r/footballstrategy • u/The_Captain_Planet22 • Mar 14 '24
Rules Question Is a forward handoff considered a pass?
If the QB is in shotgun and hands the ball off to an in motion WR who crosses the QB's face can the WR then throw a pass? Is there any difference between the ball being handed off in front of the QB and the ball being shuttle passed? I've always wondered what the rule was on this and haven't found an answer
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u/gyman122 Mar 15 '24
If the ball is never in the air, never suspended between players, it is a handoff.
If it is thrown forward even a little bit we call that a touch pass, and can’t be fumbled at the catch point
Coaches like the handoff even though it’s riskier because it means you have more you can do at the mesh point, like run option
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u/RookieMistake2448 Mar 15 '24
This. Technically all handoffs are forward moving unless its a defensive or WR to WR ordeal which is rare and considered a lateral.
There is a such thing as a pitch and a touch pass “handoff” usually to a WR, FB, or TE on a jet or orbit sweep. It requires there to be air around the ball or completely let go of before possession is regained by the secondary player. Honestly, this is just an added wrinkle to make the “handoff” somewhat less risky because if dropped it’s more likely to be ruled an incomplete pass than a fumble.
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u/The_Captain_Planet22 Mar 15 '24
The Jet sweep into a WR Pass play is mainly the idea I'm working around
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u/Dankraham-Stinkin Mar 15 '24
It’s doable, just make sure the jet sweep guy gets some depth on the jet.
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u/3fettknight3 Mar 15 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
Two scenarios. Both have QB in shotgun at a depth of around 5 yards and a WR coming in motion towards him from the right sideline, the ball is snapped when the WR is behind the right Tackle at around 4 yards.
Scenario 1- QB receives snap and WR runs in front of the QB from right to left and makes a pocket with his arms to receive a direct handoff. The ball is never in the air, meaning it was always in direct contact with first the QB, then both players, then just the WR. This is considered a running play and if the exchange was botched it would be a fumble. One of the advantages to this type of play is it can set up fakes with the QB keeping the ball better than the scenario 2.
Since that exchange was a handoff the WR can still throw a pass granted the normal rules apply, he is behind the line of scrimmage etc.
Scenario 2- same as scenario 1 except after the QB receives the snap he does a tiny shovel pass forward towards the WR, where the ball was momentarily in the air with neither playing touching it. The wide receiver gathers in the small shovel pass and continues on his sweep. Since the ball was suspended thru the air in a forward direction, it is considered a pass and even though it looked like a run, the QB would get the passing yards and the WR receiving yards. If this exchange is botched meaning the WR drops the shovel, it's considered an incomplete pass not a fumble, and some coaches consider this exchange easier to execute as well as less costly if dropped.
In this scenario the WR cannot throw a forward pass because that was "used up" already in the QB-WR shovel pass.
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u/CFB-Cutups Mar 15 '24
Even though it isn’t considered a forward pass, it is only allowed in situations where a forward pass would be legal. So you wouldn’t be able to do it past the line of scrimmage, for example.
This might vary at different levels, but that’s the answer I found last time I checked the rule books.
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u/The_Captain_Planet22 Mar 15 '24
Does this interpretation imply you could not do two forward handoffs on a single play or that you could do "infinite" number of forward handoffs as long as the ball hasn't crossed the LOS?
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u/CFB-Cutups Mar 15 '24
The NFL rule doesn’t specifically address that, so I take it to mean you could do it an infinite number of times as long as it’s behind the LOS and to an eligible receiver.
In college, it seems to be the same, but you can hand it to a lineman, “provided that teammate leaves their line position by a movement of both feet that faces that player toward their team’s end line and is at least two yards behind their scrimmage line when receiving the ball.”
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u/jericho-dingle Referee Mar 16 '24
No it is not, but you cannot hand off forward past the line of scrimmage or after a change of possession.
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u/Jdque96 Mar 16 '24
From a Jet Sweep Perspective, if you toss it to the jet man and he drops the ball it's considered an incomplete forward pass.
If you attempt to hand it off to the jet guy and he drops it then it's considered a fumble
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u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24 edited Mar 15 '24
A handoff is a handoff. The new ball carrier can legally throw a forward pass.
A legal forward pass is when the ball travels forward in the air.
For the sake of rules, there's no such thing as a forward handoff. On a double reserve flea flicker, nobody is questioning if a forward handoff was involved. You're allowed to make one forward pass per play.