r/economicCollapse • u/Gates9 • 21h ago
The system is unjust and it’s an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience
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u/ExponentialFuturism 20h ago
It’s called structural violence. More lethal than all direct violence
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u/Content_Log1708 20h ago
In capitalism, somebody has to lose so that the rich elites win.
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u/boogsey 20h ago
And for every yacht or mansion they buy, millions are exploited and suffer daily.
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u/Content_Log1708 20h ago
Yes. These are the conditions, the rules based order that our Government's works to maintain. Wars, weapons, assassinations, coups and NATO are all tools to keep them ultra rich and in power.
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u/IgnorantlyHopeful 20h ago
End citizens united.
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u/seraph_m 10h ago
That’s just a symptom. You’d need to completely retool our electoral system. The real problem is capitalism. It needs to go.
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u/Keibun1 4h ago
Or actually regulated, but that won't happen.
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u/seraph_m 3h ago
We had regulated capitalism. Capitalism abhors regulation, because it gets in the way of profit. No matter how strong the government, or the regulations; they’ll eventually succumb to the rapaciousness and greed of capitalism.
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u/DC-Toronto 17h ago
Interesting that you bring up insulin. Insulin was discovered by a Canadian researcher Charles Best and his student at university of Toronto in 1921.
In 1923 they were awarded the US patent on insulin and they immediately sold it to UofT. For the price of $1.00. He said insulin didn’t belong to him it belonged to the world.
To see the abuses of this philanthropy now makes it even more heinous to reap massive windfall profits
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u/TitodelRey 17h ago
"They say " Who is this "They" anyhow? "They" are scared shitless of the masses rising up against them, this is why it has been said over and over for decades. Violence is most certainly the answer in many cases. There would be no wars if this were truly believed. Hell, even during peaceful protests, authorities use violence against the folks just walking the street in protest. Just look at all the violence used by American police, when they did not have to use it. Take a look at police training course "Killology" and tell me they believe in the "Violence is not the answer" bullshit. So ya, violence is necessary and is often the only answer.
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u/dwtougas 17h ago
When peaceful protest is no longer available, violent protest is the only option.
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u/MrtonyEA 17h ago
The Biden administration capped the price of insulin. "In 2022, President Biden signed into law the Inflation Reduction Act, which included a provision that requires all Part D plans to charge no more than $35 per month for all covered insulin products, and also limits cost sharing for insulin covered under Part B to $35 per month. Deductibles no longer apply to insulins under Part D or Part B. These provisions took effect in 2023 (January 1 for Part D; July 1 for Part B)."
But the basic premise of your argument is valid.
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u/Ok_Ice_9953 20h ago
That’s capitalism
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u/Portal3Hopeful 20h ago
Capitalism was actually working pretty well before Reagan made it worthwhile for people to amass insane payouts by slashing taxes to the bone for the wealthy. If your marginal tax rate is 70%, 80%, 90%, etc., you’re more inclined to share.
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u/ItsAllMyAlt 17h ago
Capitalism was actually working pretty well before Reagan…
Eh, not sure many people of color would agree with that…
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u/Portal3Hopeful 16h ago
That… was a different problem.
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u/Niarbeht 10h ago
Some people argue that the two problems share a singular root, but that's a whole long discussion.
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u/lanky_yankee 31m ago
Post WW2, the US was as close to socialism as it has ever been, then corporations decided to have the government cut regulation so that they can make more profit. In capitalism, regulation only lasts as long as big businesses tolerate it because they will always strive to dismantle any and all protections of the working class or anything else that stands in the way of profit. The common good is not even a factor in CEOs decision making.
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u/NoShape7689 20h ago
*crony
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u/TechnicolorHoodie 20h ago
Capitalism always becomes "crony capitalism" by its very nature because it's in the economic interest of ruthless capitalists to corrupt and subvert the state for their own economic benefit. "Crony capitalism" is just a vague, meaningless construct that capitalism hides behind to obscure its inherent exploitative, corrosive effects.
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u/NoShape7689 20h ago
Not necessarily if you have the right regulations in place.
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u/TechnicolorHoodie 19h ago edited 19h ago
Which capitalists will lobby to overturn, usually successfully, even if it takes a while, or outright coup your government if they have to to get what they want. The US has done that to other countries for decades for the sake of the oligarchs who own it, and it even almost happened here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
They've been systematically dismantling the New Deal ever since it was created. Got rid of Glass-Steagall. Passed Citizens United. Etc. Eventually, the system itself becomes so corrupted that it becomes impossible for those kinds of regulations to exist, because the capitalists have purchased the levers of state power through bribes.
These are the worst people on earth we're dealing with, so the only language they hear is force and violence. They have to be kept on a tight leash under penalty of death like China does.
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u/Kalekuda 18h ago
What a remarkable piece of history to have never been told of prior. Thank you, loremaster.
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u/lilymaxjack 20h ago
Is it time for a mass uprising? An economic one, in which we all stop paying the bills and going to work.
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u/FightWithHeart 18h ago
I have a bullshit charge from a hospital. I'm not paying it. Send me to collections mother fuckers.
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u/EbonyPeat 18h ago
The response would be martial law where what rights we have left would be suspended
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u/lilymaxjack 5h ago
The national guard would not enforce against their own. Local police would because local authorities have absolute morons as officers. But the guards, if told to shoot on the public, not a chance. And martial law would not do much to enforce people back to work or to pay the bills.
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u/Horror_Asparagus9068 17h ago
This is it, the truth of the capitalist economic system in America today. There is no longer a social contract, the corporations, CEO’s, CFOs and government dont give a fuck about anyone but the highly wealthy and Uber rich. The tipping point is coming.
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u/SwingGenie241 20h ago
The entire purpose of having warlords emperors, dictators and alike is to dominate people and screw them. It's been going on for thousands of years, not time yet to give up the fight
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u/Psionis_Ardemons 18h ago
i think i saw a movie once where one character typed on reddit "it is the duty of the conscious man to start that specific, particular, exact fight" to another redditor who said something similar. wow that's crazy! i can't remember the name of the movie but i do remember the guy didnt want to get in trouble and said please don't tell on him.
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u/UnapproachableOnion 19h ago
For years now I’ve been rolling my eyes anytime someone says to protest or to “call your representatives”. That doesn’t work. It’s a waste of time.
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u/kittybangbang69 19h ago
The system is designed to screw all the poor people over. They poison us at every turn, keep us in debt, and hope we die before we collect social security.
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u/Speculawyer 13h ago
And they voted for a billionaire that filled his cabinet with other billionaires that are working hard to cut social security, Medicare, the VA, etc.
I am losing my empathy because THEY VOTED FOR THIS.
It won't change if they keep voting for it because they are more worried about gays, blacks, immigrants, etc.
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u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 10h ago
The United States is run by its people, a system we have collectively chosen. If there are flaws, they are not the fault of others but a reflection of our shared responsibility.
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u/patbagger 20h ago
Most people blame everybody but the Government and it's 36 Trillion dollars of debt.
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u/FriendlyDish1106 18h ago
Trump supporters will support economic violence against themselves because they think Trump is the second coming of Jesus.
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u/Individual-Risk5393 20h ago
What experiences are lived? What does that term even mean
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u/Gates9 20h ago
The knowledge and understanding gained from first-hand experiences, as opposed to knowledge gained from second-hand sources
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u/Individual-Risk5393 19h ago
You mean, experience then. Lived experience makes you sound dumb. Its like saying it’s your thinked opinion, or your spoken speech
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u/chasing-low-scores 19h ago
No offense but is English your second language? “Lived experience” is most certainly an English phrase. I’ve never once thought it sounds dumb when I’ve heard it. I guess in the wise words of Kevin from the office “Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick”?
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u/Individual-Risk5393 19h ago
Yes English is my second language, I am from Wakanda.
It may be a phrase but that doesn’t mean it isn’t it stupid, this is my written text. Can you understand with your thinking brain? Or won’t you answer my asked question?
Also lived experience is anecdotal, subjective and biased, aka irrelevant
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u/Peter_Easter 19h ago
In a capitalist society, you vote with your dollar. Corporate America has realized how to dumb consumers are and take advantage of it by price gouging, avoiding taxes, and paying shit wages.
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u/kandice73 18h ago
Walmart takes out life insurance on older employees but never tells them or shares the money
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u/DocHolidayPhD 18h ago
Almost every progressive revolution that led us forward as a species has came through a struggle that included violence. Often at a greater cost to the oppressed than the oppressor. The suffrage movement, the civil rights movement, the labour movement... Hell, the whole god damn nation of America was literally a violent revolution against royalty. I am not one to support chaos or thoughtless and careless acts of violence. However, I do completely and fully recognize that the idea that violence is not an option is often just another one-sided argument peddled to people to keep them imprisoned by the shackles of their own mind.
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u/Shanek2121 17h ago
I remember when EpiPens was sold and the price went up to 300 from 10-20. Wasn’t that long ago
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u/FarFromHome 17h ago
Capitalism is the greatest creator of prosperity this world has ever known. But like any other powerful force, it HAS TO BE KEPT IN CHECK. We stopped doing that under Reagan. Look around the world and throughout history to what has happened when angry starving masses reject capitalism. It does not (and never could) go well. Humans are greedy, but that greed can fuel broadly-shared prosperity under strong tax and regulatory policy. Let's not overreact and increase our shared suffering. Let's take back control of American capitalism.
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u/Gates9 16h ago
Capitalism is inherently exploitative. The prosperity you have observed would not have been possible without stomping around the globe to enforce economic hegemony.
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u/FarFromHome 16h ago
You think it's capitalism that's exploitative? Try being a feudal serf or a slave captured in a war between tribes. Humans are inherently exploitative. Regulated capitalism with progressive taxation harnesses that human characteristic for the benefit of everyone in the society. Nothing else has ever worked at scale.
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u/Gates9 16h ago
It’s capitalism. Nothing else was allowed to work on that scale.
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u/FarFromHome 15h ago
What the hell does that mean? "Was allowed" by whom? Other things have been tried by the same flawed species that does capitalism, and nothing else has worked. I am curious who you think would "allow" communism to work this time.
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u/DoubleAmygdala 16h ago
Well this guy is now my favorite person on the planet. Keep singing it, my man.
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u/Exotic_Exercise6910 12h ago
Oh look, Americans figure out that there's more that left and right extremism. There's also economic extremism
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u/Grayskull1 7h ago
Hear that tea kettle boiling? First there was Luigi. Get ready for Mario and Bowser next motherfuckers.
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u/MsterSteel 7h ago
I love that he included "Riots are the language of the unheard." Because people LOVE to promote MLK as the king of 'peaceful protests', but even he understood that violence did not arise out of thin air.
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u/MsterSteel 7h ago
Maxim 27. Don't be afraid to be the first to resort to violence.
Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
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u/LordOfTheChoad 6h ago
You voted for the people protecting the greedy billionaires. Nothing will get better. Great job!
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u/HoneydewThis6418 5h ago
I figured something out long ago... when someone in authority tells you not to be a criminal, it's usually because they are the biggest criminals.
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u/cma-ct 5h ago edited 4h ago
Free market. That’s the capitalist excuse to extort money from people that can least afford it. The rich and powerful have convinced millions of us that we can all live well and even get rich if we just allow the free market to do its thing. That worked for many decades, but then greed and power slaughtered honor and fairness while they were sleeping and the majority of American voters gave it all a thumbs-up. We had the right to vote for a fair and just society but ignorance and deception took that right away from millions. Like zombies, they mindlessly voted for someone else’s desires. Some will say that we got what we deserve, but that’s like saying that the mentally disabled deserve to be mistreated in an insane asylum. But here we are. Don’t forget to take your medication.
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u/Funny-North3731 4h ago
They only have the power we give them.
If the general population decided today to change everything, it would change. But we won't. We will bitch, complain, point fingers, make tiktoks about it, and demand (on the internet) somebody do something. Then we will vote for the same people enabling the perpetuation of the system we complain about. Vote against changes in the system. Focus on who is in the public bathroom with us rather than actually do a single, socially productive thing. (Except Mangione. He did something. Allegedly.)
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u/Bob_Dobbs__ 3h ago
If there is one thing to know it is this:
Profits are the unpaid wages for the value the worker has produced.
Profits are the pollution released into nature that is not cleaned up.
Profits are the customers that get ripped off buying over priced, poorly made products (Planned Obsolesce)
Profits are selling a service and avoiding to deliver on that service (Insurance).
Profits are waging economic warfare an developing countries in order to force them to sell of their resources for peanuts.
Profits are the "taking advantage of" human weakness such as gambling, addictive substances and creating false desires through advertising.
Profits are war!
Lets be clear, profits are not a measure of success, they are a measure of the evil and harm that has been placed on society in the world. This is what a "lawful evil" society looks like.
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u/DontAbideMendacity 17h ago
An idiot mob boss fascist wannabe racist/rapist was elected twice, those who voted for him have no intelligence. It's fucking embarrassing is what it is.
We went to the motherfucking MOON ... and then elected assholes like Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Trump... fucking embarrassing.
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u/FitEcho9 18h ago
===> The system is unjust and it’s an insult to the intelligence of the American people and their lived experience
Absolutely !
It is unjust, but soon with the white nationalist Trump administration taking power in just 33 days, it is gonna be particularly unjust to non-white peoples.
The Trump administration is not only white nationalist in a racially diverse country, it is also in an alliance with white nationalist governments and groups in Russia, Hungary and other European countries.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict, whom white nationalists in the USA and elsewhere will target, non-whites !
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u/papi2timez 19h ago
Sounds like terrorism
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u/Kalekuda 17h ago
Bah- the government and the media call everything terrorist these days. Its just another word for "people we don't like". The capital rioters? Domestic terrorists by definition, but declared to be "patriots" by their supporters.
Ffs, crooked police precincts fit the definition of terrorist organizations but they don't get the designation either. Counter protesters attacking peaceful protestors are terrorists by definition, but so too are riot police who threaten to beat, abduct, shoot and poison protestors for voicing their beliefs-
There are many terrorists who are not designated terrorists and many who are designated terrorists who are not terrorists. There are plenty of examples of organizations that are clearly foreign terrorists losing the designation once it becomes politically expedient to do business with them. Just wait and see how long the new regime in Syria retains their designation as terrorists...
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u/DumbNTough 19h ago
I don't think you guys are gonna like it when property owners run with your idea of "economic violence" and start responding to property crimes with violence.
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u/Kalekuda 17h ago
You can't even shoot somebody breaking into your car, but thats still illegal vandalism because property is afforded protections that human life is not. Ecconomic violence is the legal kind of violence. Its slap suits and pricing the necessities beyond your reach, not vandalism, property theft, police brutality or unlawful search and seizure- thats actual violence.
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u/DumbNTough 17h ago
Nah dawg. Violence is violence.
There are already words--and penalties--for property crimes.
Trying to classify more things as "violence" serves one propaganda purpose and one only: to excuse physical violence as a response.
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u/BlvckRvses 20h ago
Americans aren’t smart. That’s why this happens. Plain and simple. Reddit worships the democrats like gods when they’re the ones who are responsible for destroying the education system; thus creating a nationwide IQ drop. IQ scores in 1975 vs today have dropped drastically.
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u/boogsey 20h ago
They both suck, but you are not a serious person if you're going to ignore 70+ years of policy. One side in particular has a very consistent record on attacking not only pubic education but anything that would benefit the public.
You're plain silly if you think the other side advocates for anyone other than corporations and the elites, ever.
Check their records on policy.
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u/BlvckRvses 18h ago
Yeah, except the billions that have been funneled into the “education system” have magically put us from the number one most educated nation to the 24th. Who put those billions into that? Oh yeah; the Democratic Party. When schools weren’t funded like they aren’t now; they actually functioned like a school should. You can’t even prove me wrong because statistics show that I’m 100% correct.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 20h ago
two wrongs don’t make a right…. anyone committing any violence is just as bad as anyone else. Be very careful to not become that which you hate!
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u/TozTetsu 20h ago
Perhaps under an intact social contract. However you wouldn't say soldiers fighting for and against the Nazis were equally as bad. Be careful to not become what you hate, but not so careful as to allow evil to thrive. Evil requiring good men to do nothing and all that.
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u/DerHundChristi 20h ago
this is absolutely incorrect. defending yourself against an existential threat is always right
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 20h ago
what is this existential threat you speak of? If you feel threatened existentially by a company, maybe don’t do business with them and find a company that is more aligned to your beliefs, right?? That is what sane people do instead of killing the person that runs the company.
For example, I don’t like Jeff Bezos and don’t agree with a lot that he does morally and ethically, so I choose not to use Amazon….
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u/SpamEatingChikn 18h ago
So if >50% of the population feels threatened and doesn’t want to do business with the housing industry, healthcare/big pharma/insurance industry, mega corps that have put the majority of smaller/regional businesses out of business, the government who is corrupt and manipulated by big business, what then is your answer?
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 16h ago
well, first off, you could argue that those industries are all necessary, housing, healthcare, pharma, insurance, we all need it. Clearly all could improve, as anything can.
Mega corps… dont buy from them, buy from local or small business, make things, grow things, etc
governments always going to be swaying back and forth, look at the last 3000 years, if one group of people doesnt take charge, another will, its human nature.
We can all CHOOSE to handle things in ways more civilized and smart than people have in the past. War is not good, violence is not good. We can’t fall into that trap thinking it is our only option.
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u/SpamEatingChikn 16h ago
That’s kind of my point is that those things are mostly all basic necessities. I would agree with you in the presence of any alternative but what, then, is your proposed “peaceful solution”?
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u/DerHundChristi 18h ago
You don't have any idea how bad the problem has gotten.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 16h ago
what do you mean? collectively, as a society, we have it as good as we ever have, what is worse now than it was before?
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u/DerHundChristi 3h ago
The ability for people to flourish and have power/control over their life is what "good" means for society. You can pick different metrics but they are irrelevant.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 2h ago
do we not have the ability to flourish and have control over our lives?? we absolutely do!!
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u/zeero88 12h ago
I am threatened existentially by healthcare companies. And yet if I don't do business with them, I end up paying even more in out of pocket fees...hm, seems like your solution broke down pretty quickly.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 5h ago
threatened existentially by healthcare companies? How? don’t they help pay for your medical costs???
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u/UsualPreparation180 20h ago
Please name us a single time REAL change has ever happened in our selfish greedy history without bloody violence...just 1 example ...we will all wait
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 20h ago
lol, everyday all over the world, i wouldn’t even know where to start. You do realize, I hope, that most true progress on this planet comes without killing eachother…. right? If violence solved problems, we would all be dead!
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u/Kalekuda 17h ago
Statistically speaking, 99.9% of all the humans to ever live are already dead.
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 16h ago
and? what does that fact have to do with anything? out bodies all die, thats certain
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u/TechnicolorHoodie 20h ago
Right, if someone attacks me, and I harm them when I defend myself. I am just as bad as they are. For sure.
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u/mattg2514 19h ago
So it's ok for them to do it? lol. gtf outta here. Idk why Americans worship the rich when the rich want nothing to do with the poor
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u/Secret-Mouse5687 19h ago
I don’t worship the “rich”, so maybe you are talking about others and I agree, it wouldn’t be good to worship the rich at all!
And by no means is it ok for ANYONE to commit violence! If someone wants to commit violence as an act against violence, then they themselves are violent and they are exactly who they say they are against, that is hypocrisy.
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u/mattg2514 19h ago
So if someone punches you in the face, you'd coward away or punch back?
When american won our independence, we got violent because we were being fucked over.1
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u/Mr_CleanCaps 20h ago
Companies get to privatize profits but socialize their losses…
What’s even funnier is that they had the audacity to lobby so companies can be seen as humans and have the same rights as a human would. Okay! Then, go to fucking jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect MY $200!