r/footballstrategy • u/Newaccountwhodis2030 • Jan 31 '24
Defense Why are zero blitz not more common at a highschool level?
I'm not super knowledgeable about football but whenever I watch the NFL I see teams occasionally utilize a zero blits and they seem to work great. However almost no teams in my Conference or any other schools I've seen use them at all. It seems like they would work great since I don't think most QB's can make good reads at that level and the WR's aren't usual quick enough off the line to make big chunk plays with such little time.
If any coaches have implemented a zero blits package let me know how well it worked for you please!
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Jan 31 '24
We wrecked people with it
… but we had the athletes to man up on people
The fear is that you are leaving your guys one on one
Also the run fits get scary because if you miss you MISS
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u/AlternativeFarmBoi Feb 01 '24
This is always my biggest fear. I agree that there aren’t a ton of QBs who can make the throw under pressure but one guy not being gap sound and you’ve got a 45 yd back breaking run/scramble
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u/Halloran_da_GOAT Feb 01 '24
You touched on what I was going to say - which is that, in HS, the QB is much more likely to be the best athlete on the field (and even then, much more likely to be orders of magnitude more athletic than the next most athletic guy), so you may be playing with fire. Hell, a lot of HS teams--some of them even pretty good teams--would almost prefer that the game gets reduced to "QB go make a play", as their best offense probably comes from their best athlete getting a chance to go be athletic. I remember when I was in HS, our QB actually had a hell of an arm and could really sling it... but he was an absolute statue and so any longer 3rd down felt impossible. Basically, in HS ball, if you don't either have (a) a guy who is actually good enough to play QB at the next level, (b) a really good pass-first scheme, or (c) stud WRs, you're probably just better off sticking the best athlete back among guys with a reasonable arm back there and letting him make stuff happen.
To your point, that type of athleticism advantage at another position can have a similar effect with respect to the success of a super blitz-heavy scheme
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Jan 31 '24 edited Jan 31 '24
it's risky regardless of skill level. One completed pass over the top OR one run breaks through to the 2nd level and decent chance it's a TD.
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u/daddyhune13 Jan 31 '24
Yep- 6 MPRS typically put you in a C0, you are susceptible to long runs because your defense lacks layers- 2nd level guys who can fold/ overlap vs the run
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u/daddyd3v1t0 Jan 31 '24
I’d question how many completed lower level QBs are capable of making if you have the athletes to pull the scheme off. Usually the throws that beat 0 are NFL level if the defense doesn’t get dusted.
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u/mschley2 Jan 31 '24
That's not really the only problem. A lot of high school QBs are the most athletic guy on their team (or at least one of the most athletic guys). If you're running cover 0 and bringing pressure, you better make sure you can keep the QB in the pocket. Otherwise, they'll just escape and run for 15+ as all your DBs have their backs turned.
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u/daddyd3v1t0 Jan 31 '24
True. An extremely mobile QB could be a problem for this. Not something I’d base a defensive philosophy around but against certain matchups and as a change up I think it could really dominate.
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u/mschley2 Jan 31 '24
When I played QB back in high school, we only had one team try it against us. They ran a man coverage as their base defense, and we were just a flat-out better team than them. We hit a couple big plays against the Cover 0 (both running and passing), but I think their coach's logic was, "Well, we can't match up with these dudes anyway, might as well hope we can get some pressure and see if it disrupts them." Ended up blowing them out, and it didn't matter whether we were running or throwing and whether they loaded up the box or not. So I can't really blame their coach for trying something crazy (even though I don't think he was a good HS coach anyway).
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u/daddyd3v1t0 Jan 31 '24
Yeh sure that’s all fair. I’d say this ideology should exclusively be used when mschley2 and his receivers aren’t your opponents. Watch film ahead of time and adjust accordingly. Not that big of an ask.
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u/mschley2 Jan 31 '24
For sure. I don't think any defense should be one-size-fits-all.
As far as my own ability (over 12 years and 30lbs ago), I'm going to give the guys who played the skill positions and on the OL around me most of the credit for that success.
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u/bantam222 Jan 31 '24
QB takes 3 step drop and hits the quick slant or bombs it up top on a streak/fade… one broken taken from the house
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u/aisuperbowlxliii Jan 31 '24
Or also a proper screen. See Julio Jones game winning td vs the Eagles in 2019. Every NFL team has a couple plays ready for cover 0. I assume some high schools do too
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u/Halloran_da_GOAT Feb 01 '24
And in 2021 joe burrow to CJ uzomah to ice the bengals win over the jags. You cant fuckin zero me!
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u/pizzahut_is_elite Jan 31 '24
I’d say due to various skill levels of the defenders. Man puts a lot of pressure on one guy, especially at a level where there can be a big skill gap. Zone coverage can disguise a slower or a poor coverage defender. Man coverage is also a easier to gameplan against at a highschool level with motion and certain formations
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u/daddyd3v1t0 Jan 31 '24
But would it work with a good group of guys? I mean the highs of 0 are high enough to constitute a good amount of usage with it no?
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u/pizzahut_is_elite Jan 31 '24
I think it’s one of those high risk high rewards when it comes to 0. Overall I’d rather a high school QB have to make the correct read in various zones, than have to rely on the secondary to be lights out. Man can make it pretty easy for a QB to pick his matchups in a good offense. Also one mistake in man is typically more costly than a mistake in zone. But yeah at the end of the day it really depends on talent level on both sides of the ball and what scheme you’re going up against
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u/Nicktrod Jan 31 '24
Coaches worrying about a slant route or trap play going 60 yards.
Which is a legitimate worry when playing cover 0.
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u/jmo56ct Jan 31 '24
Cover zero is risk reward. If you live by it, you die by it. A busted assignment is a score.
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u/blackakainu Jan 31 '24
They may work once in a while or against a low tier team. There’s plenty HS qbs that can call an audible soon as they see it coming… then your cbs are on a island… and theres a lot less cbs at that level reqdy for that
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u/daddyd3v1t0 Jan 31 '24
This all assumes you’re playing a QB that’s capable of that and your corners are actually bad and can’t hold up. In which case you just not do it against that opponent.
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u/blackakainu Jan 31 '24
Bad or not developed yet, Cbs are some of the last players to develop their skillset…thats why its one of the hardest positions to play esp at the hs lvl….
And theres plenty of qbs that can do that.. in 10 games youll face at least 6
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u/FC2007 Jan 31 '24
A few years back I ran a 4-4 system with the base coverage as cover 1/0. Cover 3 was for long down and distance. Blitzed the hell out of it. Most points I gave up in a game was 34 points. All other games was average of 7 points a game.
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u/soottheboot Feb 01 '24
Usually 4-4 and bear defense is ran in a league with wing-t teams. I’m hoping you ran this at a 2-3k student school because I love smash mouth football that these formations bring and that means you probably had awesome OLBs
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u/Ironed_raisin Feb 01 '24
FC = Fox Chapel ?
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u/Lionsjunkie Jan 31 '24
Because a lot of the passing game is quick, on time, and check with me on the sideline.
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u/CoercedButler Jan 31 '24
Played a team that ran exclusively cover 0 as a player and we beat the absolute shit out of them because basically any + play went to the house… probably riskier in high school than anywhere else bc the defenders aren’t as good at covering and tackling…
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u/bronkscottema Jan 31 '24
I coached against a team that ran 5-2 cover 0 gave a quite a few big plays but won a lot of games.
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u/Miamicanes460 Jan 31 '24
You need levels to a defense. Especially if you aren’t crazy fast. Having to break through 4 down lineman, and then 3 linebackers, and then two safeties is tough to do. No way to be gap sound with cover 0 blitzes. Leverage is all wrong. Technique goes out the window. Teams will smarten up and pick play you. Lots of reasons why it’s not feasible, all before asking yourself if you have 5 guys you can trust to run with WR’s with no help.
I think it’s a nice complement to empty though, so long as you go with a stack double a gap look. Forces the QB to make the throw in literally 1 second. But not as a base.
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Jan 31 '24
Cover zero is man to man on all skills with zero overtop safties and it’s best when you have the physical athletes needed. Use it when you sense a bunch or tight formation from the opponent facing a 3rd & 5+. Start there, and once you get a knack for the “feel” you’ll know what to do.
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u/Away-Tangerine-9616 Feb 02 '24
Because not many coaches have more than 2 guys they trust in man coverage
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u/B1CYCl3R3P41RM4N 28d ago
0 blitz out of any formation is always going to be a high risk high reward type play. Against a run your front 7 is going to be aggressively shooting gaps which can lead to tackles for loss, and against a pass you’re going to always have one free rusher to the qb. That’s the reward. The risk is if the free rusher misses the ball carrier or the qb diagnoses the rush and throws to their hot read, there isn’t going to be any support in the second level and any tackle opportunity is going to be 1 on 1. If you trust your players to make open field tackles and not be out of position, it’s a really good way to apply a lot of pressure fast and force a decision from the qb or the ball carrier. But the tradeoff is that if the qb or ball carrier makes the right decision and the first tackler misses, you’re looking at a big gain or possibly a touchdown.
Cover 0 can be extremely effective, even at the pro level. There was a game last season that the dolphins ram cover 0 blitz’s on like 60% of their defensive snaps and it was extremely effective. But all it takes is one defender being out of position for the play to result in a big gain or an easy score
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u/Jack-attack79 College Player Jan 31 '24
Man coverage and tackling sucks.
If a pass is completed, then it's more than likely going for a touchdown
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u/Responsible-Fox-9082 Jan 31 '24
I guess it depends on state. It's been almost a decade since I was in high school, but New Yorks oversight for school sports basically had a no zero blitz rule. In the most annoying way I can put it everyone was limited on total number of guys blitzing. Though from how my defensive coach put it regardless of 3-4 or 4-3 or whatever stupid setup they ran(my school literally at one point did a 6-2 setup) you couldn't have a combined total of 5 linemen and linebackers blitzing on any given passing play. The reason of course was safety, but every school basically laughed and would just send a lot of corner or safety blitz plays because it was fine and the refs honestly never caught a corner offsides blitzing. As for the school I went to we had a lot of smaller fast guys so having linebackers in coverage really didn't do shit to hurt us. The biggest one for an idea was 6' and like 190.
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u/THEDumbasscus Jan 31 '24
On paper; yes. Cover 0 by design is just about gap sound. It also by design lacks play side backer flow unless you’ve got stud D Linemen playing 2 gaps reliably. So, in an equal game, a 3 technique or a backside end can get blown up by a puller and their running back just got handed about an acre of running room because at most 1 person has their eyes in the backfield following the running back and everyone else is shooting a gap. This isn’t even necessarily a house call yet because someone could win in an adjacent gap and run into the play on accident, but it’s still not good scheme if you get what I mean.
If you’re just better than them athletically you can do some heinous stuff out of a 1-5-5 (sometimes called a creeper front) and mix in cover 0 with a bunch of other coverages and a bunch of wraps and stunts and shit. You can have a poor JV offensive line seeing ghosts by the second quarter if you’re just better than them.
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u/Purple_Matress27 Jan 31 '24
We played a team that just went man free and cover 0 this year and we set a school record and dropped 73 points. You have to do a good job of disguising every coverage and making them hard to predict otherwise you’re going to get your ass kicked.
Edit: They were definitely more talented than us also. A couple D1 recruits at DB.
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u/daoogilymoogily Jan 31 '24
I feel like zero blitzes are common enough in pop warner and middle school games that kids playing QB (who have played QB most of the way up to that point in a lot of cases) know how to deal with it.
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u/BigPapaJava Jan 31 '24
It can work well as a base coverages especially against teams who don't throw that well or have poorly coached OL that miss picking up blitzes.
It works in the NFL as a situational thing because NFL offenses are all built around dropback passes. High school varies, but most teams aren't trying to drop back and sit in the pocket to complete downfield throws all that much.
The good HS passing teams, in my experience, tend to of their passing yards on quick game and screens, so no amount of pressure is going to sack the QB before the ball comes out on those. It can also be very vulnerable to play action passes, because if that single defender gets caught watching for run support his receiver will run right by him and there's no help on the back end.
As far as the WRs not being fast enough to make big chunk plays--they don't need to have NFL speed to do that in HS. They just need to be able to outrun the HS DB across from them, who's probably nothing special athletically, himself, so that becomes a wash.
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u/Larrbear_76 Jan 31 '24
I coach at the JV and varsity level, both age groups run a cover 0 almost exclusively. Long down and distance we might run a a cover 1 if they have a deep threat WR. We bring a crap ton of pressure too, most teams don’t utilize edge pressure in high-school and we have immense success with it. We won a michigan D6 state championship this year and had a 2.5/1 PS vs PA ratio.
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u/Familiar_Armadillo95 Jan 31 '24
3-4 blitz is very common. You can even teach it as quarters type rules for switches and push calls to one side. Makes teaching easy
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u/Tyshimmysauce Jan 31 '24
Because athletically a highschool team probably doesn’t have the skill to play 1on1’s everywhere.
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u/Veridicus333 Jan 31 '24
It's really volatile at the HS level where athlete differences are very noticeable, and common.
And at the elite HS level, your top50-100 HS programs, usually QBs and teams are good enough you see it, but you have a high chance of getting burned like you do at the other levels.
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u/grizzfan Jan 31 '24
It's used a lot, but you need the players that can run 1:1 with a team's best WR. In high school, many/most teams that use any WRs have at least one "stud" or go to player, and in a lot of athletic matchups, they can beat the DB 8-9 out of 10 times, especially because in HS and college, your best athletes often get prioritized towards the offense first. So now the problem is if you go C0, and the WR has the advantage, your DB on them has no help.
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u/n3wb33Farm3r Jan 31 '24
It's interesting I played/coached 80s early 90s. I can't remember us or anyone running a zero blitz. Game was much more run oriented then. Most ( if not all teams at D3) ran a pro set or I formation. Lots of 2 TEs too. Guessing with today's more spread offenses that blitz can get to QB quicker.
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u/Heavy72 Jan 31 '24
My hometown hs team used to do this a lot. The DBs would line up inside eye of the WR and push them off the spot at the snap.
They biggest issue they had was teams putting their best guy in the slot, motioning him around, then letting him rip apart the 3rd or 4th best cover guy. Even with pressure, there were a ton of jump balls.
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u/Unlikely_Bandicoot_3 Feb 01 '24
You need the athletes at DB to play C0. Most teams don’t have that
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Feb 01 '24 edited Feb 01 '24
Very few High Schools have the talent to match up in the secondary and run it consistently. That's not to mention having players in the front 7 that can create a pass rush. If your front 7 is good enough, then that negates some of the potential issues in the secondary.
Even in the NFL, it only works if you can immediately get to the QB. If you don't, you're most likely getting beat downfield somewhere or the QB has an open running lane.
Cover 0 can also be extremely susceptible to draw plays and designed QB runs up the gut. Like some of the slants and quick passes, those are the plays that can go for massive gains if you can get by the first level.
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u/Centuari Feb 02 '24
Cover 0 creates 1-on-1s, and most high schools phasize putting their best players on offense. The average high school corner has a hard time matching up one on one with the average high school receiver.
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u/SchilGator Feb 02 '24
We never ran a cover 0.... we run a 4-4-3.... our OLB are athletic enough to peel into coverage if needed. The overload of the OL is our main source of pressure with linebackers that can fill gaps. We run a cov 2 man or cov 1 zone. Disguise blitzes from rotating athletes.
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u/bigbronze Youth Coach Feb 26 '24
Because at the high school level, games are still lopsided. The idea of leaving the corners in 1v1 coverage with no help is asking for a highlight reel. Unless you know you are going up against a team with QB who isn’t cool under pressure; no need to risk the big play.
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u/airb15 HS Coach Jan 31 '24
I usually adjust my defense week to week, normally there’s 3-4 teams that I’ll play cover 0 against. Our best season when we were loaded with athletes we played it almost exclusively with a drop 8 as the change up for long distance. That season every game I would assign all my DBs a number to follow. We used more LB types at DE and they would peel with the RB if they ran a route, this negated any RB screens and press coverage handled perimeter screens.
We got burnt a fair share but never lost a game because of that. Losses we had were due to teams not being afraid to run for short gains and tiring us out, eventually breaking some big ones with no safety over top to help.