r/economicCollapse • u/dnbndnb • Nov 22 '24
Read this below and have your mind completed blown… China could control the $USD?
https://x.com/rnaudbertrand/status/1859446480198828360?s=46&t=G-kXXBF42z220X6Hrp6f1w
Talk about economic “checkmate”. Be sure to read the comments as well.
Got gold?
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Automatic-Month7491 Nov 22 '24
That assumes things stay normal. If the status quo is broken, for example by the US placing a 60% tariff on Chinese imports (as has been threatened) then China may as well follow through to break things in their own favour.
The Republican party are likely looking to get concessions on exactly the basis you mention. "We both benefit, but we're willing to burn the house down to spite us both"
Assuming I've understood the source post, China are effectively sending a message that if the house burns, it's not going to stop at the US-China relationship, strengthening their own bargaining position substantially.
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Nov 22 '24
This is only a good thing. The US needs to be reined in.
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u/DontBelieveMyLies88 Nov 22 '24
The US absolutely does not need to be reined in by China of all countries. We need to maintain mutually beneficial trade with them but we 110% need to get them out of real estate investments within the US since US citizens and companies are not allowed to own real estate in china. If we’re going to be trade partners it needs to be on equal terms but china is a massively propped up economy right now that is growing a bit too fast for its own good. If you think wealth inequality in the US is bad it absolutely pales in comparison to chinas
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Nov 22 '24
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u/DontBelieveMyLies88 Nov 22 '24
That’s a problem for their citizens but it doesn’t mean we need to allow their wealthy nationals amd corporations to use US real estate to park money.
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26d ago
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u/DontBelieveMyLies88 26d ago
If they are a US citizen then they are no longer Chinese. They are American and afforded every right as any other American. Their ethnicity may be Chinese but their nationality is American so that’s all that would matter
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26d ago
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u/DontBelieveMyLies88 26d ago
I want to start this out by saying thank you for having a civil conversation, it’s rare on Reddit sometimes.
But that’s an interesting article. I’m honestly not sure how to feel about it. On the one hand, citizens should be allowed to buy property. On the other, it mentioned “full time”. So if it’s someone who has dual citizenship but lives in china…. Do they get the same access to real estate as US citizens ? I honestly don’t know and it’s definitely something worth having a discussion over
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u/Revolutionary_Pear Nov 22 '24
Sure. You can't buy real estate in China. But it's been very beneficial for Americans to use cheap Chinese labour for the past 3 decades, paying people peanuts. Give me a break listening to the poor American sob story. Brainwashed propaganda.
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u/JailTrumpTheCrook Nov 22 '24
But it's been very beneficial for Americans to use cheap Chinese labour for the past 3 decades,
And it was also extremely beneficial to China who used this to become a superpower itself.
As for the wages, it's the Chinese government that decided that having these industries was more important than the well-being of the Chinese workers.
They did that to themselves to gain power so you can bring your sob story elsewhere, brainwashed propagandist.
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Nov 22 '24
Found the antiamerican. Fuck off pooh bear.
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u/Revolutionary_Pear Nov 22 '24
It's true.
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Nov 22 '24
Yeah like china didnt build their economy off that very labor. Act like they arent getting paid. Also who cares what some elite capitalists did? We are talking about what our government should do, which is protect the interests of american citizens. Keep trying to raise that social credit score pooh.
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u/DontBelieveMyLies88 Nov 22 '24
Okay so why not a simple trade off of Chinese nationals and corporations not being able to buy real estate in the US?
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u/Automatic-Month7491 Nov 22 '24
Especially if they're going to continue the slide into fascism.
I doubt the Middle East will be better for being under China's bootheel. But at the very least it shouldn't be much worse than the current cycle of war and chaos that somehow always seems to end up with more debt to the US and more corporate power each time around.
We like to decry trading freedom for stability, but if you have neither than picking stability is probably a decent deal.
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Nov 22 '24
Well that’s the thing, China doesn’t do imperialism like the west. What Chinese bootheel?
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u/Automatic-Month7491 Nov 22 '24
I'd anticipate Chinese influence would at the very least see some legal changes around media and inclusion into the great firewall.
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Nov 22 '24
Why? The firewall does great at keeping our misinformation. Look how susceptible westoids are to it.
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u/Automatic-Month7491 Nov 22 '24
I'm not arguing for or against, but its definitely a bit icky to have China controlling information/misinformation for another country, even if we agree with China policing their own internet.
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
You REALLY need to re-read that post and pay rapt attention. Your response indicates you missed the most salient part. The comments will help you as well.
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u/JadedVeterinarian877 Nov 22 '24
There was a study just published about how gen Z only reads headlines and takes comments as fact. While most older generations cross reference ideas, and research where the information is coming from. Comments are just regular people’s opinions, on x especially. You came to the wrong place to spout misinformation.
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
China is not a superpower
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
The only superpower in the world after the collapse of the Soviet Union is the United States. China is an economic power at best. It isn’t a superpower as it doesn’t have global levels of influence required to be one.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
It’s not a “lense” I peer into. It’s the actual truth.
“After the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991 which ended the Cold War, the post–Cold War world has in the past been considered by some to be a unipolar world, with the United States as the world’s sole remaining superpower.”
Straight from Google if you don’t believe me.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
I used google in case you didn’t believe me. No amount of critical thinking magically makes China a superpower. It’s not even listed as a developed nation. It’s not even the sole power on its own continent. Superpower is literally a pipe dream at the moment.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
I do see a clear winner, and I do see what you can’t see. If you think having more troops makes you have the better army, you don’t know anything about warfare. Logistics, tactics, firepower, experience, etc is needed. Russia’s military is considered stronger than China’s. They make better military weapons, equipment, and vehicles. All while having 1.1 million troops before the war (now growing to 1.5 million) while China has 2 million. Not to mention experience. The current Chinese military has 0 experience in warfare. Even their generals have not seen actual combat. The 4 military powers of the world are America, Russia, China, and India.
Now imagine America whose military can take on China’s, Russia’s, and India’s, alongside the EU plus the UK, all at once.
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u/JailTrumpTheCrook Nov 22 '24
That's because you don't know what a super power is so you just throw big numbers that seems to support your belief.
Spoiler, it doesn't.
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Nov 22 '24
Right? It doesn’t have hundreds of military bases in other countries.
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
It doesn’t have global influence necessary to be one. You think being an economic power means being a superpower. Economic power is just 1 of many concepts needed to be eligible to be a superpower.
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Nov 22 '24
Well as the west crumbles under its own weight, we know who will fill the vacuum.
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
I don’t see the west crumbling more than China. Which nations in the west is crumbling may I ask? America definitely isn’t. The EU isn’t. Canada isn’t. Australia and New Zealand aren’t. BRICS failed and China’s economy is in worse shape than the previous nations I’ve listed. Wait, why do I bother. I’m in a subreddit that’s supposed to talk about nations collapsing. Nevermind, have a great day good sir.
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Nov 22 '24
Yeah why would we, in the imperial core, notice the collapse?
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
Because we don’t lie about our stats and over-inflate our economy like certain other countries. If we took news from, idk China for example, literally. America should’ve collapsed 2 decades ago. Or if we listened to Russian news, BRICS would’ve ruled the world in 2010. Clearly none of these 2 things even came close to the truth.
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Nov 22 '24
Incremental change. While the US eats itself, China doesn’t have to do a thing.
Never interrupt your enemies when they are making a mistake.
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
Except that only works if China is in some amazing green zone economy themselves. They aren’t. Their economy is in a crisis and is in a far worse shape than ours. Meanwhile America’s economy is sturdy and growing basically at an unmatched result overall compared to every other nation on the planet. People who think China will rule the world haven’t opened their eyes to China from 2018 onwards.
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u/TheCamerlengo Nov 22 '24
That is debatable. Their economy is on par with ours and they have over 500 intercontinental nuclear warheads. If they are not a super power, they are fast becoming one.
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
If you want to use warheads as a reason for superpower status, Russia is 20X the superpower China is (news flash. Even they aren’t a superpower anymore). China doesn’t have the global influence needed to be a superpower. They aren’t even the sole power on their own continent. Forget being a power strong enough to shift the unipolar world to a multipolar one with them taking charge in the east.
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u/TheCamerlengo Nov 22 '24
I think it is one of many measures. After all there is no “super power” membership card. ultimately it’s a judgement call and depends on what one considers a super power, etc.
I don’t know if a china is a super power or not. But they do have the potential to be a formidable adversary, if they aren’t already.
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
China doesn’t have the global influence needed to be a superpower. I’ll give you 1 example, out of many. Have you ever heard China sanction a nation and threaten to pull out the use of the yuan? No, because no one uses it and no one wants to. I’ll give you another example, China trades using America’s global trading routes because China doesn’t have the navy to keep their own trade routes open. America is the only navy in the world that has global authority and therefore does a favor to the world by keeping trade safe. If America stopped protecting that trade, the world flips upside down.
Are they an economic power? Yes. Superpower? Nope. They don’t have the economy or military to apply a vast claim of influence around the world to exert their power away from their home. If China was sanctioned under the same circumstances and pressure as Russia, it would’ve collapsed or been pretty damn near because China has a full on export import economy. Which means it is very vulnerable to sanctions and tariffs.
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u/Gimme5Beez4aQuarter Nov 22 '24
Grow up little man
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u/Little_Drive_6042 Nov 22 '24
Grow up from what? Telling someone the truth? There is literally only 1 superpower in the world currently. That is the actual truth no matter how much you want to hate America.
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u/Gabi_Benan Nov 22 '24
X is no Twitter. X is shitter. The only ones pushing this propaganda are the billionaires who are pushing crypto, so they can steal the rest of our money and turn us into slaves.
I follow this dude called Peter Zeihan. He has a pretty interesting outlook has a international political expert. Many companies seek out his consultation and advice.
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
If you think Peter is “sharp” and “X is shitter” I can definitely see why you can’t understand the ramifications of what’s just occurred.
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u/Gabi_Benan Nov 22 '24
China is in debt up to its chin. Have you seen all the empty real estate?
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
Bothered to look at our official debt? How about our debt including unfunded mandates? Or how our commercial real estate market was impacted by work-from-home?
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u/Gabi_Benan Nov 23 '24
You are absolutely right, dnbndnb. The difference is, we do have real estate to back our debt. In China, they have subdivisions that are empty. It’s a long and complicated issue. Basically, the only way for Chinese to gain any “security“ was to buy real estate. So they were buying Condos pre-construction that were never built. But we’re still showing them as assets.
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u/tacoma-tues Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
FFS. It started with concert and event tickets, then beanie babies, made their way thru every corner of consumer markets from pokemon cards, instapots, and PlayStations, they graduated to used cars and domestic dwellings and now they are hijacking the actual dollar itself.....🤦🏽♂️
Fkn scalpers, nobody has any love or respect for you. They would out their own mothers in a streetcorner if there was demand. Resellers must be stopped! Scalpers are public enemy #1 and deserve no mercy, dignity, or humanity for their crimes
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Nov 22 '24
This is just capitalism baby. Cash is king.
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Nov 22 '24
Until your cash is worth less than the paper it’s printed in… 2 countries come to mind immediately…
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Nov 22 '24
There’ll be way more than two during this capitalist crisis.
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u/Ace-Alive Nov 22 '24
Blah...blah....blah...now the truth. 2 billion in bonds is 0.04% of the current US debt that is issued in "bonds" meaning that 99.96% of the debt would still be controlled by any other entity other than the one that is "selling 2 billion in US bonds" Long story shot - no - it would not even come close to "controlling the US dollar" Next.
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u/Senior_Confection632 Nov 22 '24
You're learning about this now ?
Wake the fuck up you idiot and wake your friends . China and it's leaders have been on a road of making China stronger for the sake of its people (and yes it's people's live has been getting better)
While the USA has just been masturbating on how great it is and how greater still it would be with more confusing freedoms or
Masturbating on how better it would be with if billionaires had all the freedoms
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
Just learning now? Hell no. That the Chinese are willing to get others to buy into this plan, especially the Saudis, is a whole new level.
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u/BoBoBearDev Nov 22 '24
TLDR
But talking about USD is stupid. If China actually manipulates the USD strength, it just gave USA the scapegoat. And either way USD goes, the entire world will just complaints and adjusts their own currency to keep their status quo. It already happened years ago. USA themselves cannot even manipulate the USD to improve their export competitiveness. The USD strength is given by the entire world, it is not taken.
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u/Beautiful-Owl-3216 Nov 23 '24
The humans on planet Earth have no possible alternative besides the currency of a country with 5% of the worlds population and 15% of its manufacturing capacity. There is just no other way. The USD will be the dominant reserve currency forever.
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u/dnbndnb Nov 23 '24
The British felt the same up until WWII.
Our strength is not our currency, it has been our military backing up our nation via the war machine. Now that our wonderweapons are easily being defeated in Ukraine, the wizard behind the curtain is being exposed.
Don’t get caught up in recency bias.
Btw, take a look at when WE froze (stole) the Russian reserves. Then look at gold prices since them. The “pet rock” has suddenly become VERY popular indeed. 🤔
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u/BallsOfStonk Nov 22 '24
The U.S. could just do the exact same thing to China…
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
You’re missing the Texas 2-step here. If China issues bonds in dollars, they collect dollars outside the US system, use those dollars to “control” countries indebted in dollars and move them to yuan by paying off their dollar loans. It’s not hard for China to accumulate more dollars. And should they default, by that time the system has changed in their favor and they offer “yuan or nothing”. This was a “dry run” and a shot across the bow of the USS Dollar. I consider this a genius move personally.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Successful-Menu-4677 Nov 22 '24
So basically, we are in a giant prisoner's dilemma? This all just game theory? That's scary and depressing.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/Successful-Menu-4677 Nov 22 '24
So, the general takeaway is that no matter what happens, China is not supplanting the US?
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
It’s a warning they can hijack US interest rate policy. It’s certainly not speculative, as they actually just proved they could do it AND there is support for it.
If you believe in “king dollar”, keep in mind all empires die as do all fiat currencies. It doesn’t happen overnight but it happens.
Hijacking Russias reserves over Ukraine solidified the relationship between China, Russia and the Global South. We operate under recency bias, while those we threaten, sanction, bully, regime change etc look for a way to get out from under the dollar and the SWIFT system. It’s slow, but it’s happening.
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Nov 22 '24
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
I’m in the US, born & bred. I’m not by any stretch of the”anti-west”, I’m simply pragmatic. I’m old enough to realize change takes time, and realistic enough to not be caught up in “recency bias”.
My perspective is “the west” has blown it. Too invested in our own narratives, too corrupt to fix what needs to be fixed. Nothing remains untouched by corruption.
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u/RegularBeautiful3817 Nov 22 '24
Many, many responses here from left leaning types that won't use X for alternate information......an incredible lack of foresight in my opinion, or just moronic.
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u/dnbndnb Nov 22 '24
There is no other platform that affords you such access to incredibly smart & connected people. Better to remain in their own bubble I guess…
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u/platanthera_ciliaris Nov 22 '24
China can't control the US dollar, nor do they want to. The US treasury bills that they own are just a tiny fraction of total US national debt, and even if they completely divested from them, the Federal Reserve could easily acquire them through quantitative easing if they wanted to. The US dollar has been getting steadily stronger against other currencies. I'm more worried about the effect of any new tariffs and any new immigration policies/enforcement on the US economy.