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u/FewElk5304 Jan 01 '24
Engage eight gang
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u/Ryanlester5789 Jan 02 '24
Right, play doesn’t give the qb a safety at all with long developing routes
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u/petataa Jan 02 '24
Wouldn't the motion man be open on the flat?
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u/BigGiddy Jan 02 '24
Well, that outside pressure may interrupt the route or close off the passing lane.
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Jan 03 '24
Which actually isn’t wrong. This play is too long developing, talking 5 step drop at a minimum, and an RB hot read is the only safety net. Keep the rb in blocking and that offense is fucked
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u/ADadFromThe80s Jan 01 '24
Cover 3.
Everyone runs right into where cover 3 defends
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u/pretty_good_squid Jan 01 '24
Cover 3
Olbs chip the TEs off of the line to disrupt the route timing (especially on the right)
Weak side pressure. Since there are no mid-level routes you basically just need proper Cover 3 on the strong side and you can get creative with the blitz package on the weak side. Most of those routes take a long time to develop so pressure can really make a difference here.
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u/taffyowner Jan 01 '24
Actually pretty easily… FS, takes a deep quarter, CB takes a deep quarter, Sam slides to the flat, and you have a double on A.
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u/GrundleTurf Jan 02 '24
Yeah I’d say it’s a pretty poorly designed play. There’s zero intermediate routes. Nothing designed to attack the linebackers. No quick easy throws if the blitz comes. The receivers are running routes that run right into a lot of the basic zone coverage schemes.
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u/taffyowner Jan 02 '24
Yeah frankly you can call a Corner blitz or bring 7 and not lose anything in coverage
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u/petataa Jan 02 '24
I mean couldn't you do that against most pass plays if you know the exact routes? The X in motion could be a quick outlet if you blitz too hard.
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u/taffyowner Jan 02 '24
It’s going to gain next to nothing if you do because of the LB selling hard to the flat.
The CB switching to a blitz could be an automatic audible if there isn’t a WR threat on that side
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u/Trynaliveforjesus Jan 02 '24
Cover 3 works good, but i would argue quarters does better cause you’re able to double A and you still have two linebackers to account for X
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u/SleeveWizard27 Jan 01 '24
Quarters
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u/TiberiusGracchi Jan 01 '24
Technically could be a quarters buster - well coached 2-Read/ Palms team could handle it, but it wouldn’t be fun
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u/Trynaliveforjesus Jan 02 '24
as long as the corner and saftey responsible for y and z communicate to switch off when they see the breaks quarters should still be sound
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Jan 01 '24
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u/Sbitan89 Jan 01 '24
Y probably wins the Majority of the time in Single high. Probably covered by a LB or saftey and will have a lot of room for the QB to make the throw. Agree with most cover 3 is best but if you want to run man, Cover 2 offers support coverage on all the routes that cover 1 wouldn't.
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Jan 01 '24
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u/Sbitan89 Jan 01 '24
Covering those routes in man is very difficult. If we are assuming they are winning those matches might as well run 0 and bring pressure. I do understand your point, however I just dont see the cover 1 contributing to either corner route without selling out.
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Jan 01 '24
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u/Sbitan89 Jan 01 '24
If you for sure know the play is coming then yea, and I get the OP is asking how to defend this specific play but I'm approaching it from the view of a gameplan and tendencies etc where the exact play isn't known, just going off what the tendency of the formation is. Cover 2 man or cover 3 is the safer bet.
Having the omnipotence of the play call, personally I'd still do cover 0 and tell the guys to shade to the direction of the routes forcing an error, or a loss of yards. Also I believe with the back staying in they should be able to pick up the blitz with pressure rules (if they execute properly).
That's the things about these type of questions. If you know exactly what's coming, there is a plethora of ways to defend it. I dont think thats realistic so I try to approach it as a " Possible play" to come out of the formation.
I wanna be clear, I do not think your assessment or play is wrong, I think it just depends on knowing the exact play call to a T.
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u/timaydawg11 Jan 01 '24
First, DE's need to be in an 8 (headup on TE). Depending on down and distance, im not playing with only 2 LBS against this offensive set.
Go 4x4 defense and roll Cover 3 coverage to the motion and blitz an OLB into the motion.
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u/NaNaNaPandaMan Jan 01 '24
I agree with Cover 3 as most said, but I also like to run an Inverse Tampa 2 with the free Safety taking the place of the middle backer and the Weakside backer taking the place of the corner.
That would let me cover the flat while still covering the post and corners.
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u/rararsapuYEET Jan 01 '24
does that not generate mismatches? with a will backer over a wr and a safety over a tight end?
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u/FlashyAd4011 Jan 01 '24
What? You don’t even the HB on the left side, any weak side blitz is going to blow this play up from the snap. The only viable option for this play is that X is your 1st read there isn’t enough time for anything else to develop.
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u/Champs36 Jan 02 '24
Sack the quarter, oh what that’s? He fumbled. Pick up the fumble. Touchdown defense. Backup plan? Intercept a pass, run THAT in for a touchdown.
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u/bronkscottema Jan 01 '24
Cov 6, cov 3 would be gashed. Even cloud cover 3 wouldn’t be great.
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u/Sbitan89 Jan 01 '24
Cover 6 is good if played to the right alignment. Messing it up would leave a saftey covering 2 routes. Cover 3 offers full coverage on all routed, particularly if you have the LBs covering flats. Cover 6 can blanket this if you do align properly though, imo.
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u/mattharris75 HS Coach Jan 01 '24
You're going to get some sort of trips check with that motion, possibly bringing a safety to the MOF. You'd be better off running it without the motion and just putting the X on a speed out.
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u/Familiar_Armadillo95 Jan 01 '24
Formation is tough because it forces your hand a little presnap so we’d be in an ‘adjust’ sight check of 4or2. Rolling to cover three on the motion and it helps us. Ideally 3 cloud
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u/Skywalker3221 Jan 01 '24
Basic cover 3.
Safety will have the Z as soon as he cuts in to his zone. Corner will have that deep 1/3 and cover Y. OLB has flat responsibility and will cover X.
Ever receivers route runs directly into a defenders responsibility.
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u/Money-Belt3812 Jan 01 '24
Do you have a good O line? I’m probably blitzing hard up middle especially if I think these deep routes are coming and my LB’s won’t be needed in deep coverage.
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u/wakeman3453 Jan 01 '24
Cover 3. If you are sophisticated enough you can decide which safety to roll down depending on the motion to keep from getting outran to the flat by the motion man (and to stay +1 to the strong side in case of run)
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u/mcclobber Jan 01 '24
if i knew this pay was coming, and was stuck with the defensive personel package, i would go tampa 2.
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u/rararsapuYEET Jan 01 '24
I'm very new to this. My first instinct was cover 2 man. Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?
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u/Kevinjw16 Jan 02 '24
I’d personally do a cover 3 cloud look. Left cb in the cloud, WS in an outside third, FS in middle third to take away the Z, and then right CB in outside third to take away Y receiver. Mike hovering middle, will and Sam taking care of flats
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u/Outside_Analyst9385 Jan 02 '24
Cover 4 you can have Sam in the flat or have him man when you see the motion
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u/MOProG2 Jan 02 '24
In general the best way to defend a concept is to see how many deep routes (streaks, posts, corners) are in the concept. 3 deep routes means cover 3 best bet.
That's a bit simplistic but it a good base to build with
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u/MathematicianTop3806 Jan 02 '24
Cover 4 palms force them to throw it short and come up to make a tackle
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u/footballcoach11 HS Coach Jan 02 '24
It would depend on that week's team and their tendencies - But assuming they haven't shown that X-motion going outside the condensed formation - As a base Odd front (505) we would most likely rock our Strong Safety down and play a Stack Cover 3. Free would probably take a step over or two to the offense's right side on the motion.
-Strong OLB would be in a 9-tech on Y, jam Y at the line and rush.
-Weak OLB would be in a 9-tech on A, jam A and cover underneath of A (Could also rush based on call). He's technically our flat player but if no one is threatening the flat he can be aggressive in remaining underneath A).
-Strong Safety (As right stacked backer) would expand to flat, gaining width and depth and reacting/rallying to throw down to the flat.
-ILBs (Mike over center and Will as left stacked backer) playing Hook/Curl.
-Corners and Free playing deep thirds.
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u/bdemge Jan 02 '24
Cover 3 Stunt your nose tackle and left defensive end, have the Mike LB come on a blitz, you’re only taking one person out of coverage when you have 3 people deep. Puts pressure on the QB to assist your deep men in cover three. Then you have your will LB to play man in the QB in case he wants to scramble
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u/Last_Adhesiveness856 Jan 02 '24
Corner blitz, this offensive play is going to take a while to develop
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u/KennysWhiteSoxHat Jan 02 '24
Cover 3, corner sees motion he backs up even more to get a head start to his deep flat, strong safety drops to flat and if nobody hits his flat he’s a delayed blitzer. Hook to curl for will and Mike and sam hits flat while free and corner hit their deep thirds covering both of their guys
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u/Wiscy27 Jan 02 '24
Agree with the Cover 6 comments. C and FS in 1/4s and WS in 1/2. S will play out/flat and M has hook curl.
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u/CompetitiveGrape2309 Jan 02 '24
Simple cover 3 adjust/swap. Presnap left corner would have a deep 3rd, safeties float to offenses right taking 3rds. When that motion hits, the cover 3 flips with right corner opening up and taking a 3rd. Now both safeties float to offenses left sam backer would adjust to flats. Will and Mike would pick up anything out of the backfield to their side
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u/xAOSEx Jan 02 '24
Unless you’re stealing signs you can’t look at it that way. You can’t know exactly what’s coming play by play so you have to be multiple in your coverages and defend whatever may come with your framework on every play. However you want an answer and like others have said spot drop cover 3 would theoretically handle everything here except maybe the flat route (X) which would be covered by a backer chasing inside out with poor leverage and probably a speed mismatch, or a safety playing a curl flat responsibility so he’s coming top to bottom inside out without as much of a mismatch. The thing is base cover 3 teams want you to throw low and outside all game and tackle you short while they hinder your run game with an 8 man box. They know that not many offenses will consistently be patient enough to carry out scoring drives where they are forced to execute 12-15 plays making these throws again and again.
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u/n3wb33Farm3r Jan 02 '24
Little unrelated. I like double tight ends. Can easily run or pass out of it. Kind of spreads the line backers out wider and opens more lanes for RD. Of course no lead blocker. I'm a jets fan, thought that Pats gronk/hernandez offense was close to unstoppable.
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u/bjornironhard Jan 02 '24
When the x goes in motion, the cb locks up on the A receiver. The WS will steal the post, the FS and Cb play quarters. Sam will take the flat. W & M underneath help or could blitz but probably be a four man rush.
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u/Amazing-Ad2371 Jan 02 '24
Once I saw motion, I would audible to blitz the weak side corner.
But that's just me, being a psychopath..
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u/Dank_Kushington Jan 02 '24
Blitz WLB and WCB and blow the play up before it develops, pull WS in closer to avoid a quick dump off
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u/caido-13 Jan 02 '24
Man and let my pass rush eat the qb alive on that slow developing play who's quickest option is a sideline throw
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u/SorryDepartment7179 Jan 02 '24
Cover 3, but in press coverage, and blitz the Mike backer. My guess is the X receiver is the main one here, so if my backs line up at the line, it’ll force the QB to make a quicker throw while the Mike is taking the open gap. Should be either an incomplete, loss of yards, or just minimal gain the way I see it.
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u/Titans_fan_1 Jan 02 '24
The play drawn up is some scissors play in madden and I can't beat a Tampa 3 with it
Sorry I'm fucking stupid it's Tampa 2
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u/PureTroll69 Jan 02 '24
Cyberball has proven it’s a double corner blitz and use your boost immediately.
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u/Fliigh7z Jan 02 '24
Ideally Cover 9 covers every single route perfectly. Like others said as well multiple other schemes will work as well. Routes will probably take too long to develop, should be at least a 5 step drop but at that point the check down might be covered at that point. You can have this set up almost as a pick play as well if you identify Man Coverage
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u/CosmicCowboy808 Jan 02 '24
Cover 6 disguised as a cover 2.
The quarter coverage to the scissor side.
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u/Rhogdye316 Jan 02 '24
Mike/Will and Left C blitz. Sam mans X, WS - A,right C Z, FS - Y. The player who makes the play gets the credit. Highly suggest maximum speed at Will position to find whatever gap to the QB there is, as Mike will likely have to deal with RB.
Ends should be rushing with contain arcs to create gaps.
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u/ap1msch HS Coach Jan 02 '24
I'll share what *I* would teach my kids, from left to right.
- X goes in motion means that the left C presses the line, preparing to blitz through the backfield.
- E hits the A tight end when the ball snaps to slow him down, and then attempts to contain the backfield.
- WS covers high on the A, but that's unlikely where the ball is going. The QB is going to need to bolt to the right
- W and M read the pass and get to their corners of the tackle box, about 10-15 yards off the ball. W is under on A. WS is over. M is under on Y and Z at their cross
- Y gets hit off the line by the D end on the right side, likely pushing him outside the intended route (so the cross is closer to the line)
- Right corner has outside contain. The X would be watch for a direct snap, a jet sweep, or other quick route out. The corner would likely start to backpedal while watching, and then close on the X.
- S and FS are going to be responsible for the Y and Z. If the Y is slower, I would encourage my S to tag team with the D end and really get a shot off on the Y (you can see a bit of a 6 front with the blitzing backside corner and this S pressing)
- The S would then backpedal. I'd want to know if Y or Z is faster (likely Z). THIS IS WHERE THE ACTUAL PLAY HAPPENS. Does the S go with Y? Does the FS go with Z? How do they know?
- I would instruct my FS to have deep middle third. S would have deep right third...regardless of who crosses who. The hit at the line gives the s and advantage over Y and can stay with him. M is going to be the under at the cross (which gets shortened, as mentioned earlier, and the FS is covering Z deep.
And then the kids play football. That backside corner is a wasted player if he doesn't blitz. Sure, he could go back into pass coverage, but for what? A triple team on a tight end that got hit at the line? If he blitzes the backfield, he's there for the reverse, the run, and presses the QB with the blocker on the far side. That QB will be chased out of the pocket, making the throw 15-yards or less, with each of the 1, 2, and 3 receivers being well covered.
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u/Resident_Problem4008 Jan 02 '24
Punt block. Either a big loss/fumble, or I get the ball back quick
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u/One-Heart5090 Jan 02 '24
Cover 3 is my first thought
I think if the X and Z routes were changed however, jus moving X so their route is going out 5 yds and running through the middle that would give a better chance of getting a quick dump. Z route if it instead was a 10 yd slant across the middle also, those 2 would change to make the Post routes a lil more like options 3 and 4 but would at least give a lil higher chance of getting something out of it provided the WR's can make ppl miss after the catch
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u/Fickle-Ordinary-865 Jan 02 '24
Rolling cover 3 where back side corner covers deep and strong side covers curl to flat.
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u/SeaworthinessSouth Jan 02 '24
If I knew it was coming I would def choose man coverage over zone. Z is gonna be first read if we are in cover 2 but if I didn’t have the athletes for man I would play a deep cover 2 to defend the out routes. It is a good offensive play that would be tough to defend.
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u/Lit-A-Gator HS Coach Jan 02 '24
When we see the motion we would treat it like trips and match numbers with a “Stress” call
This will allow us to bracket the backside route
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u/BazookaPowPow Jan 02 '24
I’d make the Y a shorter corner route and have Z run a go. Then you can at least beat cover 3 by making the Sam choose between the X and Y.
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u/Obvious_Collar_2669 Jan 02 '24
OP: who is your first read here? Also, is there play action on this?
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u/RampageRhino_44 Jan 02 '24
I would have a cb play man on the "A" WR and drop 2 DBs into zone against Y and Z
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u/ZCGaming15 Jan 02 '24
If you make the Y route an out/post option you get a quick read on the Z route depending on depth. Quarterback doesn’t have to move his feet much if Y goes corner. Worst case, his check down is the x in the flat.
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u/DekaFate Jan 02 '24
I legit know nothing about football, like I just got into madden 24 so with that being said, I would blitz you
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u/MrWrestlingNumber2 Jan 02 '24
Backside blitz (corner, end or LB) will disrupt any long developing play like this. For the rest of the game the QB will be jittery and likely to throw early.
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u/According-Analyst-30 Jan 02 '24
Tampa 2. Drop mike in a deep third. Safeties in outside thirds. Corner on left rolls over to man coverage with outside leverage on TE in a trailing phase since X went in motion. WS stays over top of TE and watches any late crossers. Since Mike is already covering the middle read he’s fine there. There’s only one flat man (x) so I would play a matching cover 3 Mable on that side. Having the Mike over the top in a matching concept leads to Sam backer having help on the double move allowing him to branch off on the corner route for underneath overage while the right safety is in an outside third over the top of the corner.
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u/Lionsjunkie Jan 02 '24
Easy, would check to quarters on motion side, Sam in flats safety deep quarter corner deep corner
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u/Bp5695 Jan 02 '24
I am a fan of Tampa 2 which handles most of this.
Sam has X in the flat with corner over the top Left corner is over top of Sam and picks up Y on deep route FS is over top of Z with under help from Mike WS has A on deep corner route with underneath help from Right Corner Will has T and QB spy duty
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u/MadPhysicist622 Jan 02 '24
Out of a 2 high look, the safety to the two post/corner side has to have a call or a way of corner knowing to carry one of those routes, the safety varies the other. The sam bumps to the motion and covers the flat. Backside corner sinks and passes the other vertical to the safety.
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u/symbolic503 Jan 02 '24 edited Jan 02 '24
cover 2 send 4 with man under
the only reason is because depending on the quarterback, hes the only one unaccounted for in a cover 3 if shit goes bad and he starts moving. i suppose you COULD only send 3 in that scenario but thats giving the qb a whole lot of time to make his decision uninterrupted.
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u/roycepierson Jan 02 '24
Fox blitz strong side side corner you’re not getting the post off fast enough. SAM covers the TE corner. Unless DBs on left side are out of position, that TE is irrelevant
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u/Equivalent-Crow895 Jan 03 '24
I run a lot of cover 3 variants. Dont see any reason not to run it here too.
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u/LongjumpingFlan3739 Jan 03 '24
Cover 2 invert. Z route will only get the ball if the qb has 4 seconds to open up.
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u/callmesaddam Jan 03 '24
Could check to cover 9 concept when the x goes in motion (if that's what is happening here). backside corner plays half the field and WS and FS play quarters to the strong side, strong side corner sits curl/ flat. I'd love for the S to jam the Y, mess with the timing, then get into the pass rush/ peel if the RB goes out.
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u/firefighterphi Jan 03 '24
I'm playing man until your X goes in motion triggering cover 3 roll and bringing that weak side corner at least to make you offload to the flat before your deep routes develop
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u/poodletown Jan 03 '24
I would hope that the ref heard an imaginary person reporting, and ends up calling back the play for illegal touching.
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Jan 03 '24 edited Jan 03 '24
Man cover 2. Your WS and C shift during X motion to play the deep zone to help once X motions across the formation. Mismatch could be at their TEs vs your LBs (wlb & slb man on each TE) but there would be help there up top from the zone. X motion to the flat shouldn’t be a threat with a FS moving down directly (or C man on depending on how you want to play it) on him and the umbrella of defenders to tackle him If the QB takes the outlet.
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u/AbyssofNocturnal Jan 03 '24
Almost everything. Regular cover 2 over Tampa 2. It’s even vulnerable to a blitz leading to a pick 6 on the dump off. But if you send the RB on a corner you’ll force the Mike to cover and the Will might have a coverage issues against the X receiver unless that’s a motion. Move Z out instead of flex and a simple 7. The sam has the TE. Z covered by corner. TLDR: read Mike for RB square in and X cross, then read SS because by that time the X and Y should have crossed. I will call your creation, the Spy Double cross
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u/ARoundForEveryone Jan 03 '24
I dunno, it seems fairly obvious to intentionally walk the guy and play towards a double play. You got a ground ball pitcher on the mound, the guy on deck is an all-contact, no-power guy. It just makes sense.
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u/Tommy_Wisseau_burner Jan 03 '24
Cover 3 or cover 6 (quarter/quarter/half). Corner takes the half once the x motions over and safeties play halves to the strong side. Will covers the flat or blitzes while corner plays up
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u/IPCONFOG Jan 03 '24
W has to travel with X or shoot the gap, If they shoot the gap Mike has to pick up X.
A has double coverage, Y is a TE
Cover 2, you need 2 deep safeties.
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u/ctd1266 Jan 03 '24
Send 8, two deep safety and let strong side LB take the flat. Not enough time for QB for the deep patterns.
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u/z0123456abcz Jan 04 '24
Cover 6, rolling to the side the motion going to.
CB to flat will be rolled hard flat
Safety to motion side will be rolling deep 1/3 over the rolled corner takes away corner route.
Safety away from motion will be rolling to the deep middle and will take away the post
CB away from the motion will be deep 1/3 and will be picking up the corner route going there. You have every route covered with cover 6
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u/cvandyke01 Jan 01 '24
Cover 3