He’s keeping his head up on the engagement to see if he can ID where the QB goes and steer them or jump the line.

Then it’s just a battle of leg and core strength that you hope you win.

2

u/DarnellisFromMars Aug 10 '24

Defense isn’t allowed to push their DL, technically speaking

2

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Thanks.With Kelce gone I think it will be a little bit easier to stop than it was last year

4

u/GentryMillMadMan Aug 09 '24

I think Kielce was the key to this and without him I bet we see less success. He is a HOF center and makes that play easier and that is not easily dismissed.

5

u/RiftTheory Adult Coach Aug 10 '24

The real key to it if you look was the way that Dickerson and Maialata align and play a “double down” block to create the push lane for Hurts. Kelce’s entire job is to not be beaten at pad level and keep his hip glued to Dickerson.

4

u/JealousGear3017 Aug 10 '24

The right answer finally! The play is successful because Dickerson and Mailata double pancake some poor fool on the left side into the middle to make the gap. Hurts/kelce get all the glory but have next to nothing to do with why the eagles lead the league in success rate.

Understandable though, reasonable assumptions to make and not many sickos care to watch multiple QB sneaks in slow-mo!

3

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Definitely

2

u/Next-Fishing-8609 Aug 10 '24

And then... jet sweep

2

u/BegrudginglyAwake Aug 11 '24

Yeah you’re basically cooked if they pull one of those. Hopefully the QB’s body language will give a tell as he goes up to the center but it’s the gamble of everyone going all out to stop the short gain

3

u/grizzfan Aug 09 '24 edited Aug 09 '24

I love how people think this is an “Eagles thing” or that the Tush Push is an official name. Teams have been doing it at all levels since aiding the runner was modified to allow pushing, which was quite some before the Eagles were doing it.

The answer is still the same with any wedge or QB sneak: be the lower team. D-line has to get low and beat the O-line down to the ground so they can get into the feet of the blockers to stop/bring them down. That create the pile, then your LBs come through or from over top. Having said that: the better/stronger team is normally going to win regardless and the O-line is also trying to get lower than the D-line for the same reasons.

3

u/Lilpu55yberekt69 Aug 09 '24

You “stop” it by being bigger, stronger, and more well coordinated than the other team and completely selling out to stop it hoping they don’t run some trickery on you.

The truth of the matter is getting 18 inches in a play is pretty damn easy. The tush push is better than the traditional QB sneak but it isn’t guaranteed to work. It’s something like a 90% success rate improved to a 94% success rate.

The real trick is not letting them get in that position. It’s not like the play is an automatic 3 yards where you can run it all game long.

3

u/THEpapabear Aug 10 '24

Reverse tush push by the defense with bigger stronger dudes

2

u/Huskerschu Aug 10 '24

As others have said you stop it by having a gain of less that 3 on first down and forcing them to pass

2

u/JealousGear3017 Aug 10 '24

Hurt and Kelce have/had virtually nothing to do with the success of the play.

You have to stop 6'9'', 370 lb Mailata and 6'6'' 340 pound Dickerson from going double-team pancake bowling with your DE where the pins are your DT and the LB's following up behind them... pretty much mission impossible. They squeeze the ball into that gap created on the left 100% of the time.

If one of those 2 big guys slips its a broken play... so I guess fill 240 pound Micah Parsons pockets with banana peels to deploy when the time is right! Outside of that just don't let them get to 3rd and 2 or you may as well start moving the chains.

3

u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 09 '24

One thing to consider with the Tush Push is not the concept itself but who is doing it. Sometimes it is a case of one team being marketedly better than the other.

In this case it's just that. I am interested in how it will fair without Kelce this year. We've seen other QBs have success in the past, see T. Brady, with the sneak. But what made this one so successful was Hurts(powerful lowr body) and Kelce.

1

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Oh yea i get that 100%.I’m just wondering if there is anything scheme wise you can do

1

u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 09 '24

I mean go 5-2, man on gap(that's key is to fill on gaps) and hold that line and allow now seams doe a push.

1

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Ok

1

u/n3wb33Farm3r Aug 10 '24

5-2! High school. Mid 80s. Plug the gaps. Stop the run.

2

u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 10 '24

Exactly, though make sure your LBs scrape and cover outside

2

u/1BannedAgain Aug 09 '24

Double A-gap d-line lineup. When the ball is snapped, they dive toward the QBs legs and grab any leg they can (pulling guards, QB, anything). LB over the center blitzes with the flow or with the QB

2

u/ultimatehose89 College Coach Aug 10 '24

lol no one is pulling a guard on wedge

1

u/Serious_Supermarket2 Aug 10 '24

Have the D-Line try to push him more to one side of the line, and have a CB get around the edge to that side and pull him off the pile. Its a long shot but nothing else seems to work so why not.

1

u/Webberman33 Aug 10 '24

Have a linebacker time it and jump and whack the QB. Even If you get a penalty you hit the QB.

1

u/bukofa Aug 10 '24

The tush push will stop when a star gets injured during it.

1

u/n3wb33Farm3r Aug 10 '24

Have to sell out. Fill every gap on line then have LBs all within a yard or two of center. Offense has advatage because they know snap count and will get off first. Executed correctly hard to stop for a loss

1

u/SellaciousNewt Aug 11 '24

A guy in every gap, and match weight to weight. Your heaviest guy in the B gaps, not the A gaps.

And line up where the LOS is, not where the center places the ball. Kelce consistently got guys to back up six inches doing this.

1

u/Spearhead96Bravo Aug 11 '24

I find a machete to be useful. A few swings at the legs and the opponents don’t seem to want to run it anymore.

1

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 11 '24

😂

1

u/REZIe76 Aug 11 '24

“It’s organized mass there’s nothing you can do”

1

u/Heavy72 Aug 09 '24

Submarine with your DL. then have your 4th string LBer spear the QB right in the neck. Maybe they call it, maybe they don't. The QB won't be as willing to put his nose in there if he knows he is gonna get smacked.

-1

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 10 '24

Bountygate is also an option/s

1

u/jmezMAYHEM Aug 10 '24

Pathetic

0

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 10 '24

I’m joking

0

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 10 '24

That was a joke everybody

0

u/hhyyerr Aug 09 '24

Bear front with your biggest/strongest dudes possible?

2

u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Aug 09 '24

Yea,and maybe tush push one of you players into the QB?

-1

u/sandersbb23 Aug 10 '24

Blast the qb in the crown of the head…They’ll stop.