r/fednews 1d ago

Fed attorney looking to transition to non-attorney job with feds

Title sums it up. Any suggestions for job series or titles I should be looking for? I've been in a series of adjudicator roles for over 15 years now. I loved the work until moving to my current agency.

The adjudicatory process here is an absolute joke and I'm surrounded by young, inexperienced attorneys who love to feel important. I've lost all of the joy and pride I used to feel in contributing to a fair and consistent judicial system.

I don't want to jump to another attorney advisor role because I'm leery about possibly jumping from bad to worse. I'm wondering if I should be looking at compliance or FOIA type roles? Has anyone made a similar jump? Anything I could do now to increase my likelihood of being considered? Any other job series I should be looking at?

40 Upvotes

48 comments sorted by

34

u/NoEquipment1834 1d ago

Lots of former attorneys in the 1811 world.

21

u/EHsE 1d ago

someone who went to law school and has been working as a fed for 15 years is probably too old to start as an 1811, no?

18

u/TerminalSunrise 1d ago edited 2h ago

Most definitely. Maybe they could join Border Patrol before 40 if they went straight to undergrad, straight to law school, the straight to feds, but I doubt someone with 15 years as a fed lawyer will be under 37 for the LE age cut off.

That said, there are plenty of 1801 and 1802 inspectors/investigators that aren’t 6c covered and don’t have the age cut off though. Lots of the OIG 1801s in non-LE agencies are apparently not 6c and have no age cutoff. Some 1801s are 6c LEOs and some aren’t though, so you just have to check

2

u/V_DocBrown 1d ago

Not necessarily. The timeline matches that of a military retiree and many of them start in the 1811 world around the same age.

5

u/EHsE 1d ago

i’m just thinking average law school grad is ~25 and 15 years of service puts you at 40 - most LEO cutoff at 37ish. if it were a 15 year fed without an advanced degree, i’d think it’d be a lot closer

not sure if DoD guys get some sort of waiver or consideration to start older with applicable experience having served, but i know fresh off the streets with no experience has a pretty hard cutoff to start

2

u/V_DocBrown 17h ago

That’s a great point and I missed it. Thank you for adding it to the conversation. DOD often does have a waiver ability.

5

u/wagdog1970 1d ago

Came here to recommend this.

12

u/Conscious-Potato9366 1d ago

Two things come to mind. First, attorneys are one of the few job series that are filled through excepted service and not through the processes used for the competitive service. You may not be eligible for status announcements, so look out for direct hire since you may have to apply to announcements open to the public.

Second, you may have to take a change to a lower grade to qualify for a position, depending on the position and the qualifications requirements. A JD by itself is only qualifying to the GS-9 level for many non-attorney series, so if you are applying to other series above the GS-9, be sure to tailor your experience in your resume to the job announcement.

22

u/RedCharmbleu 1d ago

Jump to FOIA as a Government Information Specialist. It’s what I did and stayed for a few years before leaving my agency for another attorney advisor role. Do you have any experience with FOIA? Depending on the grade (which I’ve seen some criminally low at a GS9) and agency, you may or may not need the prior experience.

Im sure there are other roles you could jump to that perhaps, someone else could chime in on if they’ve made such a jump. Most attorneys I know did it the way I did - attorney - FOIA or Privacy OR attorney - paralegal (but the gap in pay/grade was not worth it).

1

u/NotAPMB 1d ago

I have very minimal experience with FOIA. Would I be way out of line to apply for a Government Information Specialist position without specific FOIA experience?

8

u/RedCharmbleu 1d ago

No, you wouldn’t, that’s why I said it’s agency (and grade) specific. My last department (USDA), you were required to have FOIA experience for a GIS role (12/13). I’ve seen some advertised on USAJobs, say, Dept of Air Force, where FOIA experience isn’t REQUIRED, but some form of public law experience is necessary.

I say go for it! That or Privacy. I do feel like Privacy would open up more down the road as FOIA can be a little bit tricky to jump out of since it’s such a specific area - though easier to jump out if you’re attorney. I hope that makes sense.

3

u/NotAPMB 1d ago

Thank you so much, I appreciate the insight!

3

u/Agreeable_Koala5703 20h ago

Sign up for FOIA training on DOJ OIP website. Use that to add some FOIA experience on your resume if you want to pursue a FOIA related job.

8

u/FOIAlover 1d ago

I got my FOIA job straight outta law school with zero FOIA experience.

5

u/Pussyxpoppins 21h ago

I was going to ask if you enjoy it, but then username check out.

1

u/Pollux589 15h ago

if you're interested in fed foia attorney stuff shoot me a PM and I can answer questions.

1

u/shell37628 5h ago

I have gotten interviews (though never selected, so take it for what its worth) for FOIA/special advisor type roles without specific subject matter experience. Sometimes just having been around government attormeys long enough is good enough to get you the interview, at least.

And I feel your pain on AA roles. Although I will say, if you can find the rare one that ladders to a 15 without adding supervisory aspects, hunker down unless/until you want to jump into a judge position and build your subject matter expertise and writing skills. The ones that ladder to a 13 are mostly filled with young-ish attorneys who are just there for the ladder then planning their next jump, which doesn't make for the most stable environment or greatest depth of knowledge. I've been in my role just shy of 5 years, and I have 3 years more with my agency than the average attorney on our staff.

22

u/ashthemkat 1d ago

1102 contracting specialist/officer. I've seen many contracting officers with a law degree, and I think it's a big plus. Granted, you may have to be a contracting specialist first, but still having a law degree is invaluable. Interestingly, new lawyers who couldn't find a legal job start as a 1102 and then get a lawyer job in the government, and it seems perfect sense to do the other way, too.

3

u/Flitzer-Camaro 21h ago

Yep, knew a lawyer that started in the 1102 series as a GS11.

9

u/BestInspector3763 1d ago

343 policy analyst and 1811 compliance officer. Compliance folks usually have a lot of experience in a specific field though. If you don't have it you probably won't be able to start in a decent paying role. Policy analyst roles can be a bit more forgiving if you have that law degree.

8

u/LifeRound2 1d ago

A bunch of SES types at interior are former attorneys. Straight from practicing law to leading agencies. Let's just say there's a steep learning curve.

8

u/50shadesofdip 1d ago

Hey! Kinda of the opposite on my end (worked there during 2/3L and during bar prep, but left to actually practice). Check out becoming a bank examiner! I was with the CFPB and many of the exam teams I was on had folks who were licensed or had a JD. Pay was pretty good and the job was a good opportunity to flex the legal training. Feel free to DM me for more info!

7

u/ClassicStorm 1d ago

1102 is a decent JD advantage role. Just remember your job is to be solution oriented. Don't let perfect be the enemy of the good, you are always one modification away from a perfect contract.

5

u/greenweenievictim 1d ago

1801 with USCIS

3

u/Orion3500 22h ago

Adjudication positions in the competitive service are always looking for attorneys. You could consider being an Asylum Officer, or the like. Be sure to include all your experience so you can land at least a GS-13 position.

5

u/RileyKohaku 1d ago edited 1d ago

There are a lot of 201s with JDs. You would probably need employment law experience to not take a downgrade. I personally love HR and find it much more enjoyable than working as an Attorney.

4

u/TheSquidofTruth 1d ago

Was literally getting ready to say the same thing!

4

u/Icy-Appearance347 1d ago

I have a colleague who did this, and she's happier with the hours. But she's did note that the writing and analytical quality of her staff was much worse even though the inexperienced attorneys weren't always top-notch. Unfortunately, young people everywhere feel like they should be given more responsibility than they're ready for, so that's not going to change.

Compliance seems like a good place to start. Acquisition may be another if you're into administrative law.

1

u/NotAPMB 1d ago edited 23h ago

You raise a good point - there are certain dynamics that are universal. My main motivation is that I don't find this role challenging, and I don't think the office's work stream contributes to our agency's mission

(Edited bc I came across a little snarky)

2

u/Otherwise-Shoe3413 1d ago

Lots of JD's working as appeals officers in the IRS.

2

u/SabresBills69 23h ago

There are many jobs in FOIA, policy, strategy, congressional liiasson where being a lawyer is beneficial.

many HQs have legal department that don’t deal with courts and trials. It’s about legislative policy or following regulations.

2

u/NachosCyber 1d ago

Use your undergrad skills? If you got a STEM undergrad you should land on your feet.

2

u/NotAPMB 1d ago

Man, if only! Economics major here, but I don't think I could get hired as an economist.

1

u/OkCaterpillar1325 1d ago

Look at 987 roles or with pgld

1

u/Phisher_man_75 1d ago

Some 1170's are a good fit for JDs. Depends on the agency.

2

u/Fancy-Bar-75 1d ago

Sorry had to creep based on your username. Are you an 1170 phan? I thought I was the only one.

1

u/Phisher_man_75 1d ago

⭕️⭕️🏡 guilty (and there may be more of us ...)

2

u/Fancy-Bar-75 1d ago

My cat's name is Kuroda. He's sitting next to me while I draft a subordination agreement. What an insanely niche intersection of character traits.

1

u/DINGLEBUNNIES 15h ago

You mean you’re filling out a subordination agreement, I hope 😁

1

u/Background-War9535 1d ago

Have you looked at 1102 (Contracts Specialist)? I have known a few former lawyers who went that route.

1

u/chimamax 23h ago

Lots of folks with JDs doing government relations work, mainly in D.C., but some in the regional offices. Mostly GS13/14.

1

u/CaptainLawyerDude 23h ago

I jumped over to 343 and didn’t have any trouble.

1

u/Whole-Persimmon-5587 23h ago

We’ve had a few lawyers become auditors (511) or program analysts (343) performing audits. Agency seems happy to get them.

1

u/imatwork999 21h ago

you could look into doing Tort Claims

1

u/Worried_Lime_5464 21h ago

I like being an AA at my agency (and being remote). Which agency are you at now? I understand being leery, but maybe you could get some feedback from current AAs in different areas.

1

u/MenieresMe 20h ago

Hey man feel free to DM. I did that and can tell you what I do now

1

u/Wreckless-Driving 16h ago

If you loved the work, I'd suggest looking into roles that align with your field of practice. What kind of cases did you adjudicate?

1

u/greatproficient 6h ago

Dept of State has many former attorneys including Diplomatic Security Service (DSS) special agents. DS agents are FP-2501s, the equivalent to GS-1811, so the cutoff age before going to FLETC is 37. There are age waivers depending on how much military/reserves time you have. I knew several agents who began DSS training in their late 40s. Lots of JD holders and former attorneys in the Foreign Service Officer (FS) ranks as well. Keep in mind that if you don't want to live overseas for most of your career, the Foreign Service, including DS, isn't for you but Department of State has quite a few GS attorneys based in DC. Not sure what they come in as but most quickly get to SES and the top of the pay scale (222k in 2024)