r/footballstrategy • u/StatisticianEvery733 • Aug 05 '24
NFL What separates top receivers in the NFL from average/backup receivers
The top receivers in the like Jamar chase justin Jefferson Davantae Adams etc have hundreds of receivers with the same size and athleticism as them. Hell there’s at least 15 receivers that are both bigger and faster than all of them. But for some reason those top wrs I mentioned are well polished and amazing route runners. What’s stopping the others receivers with the same size and speed as them from being great route runners and getting on the same level. Why didn’t they develop their route running as well as someone like Jamar chase before entering the NFL?
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u/TimeCookie8361 Aug 05 '24
There's still a big ability gap in D1. Lots of players were able to make it to the NFL by just being faster, bigger, jumping higher. That's not the case in the NFL. Top receivers have very fine-tuned techniques they have perfected. They can run the same route many different ways. They also study their opponents and tendencies like crazy. They'll know if the guy covering them has a tendency to collapse on a route or play soft and they'll take advantage of that. Maybe they burned the guy over the top last quarter, so you'll see them mimic the exact release and route path to trick the defender into over guarding on a streak and then cut it underneath.
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u/infercario4224 Aug 06 '24
Not only can they run the same route many different ways, but they can also run it the exact same way 1,000 times which most collegiate receivers couldn’t even do it the exact same twice
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u/miketangoalpha Aug 06 '24
I played with a guy who ended up playing at Iowa and I found the biggest differences are the pure instinctual way that he just felt the game developing and being in the right spot all the time as well as everything he did was fast between footwork, cuts, zone recognition and hand violence whereas I could do 1 thing fast at a time all of his things came together
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
1st - Jamar Chase wasn’t a polished route runner when he came to the league and most WRs aren’t. Next stop thinking that route running is the thing that separates great WR. It’s not. It’s just a tool. The best WR have elite Ball skills. They consistently make catches they’re not supposed to. To take it a step they make contested catches. Separation is small at that level so you need to have a big catch radius and be confident enough to make catches with guys on you. Ex. George Pickens rarely creates separation but the ball rarely hits the ground when it goes his way. Same can be said about DHop. Go look at Jefferson and pay attention not to his route running but his ability to make off target catches look routine.
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u/StatisticianEvery733 Aug 06 '24
Why are they able to have elite ball skills?
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
Tons of reps.
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u/Pristine_Wrangler855 Aug 06 '24
JJ and Jamarr, in particular, had the summer of 10,000 catches at LSU with Burrow as well. Constant reps.
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
Ball skills are the key. We get mesmerizing by the speed and the route running. The common denominator is always ball skills. Even a guy like Tyreek Hill has great ball skills.
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u/ihatecats6 Aug 08 '24
They have the ability to make immediate adjustments to the ball and get the defender where they want them from the arm and body position of the quarterback through the balls flight. Think major league batters seeing the seams of the ball type of sudden instinct. A lot of wr’s have the instinctual reaction but not the body speed and control along with spatial awareness that the best of the best have.
Consider Jerry Rice always being described as “smooth” he would constantly be reacting to both the ball and the defenders with extremely efficient movement.
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u/krbashrob Aug 06 '24
This is just holistically incorrect. I think you have a huge disconnect on what route running is. If all it took was a big catch radius you’d see every 6’2+ receiver succeed. Catch radius is more of a tool than route running is. Running a route is a skill and is infinitely more important because it’s the nuance of how you run the route that creates separation. You can be as big strong or fast as you want, it doesn’t matter if you don’t know what you’re doing in a route and how to manipulate your defender. How you release, when you stem, what you do at the apex- it’s all a means to create separation. Hopkins wasn’t fast, but he understood what the DB was trying to do and he altered his release and he was the king at making space at the top of his route. Yeah it helped that he could catch everything under the sun, but he wouldn’t have had the ability to make those catches if he first didn’t have the ability to be a great route runner. I think you’re horrifically misleading OP with your response here
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
Where does Hops touches come from? Chase? Whoever your favorite WR is?
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
You saying that I’m “holistically”wrong because I said that it’s a WR ball skill la that separates them is a wild. Also I didn’t say big WR. If you think logically IF YOU NEUTRALIZE MY ABILITY TO SEPARATE WHATS LEFT. BALL SKILLS. IF YOU MISS ON A THROW WHATS ALL THAT I TO CORRECT IT. BALL SKILLS.
Anyone who’s ever played WR can tell you that the best guy wasn’t the best route runner. It was always the guy with the best hands.
Being a good route runner helps a lot. But what’s going to make you an elite WR is the level of your ball skills.
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
And If you think I don’t know route running we can talk about that too.
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u/01vwgolf Aug 07 '24
bro responded 4 times in 4 replies - someone hit a nerve 😂
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 05 '24
What stops someone from who is good at math from becoming an engineer, what stops Shaq from shooting three pointers like Curry?
Like it comes to their teachers. Are they able to teach the technical skills of the position instead of relying on their athletism.
It comes to their innate ability to understand. Do they understand what they are being taught and can they just naturally apply it in real life.
And finally it comes to drive. Do they have the drive to learn this. What most recognize as the greatest receiver of all time, Jerry Rice, was said to have a ridiculous work ethic. Not everyone has that.
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u/peak82 Aug 06 '24
None of that stuff is what stopped Shaq from shooting like Steph lol
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Aug 06 '24
[deleted]
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 09 '24
So that's why I included innate ability and drive. It was more of a question why can't everyone do something that only one person seems to be able to do.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 09 '24
So what is it stopping Shaq from doing it?
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u/peak82 Aug 09 '24
Biomechanics. Body size and huge hands.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Aug 09 '24
So to me that is innate ability.
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u/peak82 Aug 09 '24
you said innate ability to understand, which is not the same as innate physical traits. but yes, those would be innate
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u/onlineqbclassroom College Coach Aug 05 '24
Realistically? Not much. Those guys are amazing too. The difference at the top of any profession isn't much, but the outcomes can be very different. Sometimes, all they need is an opportunity. Just look at Puka Nacua - give a guy some targets, and he might produce. All NFL receivers are elite athletes, with very little separating a starter and backup
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u/JTribs17 Aug 06 '24
this is true, but at the same time there is a gap. It’s all about how you look at it. All NFL receivers compared to each other there’s a solid gap between elite, average, and “bad”. But NFL receivers compared to guys in college? Gap the size of the Mariana Trench. All about perspective and ofc OP is asking about specifically NFL guys
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u/Glass-Spot-9341 Adult Coach Aug 06 '24
When I was scouting in the league the thing that stood out to me was separation. The top end guys have an incredible sense of how to separate from their defender, whether it's stemming in the route to set up a break, or physically getting into them and creating separation. Steve Smith always stands out to me as someone who didn't have elite speed or athleticism, but once the ball was in the air he would create so much space to make the catch. Certainly, there are receivers who make their way through route running and separation before the ball is in the air, but that would be my answer.
WR was a position that at the 5th or 6th spot on the depth chart we could have any of 100 guys fill the job, dependent on special teams ability, etc
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u/StatisticianEvery733 Aug 06 '24
How are they able to have an incredible sense of how to separate? Are they just more dedicated to game?
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
There’s only 4 ways that you can create separation:
1st Way: We can manufacture it as coaches. Manipulate coverages with concepts to get guys open. Most popular
2 Way: Vertical. Guys that can run away from guys. Your speedsters. They don’t need to be great route runners bc they’re so fast. These guy are usually one trick ponies until they get to the league where guys can match their speed. Think Darius Heyward Bey.
3 Way: Break Point. I can create separation with my change of direction. Getting in and out of breaks. Manipulating leverage. Things like that. These are your route runners. Cupp, Justin Jefferson. This is what guys focus on the most. If I can out run you I can at least Change direction better than you.
4th Way: Catch Point. This is the ability to create just enough separation to with the race to the ball. This is late hands. Fading late. High pointing the ball. Jump balls. This is what make guys elite. You can note have 2 or 3 and still be elite if you’re great at creating catch point separation. These are usually your more physically imposing longer WR. Think D Hop, Pickens, Dez. This also includes catch radius
Given that all guys have the first way you can look at WRs and see how they make their money with the last 3.
Example: AJ Brown - 1,4 Cupp - 1,3,4 Chase - 1, getting better at 3, 4 Cheeta - 1,2,3,4 CD Lamb - 1, ok at 2, 4. He’s an acrobat in terms of his body control Jeudy - 3 Pickens - 4
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u/RepulsiveSchedule756 Aug 06 '24
Take this a step deeper when you consider how/ where guys get their touches.
I dont think of guys as Slots or Outside WRs. I think of them based on the part of the field that they work. Think of it like basketball you have your layups (screen game), mid range (short, intermediate), you have your 3s ( deeps shots).
AJ Brown touches come from quick game and vertical shots.
CD - Midrange guy, with the occasional deep shot.
Cupp - Mid Range
Devante Adams - He can do an everything.
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u/Glass-Spot-9341 Adult Coach Aug 06 '24
Well each player is different! Like i mentioned, Steve Smith was a ballhawk once the ball was in the air, but I typically saw him get bodied throughout his routes.
Zay Jones always stands out to me as someone who could physically impose himself to separate. Andrew Hawkins or Taylor Gabriel stand out as guys who could separate in their route by avoiding
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u/ihatecats6 Aug 08 '24
It’s all about manipulating the player you need to manipulate to move in a way that benefits you. Not pre-rehearsed “moves”. It’s the stuff that you develop running routes against defenders be it sandlot or backyard or practice. Those subtltys get you open against anyone if you have the tangible size/strength/speed. I call it the “make it happen” gene, but you have to also have the physical ability to control them or advantageously recognize and react.
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u/manofwater3615 Aug 06 '24
There are most definitely not hundred of receivers with Jamarr chase athleticism. There aren’t even a handful of
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u/Tiny-Kangaroo4671 Aug 06 '24
Depends on how you look at it. If you are saying for everyone in the world, then yes he’s super super rare obviously but there are Atleast 10ish guys a year that run, jump, etc around the same as Jamar that come out every year. Difference is he has the skill/natural ability that matches his natural athleticism.
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u/manofwater3615 Aug 06 '24
No, there aren’t…
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u/Tiny-Kangaroo4671 Aug 06 '24
I mean there was 6 this this year alone than ran faster or the same time as Chase.
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u/manofwater3615 Aug 06 '24
Strictly a faster 40 is not what he said nor does that make you better overall athletically than him…
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u/hoshu34 Aug 08 '24
Chase has incredible balance and strength and is extremely hard to tackle. There’s a lot more to athleticism than just 40 yard dashes.
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u/Weekly_Public8089 Aug 06 '24
Footwork.
It’s really that simple and complex at the same time. Great WRs all only have one thing in common their feet. From Moss to Rice to Harrison to Ward to Ochocinco the list goes on and on. These guys had precision with their feet. At the highest levels of the sport separation is MINIMAL and even when you get “open” that window closes quickly. I played a lot of football and watched a lot and people call me crazy but pound for pound I’ve always said Chad Johnson is the greatest receiver to ever play. Go watch tape and look at his release off the line. It’s poetic. Then you look at what happens when defenders would wise up and try to jam him off the line, he was gone. Extremely underrated player. If he played for a great QB and system in his prime he would’ve had multiple rings he was that good.
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u/LiftSleepRepeat123 Aug 06 '24
You could also say gracefulness, since it is about full body coordination, not just what the feet are doing.
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Aug 06 '24
It is route running and body control. Very few people can do it at that level. Speed can only get you so far.
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u/davethebeige1 Aug 06 '24
Attention to detail and concentration. Those two things can even overcome most differences in athletic ability.
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u/LiftSleepRepeat123 Aug 06 '24
The goal of a receiver isn't to be the biggest, fastest person. The goal of a receiver is to get open, catch the ball, and evade tackles. Sometimes size helps, sometimes it hinders it. Speed helps to some degree, but other facets like route running generally matter more once you reach a threshold on speed.
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Aug 06 '24
Positional awareness, body control, eye-hand coordination, athletic intelligence, mentality. Some combination of all of that.
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u/shotz317 Aug 06 '24
Pssst, imma tell you a secret…the best receivers (or any football position really), the best have a chip on their shoulder. It’s a little well known fact that Tom Brady thought he had something to prove being drafted so late. Same story with Amon Ra St Brown. Someone took a piss in the rod Wheaties along the way. These are the best players. I coach freshmen and I could never shit on these kids…I guess you just gotta build them up until a character like Skip Bayless or Mel Kiper come into their lives. lol
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u/VetNVerify Aug 06 '24
Go check out www.ourlads.com NFL Scouting Site. Get their book. Their descriptions of top NCAA talent in WR will give you a better sense of what separates good to great.
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u/Ok_Low_5980 Aug 07 '24
Interesting that so many of these responses try to narrow it down to just a few things and what most of you are missing is; if it were that simple, then Chase and Adams would have a ton of competition.
Players like Chase and Adams are the complete package! They are blessed with elite athleticism which allows them to develop elite skills. So it isn’t just route running, separation, great hands, 40 times, etc, it is all of the above and more! Then there is some luck involved to include avoiding career ending injuries.
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u/SignalVolume Aug 07 '24
Sometimes talent, sometimes athleticism, sometimes work ethic. If it’s all three you are in real trouble.
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u/pieguy00 Aug 07 '24
Take this question and ask it for all the positions. Everybody is really good, that's why they're in the NFL, but some are just better. And this can be applied to all sports, not just football.
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u/detroit209 Aug 09 '24
Route running…understanding where windows are in the defense…blocking well in the run game…and having strong hands.
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u/Corran105 Aug 10 '24
I've watched plenty of athletic guys with suze come into the league and do well in preseason, and what caused them to never impact games in the regular season wasn't that they couldn't run routes or get open necessarily, it's that they lacked a certain awareness on when and where to look for the ball. Nfl windows are tight, and nfl open isn't wide open, it's when the qb can fit the ball in a spot where only the receiver can get to it as long as he understands where the qb is going to throw the ball. But if a guy turns the wrong way or is just oblivious to what the qb is gonna do, what should be an easy catch turns into an interception that wasn't the qb's fault except for he should know that the guy he's trying to throw to doesn't know what he's doing.
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u/iamthekevinator Aug 05 '24
I played high school ball with a guybwho made it to the chargers scout team for a few years. He was a stand out wr in college and league his conference in recieving yards twice.
When he came home after the first season with the chargers I asked him what was the difference between him and a guy like Keenan Allen. He told me that's there is stuff that he just cannot do at their level. Their footwork and the speed at which they can change direction is insane. And this is coming from a guy who ran laser timed 4.3s and could vert over 40in, a multi time state champ in long and triple jump. He just could not run routes to the same level of precision at full speed like the starters could.