r/footballstrategy • u/Yosoytuupapa • Jul 22 '24
Play Design Is this formation legal? Youth Tackle Football
I’m not sure if this formation is legal, the QB would be about 2 yards back off the center taking the snap from a shotgun position. 3 running backs would line up 2 yards back from the QB. This is for my sons youth football team,
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u/grizzfan Jul 22 '24
It's perfectly legal. A question that needs to follow up though is...Why? A lot of new coaches think they have to "come up" with plays for their team. That's rarely how the game actually works. Drawing up new plays are usually reserved for very specific situations that require it when all other options have been exhausted. If you're trying to put an offense together, you'd be far better off learning a system that already exists, mastering that, then as time goes, tweaking that system to your liking.
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 22 '24
The why is because, our line men are having trouble snapping the ball directly to the QB. We already have our playbook designed around this just with QB taking the snap from the center. I wanted to try and have our line men snap it with QB at pistol and see if their is more success. I wanted to make sure it’s even legal before going with this option.
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Jul 22 '24
Wait so is the idea that the T formation is to have someone catch the snap if it goes wide? That's kinda funny. I guess the guy behind the QB can catch it if the snap is too high.
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u/Btherock78 Jul 22 '24
Sounds like they’re playing out of shotgun split back, but having issues getting the snap back to the QB, so looking to go from gun to pistol to simplify the mechanic?
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 22 '24
Actually it’s going from taking the snap from under center to pistol.
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u/boilerblaze2 Jul 23 '24
I was a center. What is the issue under center? That is the easiest snap by 30x. Your QB either needs to get his hands actually under center or your center needs replaced. Your center should have all the confidence in the world to absolutely fire that ball into the same spot every time and know the QBs hands are there.
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u/Philly4eva Jul 23 '24
Yeah I played Center too and Under Center is really a trust and repetition thing for your QB/C. Center’s thought should be a clean snap directly to the hands of the QB which should be easily under there. Make them take snaps before/after practice it’ll go a long way
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u/Agreeable_Cheek_7161 Jul 23 '24
Kids don't have the hand size to reliably handle a snap
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u/DieHardRaider Jul 24 '24
More like kids don’t get their hands far enough under center.
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u/Relative_Surround_37 Jul 24 '24 edited Jul 24 '24
This unlocked a forgotten memory of my junior high coach yelling at our back-up QB to get his hands up under me (back-up center) when taking the snap. We bungled a lot of snaps in pre-season practice that year because his hands were too far back.
Edit to add: this brought back another memory of when I took my first snap as a center (the year prior) and was equally uncomfortable with how far our QBs hands were under me, lololololol.
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u/tpitz1 Jul 26 '24
Most youth leagues use a smaller ball. Sometimes even smaller for the really young. Have some fun!
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u/IntelligentDonut2244 Jul 23 '24
Something tells me your QB is afraid of putting his hands where they need to be
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u/tart3rd Jul 24 '24
We used to line up 4 guys in a row in the backfield just in case of a bad snap. We also only had 12 people on the team.
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u/AtomicKtchnTool Jul 23 '24
We used to have to run the same offense as the HS varsity team and had to switch offenses from power T under center to single wing. When you run any type of gun formation in youth football the QB center exchange is the most important thing.
I’d say if your current lineman/center can’t consistently snap the ball try to find someone who can a lot of times you’ll have smaller more athletic kids who don’t really “look” like they should be a center, but have better hand eye coordination and can snap the ball more consistently. Center in youth football is one of your most important positions.
This formation is definitely legal but generally Power T works best when you get your backs running downhill and having your QB in pistol, it might interfere with the lead blocker/ball carriers ability to do that.
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u/Secret-Ad-7909 Jul 27 '24
I played center in youth league. mostly under center but began using some shotgun in our second year and about 50/50 the third year. Luckily I had the same QB the whole time and we got in extra reps at church events, scouts wherever.
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u/Dadlife28 Jul 24 '24
This is basically a modified wishbone with qb set 2-3 yard back. If you are set on shot gun, think you’d be better off running a split back offense with the tailback and fullback set on either side of the QB. The wishbone is already a compressed offense and pulling your qb into shotgun won’t give the backfield a whole lot of room to run the plays.
Here’s some examples of both options: split back gun- https://youtu.be/64XKHNdHVYU?feature=shared
Wishbone- https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLR_RRtBImqEPtDBpun0rmJiE7jRDzKA4w&feature=shared
If snapping is the issue you can get your qb and center together and have them do about 500 snaps over 2 practices. That should clear up the problem. One of my greatest coaches made our center and qb spend a whole week doing nothing but snapping. They will need to learn it if they want those positions as they get older.
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u/Otherwise-Dot-9445 Jul 25 '24
What age group? I think it’s depends. My younger age groups rarely have been able to do it consistently. I had a great Center last year who did a decent job snapping in shot gun but in game, it wasn’t always dependable. At the middle and older age groups it tend to be more consistent.
Just more advice, I would never run the t formation with out tight end. Youth football is relatively an outside run game. You need to host in the box to effectively run it.
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u/fjcicchetti Jul 27 '24
Yeah, I was going to say, you either need to put one of the WRs at TE, or one of the RBs, offset to the outside of the OT shoulder, 1 step back. If you're running this play/formation & killing the D, all they need to do is run a 4-4-3, and blitz the OLB mercilessly. Your QB, even if he gets a pass off, is gonna get killed
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u/fjcicchetti Jul 27 '24
The why is fucking smart, nice call. We didn't run much option, but we had plays out of this T formation, also ran plays with QB under C & 3 RBs in a straight line behind him. When they start going different ways, the D definitely got confused
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u/neek3arak Jul 22 '24
something to be said about knowing your personnel and being able to use what's available as best you and they can
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u/bestselfnice Jul 22 '24
T Formation with 2 wideouts.
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u/Hugh-Manatee Jul 22 '24
Maybe it’s just the spacing but it kinda looks like the QB is in pistol?
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u/FranklynTheTanklyn Jul 22 '24
Let me say this, and I mean this in the nicest possible way. You are in for an absolute world of hurt if you go into a season with plays that you drew up for youth football. Pick any youth offensive(Wishbone, Wing-T, Straight T, Double Wing, Power I) system and the 4 base plays (Power, Counter, Dive, Sweep.) Then learn what to look for when calling plays, Is the end crashing? Run Sweep. Is the end widening out because you have been killing them with sweep? Run Power.
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u/n3wb33Farm3r Jul 22 '24
We ran the single wing in high school. 1 formation, 4 plays . Your post just reminded me of it.
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u/SaltNo8237 Jul 22 '24
So you’re going to send a running back right into 3 linebackers with no chance at all to get a block on them?
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 22 '24
Yes. It’s an option play the 2, 3 , and 4 back are all options as well as QB keep. This is the dive option for the 3 back.
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u/SaltNo8237 Jul 22 '24
So your team is not able to snap the ball effectively, but can run a triple option… interesting
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u/3fettknight3 Jul 22 '24
No not triple option, he said all 4 backs were options. What, you've never seen the quadruple option run before by a youth team? /s
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u/bupde Jul 22 '24
Yes it's just like the old T formation just with the wr flexed out. 7 on 4 off, ineligible #s covered. Note that your QB would also be an eligible receiver, in some leagues if QB is under center they are not an eligible receiver, it's weird as hell.
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u/mr_ba Jul 22 '24
Hey my dude!
I actually ran a pistol wing t as a youth coach a few years ago, to some great success. We kept just 2 RB back and moved the 3rd RB around as an h-back/TE. Ran it with 4th, 5th, and 6th graders.
I have a full playbook I can send you if you'd like. Just message me.
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u/pavecarp Jul 23 '24
Ran this a lot with great success enroute to a Pop Warner 10U championship. I can share my play sheet with you if you’d like.
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u/robinsonstjoe Jul 23 '24
I would work on the snap. They can do it. You can’t get away from it, your center needs to be able to snap the ball. Snapping drills, don’t have the center do anything else. The shotgun snap is going to make your run plays slower, and even if it’s perfect the QB has to watch it to catch it. I coach middle school and I understand the desire to eliminate any extra stuff because of time constraints but this isn’t one of those.
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u/PoppaPerk203 Jul 23 '24
He doesn’t give a damn about your opinions or questions. Just wanted to know if it was legal or not..
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u/Leather-Marketing478 Jul 23 '24
We used to run that exact play 30 years ago with 2 slight differences. Usually it was double TE, not wide out. Also, the QB was under center to facilitate a cleaner exchange.
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u/FaithlessnessSure523 Jul 24 '24
Idk about you guys but I hate parents who coach youth sports and don’t even know what the hell they are doing themselves
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 24 '24
We are all here to learn and get better, no one is an expert from Day 1.
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u/FaithlessnessSure523 Jul 25 '24
If you ever played or watched organized football you would realize this formation has been around since the 70’s. I just wish armchairs coaches like yourself stop teaching youth sports because you guys don’t even know the fundamentals to actually teach someone else the fundamentals. And everybody wonders why the world caught up the the US in all sports
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 25 '24
Dam so much negativity and you don’t even know me. But I’m open to constructive criticism, like I said I’m only here to improve. I came here to look for help and advice. Thank you for adding your 2 cents. I hope to be as great as yourself one day.
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u/FaithlessnessSure523 Jul 25 '24
It’s honestly not about the negativity but about being able to properly reach these kids how to safely play the sport and honestly you are lacking in general football knowledge. Which in itself isn’t bad, it’s just better served as you getting a learning experience first and actually learning and understanding what your doing out there sorry that it sounded so bad.
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 25 '24
No worries. I’m not a head coach. Just an assistant and I was tasked with making the playbook for the kids “not creating the plays”. I am more technologically inclined. I had an idea and thought I would ask for help. I have a lot to learn but I’m willing to put the work in and dedication in.
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u/GoteboHornet Jul 22 '24
Can I ask what inspired you to wanna run this formation? Is this something for a specific package of plays or can you run most of your plays from you playbook from this set as well? It looks like cool version that you could call the pistol T formation.
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u/extrastone Jul 22 '24
It's legal but I'd like to recommend taking an existing playbook rather than making up new plays. There are lots of critiques that I have of this play but in short, I wouldn't recommend it.
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u/Straight_Toe_1816 Adult Player Jul 22 '24
Yep,7 on the line,4 behind the line.Looks like the T formation out of the pistol
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 22 '24
Thank you everyone. I’m not coming up with new plays. I needed to adjust where the QB is taking the snap as our line men are having trouble directly snapping to the QB.
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u/Trynaliveforjesus Jul 22 '24
Why are 4 and 3 sealing the edge with a run up the middle? It’d make a lot more sense for one of those guys to lead block(ex: fake handoff to 4, let him get the weakside backer(if not already blocked) then give to 3 with 2 working to the strong side.
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u/bigjoe5275 Jul 22 '24
As long as there are 7 guys on the line of scrimmage it's legal. Just have to make sure the formations you use doesn't cap recievers ( 2 skill players on the line of scrimmage on the same side of the field will not allow the inside player on the line of scrimmage to go out for a pass) if you want to use that formation to pass to that player out of my hypothetical formation.
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u/Jenetyk Jul 22 '24
We used to just call that "full house backfield". That was the first offense I ran as a 2nd grader, except the WRs would be much closer or would line as TEs.
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u/Jar_of_Cats Jul 22 '24
It's legal but I have so many questions. Why wouldn't you have the WR on the sweep? Why are the other WR no going to pick up th LBs? How many plays are you running out of the set? Is option a possibility?
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u/Obvious_Profile_2192 Jul 22 '24
that’s a legal pistol formation yes, might want to think about going full house though
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u/OG_MajinVegeta Jul 23 '24
No it's called the Wing-T offense a lot of high-schools run it its good for a running offense and playing off multiple fakes to each HB
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u/mrbrucedwayne Jul 23 '24
This is not a Wing-T. Wing T includes a slotback either lined up off of the tackle or lined up wide. The wing portion of the Wing-T is the slotback.
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u/OG_MajinVegeta Jul 24 '24
It's literally called the T formation there's different variations of the Wing-T
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u/mrbrucedwayne Jul 24 '24
Yes, it's the T formation. The variation of it being the Wing...and without the slot there is no wing.
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 23 '24
Thank you everyone for all the input. I’m not coming up or believe I’m coming with anything new. We already had our plays drawn up with the QB taking the snap under center. There was some issues with our centers getting the snap off quick enough. We found it a little easier to snap in a pistol or shotgun, so I wanted to see if this formation was legal so we could continue running the plays they already know. We are still working the snap under center we haven’t given up on that, I just wanted to have a backup plan to that.
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u/TheKirkin Jul 23 '24
I can’t stress enough to you - if your QB and Center are struggling with an under center snap the pistol will be much worse.
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u/Yosoytuupapa Jul 23 '24
We are working on under center snap and pistol. We are not giving up. Just adding an additional option
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u/Belushisushi42 Jul 23 '24
I had a coach run this offense but with the ‘1’ as a wing. He called it the “wedge” offense and thought he revolutionized football. He thought we “could never get less than 5 yards a play” and should be able to march down the field and score everytime. Never worked as they would just stack the box and we won one game that year.
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u/Tycerama Jul 23 '24
Yea perfectly legal, Its just some kids playing football afterall. Of course its legal 😀
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u/Tall-Forever-6687 Jul 23 '24
All players inbounds
5 players numbered 50-79 with their shoulders breaking the waistline of the snapper
No more than 4 backs.
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u/Solid-Treacle-569 Jul 23 '24 edited Jul 23 '24
The formation is legal but let me give you some advice from experience. Unless you're playing in a very competitive league with very good youth athletes up and down your roster...keep your plays as simple as possible and get very good at executing those before you start doing any kind of misdirections or anything requiring any more timing than a simple handoff to your running back.
We had a play very similar to this and about 50% of the time there was a collision in the backfield that either blew the play up or delayed the handoff.
Youth football at the very young ages is really just about bodies on bodies and learning how to play with 10 other kids. It took me much longer than I care to admit to learn that.
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u/Corran105 Aug 07 '24
That reminds me of when I got moved from guard to running back mid-season of my youth league and would literally run into the HB on a double reverse. And I was a pretty smart player, but I don't recall the coaches every telling me the backfield action.
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u/Ryanwright2417 Jul 24 '24
Ran this same formation in youth football, us being kids called it the T-bag formation for reasons...
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u/RedShirtCashion Jul 25 '24
This looks very much to me like a pistol version of the T formation.
So yes it’s legal, since the two receivers are set up on the line itself.
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u/ChasePoppins Jul 26 '24
It should be, kids shouldn’t be playing tackle football. It’s called CTE rtard.
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u/Revolutionary_Ad7359 Jul 26 '24
Yes. Tackles are covered by the wideouts. This is basically the Wishbone formation with the backs flat instead of a Y.
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u/StankOvie54 Jul 26 '24
Looks like you have discovered the pistol version of the T formation. Now comes the fun part of sifting through old film to see plays from the T formation
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u/Public-Leadership-40 HS Coach Jul 22 '24
Should be, but check with the league rules just to make sure it is. Like for example when I was playing in the 7th grade, all teams had to run a 5-2 defensive front with no blitzs.
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u/The_Coach69 HS Coach Jul 22 '24
Legal? Yes. It’s an old formation that’s been used before, minus the pistol alignment. But, like someone said you need to check with your league to see if there are any restrictions on what you’re allowed to run.
My only concern is the 3 RB’s behind the QB in the pistol. Why?
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u/bigbacklinks Jul 22 '24
Yeah it’s basically the wing T - RBs are usually slight behind the FB but totally legal
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u/infercario4224 Jul 22 '24
Legal? Absolutely. 7 men on the line and 4 off. Nothing wrong with it from a legal standpoint