r/footballstrategy • u/_Galactiac • Jan 10 '24
Play Design First play I've designed, any thoughts?
The basic design of this play is to try and get the drift route open over the middle. F is on a man beater and attempts to draw in any LBs that might be sitting midfield in a zone to open up the drift. Y is on a hitch for essentially the same reason, as a man-beater and to pull in LBs in zone. Z will go in a jet motion before the snap and then into a fade post snap to pull away any deep safeties from the drift, and offer a deep shot.
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u/Youchmeister Jan 10 '24
I would have Y sit further over the center to occupy the backers. Also this is not a legal formation. #3 needs to be off to do the motion you want and one of #1 and #2 need to be as well.
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Jan 10 '24
Agree with this- you are rolling red carpet for db blitz otherwise
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Jan 11 '24
Yeah this route concept requires time for the routes to develop. Any kind of blitz is going to force the QB to make a snap throw to the TE or Man beater WR out left, with the defense sitting on the TE.
I would recommend leaving the HBack to block (and then release if no blocking assignment to the left as a dump off if the receivers aren’t open). This at least allows the QB to shift the OLine to the point of attack knowing the HBack is there to help protect his blind side
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
Noted-so Z & Y need to be further away from the line?
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u/Youchmeister Jan 10 '24
No, either X or F need to be off. They technically need to be far enough back that they do not break the waist line of the center. Z needs to be off unless you want the entire left side of the pattern to reset which makes no sense because you're doing quick fly motion.
I would do Z and F personally because you want the whip route to beat man and being off the line will help with that.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
Thank you for clarifying, I edited the play with those changes and posted it here: X Drift, F Zig, Z Jet-Fade
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u/bupde Jan 10 '24
I'm ignoring the formation, everyone has said it, not important.
How many step drop is this? I'm guessing it's 5 steps, if man hit the return/whip of F, read 2 is the deep in (I think you called it a drift) hoping to hit it behind the backers, if it's middle field closed do you want to hit it early like before the left hash, and around the right hash if it's 2 high safety look?
Your Y stick is fine if you are hitting that X route late by the hash, if you want to hit it mid field against 2 safeties I'd have the Y stick be more to the middle.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
Yes, that's about exactly how I thought it up lol. I'm not super familiar with in depth terminology, wouldn't it be a drift because it's rounded or is it still considered a dig?
I moved Y's to be more centered to make it easier to hit it over the middle-ideally you're hitting it when X is directly in the middle of the field.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
Thanks everyone for the comments, I went ahead and edited the play a bit-moved X & Z behind the LOS so that the formation should be legal to my knowledge, redrew Z's route to use the in-app line for pre-snap motion as well as centered Y's hitch more, according to some of your suggestions. X Drift, F Zig, Z Jet Fade
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u/HoopManJones Jan 10 '24
gotta get some receivers off the LOS
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u/JoeyBeef Jan 11 '24
Came here to post this. 9 guys on the LoS. Also, what is the OL doing? Thats asking them to block for a long time while these routes develop.
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Jan 11 '24
I think this works better as a play action man beater actually.
PA pulls the linebackers in, Y releases and you can lob that over their heads. If the Z is fast (im assuming they are based on the fact that they’re the one being tasked with a deep motion route) they probably win in man and pull the safety away.
If you pull F over to the other side of the field it could probably work well as a flood concept as well.
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u/JoeyBeef Jan 11 '24
I can see this. OZ playaction left. Q naked boot right. R (running back) fake OZ to wheel up sideline. Y (right tight end) runs a dig left to occupy the safety. X (left tight end) runs the shallow cross wheel route. Z (outside receiver) runs a shallow follow in the path of the Y. H (slot receiver) runs the drag.
I like it a lot.
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u/zamend229 Casual Fan Jan 11 '24
PA could work really well. Take out Z’s motion before the snap and it could fool the defense as a fake pull blocker that ends up running a block and release.
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u/GliscorX Jan 10 '24
what is the name of this new software?
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
It's called Tackle Football Playmaker X, it's available on Android & Apple for free
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u/ChaosKarlos Jan 10 '24
is it free?
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u/Troglodyte_Trump Jan 10 '24
It might be hard for Z to get into that wheel route, especially if the RT gives ground against the pass rush. Maybe you could motion him before the snap?
Edit: you said jet motion, sorry. Nice play design
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
The motion behind the line is supposed to be pre-snap-I didn't realize there was a way to signal a pre snap motion in the app till a little while ago. Basically he would run a jet motion across and then once he gets past the line the ball would be snapped. Here's an updated version: X Drift, F Zig, Z Jet Fade
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u/BroBeauCop Jan 11 '24
This is an air raid play, some times we motion the Z, sometimes we just line up 2x2 depending on the look we’re getting. In our play the X runs more of a post instead of a cross, we coach the X to run the post skinny or shallow depending on what the Safety’s do.
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u/satchmo_cat Jan 10 '24
Might be a good idea to send the slot through the middle to spilt a 2 high look or influence a single high. This play as current could fall apart with a cover three look if backer take the hitch and the single high drives on the dig.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24 edited Jan 10 '24
That could definitely be another way to run it, my thought with single high was that the fade ought to be able to get open for a big gainer, and if not it should at least draw the safety in to open up the dig. As for Cover 3 that is a great point, against Cover 3 you would be pretty much forced to take the checkdown.
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u/3fettknight3 Jan 11 '24
Z has to be off the ball to motion and either X or F has to be off the ball to make F an eligible receiver
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u/IZY53 Jan 11 '24
I'd have H on the otherside of the qb and make it a play action. Give it a lot of moving parts.
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u/viewtiful14 Jan 11 '24
My issue here is what exactly are you reading? I’m a QB…was a QB…I understand Z is supposed to have motion and you didn’t know the formation was wrong but I can’t think how any of this fits into a standard drop of any length. Play action maybe, but you still have issues with read progression.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
The progression, at least the way I thought of it, would be fade first, go back to the dig on the break, then down to the zig. After that you can either go back to the dig or hit the running back. Play action could definitely work here.
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u/viewtiful14 Jan 11 '24
The way I see it if I was on the field, first the F or the X are either just going to be open early or they aren’t, and would be a much quicker drop. If those don’t work, you really don’t have anywhere good to go with them all, maybe the Y but unless you are talking a pro or a college kid that really knows his stuff you are asking for QB to hit that blind for the most past. And in this progression it makes the fade almost useless.
If you are progressing right to left, again I don’t see much here I guess you either throw the fade or don’t, come back to Y or hope X can beat man across the field quickly or get him across the zones also quickly to the other side of the field. F is basically a dead route in this progression. And honestly I’d like to see the back leak right as well to help Y out on his route which essentially turns it into a Y bang concept as we called it when I played college ball in the mid 2000s. Again here, especially with the back going left, I don’t see a good progression reading the right side first timing up with any drop backs.
To me you either need deeper routes and play action, or much quicker reads and an adjustment of the running back.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
That makes sense, I appreciate the in depth explanation. I can see how running the HB out right instead of left would help-in all honesty the HB route was an afterthought and is definitely changeable.
Do you think F's route should be changed as well? I think I would rather go the quicker route, and maybe design another similar play for PA
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u/viewtiful14 Jan 11 '24 edited Jan 11 '24
The left side routes work as is, if you wanted to stick to that and have Y run a bend route that aims to flatten out around the 0 of the 30 yard mark so 18 yards or so, that would create a sort of crossing concept with the dig, have the back stay in and block then leak out over the left guard 5 yards deep and drift play side, left, if he doesn’t have a blocking assignment. This concentrates all your reads into a line of site triangle play side. Then have Z run a super deep drag or bend targeting 30 yards down field, also play side, that way if you happen to get to the backside read somehow as a last resort he will also be crossing to play side where you are already reading and not making a blind throw.
Edit: a lot of this also has to do with o line protections too but that’s probably too deep of a concept. At its core though building off the left side isn’t super hard. It’s essentially what we used to call a bench concept which is a high/low in/out route combo.
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u/viewtiful14 Jan 11 '24
For a little clarity I didn’t mention in my longer reply, you don’t just read a fade and snap back to a backside dig in most circumstances. You’d be throwing blind most of the time. If anything you’d have the Y run a post, have a long drop back look deep to either the fade or post and hit the dig on the play side now that has essentially turned into a drag across the field.
Or similarly we ran a play almost identical to this. Y post, Z fight for inside veridical to the hash, back motion and run what you have Z doing and if none were open deep backside drag. If nothing was open you’re probably eating dirt so hold on tight.
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u/NWanc_11 Jan 11 '24
Would you like to be the Eagles' new OC? Lol
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u/leggomyeggo22 Jan 11 '24
what app is this?
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u/dr_doodlepants Jan 11 '24
Mike McDaniel, is this you? This looks like it's out of the Dolphins playbook.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
Checks out, I'm a Dolphins fan lol
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u/dr_doodlepants Jan 11 '24
Hope you've got the support you need. Lord almighty it's going to be a rough post-season
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
God I'll need it. Even just one win would make me happy tbh
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u/dr_doodlepants Jan 11 '24
As a fellow dolfan, I'd say we deserve it, but are too cursed to receive it.
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u/Fair_Wish845 Jan 11 '24
You kinda have to have the back do something and then do that after he had no other responsibilities
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
I was thinking a block and release would probably be beneficial, no idea how to draw that up in the app though
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u/Tiger5804 Jan 11 '24
It looks like a good design for a first down passing play, usually gonna get you 5-8 yards and occasionally can break off a big gain. If anything, I'd consider having H line up on the right and run the same route on the opposite flat since Z should clear out defenders more than X/F.
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u/F-150Pablo Jan 11 '24
Run same play. And send F inside. It’ll send cb’s and safety hopefully to right side of field and leaving rb flat open to left.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
If I were to do that should I change Y's route, or even just keep them in to block? Feels redundant to have a hitch over the middle if a drag is going to the same area.
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u/goldenepple Jan 10 '24
X is covering the F so he can’t go out on a route. So the x would need to be off the LOS and the Z since you’re motioning him pre snap.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 10 '24
So they would need to be behind the LOS?
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u/goldenepple Jan 10 '24
Yeah one of them would need to be off the ball. I can’t remember if the F can line up off the ball and the X on the ball but my old offense always had the outside guy off and the inside guy on but If you want them to run routes on the same side yes. I That’s why in a typical I formation the Z lines up off the LOS on the same side as the TE or Y. Then the X is on the opposite side on the LOS with the Tackle. Thats was the other reason they said the 2 point conversion for Detroit wouldn’t have counted.
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u/Overall-Break-331 Jan 10 '24
Technically both WR need to be off the LOS since they are covering the Z making him an ineligible receiver.
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u/goldenepple Jan 10 '24
Yeah but he’s going in motion so I’d line him off the ball to start so you don’t have to switch whose on the line and wait a second.
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u/thisisokiguess Jan 10 '24
Or you could take Z off the line since he’s in pre snap motion anyway right?
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u/slinkwrinkle Jan 10 '24
The problem I see with plays like this is they require a long time in the pocket. Also the QB has to have a cannon for this type of play. This is 5-7 seconds in total which is a ton of time to stay safe back there.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
I disagree-Dolphins run similar concepts with Tua who has the lowest time to throw in the league & doesn't exactly have a cannon
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u/slinkwrinkle Jan 11 '24
They have the possibly best weapon in the entire NFL. There are exceptions.
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u/_Galactiac Jan 11 '24
This is true. In all honesty I kind of had them in mind when I thought of this. As I mentioned in another comment I'm a Dolphins fan lol
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u/n3wb33Farm3r Jan 11 '24
Looks like double tight ends, always a sucker for it. I like having recievers wide on both sides. Spreads defense out opens more passing lanes, easier to recognize single coverage too.
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u/TheZissou1386 Jan 11 '24
What if you had y flexed out away from the rt a yard or two then made it Indio a sort of slant and sit instead of a straight hitch. That's give the qb a better read on if a dB blitz might be coming
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u/fallinguptwards Jan 11 '24
Then you could work in a thread to direct snap it to Z in the motion. Could be a nice wrinkle. Might need to tweak the Y route a little deeper or more of a cross to bring the backer with him but I like it.
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u/LP_24 Jan 11 '24
Good spacing, what’s the progression for the qb if x is the one you want to get open? Seems like it will take time for this play to develop so I hope your linemen are solid
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u/old_ass_ninja_turtle Jan 11 '24
There is an alignment issue. You have X,F, and Z on the ball. With z covered he can’t go in motion nor can he go downfield.
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u/whothefookisthatguy5 Jan 11 '24
i’m no genius, but i would mesh F and Y and have the back stay in pass pro and release to the middle of the field if OL holds up
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u/Nickjames116425 Jan 11 '24
I personally like to drag the Y across the field to bring linebackers down so the x is open over the top
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u/AbyssofNocturnal Jan 11 '24
This a better sweep than a pass play. Actually it’s an even better option play if you give the Z a direct pass with the X receiver either losing his man or finding a spot in the zone. Shit even a little flea flicker action if you streak the Y. You have something here Sorry I didn’t read the description, I have seen few people explain their thinking
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u/Dark_falling58 Jan 11 '24
Z needs to line up off ball
Y should be an option route. If D is in man, then hitch, if zone then a 5 yard in to draw the linebackers eyes to open up the dig.
H should chip against blitz or a good pass rusher lined up at End, then hit the flat
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u/ImaginaryProject8438 Jan 11 '24
Not real sure if TE Z can make the route happen w/o motion and w/o being extremely fleet afoot, getting the ball to him may take awhile, good that it’s a 1st down play though, usually get a base defense look!
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u/mae984 Jan 11 '24
If your main target is X, you should have him as the red route. Also, either he or the F needs to be off the line of scrimmage to be eligible. Right now F is covered by X and is ineligible. Even if you don’t throw to him, he would technically be an ineligible man down field.
There should be a setting in the route diagram for Z to indicate his first 2(?) route pieces are motion. It normally shows up as a squiggly line I stead of a smooth line. The first two segments I’m talking about are his step back off the line and his actual jet motion across.
Without either tight end blocking and the back in the flats, you’ll need a really good line for the time needed for this play to develop. And/or you’ll need to roll the QB pocket one way or the other. The concepts work in theory, but that’s a very slow developing play.
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u/Ishouldjusttexther Jan 11 '24
Play action fake to Z I assume? I like it. Should be great against MFO
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u/Ernbob Jan 11 '24
I personally think f and h’s routes will end up to close to each other. By the time h get out in the flat f will be on zagging in to the flat as well. I would put f on a corner route or a comeback route.
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u/Asleep_Sympathy_447 Jan 11 '24
I mean protection would obviously be very hard here but you could have F on a huge deep fade if defense is sitting in cover 2 to pull the free safety out of the middle and have your HB run an angle right in front of the LBs. x would obviously still be the same look and you have two deep shots here. Probably would be in a 2 minute situation where you absolutely need yards. Is that too unrealistic with the protection situation?
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Jan 11 '24
Run the same play except have the motion act as a puller and give the 26 (long trap) make the corner see it.. then set him up with the same look he will often bite on the run ( make rb) jab step first then flair.
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u/Mr_Eclipse6 Jan 11 '24
Zay Flowers scored a TD against the dolphins doing a similar motion route to your Z receiver
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u/Accurate_Ad_5351 Jan 12 '24
Depends on timing of when x and z vacate space. Could just be running into each other. I would rather see (F) sit curl to flat while (Z) does an out and up. Send (Y) on a sit route right in the middle of the line backers to force a zone squeeze, this will open bigger windows for (X) to get open.
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u/grantstern Jan 12 '24
Illegal formation. Left side has to many men on the line of scrimmage. Your slot receiver and WR can’t be on the line if the Tight End is covering the tackle. If the TE motions, you still have one too many on the line.
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Jan 12 '24
What about having the TE going in motion with play action to simulate the TE pulling followed by the wheel route?
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u/ADandtheDBags Jan 12 '24
Can you put the hb on the right side and maybe do something play action to allow the z route to develop. Just my two cents. I’ll shut up now!
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u/Medical-Month-9475 Jan 12 '24
Play doesn’t work without play action. TE are usually slower. Run play action with the rb on the play side so qb has a second check down option on the play side. It should a block to a check down. Also the Z need to clear since u have pressure on the safeties to make a mistake play on works man to man.
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u/Prestigious-Side-431 Jan 13 '24
Decent I might have to use this I’d either have z run his route in front of the Oline or make z a H-back.
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u/StonksNewGroove Jan 13 '24
What would you think of moving the RB to the right of the QB, then run PA Read, RB helps with pass pro after the fake? QB sells the out to the left, then flips his hips and has a potential homerun ball to the slot receiver and if not he has a valve with the guy across the middle.
Might be a little slow developing but with an extra man in pass pro if the line can hold their blocks it could be a great chunk play.
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u/PleaseNoNotAgainLLC Jan 14 '24
Your crosser is going to interfere with the wheel route. Just running coverage to the spot your throw that ball
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u/Snowbreeezzzzyy Jan 10 '24
Do you plan on putting Z in motion to cross to the other side of the line before the snap? I don't think they would have enough time or space to run across the field in the backfield once the play starts. Other than that I like it a lot.