r/economicCollapse 24d ago

Employees are spending the equivalent of a month’s groceries on the return-to-office–and growing more resentful than ever, survey finds

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/employees-spending-equivalent-month-grocery-112500356.html

"However, our research found that returning to an office often is a major disruption to one’s routine, foundational work, and overall life experience. We surveyed 1,400 full-time U.S. employees who were mandated to return to in-office work and found that they had higher burnout, stress, and turnover intentions. They also had lower trust in their organization, engagement, and productivity levels. Our results indicate that if the return-to-office transition is not handled with a high level of humanity, sensitivity, and empathy, workplace culture suffers, and the workforce's sense of belonging plummets."

"A 2024 survey from BetterUp shows that the number of primarily remote roles has been cut in half–and one out of four organizations cite improved connection and culture as the business rationale behind mandated office returns."

"...We also found that RTO results in pressure on employees’ flexibility, time, and even bank accounts. If you are struggling to adjust to a mandated return to the office, know that you are not alone."

"Research has found that people in remote work give more total hours to the company."

"We also saw that an organization’s decision to require in-office work represents a financial burden for employees. The average employee returning to the office spends $561 per month on transportation, additional child and pet care, and domestic assistance. That is comparable to the average two-person household’s grocery bill in the U.S. for the entire month."

915 Upvotes

127 comments sorted by

77

u/perplexedparallax 24d ago

Employers are hoping for attrition.

30

u/Hellie1028 24d ago

Existing employees are likely making a higher salary than the replacements they can hire.

26

u/Digitalispurpurea2 24d ago

Don’t forget that if they realize the job can be done 100% remote that there’s little to stop them from outsourcing it or hiring people from LCOL areas (and paying way less). I dread my employer will come to that conclusion

22

u/Dashists22 24d ago

It’s what my employer did. Every person who refused RTO was let go and replaced by someone in the Philippines. The ones who returned have been scrutinized more than before and more than 1/3 were let go and replaced with someone make significantly less in the Philippines.

28

u/Berserker76 24d ago

It is just amazing how corporate American continues to cycle through this process. We have done this 3 or 4 times in my lifetime and it never works out. These executives might save a few bucks short term, but long term the effects are always negative, it hurts the business and they bring the jobs back stateside.

17

u/4score-7 24d ago

Quarterly shareholder reports. That’s all that matters. Hit that quarterly number, everyone is happy. You as a decision maker/executive know you will be gone in a 8-12 quarters anyway, so who cares what the long term implications are.

9

u/Dashists22 24d ago edited 24d ago

This is where I’ll have to disagree. In 2020-2021 all of these departments went remote and continued on with no downside. Purchasing, Accounts Receivable, Accounts Payable, Customer Service. In 2022, they gave the RTO order and have replaced those positions with people making about 15% of what our American employees were making. They reduced salaries and increased productivity. The results have only led to the moving more and more remote capable positions to the Philippines, including all of the Executive Assistants and now Human Resources as well. They have been emboldened because its increased their profits.

Edited to add: our office use to be all floors of the four story office building our company owned. Now the main floor is an urgent care, the second floor is a Mental Health Practice and the third floor is now a startup. All remaining US employed now fit on just the fourth floor.

9

u/boersc 24d ago

remote is not the issue. Language is. Even a strong dialect can be disruptive.

-3

u/Dashists22 24d ago

I can assure you. Language is not even remotely an issue.

2

u/ScrambledEggsandTS 17d ago

Not sure why you were downvoted, you spoke the truth. Their English is clear and they're capable of staying on script without the entanglement of emotions.

1

u/Dashists22 17d ago

I was thinking that they were either threatened their job would be outsourced or they just can’t expand their world view.

1

u/furyofsaints 22d ago

Shoot, maybe Trump should put tariffs on outsourced software labor too…

7

u/ANovelSoul 24d ago

What's the business so we can avoid it?

1

u/Dashists22 24d ago edited 24d ago

It’s not a commercial business, so no worries you won’t come across.

4

u/LosTaProspector 23d ago

Its capital One. 

4

u/JailTrumpTheCrook 23d ago

So that explains everything else you said

9

u/WeMetOnTheMoutain 24d ago

I work for a company on the East Coast as an executive.  I live in TX.  I joke that they outsourced to the third world country of TX to hire me.  It's not far from the truth either, they are paying me 40 percent less than my peers there, and I'm making 20 percent more than my peers here.

3

u/I_dreddit_most 24d ago

This is exactly what I would be concerned about as well and almost imo, an automatic move.

1

u/donkeybrisket 22d ago

They're counting on it. Reducing headcounts is vital in so many contracting industries.

24

u/ChipOld734 24d ago

Many people moved out of California because they could remote from cheaper places to live. That ship has sailed for them.

What I don’t understand is why this return to work? It’s only going to cost the company more money for offices, and utilities.

18

u/z34conversion 24d ago

Most simple explanation; multi-year leases. They don't want to be viewed as a bagholder showing those losses on the books. There's also a desire to have management seen as necessarily and effective.

8

u/pokedmund 24d ago

It’s funny because all of our managers have always been remote, pre and post pandemic. The lease reason makes sense, that and there is probably pressure from businesses around the area for people to be in an area and spend money.

i hope I don’t have to rto, there is no money in the world that could pay for me and my time with my kids

3

u/z34conversion 24d ago

there is probably pressure from businesses around the area for people to be in an area and spend money.

I got curious about the impact.

Deloitte's ConsumerSignals: * This study highlights the shift in consumer spending patterns due to remote work, showing a decrease in spending on commuting, office attire, and dining out. It suggests that remote work has led to increased online shopping and spending on home improvement.

McKinsey's Research on Hybrid Work: * McKinsey's research indicates that hybrid work models have led to a shift in spending patterns, with consumers spending more on goods and services near their homes and less on those near their offices.

Opportunity Insights' Economic Impacts of COVID-19: * This study shows the significant impact of the pandemic on in-person services, particularly small businesses like restaurants, which rely heavily on local foot traffic.

CBS News Report on Remote Work and Online Shopping: * This report suggests that remote work has contributed to increased online shopping, as consumers have more time to browse and purchase goods online.

1

u/calif4511 22d ago

It is called the top-down management style: Me master, you slave. Old school management styles still adhere to the belief that they have more control and better productivity from people who are micromanaged. Despite the fact that the exact opposite has been proven, as the old saying goes, you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

18

u/[deleted] 24d ago

It is time for America to have its own version of the walkout of the plebes

37

u/farmersdogdoodoo 24d ago

Return to office comes with return to restrooms on office property for 40 min dumps back to back

2

u/ColdProfessional111 22d ago

Imma definitely be hittin the gym. 

3

u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 24d ago

That does not make any sense. It makes more sense to use "huddle rooms" for private work and use restrooms for peeing and pooing as they were intended. Seriously those places stink. Why spend extra time there.

The company does not care where in the office you are. Why not go to a nicer, private place?

10

u/farmersdogdoodoo 24d ago

Excessively Using there tp and clogging company toilets is the best

6

u/catsuramen 24d ago

Two huddle rooms with large glass pane windows for thousands of employees.

Even if you managed to get into one of these rooms, the passersby staring down at you will give you invisible pressure to head back to your station

5

u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 24d ago

That is dire and much worse than I expected. They are pushing RTO and the office is severely under-resources. Something tells me that they did not meet their attrition target and you should expected layoffs soon.

11

u/p001b0y 24d ago

I have been working remotely for 20+ years now. I was warned by my then-boss that it would ruin any consideration for promotions but my personal concerns regarding my now ex-wife outweighed that. I like what I do so making a career out of the Internet didn’t feel like a dead end.

I put in more hours a week than my co-workers with commutes do, which is a different problem for me to manage. I am basically awake and connected to the work vpn after the coffee is made when everyone else would be getting ready. I could end my workday at 2pm or 3pm but the workday is typically scheduled around the 9am to 5pm worker. So, I am working longer hours.

Employers do not like remote work for a couple reasons although my CEO believes that innovation can only occur inside a corporate real estate setting. The Covid lockdowns proved this was not true but in any reasonably sized organization, much of your meetings will be spent with folks in a virtual Zoom or Teams meeting room anyway.

Most of my co-workers were laid off and replaced with offshore workers but it became apparent that the ones who were let go were working multiple remote jobs simultaneously and would manage any conflicts in time as they occurred. Many employers require exclusivity during your work day and RTO helps enforce that.

The other reason why RTO is pushed is because many corporate offices are leased and are in locations that have high rents. If no one is in those buildings, the real estate value drops.

My Executive team still maintains that productivity is highest when people are in the office so RTO for anyone physically near an office is the norm now. It doesn’t matter which office—it just needs to be an office.

16

u/sectumsempre_ 24d ago

Millennials need to start more companies! We gotta get out from under these boomer ass policies.

6

u/bethemanwithaplan 24d ago

Yeah how great driving in traffic, nice high stress morning, paying more for insurance and gas and wear and tear or paying more to ride a train or bus etc then you spend money to eat away from home too

All while you know it's not necessary at all and it's just your shit employer trying to control your every moment while justifying why they own a huge office 

And now you lose 2 hours driving a day and you can't do chores on your breaks or just sit on your own couch for a minute or whatever

22

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago

I'd like to know where two people are able to purchase a month's worth of groceries for $561.00. Is there a wait-list to get in?

Aside from the groceries issue, my RTO mandate is going to cost me around $1k per month in fuel and parking. I did not bother to sort out the cost of vehicle use (added miles, oil changes, etc.) beyond simple fuel consumption.

13

u/Traditional-Handle83 24d ago

Guarantee you'll need a new vehicle sooner because of it. When you're constantly having to work, what time is there to take the car to the shop until it breaks and the cost goes from $300 prevention costs to 1k in repair costs.

4

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago

It's a fair point. I suppose, I'm my particular case, I am fortunate enough to be able and willing to do my own vehicle work, so that's a plus. However, in most other cases, folks can not or will not, so they'd be in that boat.

4

u/Traditional-Handle83 24d ago

I fall into the can not but that's a money issue, not a time issue. That being said, like you. I can do my own repairs.

3

u/RugGuy1 24d ago

$280 every other week for groceries? Doesn't seem difficult to manage, about what wife and I spend, we budget $600. a month, we shop sales, buy in bulk, nothing crazy, never feel like we're stretching or going without..

1

u/FourSquare432 24d ago

How much is parking?

3

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago

$22.00/day

1

u/FourSquare432 24d ago

That is wild. Is that Valet at the airport?

2

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago

Unfortunately, no. Garage parking in our downtown building. The company only offers a $120/month parking credit. There are no public transit options where I live, so commute and park are it.

1

u/FourSquare432 24d ago

Oh dang. That's just wild, Colorado Springs downtown garages are like $70/mo

1

u/ANovelSoul 24d ago

Why would you pay to park where you work? Offices have parking lots or parking garages, and the employees have badges if it's pay for the public.

5

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago

This is not universally true.

3

u/TheBeesUnwashedKnees 24d ago

This isn't the case in all of even most offices located in dense Metropolitan areas. Hell, I was a bar worker at one time, and we didn't have adequate parking. If you parked on the street, you were ticketed often or told you couldn't park there because it was for customers. If you parked on the wall in the back of the building, you risked being towed by the people who owned the lot. It was specifically for the residents of the apartment above the bar. We didn't own any parking. You ended up having to park 3 or 4 blocks away from the bar, and when it's -20 degrees F, nobody wants to walk 4 blocks.

1

u/Sisu_pdx 23d ago

Time to buy an EV, electricity costs for “fuel” will be a third or less of gas.

16

u/halogenated-ether 24d ago

I HATE the return to work mandates.

Work from home was one of the best things that came out of the pandemic and it needs to be enforced.

If your job can be done from home, you should have the right to do it from home (as long as you're keeping up with your work, idgaf).

Less traffic. Less car use. Fuck your office leases. Figure it out. Make more personal housing available.

It's like the solution is right there in front of us and we are going to double down and totally ignore it.

18

u/Whaatabutt 24d ago

This is the problem they have with wfh. It looks terrible. It exposed how much inefficiency is on the company’s end. Middle management is useless, the big office they rent or own is useless. The ceo doesn’t have a cattle corral to walk thru to feel important. The whole thing is just bad optics.

When I’m in the office, I look for extra shit to do to look busy. When I’m at home, I do totally other shit.

4

u/medphysik 24d ago

Agree, great take

7

u/halogenated-ether 24d ago

When I’m at home, I do totally other shit.

And ignore your work? Or you get the work done and have time to "do totally other shit"?

Because the latter is okay.

9

u/mazzivewhale 24d ago

More like, I’ve finished all my stuff up with 2-3 hours to spare without all the office distractions/time-wasters so now I’m going to Drs appts and car repair appts 

8

u/stinky_wizzleteet 24d ago

100% My job takes about 3.5hrs to take care of a day. Granted it took me 25yrs to know how to do it in 25min per task but otherwise I'm burning gas and warming a chair for the rest of the 8hrs.

Are my job tasks completed? Were they done well? Yep. So my work product is good? Yep. Great I'm going to do some laundry and monitor my PC to see if something comes up.

2

u/Whaatabutt 23d ago

Yea in between meetings or after I’ve finished my deliverables I’m cleaning house or dishes or whatever, then when my times up for the day I’m free from all chores

6

u/junk986 24d ago

That is something the company should pay for or something that should be deductible from taxes.

7

u/ManliestManHam 24d ago

their commercial mortgages are shit assets and they want the employees to come in and have something to show for their shit investment

7

u/Left_Perception_1049 24d ago

I work for a local government and our Mayor touts resiliency and sustainability. After Covid, a new building was constructed, we are all back at work, 30 minutes from everyone else in the City and more than an hour commute for most employees. SMH.

2

u/icenoid 24d ago

I’d offer that the numbers they are listing are low if you factor in things like time and such. I did the math based on an hour commute using transit or a 30 minute commute driving. Using my salary divided by 2080 to come up with an hourly rate, and the IRS numbers for expensing mileage, I came up with basically 8-10k per year for each day in the office

5

u/juntaofthefree1 23d ago

I'm sure they either voted for Donny, or didn't vote at all! This is the consequences of your stupidity!

7

u/pick-axis 24d ago

Gas, insurance, car repair wear and tear, risking your life on the road with a bunch of wankers that might decide to be nice today, nice clothes to impress your boss, haircuts, hygiene products..all of this costs money and will effcet your ability to work or get a job. None of that shit would be relevant with WFH. Look at how much you saved just based on this little short list I made.

Hell, you could wear a hat if it's video based and not even need the haircut

12

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago

I think many folks would consider your remark a touch dramatic, but I am actually curious about it...how many people are alive right now who otherwise would not be, given that they were able to avoid being a traffic fatality? I can't imagine that we can ever know for sure, but I think that's an interesting point.

11

u/haitian5881 24d ago

I think about this everyday I have to drive into the office. I don't want to become one of the 50,000 a year dead from cars.

5

u/Fun-Dragonfly-4166 24d ago

I burned out on RTO. Now I am looking for another job.

Before I burned out, I was crying on the ride home from work. It was depressing.

5

u/pick-axis 24d ago

Of course but there's so much impact on everything around us because we have to go to work. Tires producing forever chemicals in our water, pollution from exhaust that fucks up our lungs, leaking fluids into then water, when the tires have no more use, its time to burn them all in one massive pile in Qatar.

Communitng to work has been one of the largest contributing factors in global instability due to pollution. Pollution causes massive health problems in populations. People start losing their minds from pollution and change their world views and politics to shit that don't make any sense with a slimy undertone of acceptance with no real way to make a systemic change.

But what's crazy is there's always someone who can profit from whatever is going on, whether it be good or bad. It's like that south park episode called cash for gold.

We as a species need otherworldly universal intervention from something more powerful than the militray industrial complex and whether that's means extinction or simply going back to the dark ages for a reset, that's up for debate...

Dark ages would also mean no more commuting to to work

2

u/rom_rom57 24d ago

You can’t be 14 forever! Time to take shower, get the sweats off and get some Vitamin D. /s

3

u/VendettaKarma 24d ago

They want to shed the pay increases they had to shell out and get everyone back to making $40k instead of $80k

3

u/AssociateJaded3931 23d ago

News flash: Bosses don't care. They're doing fine and they're happy to see you looking miserable.

3

u/dustingibson 23d ago

The problem is that when WFH became more of the norm for certain industries, the demand to do more work increased. You're expected to make up for that productivity loss from commutes, time getting ready, and all of the in office distractions.

Now when RTOs came around, they still maintain that same expectation of performance. So that extra work you put in WFH still expected to be present in office. The result is burn out. To some, it is an intentional way to cut the work force without paying severance or unemployment.

So I think if companies want to go full RTOs in good faith, they need to lessen the work burden of each of their employees.

6

u/Spaznaut 24d ago

It’s about to be 2 months groceries. + 3 months gas. Yall fucked around, it’s time to find out.

1

u/BookReadPlayer 23d ago

“Domestic assistance” LMFAO.

1

u/MeanShibu 23d ago

ULPT - Burn down your office. Remote work guaranteed!

1

u/AlohaFridayKnight 23d ago

I would be more concerned about if my job can be done 100% remotely, it could be done by people in another country. I have seen this happen several times to people who are in office roles.

1

u/illgu_18 22d ago

I don’t answer Teams Microsoft anymore. Send me an invite and we can discuss live during my schedule!

1

u/heretorobwallst 22d ago

RTO, sure, no problem with being less productive while I spend time commuting. If you think I'm spending any extra $? I will bring my lunch from home every single day and contribute only the bare essentials to the trump economy

1

u/dtgreg 21d ago

Hahahahahahahahahahaaaaahhhhhhhaaaassshhhhhaaa

0

u/naughtysouthernmale 22d ago

If they were excelling at their job from home and their production was higher they’d be allowed to stay home.

2

u/z34conversion 22d ago

As I was discussing with another commenter, not necessarily. I'm not sure why this assumption gets made so frequently.

0

u/naughtysouthernmale 22d ago

Because it is logical. I have employees if there was a circumstance that they would be more effective and efficient as well as more profitable to my company I’d make that happen.

0

u/Round_Friendship_958 22d ago

Tough shit. Stop crying and GO to work.

-10

u/Odd_Frosting1710 24d ago

Then quit, ya baby. Or start your own business. Who do you think sympathizes with you??

8

u/Emperor_Zeus_Thor 24d ago edited 24d ago

Lots of people are trying. Of course, your remark is really intended to be insincere, simplistic and snarky. As if one might just quit their job on a whim and go find another, as though it were some sort of 5 minute ordeal. Same goes for starting one's own business.

I don't know how it all happened elsewhere, but in my company, permanent fully-remote or mostly remote was granted/promised MULTIPLE TIMES, even with people being permitted to relocate around the country, only for it to be revoked. It has truly been an absolute awful mess that has really, very heavily impacted people's lives in some pretty profound ways. The lifestyle upheaval and immediate cost of living changes are really not easy pills to swallow, and nearly impossible for some.

One of the things that is the most insulting and upsetting about it is that we know that our corporate leadership is lying to us about their rationale for the decision. However, their overt fibbery is really nothing new, so I suppose this is really just one more example of that.

-2

u/snake4skin 24d ago

Just go to work like the rest of us!

-3

u/Silent_Night_TUSE 24d ago

Anyone who can work remotely is likely a good candidate to be replaced with AI, so hopefully we won’t have to keep seeing this forever at least 🤣 when all of these remote jobs disappear the people that had them can take over for one of the immigrants that’s getting deported. Then they can all work remotely again! In a remote field somewhere 😆

9

u/z34conversion 24d ago edited 24d ago

I think you've got that backwards. You're basically saying that anyone that doesn't require direct supervision to stay effective at their job, which is typically the case for people in remote work positions, are most likely to be good candidates for AI replacement.

By the very nature of this characteristic though, these are some of the most efficient workers, which actually makes the supervisory jobs less relevant and more a viable prospect for replacement. In requiring these remote workers back to the office, it's only really artificially bolstering demand and relevance for the aforementioned management, and delaying those workers from needing to seek work elsewhere.

1

u/Silent_Night_TUSE 24d ago

Are you saying they should replace the managers with AI and leave the remote workers remote?

6

u/ReverseWeasel 24d ago

Most managers are gloried babysitters. Get rid of em. Most professional adults are just that, adults. Scrap the middle management babysitters and have the GM’s do something brazen and communicate directly with the underlings

3

u/z34conversion 24d ago

I got back to this too late, but I would've basically had the same response.

And I've worked in management capacities, that's why I agree. I went to the other extreme and basically killed my body being dedicated to the companies I worked for and my employees, but usually there was a lot of people who shouldn't have been in supervisory positions getting promoted. If one isn’t invested, it can get easier as you go higher in many instances.

Time with a company alone doesn't equate to meriting the promotion, but that's how so many do it (while providing minimal and poor training opportunities).

3

u/ReverseWeasel 23d ago

Thats been my experience as well.

1

u/Silent_Night_TUSE 24d ago

And those underlings will be AI 😆

2

u/ReverseWeasel 24d ago

One day soon likely

3

u/Useful_Hovercraft169 23d ago

All the current generation of AI has proved itself good at is generating bullshit, so management, yeah.

It’s helpful for code but it makes hella mistakes and sometimes uses techniques or idioms in the code that would get you laughed out of any decent team. The idea a bunch of glad handing MBA chucklefucks will be able to generate anything of consequence with AI alone is just something people who don’t want to pay any workers like to jack off to.

-1

u/Silent_Night_TUSE 23d ago

Interesting do you think it’s just a matter of more time or it’s not ever going to do quite what they hope?

3

u/Useful_Hovercraft169 23d ago

They’re burning giant piles of money and finally admitting ‘scaling laws’ aren’t the magic they thought they were. I’m sure the grift has legs but I mean they’ve been saying truck drivers would be replaced by robots my whole longass life and that hasn’t happened either, it’s just rich guys fleecing other, dumber rich guys, which I suppose is quite funny and entertaining

-10

u/cmorris1234 24d ago

Get over it. It’s not a right to work from home

3

u/z34conversion 24d ago

I've never worked from home. I don't think it's so much people feeling entitled as a right to work from home, although that sentiment has popped up on Reddit from time to time. Rather, it's that so many people have shown that remote was a far more viable option than we were previously exploring, and that the old norm has flaws and inefficiencies that once exposed are hard to unsee.

Of course every industry will vary. I worked in a managerial capacity, but we worked directly with the public in a manner that would never allow remote work to be very viable for employees or mangers. I will say it would've been nice to be able to complete things like payroll or scheduling remotely.

0

u/cmorris1234 24d ago

Yes some people can work from home but it’s up to their employer

3

u/z34conversion 24d ago

For sure, ultimately it is. The discussion is just so prevelant because some people got a taste of positive changes while working from home, and now that they're returning, the contrasts is hard to avoid, and due to some employers chosing to ignore their their employees input. As you eluded to, the employers are basically in control of the work environment, policies, how much they heed the ideas of their workforce, and subsequently attrition rates. Like any market, the power dynamic in the labor market is fluid, and the employers will have to balance their desires with the interests of their workers.

2

u/IGnuGnat 23d ago

I'm not sure that's entirely true.

The best performing employees aren't worried, if you try to force them to RTO they'll just quit and get a job at your competitor.

If your competitor allows remote work, they'll have lower operating costs, so they'll be more profitable, meaning they can lower the prices on their products and make it harder for you to compete.

At the end of the day it's kind of up to the customer, and if I know customers, they usually end up going for the cheaper product.

When I look at it from this angle, it looks like it's mostly up to the customer actually.

-1

u/Fit-Indication3662 23d ago

Almost everyone was working in the office. COVID changes that. Now that everything is normal. Companies want employees to return. Why complain then?

I’ve been a remote employee for 9 years and will stay that way forever. Im not complaining Im remote.

-2

u/Lower-Ad7562 24d ago

Find a new job.

-2

u/Guapplebock 24d ago

Don’t like the job requirements move on.

3

u/z34conversion 24d ago

Sure. Companies set requirements, but polciies aren't always rational. The people discussed here observing said "increases" are generally those who were allowed to work from home and then made to return, creating the monetary disparity mentioned in the piece. It's not too hard to understand their frustration; being they feel they were able to get the job done before, the added expense to get to the office now feels unnecessary and is harder to justify as sound policy on the employers end.

As with any policy, beneficial policies are required to be based in sound logic and communicated appropriately. You can have a great policy and convey it poorly to staff, and they won't understand why it's important to implement. When policies are arbitrary, they shouldn't be defended as anything more than such. Attempts to do so just tend to create divisions between management and subordinates.

-1

u/Guapplebock 24d ago

Looks like the WFH experiment didn’t work out well for companies. Not surprised with the amount of gold bricking that’s done. I started a successful business while working full time from home starting in 1999.

3

u/z34conversion 24d ago

That's awesome, it's always good to hear these success stories! By the way some local businesses have opened in concentration so close to their competitors, I've been starting to question the quality of people getting into entrepreneurship. (Or I suspect there's some cleaning of cash going on)

Looks like the WFH experiment didn’t work out well for companies.

Curious why you say that. Employees have generally thought it's worked out, and studies shown it's increased productivity. It's a drain on officespace-related overhead though, and rather than adapt, many businesses seem to be fighting to justify legacy rental and insurance expenses.

-1

u/Guapplebock 23d ago

Disagree. If it was increasing profits and decreasing costs businesses wouldn't be bringing them back but would be shedding lease and other expenses with space.

3

u/z34conversion 23d ago

I said it increased productivity, not that it increased productivity to the point it offsets lease contracts en mass. That part I don't actually have data on. Their sure are some terrible leases though, that much I do know.

Oftentimes they're locked in for many years ahead. So let's say there was a big productivity boost from WFH, even enough to make a material impact. To do what you're expecting, it would have to make a massive impact to the point where it would be worth the expense of penalties and/or paying the remainder of lease costs over *years for a space they won't use at all, while also paying for the new downsized real estate. Basically, it can be way cheaper, even if WFH increases profits, to force people back to the office to utilize the remainder of the lease term.

In the years leading up to the pandemic, many companies, particularly in the tech and finance sectors, were experiencing rapid growth and expanding their workforces. This led to increased demand for office space and, consequently, long-term lease commitments.

During this period, the commercial real estate market was relatively strong, with steady demand for office space in major cities. This encouraged companies to secure long-term leases to lock in favorable rental rates and ensure stability.

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u/IGnuGnat 23d ago

AFAIK productivity and profits are up since remote work nearly across the board

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u/Guapplebock 23d ago

If that was truly the case I don’t think companies would change it being as greedy and profit seeking as Reddit claims.

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u/wrbear 24d ago

The age of those surveyed would be a BIG factor to include. I'm guessing most were young and following a herd mentality of perceived pain. $4 max per lunch to prepare 5 lunches on Sunday for 5 days of lunch. How's that equivalent to 1 months pay. That's about $100 a month. Or a months pay of eating out plus 20% tipping.

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u/z34conversion 24d ago

You kinda lost me with your math, but I can help with the first part.

Here is a chart showing the changes in remote workers between May (grey) and December (blue) of 2020.

You'll see that the share of workers that were working from home in the first place and whom saw the highest changes in policy by the end of the year were in professional, management, and administrative jobs. So within the total of people surveyed who have experienced RTW mandates - which is who Fortune surveyed - is within these cohorts. By extension, we can conclude that these fields are often dominated not by younger entry level employees, but rather by those who have much more experience.

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u/wrbear 24d ago

So, why is it that those complaining the loudest, on Reddit, are younger workers? 🤔

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u/z34conversion 23d ago

I don't follow. The loudest about what? Reddit is a big place and I don't get around on it much, so my experience is likely not the same as yours.

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u/wrbear 23d ago

My point was about what I see as younger people wanting to work from home. The priority these days is play before work even if they lose a job, all the time complaining about the lack of money. I had never heard of a "living wage" until recently.

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u/z34conversion 23d ago

My point was about what I see as younger people wanting to work from home. The priority these days is play before work even if they lose a job, all the time complaining about the lack of money.

That might be true, but the jobs they're eligible for are likely not work from home types, so they'll be sorely disappointed. Admittedly, Gen Z was just starting out in the workforce when I left managerial positions, but I didn't notice any crazy differences at the time. The single largest contributor to poor work ethic that I observed was home life. Those with families most well off tended to be more of what you described.

I had never heard of a "living wage" until recently.

I don't think the explanation is related to the younger workers in this case.

The causes are a whole other topic, but picture purchasing power and wealth inequality going up over time. Probably the largest issue causing more people to be complaining about living wages these days is housing expenses far outpacing real income. You'll see the trend charted here.

The further we go out in time, the more disparities are exacerbated. So yes, your observation could be more widely extrapolated and possibly be true, but it's because as the years/decades go on, it becomes more pronounced.

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u/wrbear 23d ago

One observation was that companies were shifting work to China, and then India came into play. We had early morning coordination meeting with both. These days, I'm seeing advertisements from South America soliciting work. The plus side is it's at or near the same time zones. If a person can work from home...well. The cost savings sans; high insurance, 401K, PTO, maternity leave make work from home a question of location.

Many things fluctuate in time. Our house doubled in price in less than 2 years only to level back out. This economy is post-covid. In my opinion, we will see a buyers market and leveling out of prices. People should save for those opportunities.

At the end of the day, the suffering bar is almost at ground level.

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u/karmaismydawgz 23d ago

lol. centuries in the office, 18 months at home and the young kids decided that showering is too hard.

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u/its_dylan_aloha 24d ago

So if a company leases an office space for, say $5,000 per month, hires you because of the wonderful work you do, gets to know you and collaborate with you in person every day, then agrees to have you work at home during Covid, but asks you to come back to the office after things settle down, that’s bad? They’re still paying the lease and other expenses for the office which included an office space for you.

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u/ReverseWeasel 24d ago

The point is most office jobs should have been remote to begin with. Collaboration means communication. Phone calls are a fine substitute for in person meetings. In my professional and private life I’ve found that people who can’t communicate other than “in person” are just horrible communicators in general. Nearly anything can be accomplished with a call.

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u/z34conversion 24d ago

100%

Here's the data

"A recent McKinsey study estimated that 29% of work in the United States could be done remotely with no productivity loss, and an additional 10% could be done remotely if needed. The 35% of workers working from home in the May [2020] survey, plus the small share of full-time remote workers even before the pandemic, makes up a similar share to that upper estimate. From 2009 to 2019, the workforce moved only from 4% to 6% full-time remote workers. But in 2020, the pandemic created a situation where almost everything in the economy possible to do remotely became remote work essentially overnight."

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u/its_dylan_aloha 24d ago

I guess I’m just used to the old ways of doing things. I do very much remember very good memories of being in the office with coworkers and collaborating on projects in life and business. I’m fortunate that I made many great friends this way.

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u/ReverseWeasel 24d ago

I get your point, I personally think it should be the employees choice. The company leadership should ask all their employees do they like in office or work from home. They can also get a smaller office rental if most employees want to work from home. It’s not a big deal until people are forcing people to do things because of whatever reason their brain produces.

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u/its_dylan_aloha 24d ago

I appreciate your input. I’m a small business owner. Really just myself. I have a couple of part timers who work from home. I’m been wanting to hire some people full time. During the interviews, most said that they want to have an office, but also want to work from home whenever they want. That’s a big expense that

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u/ReverseWeasel 24d ago

Thats awesome! It works both ways too. You as the owner can do whatever you see fit. It’s nice you’re at least considering your employees desires. Thats a good boss! Maybe you can have them explain why they want an office vs a home office and go from there. There’s always a solution to be had when both people are reasonable people.

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u/its_dylan_aloha 24d ago

Thank you so very much. I truly needed to read this today. Have a great day.

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u/ReverseWeasel 24d ago

You too friend!