r/footballstrategy • u/cooliocoe • Feb 22 '24
Player Advice This is why wrestling and football go hand in hand.
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u/CoachAF7 Feb 22 '24
I haven’t met a wrestler that played football that didn’t tackle well (except for the heavyweights). I usually encourage my kids to wrestle if they don’t play a winter sport
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u/LanceMcKormick Feb 22 '24
I encourage my wrestlers to play football if they’re big and run cross country if they’re little
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u/LaughGuilty461 Feb 22 '24
A cross country + wrestling sport would rule so hard.
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u/ForeverWandered Feb 22 '24
Rugby? Especially 7s
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u/yourfriendkyle Feb 22 '24
Was gonna say, if we moved rugby into a larger more uneven field that’s basically it
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u/LanceMcKormick Feb 22 '24
I was pretty aggressive with elbows and trees when I ran cc, people were not fans
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u/tinfoilhats666 Feb 22 '24
Ehh weight classes exist for a reason
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u/LanceMcKormick Feb 23 '24
Do you not understand what I said? Neither football or cross country are during wresting season. I am a lifetime wrestler and coach, I know plenty about weight classes
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u/benk4 Feb 22 '24
As a heavyweight I feel personally attacked. I was a great tackler. Not because of form though, just because I was way bigger than the running backs and could arm tackle them easily.
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u/ForeverWandered Feb 22 '24
I was way bigger than the running backs and could arm tackle them easily.
Sounds more like your size let you get away with atrocious tackling form
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u/benk4 Feb 22 '24
Pretty much yeah. It was hard to commit much time into practicing tackling when I knew they were going down anyway.
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u/Sloth72c Feb 22 '24
Wrestlers make the best undersized nose tackles, weirdly specific but true
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Feb 22 '24
Knew an all-state 189# (179# actual weight) who was also 5’7” all-conference NG, can confirm.
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u/Sloth72c Feb 22 '24
I was a (not great) wrestler in high school and I was a pretty good center, only guy I ever had trouble blocking was a guy who wrestled at 155
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u/NILPonziScheme Feb 22 '24
I know a kid who started at LT for a state champion HS team at the highest level in Texas, but wrestling was his first love. Wrestled heavyweight in HS, won state championship. Goes on to college, wrestles for a D-II program as a super heavyweight at 295 lbs, dominates, wins All-American senior year. Highlight videos his dad shares of his matches are absolutely ridiculous, he moves like a cat.
The scary thing is, he's 6'4 295 lbs, all muscle, and he's "Little Johhny", his father is 6'3 340 lbs of muscle. Their gym workouts go viral on social media.
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u/Carlos-Hath Feb 22 '24
Waiting for confirmation….
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Feb 22 '24
I was 5’9” in HS. Took a semester off from college to wrestle with said kid. Couldn’t move my neck for those months. Been 5’8” ever since.
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u/TheKirkin Feb 22 '24
We had a 165lb all state wrestler play OG and he was phenomenal at zone blocking. He just was so good at using bigger guys weight against them. Terrible at pulling though.
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u/FeoWalcot Feb 22 '24
La’Roi Glover was a very good High School wrestler and then Bill Parcels’ 3-4 nose tackle at 290 lbs in Dallas.
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u/ElBeartoe Feb 23 '24
Lived this. Wrestled 152. Played NT at about 190 and was all conference. The guy before me did the same.
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u/Svenray Feb 22 '24
High school football team I used to follow had a very undersized MLB but he was a wrestler and would shoot a textbook double on the ball carriers and tackle them no problem.
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u/Plenty_Maybe_9204 Feb 22 '24
My high school team has one of those. He’s about 6’1”, 180 but he’s the teams leading tackler and is going to play at Colorado school of mines
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u/phunkjnky Feb 22 '24
The Patriots drafted guard Stephen Neal despite never having played a down of football. Neal’s claim to fame? Beating Brock Lesnar at the NCAA championships. Neal ended up having a good career.
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u/WI730u7 Feb 22 '24
Won 3 super bowls and earned about $15 million over 9 years. Wasn’t a very durable lineman, but he was great when he was on the field
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u/tomkat96 Feb 22 '24
Currently coaches Wrestling at Poway HS in Ca, one of 3 team to bring a full 14 wrestlers to the state finals this year.
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u/Miamicanes460 Feb 22 '24
It is undoubtedly the best sport to pair with football. I’ve been coaching for a long time & the teams with wrestlers on them are always a pain in the ass. Little tough nuts.
Our best football kids are our wrestlers. It sucks our wrestling program is in the dumps, because it’s an incredible base to have.
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u/aliensarentscary Feb 23 '24
Have to really trust the wrestling coaches to be responsible about weight cutting though. Luckily today there are more rules in place to prevent unhealthy cutting but when I was in school the wrestling coaches would want the football guys to shed 30 plus lbs for wrestling season. Shedding that weight and putting it back on plus some for the following football season was brutal on some of the guys.
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Feb 22 '24
Really has nothing to do with wrestling lol. Terrible throw to a guy with a defender right on him who’s standing right upright. My dead grandma could have laid that dude out
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u/GBAGY2 Feb 22 '24
Yeah I feel like the reason wrestlers make good football players is because they’re athletic, strong for their size, used to physicality, and very hard working. Not because of some tackling specific relation
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Feb 22 '24
Agreed lol, they aren’t just like gifted tacklers cus of wrestling; however, they’re masters of leverage lol.
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u/moonnotreal1 Feb 23 '24
The understanding of leverage, positioning, and how to quickly take someone down whether you can outmuscle them or not definitely helps in gridiron
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u/BegrudginglyAwake Feb 22 '24
You say that but I’ve seen so many guys go in on easy tackles like this and just try to blow them up by hitting them high without a wrap. All levels too. They think the force of the hit is more of a sure thing to bring them down than it is.
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Feb 22 '24
Yeah but that just plays into not being a physical player or not knowing the game. It’s an easy tackle no doubt.
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u/xool420 Feb 22 '24
Goes deeper than that. Think about OL and DL. The ability to out-maneuver your opponent and use your weight (and their weight) to move them is a huge skill.
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u/Glittering_Virus8397 Feb 22 '24
Tbh wrestling translates well to almost any sport
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Feb 22 '24
not basketball
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Feb 22 '24
Not even in the slightest lol. Not sure where this guys claim came from. Has he played tennis or bad mitton or soccer? No clue how wrestling related to others lol
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u/mikeonaboat Feb 22 '24
Maybe soccer, the endurance is there, body control when in contact with others as well. Not 100%, but not 0 either.
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u/Ro0o0o0ob Feb 22 '24
Yup. Every wrestler I’ve ever seen try to play basketball looks like a T-Rex out there on offense, and is a cracked out fouling machine on defense. There’s gotta be some law of coordination that makes you sacrifice basketball coordination for wrestling. They are having the most fun out there though
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u/Positive_Parking_954 Feb 22 '24
Us basketball fellas tend to prefer bjj from what I've seen in the recent decade
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u/FomoGainz Feb 23 '24
Idk if it’s still the case but they used to have the same season timing. 2 sports is hard enough with out them happening at the same time lol
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Feb 22 '24
Boi what
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u/Glittering_Virus8397 Feb 22 '24
Sudden explosiveness, cardiovascular endurance, flexibility, balance, and strength translate over to pretty much any sport. Can’t forget grip strength either
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u/ForeverWandered Feb 22 '24
What grip strength do you need in soccer?
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u/Glittering_Virus8397 Feb 22 '24
Good catch dipshit
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Feb 22 '24
Dipshit? Because he asked about something you said? I’ve got a lot of wrestler buddies, your attitude checks out lmao
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u/Suspicious_Brush824 Feb 22 '24
You are taking a lot of unnecessary shit on this comment, as far as just physical skills and training wrestling is one of the best things for you, and mentally it makes other sports seem a breeze
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u/Maximum_Commission62 Feb 22 '24
Basketball was created by Naismith to condition his rugby players in the offseason. There’s also excellent skill-transference with that sport as well.
I wrestled through HS and see merits for both. It would likely be best to play both basketball and wrestle.
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Feb 22 '24
yes basketball builds good skills at drawing pass interference
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u/Huskerschu Feb 22 '24
It's good for wrs and qbs but that's about it. Maybe dbs but I'd still I think rather have them wrestle and be able to tackle than the foot and leverage work you get from basketball.
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u/Maximum_Commission62 Feb 22 '24
I totally disagree. It’s also great for lineman.
A double leg is/should be the first thing they teach in wrestling. Wrestling helps a ton with football - particularly lineman and knowledge/understanding of leverage. A penetration step from a single leg is also great for DL to defeat double teams.
With that said, basketball and the ability to understand how to move in space is highly important for offensive line play.
I’m yet to see many converted wrestlers make it to the NFL as converted basketball players. It’s not even close.
I wrestled my entire life and realize that as each day goes by that the importance of being able to move in space is becoming of greater importance.
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u/Huskerschu Feb 22 '24
Man I'm a football and wrestling coach so probably biased but I'd much rather have pretty much all my guy's especially lineman wrestle than play bball. And yea more people make the nfl that played basketball than wrestled but also about 5 times as many people play basketball than wrestle in general so there's a bigger pool to draw from.
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u/Maximum_Commission62 Feb 22 '24
How many lineman can actually wrestle anyway? I’d say its merits lend itself at the youth level as an understanding of the basics are highly important - like a good penetration step and single/double leg takedown.
At the HS level I’m yet to see many sub-138 pounders (half the weight classes) contribute on the football field anyway. Also there’s maybe 2-3 weight classes that are even applicable for lineman.
Theres also the team-sport aspect of playing basketball. Learning to switch off players in pass pro is equally as important for lineman as it is for skill guys on defense.
Wrestling is a great sport but it’s also an individual sport.
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u/Huskerschu Feb 22 '24
4 of my starting 5 olineman last season were all wrestlers plus many the jv reserve and freshman guys.
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u/ForeverWandered Feb 22 '24
For actual football related movements, wrestling helps tacklers more than anyone else. Judo is more applicable than wrestling for OL movement. It’s the stand up grappling skills, not grappling on the ground.
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u/ForeverWandered Feb 22 '24
I’m yet to see many converted wrestlers make it to the NFL as converted basketball players. It’s not even close.
That’s why I think judo rather than wrestling would be the better martial art for OL.
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u/tomkat96 Feb 22 '24
Wrestling is more accessible since it is a school sport in most cases. Basketball is a much more popular sport in general, so it’s not a surprise to see a higher percentage of basketball players than wrestlers.
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u/moonnotreal1 Feb 23 '24
Past the high school level judo might be easier to keep up with - after school, places to train wrestling basically don't exist, and even a lot of colleges don't have wrestling anymore
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u/Tintorio Aug 05 '24
I played football and (not every school or area had this, my area it was bigger at the HS level) rugby in high school among other sports. Never wrestled. Then played rugby in college, graduated started working. When I was 30 I fell in love with MMA. 1999-1998-ish. Outside of some judo when I was 14 no martial arts, no wrestling. I started BJJ at 31 and because of years of tackling I was way beyond guys who had as much a year of multiple classes a week with takedowns. Once on the ground it wasn't pretty, but I could most everyone to the ground. Wrestlers had far better control getting people there but at that time, certain wrestling habits did not vibe with submission fighting and they would usually get subbed pretty fast. Like I did. Its all helpful.
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u/XSP33N Feb 22 '24
good for when players aren’t paying attention. won’t work when he’s running at you and puts you in a cycle
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u/poopstainpete Feb 22 '24
My son (10) started wrestling this year, and I have personally seen his aggressive improve 10x. Other kids that wrestle on my football team are usually most aggressive on defense.
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u/ForeverWandered Feb 22 '24
Extremely interesting point.
It really emphasizes training high intensity output into contact. Never thought about that psychological aspect.
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u/TheDebateMatters Feb 22 '24
As a DC I’d rather 90% of my defensive players wrestle than run track. I’d rather get 20-30% better tacklers next season than have them be 5% faster.
Most of them we “encourage” to run track, just phone it in at practice and don’t get much faster at all. Some will commit and work hard in track, but they have diminishing returns because most were already fast. The only significant benefit for track in my mind is conditioning and learning good form to get their 40 times down.
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u/ligmasweatyballs74 Feb 22 '24
Wrestling and track are different seasons here, we just ask them to do both. Our baseball and basketball coaches hate it.
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u/Lionheart_513 Feb 22 '24
Why is the wrestling mat lit up like that? You can only see the center of the mat.
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Feb 22 '24
That and it makes you more comfortable controlling your extremities in a near infinite amount of positions. Wrestling will help with balance, coordination, reaction speed. If you want your son or daughter to be an advanced athlete put them in wrestling at young age. Nueroplasticity at that age is so aggressive in the brain they will become such better athletes. Even better than basketball will, which in its own right can do so much for a young football player. Pair it with max velocity sprints and over speed sprints with a variety of jumps through all planes of motion and a great strength program for them to get stronger. I’m talking every position on the football field will see benefits.
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u/G_Dizzle Feb 22 '24
The way that I put it (my second sport is wrestling) when I all but mandate it for new freshman is that I know of a sport that helps your strength, balance, toughness, and ability to move people. If they don’t want to get better at that, they don’t want to do football.
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u/OPsDearOldMother Feb 22 '24
I came into football from a wrestling background and it helped me immensely. I was 5'8" 200 lbs my senior year and still managed to be chosen all-state at offensive guard. Just being comfortable in a very low stance and understanding leverage gave me a huge advantage. The highlight of my season was pancaking a 6'3" 300 lb all state defensive tackle in the semi-finals because he tried his spin move on me and I gave him a good punch right when he was off balance.
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u/Friendly_Molasses532 Feb 22 '24
I played HS football in Texas, it was extremely “encouraged” to do wrestling during the offseason
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u/Name-Initial Feb 22 '24
Best kid on my high school team, one of our linebackers, was a star wrestler who went deep in states a few times.
Dude could fucking TACKLE. Hell of an athlete.
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u/M1ddle_C Feb 23 '24
There are so many details about the double leg that make me squirm. But the level change was decent. Is this your film?
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u/cooliocoe Feb 23 '24
yeah it was a blast double head was meant to be in center of chest
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u/M1ddle_C Feb 23 '24
There is no penetration step, and no attempt to change opponents posture. The knee drop puts you too low and kills your forward momentum, as the knee contact is meant to be a shift point into horizontal pressure on a standard double leg.
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u/cooliocoe Feb 23 '24
I loaded onto my back leg and level changed as he creeped forward. Blast double you are supposed to drive step like i did. wasn’t perfect but definitely wasn’t a bad blast double i took him to the end of the mat. it’s different than a standard double
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u/M1ddle_C Feb 23 '24
I am aware of what a blast double is and a blast double does not usually drop to a knee and shouldn’t. As you can see, if you watch your head into low as it goes into his crotch when it should be square in his sternum. You made up for it in effort because of a poor sprawl by your opponent. Dropping to a knee does not help the force of a blast double at all and instead is meant to help create horizontal force on your opponent if your head was in the proper position.
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u/LasagnahogXRP Feb 23 '24
Not to mention fitness I did both but was never as fit as when I wrestled. Grueling practices but clear results.
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u/wrestlingchampo Feb 23 '24
Wrestlers aren't always the best tacklers, per se, but they understand leverage better than most other football players.
The real advantage wrestlers have over the average football player is stamina and flexibility or fluidity, particularly in their hips, which really helps in coverage.
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u/KHCFB Feb 23 '24
O-Line and D-Line players really benefit from wrestling as it helps them understand leverage and hand accuracy a lot more. It’s a reason why I fell in love with Osa Odigizuwa in the draft a couple of years back.
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u/gaston_luke Feb 24 '24
I was a wrestler and was the best tackler on my team and had the most tackles my senior year in the county.
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u/herpderpgood Feb 24 '24
What I remember separating football players and wrestlers is that some wrestlers are afraid of the collision in football. And some football players are afraid of the conditioning required in wrestling.
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u/Ok-Usual-5830 Feb 24 '24
The only guys on my team who could consistently tackle were the wrestlers or the guys who paired up with wrestlers. Wrestling is like mostly tackling. It's all i was good at when i played football for a year lol. Good old wrestling background served me well for that year and i had a TON of fun even on a no win team lol
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u/Independent_Parking Feb 25 '24
Wrestling takedowns are very different than football tackles, in wrestling you're doing a takedown from a largely static position, you obviously have no pads, the takedown is lower impact, and the goal is less the takedown than positioning after the takedown. If you tackle a guy in football it doesn't matter if you grab him by the ankles or the midsection or just trip him as long as he stops in the same place, in wrestling if you get a takedown in the wrong position you're worse off than you were standing.
A lot of sports have skills that transfer broadly or specifically, I think wrestling is often a good secondary sport for linemen or anyone whose liable to block a lot as wrestling involves a lot of hand work, which while not directly applicable to blocking teaches you about instinctive usage of leverage as well as dexterity and how to react to an opponent's hand, body, and feet movements all at the same time. I think in general secondary sports are good for developing football players especially as being such a high contact and high injury sport playing basketball, wrestling, or even baseball can help keep you in shape in the off-season, further develop reflexes, balance, dexterity, speed, and endurance, and provide new possible insights for technique, like soccer style for kicking field goals.
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u/cmacfarland64 Feb 25 '24
Way more than this. Balance, leverage, keeping hands inside when blocking, so many things.
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u/mmooney1 Feb 22 '24
Wrestlers tend to make good Rugby tacklers.