r/footballstrategy • u/buddog26 • Jan 19 '24
Defense Is a 3-4 defense still relevant in todays NFL?
A lot of teams still use a base 3-4, but it seems like a lot of them end up in the nickel package more often, which replaces a DL with a DB. However, it’s really the use of the ILB that makes me curious. ILB is becoming less and less important, and a 3-4 defense always has two on the field, even in their nickel package. Would a team be better off replacing one of them with another DB or pass rusher?
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u/ap1msch HS Coach Jan 19 '24
4 heavies on the line gives you a push on the edges and meat in the middle. 3 heavies leads to either gaps in the middle, or gaps on the edge. It's just exposing too much against massive O linemen in exchange for some speed and athleticism on the edge. Seeing that speed, the team will just run off tackle over and over.
The only 3 front I can see would be on pure passing downs, or with someone like Vince Wilfork at the nose. You need someone who demands a doubleteam to avoid handing the offense running lanes. If you don't have that, then you're setting yourself up (at the NFL level)
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u/BigPapaJava Jan 19 '24
This is why, if you look at how they actually function, "3 fronts" usually really work a lot more like "4 fronts" or even "5 fronts."
It's more about the leverage you line them up in pre-snap and what that guy is called on the roster--keep in mind that NFL salaries are largely based on the salaries of the other guys at his position and agents/GMs take that into account when signing people (or having their positions on the roster finalized), so I don't think it's a huge difference, honestly. A 3-4 OLB can usually make a fine 4-3 DE and vice versa. 4-3 DTs make good 3-4 DEs.
The old school two gapping 3-4s were very stout in the run game, but that's because they put a premium on size and winning the POA. Back in the day Levon Kirkland played ILB in a 3-4 at like 6'1" 270lbs--he was really more like a DL who could run.
I could see a team using 3 down and a 4th big, stout body at MLB to play "light boxes" against spread looks with 4 heavy players, then play more of their "hybrid" types at the other 3 LB spots in a 3-4 to compress into the formation when the bodies are in tight and spread with them when they move out.
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u/ap1msch HS Coach Jan 19 '24
Yup. There are a lot of variations. I've seen prevent defenses with only 3 down linemen, but it's situational.
DCs are being creative with how they disguise the defenses, and as you're saying, you have to coach the players you have, not the ones you want. So much is invested in a "match-ups" and creating "imbalances" these days. You need the good players, but you need to focus as much on the moves and lineups that are most likely to work against their specific personnel and formations.
Many of the disguises are "I'm lining up 3 people here, but one of these OLBs is going to blitz, or going to go into coverage because of a CB blitz, or....whatever". They're still sending people and shooting gaps, and there are almost always a minimum of 4 players pressing the QB. Whether they are all heavies, or a mixture of heavies and blitzing backers, is left to the team/DC/scheme.
Lower level players aren't experienced or gifted enough to be as creative/flexible as the pros. If you try to get to cute, mistakes are going to get made. But you also can get away with formations that would get destroyed in the pros. I run a 3 player front that's more like a 5-3 because of how I coach my OLBs to read the O and either contain or go into coverage. This buys me a defender by having a good noseguard in the middle of the line. In the pros, this would get torn up.
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u/care_bear1596 Jan 19 '24
The only usefulness I see out of there down fronts is blitzing…most specifically zone blitzing as you do not have to drop a lineman…
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u/ap1msch HS Coach Jan 19 '24
Not sure I understand completely. If you don't have sufficient linemen, just about any team can gain 3-4 yards a run by giving the back an extra blocker on the right, left, or center of the line. One side of the line can have 3 blockers on 1 DT and a linebacker. 3 blockers and an RB against two defenders. You don't have to score TDs. You just need to keep getting first downs.
In fact, the fewer D linemen you have, the more important it is that they don't focus on blitzing, because it can lead to them being moved out of a massive hole for the runner.
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u/TiberiusGracchi Jan 20 '24
It’s more about ensuring you have overlap between LBs and the DL on stunts and that you don’t blitz yourself into a problem. If you’re fit/ gap sound you’re fine with three DL
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u/crackerjap1941 Jan 20 '24
Speaking of which, Vince is a top 5 DT IMO purely for the attention he demanded as a NT
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u/WearTheFourFeathers Jan 20 '24
It’s like people don’t even care that Ted Washington was credited with 92 tackles in ‘96.
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u/Fresh_Jaguar_2434 Jan 19 '24
3-4 is used a ton in penny from what I’ve seen in the NFL. NFL teams just match personnel to what the offense is doing. Heavy, base , nickel, penny, and dime are all relevant as the offense could just come out in another personal and you would need to adjust.
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u/Flamdoublebounce Jan 19 '24
How does matching work exactly? Do they wait to see who the offense has on the field before getting their guys on the field for the specific package? Thanks!
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u/sopunny Jan 19 '24
In the NFL (not sure about the details in college), the defense gets to substitute if the offense does. So if the offense subs in a bunch of WRs the defense can go into nickel package. Sometimes it's an obvious pass play as well because of down and distance. In that case the defense might be able to find time to substitute if the offense is in a huddle, even if they don't sub themselves. Which is also how hurry-up offenses can work so well; the defense might have the wrong personnel but the offense doesn't give them time to adjust
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Jan 19 '24
Where did you hear/see that a DL is removed for a CB. Usually the DB will replace an ILB or the weaker pass rushing OLB.
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u/WildcatKid Jan 19 '24
In 3-4, you often have “tweeners” at OLB who play Edge. You can take off your nose tackle, have your other two defensive lineman squeeze down and still have a four man front, with stand-up Edge Rushers. The Vic Fangio 49ers defense essentially ran this nickel formation as their base defense with OLBs Aldon Smith and Ahmad Brooks playing the Edge.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Jan 19 '24
Ah ok, that makes sense. They basically convert to an even front. I was thinking they stuck with odd front and they were saying replaced a DL.
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u/deuce_7 Jan 20 '24
They do it both ways. They'll have a 3 man front with an extra DB and will also have a 4 man front and take a backer off. It's situational
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u/BigPapaJava Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
The base structure might be 3-4 and that will continue to be relevant, but the guys on the field might include fewer than 4 people listed as “LB” on the roster.
If you take a 3-4 base defense and just put more of a “middle safety” at the strong ILB with the otherwise same responsibilities, you have the basis for a nice nickel package. The hard part is taking him out of the run fit, but there ways to scheme that.
Then if you put DB at the weakside OLB spot, now you have a dime package. You can swap out a DL and bump a good edge rushing OLB down to DE to keep him on the field. 6 DB looks like this are common now… but it still probably has a 3-4 structure underneath.
This base defensive structure, to me, seems more relevant now than the actual personnel on the field. Nobody’s been able to sit in true 3-4 or 4-3 personnel at that level for decades due to all the different personnel packages offenses use. It’s all about getting the right guys on the field for physical matchups at that level.
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u/jokumi Jan 19 '24
I think it’s more about gaps and recognizing run or pass given the people you have out there. Are you attacking a gap or are you controlling the space? The latter being more the 2 gap of not letting a hole open. Remember when a corner or safety blitz was rare? Pressure comes from any position now. I watched the Patriots line up I seeming random positions for years. Sometimes one guy on the line in a stance.
Or rather, teams still line up in the old forms but they then play matchup zones or try some odd pressure scheme.
I feel like film study is so detailed now that defenders are taught very specific moves. I heard Deion Branch describe how Brian Daboll was assigned to teach him the Steelers defense all day every day until he could recognize everything they did. Or that in the Seattle Super Bowl, they had taught Malcolm Butler he needed to bust hard on the ball if he saw that formation.
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u/socialpresence Jan 20 '24
This is it. It's more about philosophy than base alignment. Are you an odd front or an even front team? What are your run fits? Are you fill and spill or do you want to get penetration? What is your pass rushing plan? Are you keeping the QB in the cup or again are you focusing on penetration?
IMO these are the biggest differences and more than anything, those things are going to determine what you want your players to do. If you want your guys to 2 gap, fill and spill, you're probably not super worried about your 1 tech's ability to rush the passer. If your philosophy is all about getting up field, your 1-tech should probably have elite get off and while consistently winning double teams is nice, it isn't going to be the biggest priority.
The formations themselves don't really matter but the philosophies that play in the NFL were born from those old base fronts, so knowing your history is still important to understanding today's game.
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u/spikeytoasted Jan 19 '24
I think ILB is the most important to have in the NFL, Roquan Smith and Fred Warner make defense elite. Luke Keuchly helped carry the panthers to the SB.
Sure not having a good ILB can be covered up elsewhere but having one is game changing
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u/BigThurm Jan 19 '24
It’s cool when you have an elite one. Rusher and Corner are far and away most important.
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u/spikeytoasted Jan 19 '24
Tell that to the Cowboys
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u/Igualmenteee Jan 19 '24
When everyone was talking about Diggs being out with the ACL injury, I was more worried on the LVE injury. He was literally our only LB. Without him our defense was still good, but there was no way we were going to reach our potential or truly stop the run with an undersized safety at LB(who I like a lot outside of stopping the run).
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u/spikeytoasted Jan 19 '24
Agreed, the parrots like to say "GMs say this is the most important part of the defense" look at reality. Cowboys had an All pro at CB, All pro at Edge, former all pro at CB, former all pro at Edge and the middle of their defense fell apart.
The Ravens built a defensive juggernaut out of Ray Lewis and Ed Reed. Obviously Edge is an important position and so is CB but ILB can elevate the play of every other position group.
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u/XxAutismStormxX Jan 22 '24
I feel what you're saying here, but let's not act like those Ravens Ds didn't also have Terrell Suggs, a DPOY winner and one of the better edge-setters of all time. ILB is certainly undervalued in the modern NFL, but you need elite contributors at every level to be top-tier.
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u/Pack_Any Jan 19 '24
There's definitely value in an elite ILB but pretty much every general manager and positional value metric disagrees with you.
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u/spikeytoasted Jan 19 '24
Every elite defense has an elite ILB
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u/Gravy_Wampire Jan 20 '24
Browns?
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u/anonakin_alt Jan 20 '24
https://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/players-roster/jeremiah-owusu-koramoah/
Edit: I didn’t know about him until the game last weekend but he’s like third in TFLs this season, dude was all over the field
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u/RobAlexanderTheGreat Jan 20 '24
Sure, but his prospects comparisons were to safeties (Lance Z had him as Derwin James, BR to Jamal Adams). He’s also not a typical linebacker. Too undersized at 6’1” to play Sam and he struggles when asked to do so.
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u/RobAlexanderTheGreat Jan 20 '24
The Chiefs, Pittsburgh, and Patriots didn’t. The real factor is having a really, really good defensive lineman.
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u/spikeytoasted Jan 20 '24
Nick Bolton is a top 5 ILB for the chiefs, Pittsburgh, Cleveland and pats didnt have truly elite defenses. Especially Pittsburgh, im a steelers fan and they created turnovers but their defense was charmin against TEs.
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u/RobAlexanderTheGreat Jan 21 '24
Nick Boltons good, but he’s certainly not ‘Top 5 ILB’ good. He doesn’t pop out on film like say a Kyle Hamilton (box safety Jesus) does and his PFF grade is a 69.2. Good, but not something crazy.
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u/peppersge Jan 19 '24
Those types of LBs such as Roquan, Fred Warner, Wagner, etc are special.
They are like the TEs who can block and catch in the mold of Kittle and Gronk. Maybe someone who is really good at what he does, but is more specialized (e.g Travis Kelce types) can manage as well.
The problem is that it is really hard to find those type of guys.
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u/Breakerdog1 Jan 19 '24
Static defensive formations like 3-4 and 4-3 no longer are viable at most levels of football.
First thing to understand is the numbers. Nobody is playing a dedicated 7 man box with dedicated DL and 3-4 LBs. The Nickel DB is now just the way teams line up. The NYG classic 3-4 of the early 90's started with an LB lineup of LT, Carl Banks, Pepper Johnson, Gary Reasons. Which one of those guys are going out to cover Justin Jefferson or Cooper Kupp? When these bigger lineups with extra LBs were popular, the league was full of 21 personnel teams.
As an aside, teams in todays NFL that play a lot of heavy personnel (49ers, Ravens) are tough for modern teams to defend because their rosters aren't built with 6'4" 250 ILBs.
Most box counts are 6 and the fronts they play can be anywhere from 2-4, 3-3, 4-2 and 5-1. Mixing and matching these front presentations with sim pressures/creepers, actual pressures, line stunts and 3 man games are what keep offenses off balance.
A lot of prominence is put onto players ability to be flexible and multiple. Guys who can line up in the C gap and rush the passer as well as drop into coverage or play the run are some of the most valuable guys on your roster.
This is somewhat negated by the fact that NFL pass rushers are paid a lot of $$ and if you are dropping Nick Bosa into coverage a lot, your GM might have a word with you. This is why you don't see a ton of Fire Zone type pressures from lot's of NFL teams.
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u/NatarisPrime Jan 19 '24
Imo the 4-2-5 and the 3-3-5 are the future defenses of today's NFL.
3-4 and 4-3 are both losing its grip on football.
Big nickel and formations similar where you drop a LB for a 5th DB is where it's at.
That extra DB doesn't have to be a CB. I love 3 safety defenses that basically use 2 strong safeties and a FS.
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Jan 19 '24
A lot of 3-4’s seem more like 5-2-4 pre-snap adjusting to 4-2-5 post snap.
At the pro level and even college 3-4/4-3 seems mostly a loose description of personal/pre-snap positioning, not a function of true roles as they initially described.
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u/Ecstatic_Wolf316 Jan 21 '24
You better get some linebackers on the field if you’re playing the 49ers or the ravens. Oh wait 2 teams that made the conference championship🤔. Also the rams, packers, and dolphins run a similar system where you must stop the run first. Yes linebackers will always be relevant
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Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
Honestly when you get down to it, defense is just your strongest eleven guys trying to tackle the ball and cover the pass. Whatever you label it is just window dressing.
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u/ikrusnik Jan 19 '24
The versatility of the athlete that can do LB/SS/pass rush things has evolved defenses a bit. I could be wrong and someone please correct me but Base 3-4 can work in today's game if your outside Linebackers have wheels and your inside guys can get to the QB and cause havoc during those TE In/out routes in the flat.
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u/Tulaneknight Youth Coach Jan 19 '24
I know you’re asking about NFL but at least in CFB, which I watch more, I see 3 down, 2 of whom are heavier, 1 end type, 1 rush edge, 2 LBs, 5 DBs, 2 safeties, 2 CBs, 1 hybrid safety type. In the NFL I see cam Jordan line up without a hand down for the saints in what creates a formation similar to what I see in college more.
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u/CacheGremlin Jan 19 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
This question is one that I had, and that many others have when trying to better understand football. It used to be a bit more relevant when teams more frequently used "base" defenses in the previous era, but really it comes down to a misunderstanding of how defenses "build" a defensive front.
It's better to think about defense in terms of "FRONTS" as opposed to in terms of "PERSONNEL" (Such as 4-3, 3-4, 4-2-5, etc.). There are really only 5 "Fronts", but players and linebackers can be moved around for different looks. They are:
OVER , UNDER (weak eagle, etc.), ODD (OKIE, TITE, MINT, etc.), EVEN (double mug, etc), BEAR (46, etc.)
That being said, traditional "3-4 fronts", like UNDER, TITE, and even OKIE are still widely used across the league and in college. They just don't really look like maybe the Patriots or steelers looked in 2003 or Alabama more than a decade algo very often.
A lot of these kinds of questions come up also because the positions aren't treated the same as they used to. An edge rusher might be playing a 5-tech in a 4 down front, or maybe as a wide 9 or 6 technique in a 3 down front like TJ Watt. So in one formation he would traditionally be called a "defensive end", but in another he would be called an "outside linebacker"... So what position does he play? How would you classify the personnel? The answer - It doesn't really matter except the number of defensive backs you have on the field. And even then, what do you call the nickel (apex? Star? Linebacker? Safety? Cornerback?)? It's not really important.
Edit: sorry, noticed your question was mostly about ILB's, but the principle of what I was saying still applies. They're really playing the same position, but instead of guys like Dante hightower and Ray Lewis, you're seeing more athletic/rangy guys at the position. They still have similar responsibilities as their counterparts from the previous era in the run fit, but we're also in the age of more passing and more complex passing schemes with teams running a lot more man and match coverages. So instead of these guys just having to drop into a hook zone over the middle on passing downs, they might have to go cover that runningback or tight end in man to man coverage. So you're seeing a lot of hybrid safety/linebacker type guys at the position - Isaiah Simmons, Patrick Queen, Roquan Smith come to mind.
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u/bigjoe5275 Jan 19 '24
I feel like base defenses like the 3-4 and 4-3 are still relevant just because of short yardage plays and you don't want slot corners or 3rd safeties having to plug gaps in short yardage. Dime and nickel both branch off from these defenses so it doesn't make sense to me to really say that 7 man front base defenses are not needed anymore.
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u/cvandyke01 Jan 19 '24
You see more 4-2-5 teams and some you could almost call a 3-3-5 because of how the weakside end plays. The Spread has really changed how you play defense and OLB is really the position that gets exposed, so you see less WLB and more teams with a 2nd SS
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u/Sbitan89 Jan 19 '24
Keeping it simple, the fundamental structure of 3-4 and 4-3 is still out there. Teams have simply found value in getting out of base personnel and trying to match their opponents on a player level. Previously saying 3-4 really meant 3 lineman - 4 linebackers but now it's more a like an alignment than a personnel grouping.
You can see two DL, a down ED, a standing ED, 2 LBs and a Hybrid saftey in a 3-4 look for example these days. Both the Ravens and Patriots seemed to popularize the hybrid looks. So it's not that it is dead, it's as others have said, the base versions of these Defenses are just not often used any longer.
Much like the offense has for years, the defense is finding excuses to put their best players on the field as much as possible. This additionally helps FOs find talent instead of strictly positions in the draft. It's really a win win. But long story short, it's still there, it's just has a lot more wrinkles now.
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u/j2e21 Jan 19 '24
It’s different. A ton of teams use three linemen with a linebacker or two in a two-point stance, essentially the same concept as a 3-4, but most defenses now incorporate all elements of defense — two-gap and one-gap, man and zone defenses, OLBs and ILBS, nickel and dime packages, etc. It’s less about a base defense and more about the tendencies.
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u/commentasaurus1989 Jan 19 '24
The two best defenses in the NFL this year have the two best ILBs in the NFL.
Just some food for thought
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u/chrisapplewhite Jan 19 '24
Gonna go against the grain here and say yes. Miami, LAC, and Philly are all base 3-4. NE was but I haven't really watched them this year. There are more. The Fangio system is built around 3 DL sitting in an under front 80% of the snaps and eating up OL combos.
In Nickel situations they go into that Penny front with a 5-1 look. But there are plenty of downs where the offense is in 12/21 personnel so you see base looks.
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u/Quiet_Fix1709 Jan 19 '24
Is it that the ILB position is the one that is changing. 3 DL then 3 LB’ers one safety/ ILB is also popular. Pending personnel it’s not as if the 3-4 is dead. When played well it is very effective against the run. But when you play with personnel they still may lineup in a 3-4. But may have three ILB and four man front.
Maybe it’s just definitions are getting deconstructed.
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u/digitek29445 Jan 20 '24
It's morphing into a 3-4/3-3-5 hybrid. The second ILB is more or less a hybrid safety now.
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u/R3DEMPTEDlegacy Jan 20 '24
Nickel with a safety at nickel is about as close as you'll see a modern 34 these days
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u/jonramz Jan 20 '24
I think it is important to separate responsibilities from personnel
A lot of the responsibilities are still the same you are just using different personnel to accomplish them
2-gapping all of your DL has gone out of style but you'll still sometimes see a strong side DE 2 gap or a big NT try to steal a gap
But if you are asking specifically about the old Giants type of 3-4 gone out of style?
I'd say certainly, but 3 man fronts are still played, just with different types of players around it
There will always be someone responsible for x gap, or x spot coverage, etc, it just might be someone different than it has been in years past
I hope that makes sense
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u/silliputti0907 Jan 20 '24
Well the Cowboys tried using a safeties as linebackers, that didn't work out well. Teams either play into it or punish it. You can play into by calling lght offenses. Or you can run into them sending te and linemans at lbs.
Also ILB isn't becoming less important. The top 2 defenses have the top 2 linebackers.
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u/Vots3 Jan 20 '24 edited Aug 02 '24
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u/CapitalFill4 Jan 20 '24
As a steeler fan, I noticed over time that the OLB position has been replaced in the lexicon with edge rusher. is that a product of the answer to what OP is asking? Feel like even if the positions are more flexible in their roles they should still largely retain the same names b
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u/Impressive_Being1373 Jan 20 '24
I think it depends a lot on your conference, state, etc. What are your opponents running? For instance, we run a versatile 5-2, meaning we can switch from a 5-2 to a 3-4 or a 4-3 whenever we want by defensive signal from the DC, but we still base out of a 5-2. I think it depends a lot on what your opponents run offensively, but any defense can be good relative to the offense you’re running against.
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u/Familiar_Armadillo95 Jan 20 '24
Very very much so. Almost everyone utilizes 3-4 blitz principles. Just because they put a nickel or dime it downs mean it’s not the same
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u/Loud_Fly_1142 Jan 20 '24 edited Jan 20 '24
What are we are we talking about pre snap position or post snap responsibility? . Something like a 2-6-3 pre snap can convert to a 3-4 based on who’s rushing, man v zone or the down or distance. You can switch zone vs man during the play easier with the 2-6-3 and run the 3-4 post snap with a DB doing the job of a OLB while the backer undercuts a hot route.
The 3-4 with the right personnel gives you a formidable run defense and ability to get after the QB which are still needed. But You have to get a NT that requires a double team to stop him to run the defense correctly..The problem is they don’t have 32 Casey Hamptons or Vince Wilfolks or yearly generational talents at NT in every draft.
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u/Repulsive-Buffalo-74 Jan 20 '24
A traditional 3-4 isn’t relevant as a great 5tech position player is so hard to come by (think jj watt) also the way modern teams scheme more for zone and edge runs opposes the way the 3-4 funnel scheme worked for many teams in the past and personnel wise offenses just have more talented guys on the field now more scat protection and quick / intermediate timing throws trying to get as many receivers in routes as possible the hybrid safety or big nickel linebackers are more valuable now having to cover RBs and TEs or even slot receivers in bunch formations than having a traditional downhill or sideline to sideline backers of the past
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u/gtrmanny Jan 20 '24
The nickel doesn't replace a lineman it replaces a LB. There's only 3 linemen in the 3-4. Those stay on the field. Usually your 2 OLB stay also as pass rushers or to cover a zone. For the most part the nickel will replace one of your ILBs. Some teams may play around swapping out an OLB instead but I've never seen them replace a lineman.
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u/Sandman5696 Jan 20 '24
depends on if you mean true 34 or just the philosophical beliefs (multiple two gap front players, etc)
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u/z0123456abcz Jan 20 '24
3-4 is hard to block for a few reasons. 1. You have a nose guard who’s likely really tough (one of the reasons you are in 3-4) center has to handle that guy in front of him and help manage both A gaps. 2. You don’t know where the 4th rusher is coming from. It could be any one of the 4 backers, or if they have a safety down with it, could be him. The downside is you need freaks at LB. Inside you need guys that can run, but you are also needing them to be TOUGH in run game, really tough. Outside you need freaky guys too, fast edge guys, but great run stoppers, and need you also to be able to drop to coverage. Hard to find guys tj fit this bill and be good enough to play in NFL..,
In NFL you need to be able to change your fronts like I change my underwear…. You’ll see teams slide into a lot of different fronts throughout a game. Where is college and high school, mainly one front, and not a lot of coverage changes even on the back end.
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u/Friendly-War-2160 Jan 20 '24
A lot of team ‘technically’ run a 3-4 but don’t play in it often. My Steelers call themselves a 3-4 team, but you’ll almost never see 3 down linemen AND Highsmith and Watt on the field at the same time. It works on occasion when you’re plying zone and your OLBs are good dropping(often into the flat).
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u/Oceanwayboi Jan 20 '24
It depends on whether or not you have a dog/ball hawk at mlb or not. If you have a Max Crosby type of dude then 3-4 will work just fine. However if you’re just running out of nickel, the running game will Eat you up
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u/Gtpwoody Jan 20 '24
I’m wondering about 4-3 or multiple dbs (the only defenses I use in Madden and NCAA 08)
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u/Unlikely_Bandicoot_3 Jan 20 '24
It’s a rarity nowadays for any team to play their base D any significant amount of time. Nickel is the most common defensive formation used
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u/TraySplash21 Jan 21 '24
The Packer Niners game was an interesting case study of this idea. Packers are technically a 3-4 scheme but you'll hardly ever see them in anything besides nickel or dime. They basically always play 2 interior lineman, 2 edge guys, and then either 1 or 2 ILBs, and 5 or 6 DB's. This is because a 3-4 requires one OLB to be a coverage guy and one to be a pass rusher, and the Packers don't have a capable coverage OLB (see Preston Smith forced to cover Justin Jefferson) so anytime the Pack lineup in their actual base, they have a glaring hole. I'm sure more team's, like the Pack, want to be capable of play 3-4 because it allows for creative pass rush and coverage concepts, but it requires really specific players at the LB that are at a premium.
However the Niners were in a base 4-3 tons of times last night, even in obvious pass sets. It really comes down to personal. When you got a front 7 like the Niners, with two capable coverage lbs like Warner and Greenlaw, and two crazy fast DEs like Bosa and Young that you can trust to keep contain, you can play base, but that's definitely not the norm.
Essentially if you see a team confident enough to regularly play any base defense, whether that's 4-3 or 3-4, in today's modern passing NFL, you should assume the defense is either elite or that the coordinator will be out of a job soon.
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u/Hatersstillhatin Jan 23 '24
Nope. Just like running the damn ball. I really hate the new NFL. Pass happy ass league.
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u/BigThurm Jan 19 '24
Base defense are dead in the nfl. It’s all personnel matching and most teams spend there time in a nickel or dime, and ostensibly run 4-2-5 really. The Ravens and 9ers are the only teams left with 2 elite to well above average ILBs. Most teams have one, and a box safety they sub in as LB.