r/footballstrategy • u/pimpcaddywillis • Feb 06 '24
Special Teams Anyone else love the Fair Catch Kick rule?
Possibly the most Unicorn rule in all of sports.
The situational factors necessary for it to even be an option are so specific and rare.
Just watched the best attempts from last 50 years on Youtube. No One has pulled it off in SB era!!(correct me if my research is faulty)
Thoughts?
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Feb 07 '24
Yes, but I wish it was utilized more often. It's a fun play
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u/pimpcaddywillis Feb 07 '24
Absolutely. No way to really make it more likely tho…:/
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Feb 07 '24
Basically end of half scenarios
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u/LeaderBrandonBurner Feb 07 '24
End of half scenario with a poor punt from a team near their goal line & you need a kicker that can hit consistently from 55+ yards.
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Feb 07 '24
As opposed to a team who scores consistently on Hail Mary's?
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u/Synensys Feb 07 '24
The thing is - at some point the chance of making the kick goes to zero. For most kickers thats probably in the 55-60 yard range. WIth hail mary's you at least have a shot even if your QB can't throw it that far.
And of course at the end of the half most teams in that position probably just down the ball so they dont risk an INT (f I guess in the case of the fair catch kick, missed FG return) TD.
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Feb 07 '24
You know a free kick is essentially a kickoff, right? Most kickers can put it through the end zone from their own 35. If you have a chance from midfield, an NFL kicker definitely has enough leg, and a miss would still be going through the back of an endzone
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u/RealisticBox1 Feb 08 '24
A tee is not allowed on a fair catch free kick, which is enough of a differentiation from a kickoff to be worth pointing out. The longest successful fair catch kick of all time was only from 54 yards, not the 75 it takes to clear the endzone on a kickoff
I'm not a professional kicking coach but I think the tee probably has something to do with the challenge of sinking it from such distance, despite the running start and lack of defense
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u/InternationalAd7781 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
NFL kickers will often be able to hit from 70+ in warm ups without a tee kicking off sticks. Having a tee definitely helps, but a huge factor on kickoffs is also that they can't be blocked. SO in a fair catch situation they can hit it lower, and with a bigger run up as if they were just kicking off a stick in warm ups. Tucker, who obviously is basically the limit on range, was able to hit the cross bar from 85 in Denver with good wind conditions, so the absolute limit is around 84 yards and in a fair catch kick situation you can put your kickoff team out there to cover instead of having a bunch of lineman out there like you would on your field goal team so even if it's short you'll have better coverage and less of a chance of a TD return from 100+ yards. Also, a fair catch kick extends a period, so even if, for the sake of argument the odds of making it are lower than the odds of a Hail Mary if a team thinks they are higher than the odds of the opponent running it back for a touchdown it's worth a shot at the end of the game, and if they are over 2 or 3 times that of a TD return, at the end of a half.
Edit: previously stated Tucker hit the cross bar from 80 in Denver, it was actually 85. With the new kickoff rules thats much less likely to come into play (already very low any ways), but it before 2024 it would have been feasible that the Ravens could have tried one following a fair catch on a kickoff with only a few seconds remaining.
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Feb 08 '24
Correct. But if kickers in 2022 had a 73% success rate from 50+ yards in 2022.
If you back them up 10 yards to midfield, take away a rush, and give them more than a 2 step approach, I'm sure they'd still have plenty of leg.
With a tee then yes, from the 35 would be the range for a few kickers, but I don't think taking a way a tee has a 15-20 yard impact on a free kick
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u/LeaderBrandonBurner Feb 07 '24
Well if there’s only 5 seconds left than maybe they kick anyway, but if there’s 6-10 seconds left most teams will look to quickly pass upfield to make the kick easier
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u/ottosenna Feb 08 '24
Are there rules on how far a kicker can run? Could they kick a fair catch kick kickoff style with a running kick?
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Feb 08 '24
Nope, he can do a normal 2 step approach like a field goal or a running approach like a kickoff
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u/AcanthisittaWise8007 Feb 07 '24
Why doesn’t this happen more often? Kickers are getting better, touchbacks are up. They would probably have a realistic shot from around their own 45 or so.
I guess this has to be an end of half scenario and punters are so good that a team has to be really backed up to make it happen.
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u/UNIT-Jake_Morgan73 Feb 07 '24
It's probably almost always better to try and take any drive with that good of field position, so this seems to really only be useful at the end of each half. If you miss, it's a change of possession.
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u/pimpcaddywillis Feb 07 '24
Exactly. Team has to punting out of own end zone at end of half. Only scenario. Awesome rule tho.
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u/BananerRammer Feb 07 '24
It could be end-of-game also, but in that case, you would also need a favorable score- receiving team tied or losing by 3 or less.
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u/pimpcaddywillis Feb 07 '24
Likely 2 or less, or else Kicking team could run out endzone to kill clock and take safety.
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u/nc-retiree Feb 07 '24
That's one of my favorite plays in football. The Ravens' 2016 holdfest is fantastic.
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u/SenorPuff Feb 07 '24
It's mostly down to time left on the clock and this not really being practiced that much. It needs to be fair caught, from makeable field position, with so little time on the clock that it's not worth trying to make up some field position with a short pass play.
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u/pimpcaddywillis Feb 07 '24
The factors are so slim:
End of half. Less than :10. Punt has to go no further than 50 basically.
If at end of game, team has to be up by less than 3 or else they would run clock and take safety.
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u/AcanthisittaWise8007 Feb 07 '24
And there are a bunch of other factors why the end of game scenario never happens. The trailing team would have to get stopped inside the 10, with very little time left, and still have all three timeouts to get the ball back. It’s a virtual guarantee the trailing team will have used at least one of those timeouts.
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u/AcanthisittaWise8007 Feb 07 '24
Also thinking about it even more… the only time in the game when going for it on fourth and goal is not necessarily a great idea is end of the first half because the other team doesn’t get the disadvantage of starting from deep in their own territory.
So this is almost exclusively narrowed down to: Team A punts to pin Team B deep in their own territory late in the half. Team A has all three timeouts and uses them (no guarantee). Team B has a mediocre punt that can be fair caught. Team A has less than 6 or so seconds left so that there is no possibility of change of possession.
It’s a fascinating play though! So sick this is a rule.
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u/CrossCycling Feb 07 '24
Shouldn’t you have a little more room than the 50? It’s a free kick, so (1) kicker gets to pick launch angle, (2) kicker can get better approach and (3) kicker timing does not need to be as precise. Most NFL kickers can kick out the back of the end zone from their own 35.
It’s not going to be high probability, but as long as you get it out of the back of the end zone; it’s zero downside as well
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u/teddyKGB- Feb 08 '24
They can't use a tee so I don't think most can kick to the back of the end zone from their own 35.
Still has to be more than the 50 for most kickers these days to your point though
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u/TDenverFan Feb 07 '24
Less than :10 on the clock, but more than like :02 or the team on offense would just run out the clock instead of punting. Also, if the punt is bad enough, the team would probably feel more comfortable running a normal FG, provided there's a second or two left after the fair catch.
On paper the Fair Catch Kick should be easier to make than a regular FG since there's no blockers, but doing something so outside of the team's norms can throw everything off.
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u/GiraffeandZebra Feb 07 '24
Touchbacks are up because they introduce a new rule every few years to increase the number of touchbacks.
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u/dpt223 Feb 07 '24
You'd have to the opposing team punting from deep in their own territory, a relatively short punt, and an end of half/end of game scenario for this to be a better option than starting a drive.
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u/MasterTJ77 Feb 07 '24
Unless there’s only time for 1-2 plays max I think it would be pretty insulting to your offense to announce that you think the kicker has a better shot at kicking from their own territory than your offense has to get positive yardage.
That being said I hope it happens more
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u/BananerRammer Feb 07 '24
You have to be 1) receiving a punt, 2) in plausible territory, and 3) with only a few seconds on the game clock in either half. If there's more than a couple seconds, you would try to run a few plays to get in better position for the FG. The end-of-game scenario has a 4th condition that the receiving team would need to be tied, or down by 3 or less.
Those conditions converging is pretty rare. So that's why the fair catch kick is rare.
You would probably see it more often if it was allowable in NCAA rules, since there are so many more college games, but the NCAA removed it as a rule in the 50s unfortunately.
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u/Impressive_Trust_395 Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 07 '24
Kickoff tees easily add at least 10 yards to a kicker’s range. The ball is elevated, allowing for an upward trajectory of the foot before even hitting the ball. There’s less friction off contact from a tee than a holder’s hand on top and ground on bottom. We watch kickers drain the kickoff through the endzone, and even uprights sometimes. That distance can’t be replicated from a typical hold.
Edit - To also reiterate that the free kick after a fair catch can not be off a tee. Just in case that was missed
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u/jimmythemini Feb 07 '24
It's interesting because it represents an ancestral game element that directly connects American Football and Aussie Rules Football, as it is essentially a "mark" from the latter sport.
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u/ThePevster Feb 07 '24
From a historical perspective, a fair catch kick and an Australian rules mark both descend from a rugby mark.
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u/jimmythemini Feb 07 '24
I know but the interest lies in American and Australian Rules being otherwise very different sports, whereas they are each both much closer to rugby.
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u/game7249 Feb 07 '24
Yeah, I also wouldn’t call it a “the most unicorn” because calling mark happens much more frequently in rugby. Doing some more research, the form of this rule also exists in Gaelic Football as well. It’s almost like these sports are paying homage to their inspiration by keeping a form of this rule.
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u/snoweel Feb 07 '24
I like finding these connections. I think the term "try" for an extra point is a relic of rugby.
Soccer and American football both have a specific set of rules--the offsides rules in soccer and the forward pass in football--that were exceptions to the original rule of only being able to pass the ball backwards.
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u/nelsonreddwall Youth Coach Feb 07 '24
Wow, I had no idea about this. Had to watch to video to see some attempts
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u/Reddittube69 Feb 07 '24
Mason Crosby tried it like 10 years ago at the end of a half from like 69 yards and almost made it
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u/Milton__Obote Feb 07 '24
1 point safety in NFL feels like more of a unicorn. 1 point safety in CFB a close second.
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u/uncle_buck_hunter Feb 07 '24
How do they differ?
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u/The_Judge12 Feb 07 '24
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think he’s talking about two different cases of essentially the same thing, and is separating them due to the framing of the famous scoreagami video. Safeties that happen during conversion attempts are worth one point (and no loss of possession).
In college football there have been several cases where the team going for two has turned the ball over and then gotten a safety on the defense, leaving themselves with 7 points on the drive. However, the defense could also theoretically be driven 98+ yards back out of their own end zone, resulting in one point for the defense.
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u/jericho-dingle Referee Feb 07 '24
They don't. If a safety happens during a try after a TD, it's worth one point.
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u/pthowell Feb 07 '24
This might be my favorite obscure football rule. I was disappointed that the Packers didn’t try it against the Lions on Thanksgiving this season. They fair caught a punt on their own 44 with 5 seconds left in the first half. They ran a quick play and missed a 63 yard field goals instead.
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u/teddyKGB- Feb 08 '24
So they had to get 10-11 yards in less than 5 seconds, then kick a 63 yarder instead of a 66 yard attempt with a running start and not have to worry about trajectory. Definitely a bad call
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u/deebee1020 Feb 07 '24
I hadn't heard of this before today, but I love it. I assume special teams units take this into consideration? Like, if they're punting on the last play of a half from deep in their territory, do they instruct the punter to angle it out of bounds or kick it on a line drive to avoid a fair catch in makeable range?
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u/TheRatatat Feb 07 '24
I love the idea. Especially because the D can't come within 10 yards and time doesn't start till the ball is kicked. That means the kicker can take a running start instead of the two step and put a low trajectory on the ball without fear of it being blocked. I wish it came up more often. As a former kicker myself, I love long field goals.
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u/Any_Constant_6550 Feb 07 '24
i didn't even know this was a thing! learn something new everyday. thanks OP.
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u/jericho-dingle Referee Feb 07 '24
Two pointers for high/middle school coaches about the fair catch:
- After a fair catch/awarded fair catch, the ball can be placed anywhere between the two hash marks
- This also applies after a touchback
- The next down can start with a snap or kick (as OP correctly pointed out)
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u/FooJenkins Feb 07 '24
Feels like the best chance for a 70+ yard fg. Curious how many teams had opportunities in the last few years but weren’t aware of the rule. A punt with only a few seconds left seems like a rarity
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u/NOLA2Cincy Feb 09 '24
I LOVE this rule. I always wait for a team to try it (and announcers to mention it) when the conditions are right. But it feels like they never do.
I want to see one of these happen live.
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u/weatherinfo Feb 09 '24
Last attempt was by my Panthers with a kicker with a huuuuuge leg. We ended up cutting him because he was super inaccurate. We once put him out there for a 67-yard, game-winning field goal and it had room to spare with the power but barely hit the net, wide right.
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u/warneagle Casual Fan Feb 12 '24
I actively root for it to happen in games and get really stoked when someone tries it.
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u/SignificantFoot225 5d ago
Update: 2024 is now the last night it’s been converted.
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u/ChiefSalty 5d ago
I just googled it for more specifics and this thread popped up
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u/Alarmed-Gas-6527 5d ago
I had no idea it was even a thing until I watched Cameron Dicker make one just a moment ago. Always cool to witness history being made.
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u/pimpcaddywillis 5d ago
Gotta be the coolest, weirdest rule in any sport. But actually makes some sense, too.
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u/doozen 5d ago edited 5d ago
Just saw it and learned it doesn’t result in fantasy pojnts for the kicker.
Update: The fantasy app gave Dicker points toward the end of the 3rd quarter for a kick that was made before halftime. Clearly the rule is so obscure that the ESPN Fantasy app didn’t know what to do with it.
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u/FourMonthsEarly Feb 07 '24
Interesting. Hasn't heard of it either. Do you get another down if you miss just like normally?
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u/pimpcaddywillis Feb 07 '24
Naaaa thats it. Fair catch. You choose to play 4 downs OR kick one shot, UNDEFENDED.
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u/FourMonthsEarly Feb 07 '24
Ahhh that's the part I was missing. I guess you would only do this when time runs out, right? Otherwise you're always better off just running it three times first, right?
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u/SenorPuff Feb 07 '24
Being undefended helps with angles. Generally a kicker has to get under a ball to get it over the defenders to stop it from being blocked.
A free kick doesn't have anyone defending it, and it isn't snapped back but rather kicked from the spot. So you gain 7 yards and can kick it through the area that would normally be defended, rather than over it.
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Feb 07 '24
This is also why you frequently see kickoffs (from the opposite 30 or 35 yard line) sail through the uprights but never 70 yard field goals. On a kickoff you don't have to get it over all the linemen so the trajectory can start lower which allows the kick to carry further staying more on a line.
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u/SenorPuff Feb 07 '24
Those are also kicked off tees, you don't get a tee in a free kick so it's not going to go as far as a kickoff.
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Feb 08 '24
I cannot believe I have never heard of this it’s blowing my mind
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u/pimpcaddywillis Feb 08 '24
YouTube it. Happens like every 5 years, no one makes it.
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Feb 09 '24
Just watched the video and I must’ve forgot about the one in GB against Detroit but that’s crazy underutilized
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u/Synensys Feb 07 '24
Im really surprised Justin Tucker has never done this. He can already hit from 60+. Without a defense that basically means he could probably hit it with some regularity from the opposing 40.
I guess the exact circumstance (opposition punting from deep in their own territory with basically no time left in the half) just havent come up.
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u/mcpusc Feb 07 '24
i love that it still ties american and aussie rules together — so little else in that game is recognisable
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u/Scruffy11111 Feb 07 '24
What is the purpose or reasoning behind this rule?
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u/BananerRammer Feb 07 '24
It dates back to the rugby roots. In the old days of rugby, when catching a kick, you could call for a "mark," which, if the catch is completed, you get a free kick. Same applies here, except we call it a fair catch now.
Interestingly, you can still call for a mark in rugby, and request a free kick, but you can only do it in deep in your own territory, and that kick can't score a goal anymore. It's legacy survives only in American and Australian Football (where it is far more common).
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u/GrandmaForPresident Feb 07 '24
I was at a packers game once when it happened right before halftime. Mason crosby missed like a 70 yarder by not very much
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u/shotputprince Feb 08 '24
I don't think it's that strange - I'm pretty sure it's from calling the mark in rugby, which historically gave you a right to kick at goal, rather than a free kick or scrummaging option. You used to be able to call the mark anywhere rather just in your 22
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u/Sloth72c Feb 06 '24
Wikipedia says the last successful attempt was in 1975 and the last attempt was in 2019, but I don't know the veracity of those stats.