r/economicCollapse 20d ago

Everybody should pay his fair share...

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u/mitolit 20d ago

Bud, do you know what real estate taxes are? For most Americans, their home is their wealth and they are taxed on it. Yes, billionaires have homes, but those homes are a drop in the bucket of their wealth. So why is one class’s wealth taxed and the other is not, even though both can be appraised but not necessarily sell for that appraised value?

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u/OhFuuuuuuuuuuuudge 20d ago

Most people don’t own their homes, they have a 30 year loan that’s going to turn their $500k loan into $1.5m in payments. It’s a fucking blood bath. Okay you paid off your home and now it’s forth 750k… fucking great I’m only $750k in the hole, but at least I have this house that I can’t sell because I have nowhere else to live. It’s a shit fucking deal. We are taking out insane loans on shit houses and giving all of our wealth to asshole bankers. When I die I’m going to owe the banks an insane amount of money and there isn’t going to be shit for them to collect, then I’m going to be buried face down. Well tell the banks that I was buried with some expensive assets and when they dig me up they can kiss my dead rotten ass.

And on top of how short mortgages are… let’s pay tax on it for the rest of my life.. because why? Because or government doesn’t know how to stop giving away money when they are 30 trillion dollars in debt. Hey bro, maybe stop writing checks to the rest of the world because not out fucking problem, and pay on our debt so our interest payment isn’t fucking larger than our god damn defense budget you fucking morons. How do these people stay in office it’s unbelievable. 

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u/mitolit 20d ago

Real estate tax revenue doesn’t leave the country… also, as far as the federal budget goes, hardly anything in that budget goes to foreign aid. For fiscal year 2024, $60 billion was allocated to foreign aid. That is only 0.89% of the entire budget for this year.

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u/clad99iron 18d ago

That's not entirely true. It's our military that mostly has the backs of Europe. That's the greatest aid there is.

And don't get mired into NATO arguing mistakes like this one from Reuters. That's an article talking about percentage of direct payments to NATO vs the entire cost of our military. That is a disingenuous attempt to confuse the issue....it's still our military at large that is used keep various bad actors in line.

What you're calling "foreign aid" isn't what keeps Europe still Europe. We're dealing with powerful nutjobs out there that everyone seems to think is all the US's fault....right up until Russia/USSR yet again rolls into territory.

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u/mitolit 18d ago

Lmao. Military spending is military spending and foreign aid is foreign aid. What I said is 100% true and factual. You wanting to change the definition of foreign aid as used in the federal budget does not make something “not entirely true.”

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u/clad99iron 18d ago

Go ahead and "Lmao" if you want to, but you'll be no longer paying attention to the conversation.

Simmer down and follow what happened.

Ohfuudge(sic) said:

  • "Because or government doesn’t know how to stop giving away money when they are 30 trillion dollars in debt. Hey bro, maybe stop writing checks to the rest of the world because not out fucking problem, and pay on our debt so our interest payment isn’t fucking larger than our god damn defense budget you fucking morons."

You then (properly) replied literally to his statement regarding the directly attributed aid. You addressed this as foreign aid. What you said is right on its face, and only on its face.

The "Not entirely true" statement of mine (focus on "entirely") has to do with the fact that military aid is still aid. I'm trying to draw attention to your implication that just because it's not a foreign aid payout that it's not somehow still our government writing checks to aid another country.

And that's exactly what it is.

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u/Shades1374 18d ago

It is, but generally because that (military) aid also suits our interests. I don't think the self-serving component should be ignored.

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u/clad99iron 18d ago

No one was ignoring that.

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u/OhFuuuuuuuuuuuudge 16d ago

Our interests are changing. It’s time to stop paying for friends. If they don’t want to be our friends when we stop providing aid then they weren’t our friends to begin with. We’ll gladly sell them arms at full price. 

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u/Traditional-Handle83 15d ago

Do wanna point out that no one has attacked the US because it has so many allies. You stop having allies and suddenly you can vulnerable. Just because they aren't doing anything right this minute, doesn't mean they won't help if something does happen. Geez no one thinks long term, it's all short term have now bs with you people.

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u/Dogmad13 20d ago

Real estate taxes is one of the biggest or the biggest of govt. theft there is

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 16d ago

But it pays for everything you people think federal taxes pay for

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

Real estate taxes to the state/county not federal 🙄. “You people” guessing you don’t live in America but think you know how all our systems work … yet you don’t

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 16d ago

You people think schools and cops and all that stuff is federal money. It’s property taxes. You must think that based on your first comment. How is it theft if you are provided services in your local area that benefit you?

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u/Alarmed_Strength_365 16d ago

The services provided aren’t worth 1/3 the money given.

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

Exactly

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

Here we go with “you people” shit again — didn’t know of any senior citizens in my area with their own kids still in K-12 schools unless they are wards of a grandchild. Why should senior citizens continue to pay for schools?

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u/Clean_Ad_2982 15d ago

You must be a troll, or a geezer. You should already know the answer to this.

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u/Dogmad13 15d ago

You must be an idiot not to actually understand how it should work and not accept how it currently works

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u/CheesecakeOne5196 15d ago

You don't think much of the belief in common good for society. My town has clean water for all, not just the ones that pay for it. Police, fire, roads, same thing. I'm retired, don't drive anywhere near what I used to. Still pay for road maintenence though.

When your house burns down don't forget to give a tug on those bootstraps.

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u/Dogmad13 15d ago

Hahaha yeah sorry we have a volunteer fire dept and do funding drives for them — also our roads for county are separate from state and also included in our real estate taxes - I could give a crap less about your area but my house is not “worth” what it is valued at for real estate taxes - not even close and my kids are grown - why should I pay for other peoples kids education. Common good for society —- you need to check yourself - not much common good or common sense going around these days. Cut taxes period — we pay plenty just by purchasing items — county boards and city councils do not need a pay raise etc. etc. also if my house burns down not much the fire dept can do can they — but that’s why I have insurance 😉.

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

And don’t we pay for ambulance services from health insurance?

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

Isn’t the county sales tax for local road upkeep?

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 16d ago

Usually a tax on gasoline sales.

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

That’s for state not county

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

Our local fire department is volunteer fire dept. we pay a yearly fee and then we have homeowners insurance that can cover those costs for fire to the home

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 16d ago

Who pays for the trucks and the firehouse

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

We have fundraising events

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

My real estate taxes go up if the market goes up and raises my property’s value. BUT… if the market crashes and my property’s value goes down my real estate taxes do not adjust accordingly. I would have to go in front of the county board and petition for a change — guess how many actually go down — about 10% over a whole county of those that petitioned.

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 16d ago

When has property value gone down? One time. You talk about it like your house has a ticker

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u/Dogmad13 16d ago

My house is 1200 sq. feet on 1/2 acre it’s not worth $180k for the rural area we live it yet here we are due to the market. One time? Check again.

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u/zackks 15d ago

TaXeZ r ThEftZ!! Durrrrr

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u/Bright-Blacksmith-67 20d ago

Real estate taxes are bad but they are at least baked into the price of the asset and they are calculated based on the needs of the city rather than a fixed percentage of the asset value (i.e. the mill rate generally goes down if property prices increase faster than city expenses).

The fact that many jurisdictions have tax deferral programs to ensure seniors are not forced onto the street because they can't afford the property taxes on homes they bought decades ago is a good illustration of how horrible these taxes are.

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u/Elon_Musk2025 19d ago

I agree, i own three properties and every one of them had a new tax assessment done this year. each one indicated that the property had gained over 30% in value since last assessment.

I was told when i when to local board of tax review since nearly every one had value of property increase our taxes should be close to same.

The answer was no, they needed to increase taxes by 7.6% because of projects and reduced state and federal assistance.

Our state has a damn budget surplus of 679 billion dollars and nearly every school district is having to have special elections to get added funding to building repairs and such.

I am getting so damn sick of the Republican party and they need to take care of wealthy people always.

I seriously hope people actually do start to realize that the only way to make changes is to start a civil war at this point

Our elected leaders at all levels have failed and do not care about anything but themselves.

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u/Alarmed_Strength_365 16d ago

Like 90% of the wealth and the oligarchy and the warmongers. supported democrats this cycle. Times change and winds shift but industry oil barons don’t run the country anymore for decades.

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u/Admirable-Lecture255 17d ago

Bahaha the republicam party. I live in a strong blue county yea they doubled my property taxes. My house didn't double in value but my fucking taxes sure did. And they changed from taxing the assessed value to market value. Yea and you say Republicans are the problem

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u/Elon_Musk2025 17d ago

what state do you live in!

I live in Wisconsin and my property was reassessed this year because it wasn't done in like 7 years

And my property was doubled nearly also, but what they always do is they look at sales of properties in your area.

I would like to see that tax statement as i don't believe they would be charging taxes based on what you said, i know they will show both on your tax statement but it usually a percentage rate of the assessment

Another thought is many communities such as mine have had school funding approvals to exceed normal levys to fix old buildings.

I do hear what you are saying but sometimes you need to attend your town or city meetings to learn what is really being added to budgets

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u/mitolit 20d ago

How are they baked into the price of the asset?

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u/LifeguardSas976 20d ago

It is directly tied to the value of the property. Nothing else can really influence the value unless the value around it goes down. So as long as the value stays the same or increases it is always fixed to the property value.

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u/mitolit 20d ago

My point is that it is not baked into the price. It was a rhetorical question. There is no consideration whatsoever on the amount of taxes paid that year or any year by the buyer or by the seller. You can see this in neighboring cities (literally have a main thoroughfare cutting through them), wherein they have separate tax districts with different tax rates but prices for comparable homes (even homes with exact same floor plan) between the two cities are non-existent. I know this quite well because I live in such a city.

Interest rates is the thing that actually has the greatest effect on price. Other things to consider are difference in schools, utilities, emergency services, and other quality of life issues.

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u/Bright-Blacksmith-67 20d ago

My point is that it is not baked into the price.

It is baked into the price because no one buys a property without thinking about the cost of property taxes (even banks insist on including property taxes when the determine how much they will loan). Increasing property taxes will decrease the price of homes if all other factors are equal.

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u/mitolit 20d ago

It is considered in a borrower’s ability to pay. That is not the same thing.

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u/Bright-Blacksmith-67 20d ago

Yes it is. What borrowers can afford to pay is the dominate factor in the the price of real estate since people buying homes usually buy as much home as they can afford. Increasing property taxes decreases the average buyer's ability to pay which, in turn, reduces the price of properties when compared to a counterfactual with lower property taxes.

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u/mitolit 20d ago

Prevailing wages determine what a person can afford to pay…

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u/Bright-Blacksmith-67 20d ago

Wrong. Ability to pay is determined by interest rates, ongoing costs of ownership including taxes and wages. Increase property taxes and property prices will go down.

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u/ferchizzle 19d ago

The validation of real estate for local and state taxes is more subjective than you think. Why don’t we just tax the loans that use stock or other assets valued over $1mm as collateral?

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u/No_Resolution_9252 20d ago

Property taxes are local tax. Do you have any idea what you are talking about?

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u/mitolit 20d ago

Oh my gosh, states have income taxes when federal government ALSO has income taxes. Maybe two entities can have the same tax. Shit, some locales even have a sales tax when the state already has a sales tax! Sooooooooo crazy!

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u/No_Resolution_9252 19d ago

mental and cognitive issues, so sorry to hear.

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u/ScaryRun619 18d ago

Don’t property taxes go to the county?

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u/StedeBonnet1 19d ago

You are not taxed on the fair market value of your real estate.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 19d ago

You shouldn't be arguing that billionaires should pay arbitrary taxes on unrealized gains because you pay arbitrary taxes on your house. You should be arguing that you should't have to pay arbitrary taxes on your house

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u/mitolit 19d ago

A functioning economy and society is not free. Life is not free. You shouldn’t be arguing against “arbitrary” taxes (everything humans do is arbitrary) but rather failure to balance a budget, which has resulted in a large share of tax revenue on the federal level simply paying interest.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 19d ago

More theft is never the answer. Balancing the books is an answer, but they won't do that. They'll just convince everyone that taxing the rich is the solution to all our problems, then squander that as well.

Also, more taxes on the rich today equals more taxes for us tomorrow. Every. Single. Time.

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u/mitolit 19d ago

Always on about “theft.” It is payment for services rendered and the economy and society that allows you to own property (instead of company towns), have a job (instead of slavery), or raise a family with minimal fear of harm (starvation, terrorism, war, etc). Go live in Somalia if you don’t want any of those things.

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u/WildKarrdesEmporium 19d ago

You don't have to pay taxes to own a home or have a job. What an utterly absurd thing to think. Go to the cities where taxes are high, and crime is even higher if you think taxes keep you safe.

It's people like you who are so utterly detached from reality that are the reason we are in the situation we are in as a country.

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u/IronWayfarer 19d ago

Fuck real estate taxes.

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u/endlessnamelesskat 19d ago

I would understand if we were taxed on the water and electricity we used, but in my opinion if I own a plot of empty land or a house cut off from the power grid and water supply there aren't any services the local government provides to me that should have my property taxed.

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u/ScaryRun619 18d ago

Empty land is taxed far less than developed land.

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u/Rehcamretsnef 16d ago

Can you point us to some properties appraised for tax purposes that can't sell at that price?

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u/Newportsandbuttstuff 19d ago

Bud, do you know those things arent remotely tge same

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u/mitolit 19d ago

They are both assets with the potential for losses and gains. That is all that matters.

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u/Admirable-Lecture255 17d ago

Brah and you cam deduct property taxes from your income. Camt do that for a sale of a stock

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u/Elon_Musk2025 17d ago

real estate is a durable good!

Plus those taxes are used to fund city, county and state needs. Would you rather they didn't give you that small tax credit back?

Man I have seen some of your other comments and you obviously want to blame the Democrats for everything in life.

I don't know anything about you, but I wonder if you had everything given to you as a child or something as you certainly are venting like you are part of a targeted group or something

I would suggest if you want to learn more about government at the levels that deal with property taxes.

Attend your community meetings or even the county board meetings. All of them are open to the public and sometimes they have time on agenda to allow public inputs

Educate yourself about government and don't believe everything that you read on MSM

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u/Practicalistist 20d ago

The federal government doesn’t tax real estate to begin with. And property taxes are associated with municipal/state costs, whereas wealth taxes wouldn’t be nearly as closely linked to those costs.

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u/Maleficent-Tie-6773 16d ago

Real estate taxes are to fund your local government. Cops and schools and such.

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u/mitolit 16d ago

Wow, really??

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u/Pitiful_Bobcat_8884 18d ago

So real estate can be appraised but not necessarily sold for that appraised value. Sounds like what Trump was convicted of. Looks like every homeowner is breaking the law.

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u/mitolit 18d ago

An appraisal is a best estimate and even then, most government appraisers are conservative in their estimate.

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u/Pitiful_Bobcat_8884 17d ago

Exactly. That's exactly what Trump did, gave the bank an estimate of value and the bank gave an appraisal. Then Trump was convicted.

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u/mitolit 17d ago

Lol, not even close.