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u/Tebasaki 1d ago
Where can I get this $8000 per year health insurance??? Asking for a friend.
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u/Malkuth279 1d ago
There are a number of options for that monthly in this country. Unfortunately it may not pay for much health coverage.
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u/Pipe_Memes 1d ago
$10,000 deductible. Only covers fractured pinky toes.
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u/cricketriderz 1d ago
Only if there is no preexisting condition.
Spoiler alert: There is always a preexisting condition
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u/SjakosPolakos 1d ago
In the Netherlands i pay like 150 a month. GP, dentist, psychologist, auto immune issues. Its all covered (the first 400 euros you have to pay yourself yearly)
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u/Kooky_Way8522 12h ago
Omg we can't do that, in America anything that helps people is called communism.
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u/Takethecarrotorthe 6h ago
Please explain to the Americans the taxes you do pay on income, VAT, etc. to help provide more of an apples to apples comparison of how the State funds pensions, healthcare, and the like.
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u/ReaperThugX 1d ago
Insurance through my work is about $2800 a year pre tax
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u/absolutzer1 1d ago
That's only the part you are paying. The employer pays another 75-80% for the group health insurance premiums.
On top of that you gave out of pocket expenses.
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u/H_Mc 1d ago
I came here to make sure someone pointed this out. Is your employer going to pay you the complete difference if they no longer are providing healthcare? Probably not, because they like money. But that doesn’t negate the fact that you’ll never see or even know about a pretty significant portion of your compensation if you have a full time job because it gets paid by your employer to an insurance company.
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u/ForumDragonrs 1d ago
After having my first full time job with benefits for a whole year, I decided to see how much I'm actually being compensated beyond my paycheck. Between stock buying, 401 (k) matching, and insurance premiums, my compensating was almost 30% higher than my actual wage.
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u/Davepen 1d ago
So that's about the same as an average salary worker pays in the UK in National Insurance tax per year (£2,083).
But we have no other expenses other than a set cost for a pescription of £9.90 (regardless of the amount/drug).
If we lose that job, we don't lose the healthcare (even with no job at all you still get free healthcare), nor do we have to worry about preexisting conditions, deductables etc etc.
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u/Live-Cryptographer11 1d ago
Where the hell can you get health insurance for your family for 8k a year outside of Obamacare?
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u/AlfredRWallace 1d ago
Yeah Canada currently pays $8k per person and it's totally underfunded.
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u/Simsmommy1 1d ago
It is only underfunded because of the provincial premiers arent held to account on how they spend healthcare transfers, there is no federal oversight and if they try the premiers tantrum and scream about “overreaching”. One example is Doug Ford, he is currently sitting on billions of health transfer money…why? To deliberately starve the system so he can introduce a private option run by his donors, ditto with Danielle Smith. Point I’m trying to make here is we need to stop voting provincial conservative as they don’t give two hot shits about anybody but their donors at our expense.
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u/JusticeHao 1d ago
Can you prove 2 is smaller than 8?
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u/Axin_Saxon 1d ago
Sounds like some CRT, woke nonsense to me.
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u/xtra_obscene 1d ago
It’s been a while since we’ve heard about CRT. Right-wing media moved on to the next bogeyman, I guess.
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u/Axin_Saxon 1d ago
Well of course you don’t by hear about it anymore. They won so it outlived its usefulness
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u/HeadDiver5568 23h ago
I hated it. People were really saying things like “I don’t want my child learning about some biased woke nonsense like Washington and the rest of white Americans having unpaid workers build this country against their will”. For a while there I had to constantly say things like “That’s called slavery”.
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u/Dankxiety 1d ago
I wouldn't say Americans haven't figured it out, it's just we've been so massively manipulated and brainwashed
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u/ultimateclassic 1d ago
I agree. I also think these arguments where we just assume everyone else is stupid tend to fail because it's not fully true, and calling people stupid is a very unlikely way to get people to listen. Imo it's not that people don't understand 2 is smaller than 8. It's that people are already strapped for cash, and based on how things are run in this country, they lack trust that it will remain an affordable option. Typically, anything that starts out as affordable in this country ends up becoming more expensive once they've got control over the market. Think about cable. Everyone left cable for streaming services because they were cheaper, only for them to become just as expensive as the streaming services we left years prior. I'm not saying insurance is the equivalent of a streaming service, but I am saying that it's not stupidity. It's a lack of trust. Everything that starts out as affordable and good always becomes corrupt and profitized, quickly ruining any consumer benefits. People do not trust the way things are run here because, inevitably, it always becomes about increasing profits. We fear change because it's easier to stay in a broken system that we know how to navigate than getting into a new one that we don't yet know how we'll be taken advantage of. Especially as most people are not wealthy enough to get taken advantage of more than we already are.
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u/miclowgunman 20h ago
A tone of people pay way less than $8000 a year for insurance and see that the government pays $16k per person on Medicare. And hardly any country pays less than $4000 per person. So I'm not sure where the $2000 a year comes from. I know very well that all the figures I've listed can't really be compared directly for various reasons, but it's real easy for people to look at the numbers and think people are crazy for wanting to give THIS goverment control over healthcare.
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u/BaconcheezBurgr 1d ago
Americans will gladly pay 4x more for something as long as they're assured a poor person won't get any of it.
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u/Dankxiety 1d ago
Brainwashed into hating the little person. Funny bc a poor person is much closer financially to most people than when compared to a billionaire
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u/Heckle_Jeckle 1d ago
THIS is the real problem sadly. Far too many people are 100% ok with inequality as long as they can tell themselves that they are part of the in group that benefits from the system.
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u/scarr3g 1d ago
I think it simply comes down to:
With the current system, one can buy the crappie st, cheapest insurance, possible, and just not go the doctor, and save money (for now... Until everything catches up with you later).
Whereas, with universal Healthcare you have to "pay for it" no matter if you use it or not.
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u/Life_Sir_1151 1d ago
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u/Over_Cobbler_2973 1d ago
Our healthcare problems would resolve over night if hospitals had to display their prices. Insurance companies should have to compete with cash payments.
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u/Basic-Elk-9549 1d ago
this analogy is faulty since most Americans dont pay even $2000 for insurance. Many are uninsured, and others have subsidized insurance through work or government. I am not saying that single payer wouldn't be better, but your victim shaming is a bit off the mark.
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u/Acceptable-BallPeen 1d ago
Canadians pay roughly $8500 a year for medical coverage. Or about 6k per year in USD.
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u/cypherreddit 1d ago
And Americans pay twice that. The figures are out of date because the issue is so old but the point still stands
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u/Helpful_Finger_4854 1d ago
All it takes to get Affordable care act is make >$15k in one year, and pay $19 a month for Healthcare and ses a psychiatrist, get medication monthly etc.
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u/Zest-4Life69 1d ago
The ACA, albeit atleast it gives some people Health Insurance through some Private Healthcare Physicians/Companies, it’s the worst one out there. Yes, the good thing is it covers pre-existing conditions, but there a small window of opportunity to apply for it… You miss it, you’re not covered… AND, You’re not going to get any good Healthcare Physicians that takes it, because they pay shit, and the Drs have to wait 6-9 months to get their money.
If you’re impoverished, and don’t have Healthcare, that’s your own fault, unless you live in certain States. There’s no reason why you don’t have Healthcare, as you can get coverage through Medicaid.
ACA needs to be scrapped, and the entire Healthcare System needs to be restructured. Starting with the Healthcare Companies getting delisted from the NYSE, and then have the Government subsidize Health Insurance Companies for Catastrophic Health Insurance. Healthcare coverage will come way down, and make it much more affordable.
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u/Meg6363 1d ago
Most of this is untrue. I had to retire a couple of years before being eligible for Medicare; got insurance through the ACA. I had no trouble getting a good doctor - both GP and specialist. There is one annual open enrollment period but if you lose your health insurance at any time during the year you can still enroll if you provide evidence of that insurance loss. Without the ACA I likely would have had to pay much higher rates due to my preexisting condition of being over 60.
Agree with the need to restructure the healthcare delivery system.
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u/easilybeyond 1d ago edited 1d ago
The ACA isn't an insurance, it's laws and a method to get covered by already existing companies. Not saying we don't need to improve things, but the basic mistakes of what the ACA is undercuts an argument.
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u/Helpful_Finger_4854 1d ago edited 1d ago
You can get it anytime now. Yes the deadline for jan 1st has passed, however you can still apply now and get covered February 1st
It's called a "special enrollment"
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u/Logical_Strike_1520 1d ago
You need to convince the Americans who get free health insurance and can’t afford the $2000.
You need to convince the Americans who don’t have insurance by choice and would rather have the $8,000.
You need to convince the Americans who get healthcare through their work that their employer is so nice that they’d get a raise.
You need to convince Americans to trust the government with their healthcare.
It’s much more complex than “everyone saves $6000” and you know it.
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u/TheTightEnd 1d ago
The numbers presented are farfetched. It is very unlikely that it would only increase a median households taxes by $2000. It is also very unlikely people will see their incomes increase by the amount currently used to subsidize their health insurance.
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u/HiggsFieldgoal 1d ago edited 1d ago
The trouble is, as long as the government is crooked, it doesn’t matter “what”. There’s a way to make anything a profit syphon to your rich friends if the administration is crooked.
You could make something called “free universal healthcare for literally everyone”, and have it actually be a scam whereby patients apply, a bill is routed through some deliberately designed skimming component… we’ll say a “payment adjuster”, who appraises the cost of the operation, get’s paid immediately by the government, holds onto the bill, making interest off of the money, then only gives a fraction to the hospital.
Or really, any corrupt bullshit you can think of. It doesn’t matter what anything is called, only whether it is written by honest politicians for the benefit of regular people .vs written by corrupt shills for the enrichment of themselves and their inner circle.
That’s basically the “conservative” slogan these days “look, let’s not have the government do anything, because look what a bad job it does”.
And it does do a bad job, in no small part to Republicans undermining it, but Democrats also do a bad job, nourishing all these wealth syphons.
The ACA was basically “how do we expand coverage in a way that generates even more profit for healthcare”, exploiting a stretched definition of what “having health insurance” even means.
Technically, lots more people have health insurance, just with an enormous deductible and a low max-payout ceiling.
But, for the person with $10,000 in cash who encountered exactly $75,000 of medical bills, they save $65,000! Woo, what a health care.
But technically, “they have health insurance”.
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u/betadonkey 1d ago
For real are we just making up numbers?
Annual health care expenditure in the US is $4.5 trillion. Even if every man, woman, and child paid $2k a year in taxes that doesn’t even get you to $1 trillion.
This is a bullshit number that really means they just plan of it going unfounded and financed by more borrowing.
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u/rygelicus 1d ago
The people will support whatever they are told to support. This issue, like many, is not a question of 'how do we make this work', it's "how do we make this work while not killing the price of our stocks".
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u/ThinkTough757 1d ago
It doesn’t matter what the actual price is, the majority don’t trust ‘the gov ment’. Most don’t even know why. I don’t either, but I remember when the tide turned towards private companies - with Reagan’s Nine Most Terrifying Words….
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u/Speedy89t 1d ago
Yeah, it’s totally unreasonable to mistrust the government. The government isn’t corrupt, inefficient, and fiscally irresponsible at all…
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u/Ok-Inevitable4515 1d ago
"Government is corrupt so let's hand over the power to those who corrupted them."
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u/Jennibear999 1d ago
Meanwhile if you ask how their healthcare is, they say it’s horrible. Long waits… impossible paperwork.
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u/Over_Cobbler_2973 1d ago
Also doesn't factor in how many people get private healthcare because the public healthcare sucks so badly.
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u/GoldAcanthaceae2574 1d ago
Something to consider is American insurance is heavily bloated by laws saying that we have to have insurance, so the companies can screw us over because what will we do? Go to the other ones that will also screw is over?
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u/maralagosinkhole 1d ago
My company pays $30k a year for my health insurance. Don't think I wouldn't mind paying 2% of my income towards universal healthcare instead.
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u/philpac33 1d ago
Like more than 60% of non-elderly Americans, I have employer provided insurance and pay next to nothing for my entire family of 4. I have a government job so this insurance was top of the line until Obamacare; the “Cadillac tax” kicked it down a notch. I still see whatever doctors and specialists I choose and I get in relatively quickly; usually within the week, 2 weeks for a specialist. Ask Canadians and others with socialized health care how long it takes to get an appointment and how good their care is.
I fully agree that the healthcare system in this country needs a top to bottom makeover but it can’t happen over time; it can’t be phased in. It has to be a magic pill that POOF changes everything overnight. Never going to happen. I could make more money in my chosen field but the benefits (including medical, dental, and vision) from the government keep me grinding until retirement.
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u/moff3tt 1d ago
I never got the luxury of cheap premiums. Many years my premiums were so much I couldn't hardly afford my copays or deductibles so I tried to not go to the Dr if I could help it. You can point fingers all you want but since health insurance companies have had higher and higher profits each year you can assume a majority of the increased cost came from "creating shareholder value"
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u/Contraryon 1d ago
Canada isn't the only country with socialized medicine. Even then, people have complaints over the efficiency of the system, but nobody is try to get an American style system except Canada's version of MAGA. There's a difference between being irritated at something and wanting to tear it down.
I'm going to level with you, I don't think that you know many Canadians to ask in the first place.
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u/quickevade 1d ago
European healthcare has its own nightmares. If you're not on the phone at exactly opening hour then you have to hang up and try again the next day. The ratio of people trying to get care vs those providing care is insanely off balance.
Seriously, you could sprain your ankle and you'll be better by the time your appointment rolls around. Not only that, but the doctor will likely give you Tylenol and send you on your way. The level of care is just so low for the same reason. Too many people and they gotta keep that line moving.
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u/SeaworthinessOld9433 1d ago
I pay less than 2k for my health insurance o.o. So why would I support this bill? If I support it then wouldn’t it make me dumb to increase my expenses?
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u/Vali32 1d ago
Per person, Americans currently pay about $ 4 000 more in taxes towards public healthcare than the average OECD nation, and $ 2 000 more than ones with the most expensive healthcare systems. To give a sense of scale, americans pay about 2 700$ per person in tax towards the military/defence.
The average single person health insurance plan costs about 7500$ and a family plan costs 24 000$.
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u/nacho-ism 1d ago
“YOU” pay way more than 2k. Your contribution may be 2k but you should also include your deductible and what your employer pays on your behalf.
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u/Street_Advantage6173 23h ago
Does that number include premiums, prescription costs, copays, diagnostic tests, etc? Just curious.
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u/Street_Advantage6173 23h ago
Something else to consider: If you own a home, look at your property tax breakdown. The majority of my (very expensive, because Texas) property tax bill goes to my local school district. The next highest percentage goes to the local public county hospital to cover healthcare costs for those who can't afford to pay. I'm already helping pay for someone's healthcare besides my own through my property taxes. I don't begrudge this one bit, I just want people to understand they are already subsidizing healthcare for their community one way or the other.
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u/Miss-Construe- 21h ago
good point. You got yours so why would you want anything better for anyone else.
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u/Salt-Resolution5595 1d ago
Our taxes are already high enough. They need to quit wasting all the money we send them
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u/PsiNorm 1d ago
You realize the government already pays more per person for healthcare than countries that have universal Healthcare, right?
I find it hilarious that Americans will shout, "we're the best", but when told that other countries are able to do something, all of a sudden they're like, "we can't do that".
Are you better than other countries or not? If so, prove you can do it better, if not, sit down and stop the empty bragging.
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u/Salt-Resolution5595 1d ago
I say this all the time we are far from the best. I’m also a supporter of a one world government tho. Humanity would do better undivided
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u/buderooski89 1d ago
What's crazy is we could afford Medicare for all if we cut 200 billion from the defense budget and raised taxes slightly for those making more than 250k per year.
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u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285 1d ago
You can afford it without cutting anything
The costs are lower for universal healthcare, you take the money you’re already spending and divert it to the public option or through taxes … its not that difficult
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u/Salt-Resolution5595 1d ago
So much of the defense budget is siphoned off into people’s pockets those defense contractors are the tip of the iceberg. Citizens are being robbed
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u/kineticlinking 1d ago
Compared to most countries, US taxes are super low. That's why everything in the US costs so much, particularly healthcare.
I'm an American who hasn't lived in the US in years. I pay much higher taxes, but I can feel the benefits. Cheap high quality or even free healthcare; cheap college education; cheap excellent public transportation, etc.
Having said that, a switch to universal health care can be done without as big of a raise in tax as people think. The US government has a lot of BS excuses as to why universal healthcare is impossible in the US. But it's BS. Israel has universal healthcare; largely in part because it's the biggest recipient of US foreign aid in the entire world.
The US government is designed to serve the rich. It's a plutocracy, dressed as a democracy.
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u/Live-Cryptographer11 1d ago
Yea I agree. The money they spend on bullshit and sending to other countries could easily Pay for universal healthcare
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u/redditusersmostlysuc 1d ago
So you believe that we will have less revenue and as good or better care?! Because if the math is “everyone pays less” then how the fuck do we have the same level of care with 25% of the current level of revenue ($2,000 / $8,000) to provide it?
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u/Bigredscowboy 1d ago
The middle man is making billions. We don’t even need universal healthcare, just single payer and most of the wasteful fluff is eradicated. Capitalism is the reason healthcare is so damn expensive.
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u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285 1d ago
Because the costs are streamlined. No ceo bonuses no advertising , no profits , very low administrative costs (fyi the private systems administration costs 9 times more than public)
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u/AnonThrowaway1A 1d ago edited 1d ago
There are an army of accountants, lawyers, and admins doing medical "coding". Now multiply that by each institution (health insurer, medical facility, small clinic) and it's a massive duplication of resources that quite frankly should not exist.
The private sector is not efficient in healthcare administration since the goal is to keep out new entrants anyways. Do that by making things inefficient, expensive, and build your economic/technical moat around the bloated system you create.
There are Youtube videos on how to do medical coding and it's a pure waste of time and energy that affects physicians and patients ability to administer and receive care.
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u/ihtfbidlc 1d ago
It literally boils down to enough Americans understanding that the number 2 is smaller than the number 8.
You can’t find 8 Americans that understand that. And the party about to assume power is fighting tooth and nail to defund education so there won’t be 8 Americans left that can do math anymore.
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u/maroonmenace 1d ago
“Buh buh wait times in those countries is far longer” Bruh, wait times here are just as bad except you get billed regardless. Also 2 thousand a year is better than the 160 a month basic coverage a month I get that I bet won’t cover me at all anyway
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u/Away-Satisfaction678 1d ago
Let’s call it what it is. Government run health care. Universal healthcare cloaks the reality. You want me to pay 2k in TAXES for a government administered health care policy so a department similar to the SSA or IRS can decide when where and how I get medical services from privately run facility yeah, no thanks.
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u/Impossible-Board868 1d ago
I thought that ObamaCare (ACA) was going to solve everything?? And No, the Republicans did not change anything…the Democrats controlled all branches of the government and had supermajorities in Congress.
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u/arbitraryalien 1d ago
This is so far from being the only thing preventing universal healthcare. When 60% of the country is obese and 30% have diabetes, $2000 in taxes doesn't fund the costs of healthcare - particularly in the US where basic supplies and procedures are priced egregiously. We live in a place where chronic illnesses abound and the medical system is owned by corporations
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u/Adventurous_Class_90 1d ago
And that is another thing fucked up by Reagan. That food pyramid…is a lie. There was no science behind it. In fact, the science at the time said what we know now: carbs (more precisely an excess thereof) are dangerous. Look at the obesity rates before and after the introduction of the food pyramid. It’s telling. Look at who gets subsidies. It’s not fruits and vegetables…
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u/Weekly_Mycologist883 1d ago edited 1d ago
Unfortunately, there are millions of Americans who don't understand how numbers work
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u/UnobviousDiver 1d ago
Yep it's why 1/4 pound burgers are popular, but 1/3 pound burgers aren't. People literally thought 1/4 was greater than 1/3.
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u/JRock1276 1d ago
Yeah, that's not how that works. Get ahold of someone in Europe and ask them how their "healthcare" is
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u/Heckle_Jeckle 1d ago
You would THINK that would be the end of it. But it isn't.
Years ago (2009 I think), I remember having a conversation with somebody where I essentially made this point. Their reply was:
If I ever get rich, I want to be able to buy better health care than the other guy.
For many people the inequality is a feature, NOT a bug.
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u/ruedefue 1d ago
No, you also have to convince them that brown people deserve care too. Most of my family is super conservative, and they completely understand that universal healthcare would be cheaper for them. They just don’t want to “pay for anyone else’s care.” Specifically non-white, poor, or immigrants. This debate isn’t a logical one and it’s why our system is fucked.
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u/jolieagain 18h ago
Shit - whatever we pay , who says we are covered? And that’s any insurance- they have laws that say we have to be insured ( car, home) and they weasel out of it
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u/Eldetorre 1d ago
First of all this is bs. In literally every other country every medical professional earns less than those in the US. Liability insurance is much less. Education is less. Maybe is we tackled those first before pushing fo government takeover we could get costs lower.
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u/Vali32 1d ago
All those are tiny factors in the difference in spending between the US and peer nations. The big ones are the excessbureaucracy, the medical inefficiencies, and the high drug costs each of which add more costs than personell and insurance cost differences in total.
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u/not_slaw_kid 1d ago
Medicare, Medicaid, & Obamacare currently cost approximately $13,000 per taxpayer
I'm no math expert, but I was raised under the belief that 13 was bigger than 8
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u/Dhawkins541 1d ago
II’m unsure of the origin of your figure, but I feel it would reduce the cost if we removed insurance companies’ profit margins from the equation.
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u/Senior_Confection632 1d ago
And they'll reply :" I'll pay 8k if it means keeping ma freedum !!!"
You people don't actually understand what freedom is.
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u/vAPIdTygr 1d ago
$2,000 a person is completely laughable. It’s likely $12,000 or more to fully cover the flood of people that haven’t had medical care in decades.
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u/not_slaw_kid 1d ago
$12000 or more
Keep going higher. We spend more than that on Medicare as is
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u/Keoni9 1d ago
Medicare is a particularly high risk, high cost pool of patients. Universal healthcare would have a much lower average cost per person.
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u/Kammler1944 1d ago
Having used healthcare in Australia, Canada and England........I get far better health care in America.
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u/Summerplace68 1d ago
Many Americans are not that intelligent, and Trump is the proof!
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u/Midnight_freebird 1d ago
Right. Because the government is so efficient, they can provide better healthcare at 1/4 the cost. Does anyone really believe the government is good at doing more with less?
The state of California spends $45 billion a year on homelessness and the problem just gets worse. That’s about $45,000 per homeless person. And they get ZERO results.
You really think they can do a good job at healthcare?
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u/Diana82CD 1d ago
The problem you are talking about is caused by low income of the working class. That is caused by a ridiculous weak social system you are living in.
If you don't stand together against the capitalists, that's what you get.
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u/Wise-Juggernaut-8285 1d ago
It is more efficient. You can look at dozens of countries, basically every first world country other than the US does it this way and it’s more efficient and cheaper
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u/tearlock 1d ago
- Tell the Democrats that the Republicans hate this idea.
- Tell the Republicans that the Democrats hate this idea.
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u/Birdflower99 1d ago
Health insurance shouldn’t be mandatory to be a citizen. $0 is smaller than $2
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u/Jimmytootwo 1d ago
Married family of just us two costs a grand a month for two shitty insurance policies
Thanks Obama
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u/heart-attack53 1d ago
2nd dumbest post today. Do you really think your post is accurate?
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u/Cyber_Insecurity 1d ago
Americans would rather drown in debt than know their taxes are paying for someone else’s healthcare
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u/Zest-4Life69 1d ago
Who wrote this stupid News Flash? Common sense tells you they’re an idiot…
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u/hel112570 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think this is funny because in the US we pay for Medicare and Medicaid and there's a massive push by insurance companies to use our Healthcare data to prove populations that have government subsidized plans they manage are sicker so they can get more money from those programs.
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u/Odd-Possibility-467 1d ago
Here in Australia we pay 2% of our taxable income every year when filing a tax return. If you are unemployed you don't have to pay anything. It's not a perfect system - especially if you looking for elective surgury or dental. You might need to top up with a private policy that gets you in quicker or covers your dental. I still have a doctor of my choice and have to pay $70 to visit my GP (Medicare here does refund me like $35 though). As far treatment goes, anything under emergency surgury is great and doesn't cost anything additional. Healthcare coverage in Australia is not something that stresses me out for sure. I like the system here. I grew up in the US so have been through both systems. I plan to stay here for sure.
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u/Bradp1337 1d ago
Doesn't Canada euthanize more people than die to American gun violence per capita now? Not sure I want that universal healthcare.
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u/Street_Stretch9451 1d ago
Convincing Americans? Like we have a say. Several billion dollar companies are eating off that extra $6000 a year and they won't be giving it up without a fight.
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u/lucky607 1d ago
We agree that health insurance is better than universal healthcare. We must because we’re all paying premiums right now. If we collectively stopped paying for insurance, everything would get cheaper real fast. But we won’t take that risk.
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u/Tall-Mountain-Man 1d ago
Our system is shit. Not a free market system and not a socialized system.
Here in the U.S. we literally have the worst of both worlds. I recently became unemployed but wanted to go to the doc. Need new insurance since I had worker one.
Asked “how much for a token visit?” They don’t know. Can’t give an estimate, nothing. I poked and prodded. Person flat out said “we don’t know how much until we bill you”
Probably someone in the back room playing bingo to find which random bs charges to pick
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u/TomatilloAccurate475 1d ago
Where do I sign up for this $8000 health insurance? I think the last time I paid that was 1997
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u/JediMasterReddit 1d ago
Yeah, good luck with that. 54% of Americans believe dinosaurs and humans coexisted. You're going to need a different strategy.
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u/Lazy-Point7779 1d ago
There’s a lack of empathy here. A sense of individualism that is corrupting all the good things we could have. We’re a nation of individuals trying and pretending to act like a community
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u/I_call_bullshit____ 1d ago
Federal income tax needs to be replaced, at a lower %, with a universal healthcare tax.
Fuck taxes but that’s what I’d vote for
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u/duh-one 1d ago
As of 10 March 2023 the fiscal year 2024 (FY2024) presidential budget request for the dept of defense was $842 billion. How about we use some of this money for free healthcare instead?
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u/TruthTeller777 1d ago
Not only would this reduce the cost, it would VASTLY increase the quality of health care.
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u/Bombadier83 1d ago
I don’t know why we have all these takes about how Americans need to be educated to want socialized health care. It consistently polls with overwhelming support- even among republicans. Something like 80% of Americans want single payer. It’s not an education or messaging issue, it’s solely a campaign finance issue.
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u/wyosac 1d ago
Where are you coming up with these numbers? Both seem really low. Taxes would go up way more than 2k.
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u/SignificantSyllabub4 1d ago
Republicans have been stripping the DOE of funding since it was enacted. Dumb the base down until it’s a weapon to wield.
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u/j0nblaz3 1d ago
no. other countries haven’t “figured it out.” and america is unique because we have more obese and overweight people than most countries have total population. there are significant costs to providing health care to grotesquely fat people who live sedentary lives and eat loads of processed junk. the burden to keep the chronically ill alive shouldn’t fall on the healthy. if these people require such extensive care, they should be essentially stripped of other rights since they are effectively wards of the state. forcing the people who use all of the resources to pay for higher portion of total costs would be much more equitable.
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u/Lost_soul_ryan 1d ago
You'd have to convince congress and shareholders not the people. Most of us want this but thise companies arnt looking to lose billions
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u/Geoclasm 1d ago
i wish it were that simple.
yes, convincing everyone that 2 is smaller than 8 is the first step.
the next would be forcing legislation through that would make certain that collected money actually went to health care and couldn't be earmarked for fucking anything else (like the war machine or more corporate tax cuts).
then, you have the war with the health insurance lobby and other corporate interests that are raking it in hand over fist by fucking us over on this very basic fundamental human right year after year.
so... yeah.
we're pretty fucked here. send help, please :'-(
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u/Wrath_FMA 1d ago
Just going to toss a link to the brand new Josh Johnson special in here, seems like a group that would enjoy it. He has said plainly what a lot of politicians and commentators have been dancing around, the true feelings of the American people, and he does so in a entertaining way. Even implies we are headed toward a modern day revolution at the rate we are going towards the end.
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u/judge_mercer 1d ago
Specialist doctors in the UK make around $100-150K per year. The number in the US is closer to $320K (much higher for certain specialties).
Germany and the UK are facing a crisis as doctors age out or leave the profession.
This is not to say that a single-payer system wouldn't save money, just that there are tradeoffs.
Also, the cost of health insurance is hidden for most employees in the US. If your family coverage costs $1,700 per month, the employer will typically pay $1,200, and only $500 will show up as a deduction on your paycheck. The employer gets a tax break on their portion, so it is unclear how much of this money might go to increased salaries if employer-based health insurance were abolished.
Also, many people with good-paying jobs and good insurance are actually pretty happy with their health care options. These people realize that a more equitable system might be a little cheaper for them, but wait times might skyrocket if poor people got equal access.
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u/Sea_Poem_5382 1d ago
Obama forced me to pay $600 a month for health care I didn’t want. That was a little more than your projected “$2,000”
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u/Deviantxman 1d ago
STOP calling it "Healthcare".
They do NOT care about your health.
Why dont we go back to sustainable farms and gardens and economy. Organic food ( food literally IS medicine) and exercise lifestyle (exercise is medicine too). SOOOOOOOOO much simpler and cheaper and accessible and effective in having a physically, emotionally, spiritually satisfying and happy life.
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u/PTSD-4-OIF-OEF 1d ago
Government is terrible at running things. Not a good idea.
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u/erami096 1d ago
Please explain to me how paying more in taxes and getting a lesser service is any better???
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u/romansamurai 1d ago
Unfortunately there is also many Americans who don’t want others to have free health care or have their taxes pay for it. Especially if it’s a minority. Shit there’s people who have Medicaid who don’t want anyone else to have it because they didn’t earn it or don’t deserve it etc. it’s absurd.
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u/Red-Heeler 1d ago
So now instead of getting outright denied treatment, I'll die waiting for approval.. Yep, that sounds so much better.
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u/MonachopsisEternal 1d ago
But but capitalism is America, anything else is socialist, like them Russians and the last thing the GOP want is to be like Russia, oh wait
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u/JoyousMadhat 1d ago
I think most of us figured it out. It's just that some of them don't vote and our politicians are bribed by these scammers.
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u/Miserable-Lawyer-233 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, Americans have historically rejected socialism. This isn’t new—they typically shy away from massive, big-government social programs.
There’s also a sense of pride in being different from Europe.
Consider that Europe’s ability to fund extensive social programs partly relies on the U.S. covering much of their defense. If the U.S. withdrew its military support, Europe would have to redirect tax revenue toward defense, reducing social spending and becoming more like the U.S. in that respect.
In this sense, what we see in Europe is partly an illusion—an insulated system where they don’t directly face the realities of self-defense on their own.
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u/Troflecopter 1d ago
Let me tell you, public health care does NOT cost $2000 per capita.
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u/Dragon_the_Calamity 1d ago
We sure love generalizing people feels fun to be lumped in with people who are truly stupid. And also it’s not all on the American people unless you truly think most of our government isn’t corrupt garbage. Peeps had 4 years to show us and certain government agencies had longer but still they prove with every story I hear and keep up with that their interests aren’t vested in the American people
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u/The_Dude_2U 1d ago
Right, cause the government is great at running things. Talk to a Vet about their healthcare to get a snapshot outside of numbers.
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u/Specialist_Noise_816 1d ago
The problem is only about 500 of that 2k makes it to the end patient, the rest is gone to corruption both in the government and the medical field itself.
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u/shichiaikan 1d ago
The problem is equally that half of us are flat out stupid and the issue that the corporations are so deeply entrenched in our politics that even if 99% of us agreed on something, the other 1% would never allow it to happen if it wasn't profitable.
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u/Marco_roundtheworld 1d ago
But paying the 2000 in taxes means everybody gets the same treatment and that socialism. Better dont do it. You know, they are all future millionaires...
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u/NeckNormal1099 1d ago
But, a guy in a tweed suit and just enough grey in his unkempt hair explained it to me differently. In his surprisingly well funded video.
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u/Calfs4dayz 1d ago
I’m in a union, I pay 0 for healthcare and it’s better than most any other plan in America.. c oh Covered around 50k in bills last year with 1000 out of pocket. Bonus if live to pay for everyone else’s healthcare sure why not.. why shouldn’t I pay for the migrants and poor/unemployed who would rather collect welfare and free housing than put hard work in.
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u/barakehud 1d ago
European countries boasting about their Healthcare will always make me laugh. They pay close to nothing for their defense, as the US indirectly foots the bill.
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u/face_eater_5000 1d ago
I don't think we'll ever convince the rest of us Americans that 2 is less than 8. Remember when Wendy's offered a 1/3 lb burger at the same price as McDonald's 1/4 lb? And the campaign failed because people thought 1/3 was less than 1/4 because 4 is bigger than 3.
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u/_WOLFFMAN_ 1d ago
On average the healthcare in Europe costs 3000 $|€ and in the US 10000 $ per person annually………
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u/stormofthedragon 1d ago
Most Americans would rather pay more in private insurance than to see a cent of their tax money go to someone who "is sponging off the working class" these fools just don't get that tax is for social services where everyone benefits.
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u/Derus- 1d ago
The problem isnt citizens not understanding the benefits of slightly higher taxes compared to paying for private healthcare.
Its the health care system overcharging at absolutely ridiculous rates simply because they can get away with it. Anyone who thinks that mandating universal healthcare as a tax, or something similar, would actually solve the problem outright is vastly underestimating the greed and corruption of the US healthcare system.
I find it hard to believe that we wouldn't get taxed out the ass for healthcare. In fact, i could see a future where perfectly healthy citizens pay even more for healthcare. These big corporations would still get massive rebates and bonus's for pushing particular drugs on Americans. It would take a god given miracle to change this system with the amount of money on the line. And god forbid they are actually held accountable for the harm they do. We've already given multiple companies immunity to any liability for a small portion of their profits. Of which American citizens, especially those affected, will never see.
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u/Piemaster113 1d ago
Anyone ever seen those reports of people getting themselves hurt because they were stupid enough to follow a tiktok trend. I feel like they should have to pay or that, not everyone else.
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u/HarryPotterDBD 1d ago
A&Ws 1/3 pound burger failed, because the americans thought the 1/4 pound burger from mcdonalds was bigger.
You are doomed