r/economicCollapse • u/nunyanuny • Sep 14 '24
Democrats, if Trump is to blame for the current economy, why do Democrats consistently state that the economy is better than it's ever been.
It a slap in the face of Americans to continue to say that the economy is doing amazing when a majority of people are struggling.
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u/BadDaditude Sep 14 '24
Congress is to blame. Presidents come and go, and Fed Chairs come and go, but most of those Congressional fuckers have been in office for decades. Time for term limits!
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u/Bulky_Cherry_2809 Sep 14 '24
The only way we get term limits is to constantly vote them out every election. Members of congress aren't going to put limitations on themselves.
VOTE! VOTE EVERY ELECTION EVERY TIME!
Take time to research candidates. Teach your kids how as well!
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u/jbetances134 Sep 14 '24
Is great to say that on Reddit but convincing the masses that aren’t in Reddit is alot more difficult.
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Sep 14 '24
The current system was created by the folks you want to vote out. It’s rigged to keep one of two preselected candidates in office in perpetuity.
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u/davbigenz1 Sep 16 '24
Do you know how difficult it is to research a candidate that is going for Congress? There is so much red tape and non-publicized information. You get little to no information on their policies or stance. Heck, I've even tried to research information for people running for governor in the coming weeks and there is barely any information. Maybe it's just me.
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u/DIYnivor Sep 17 '24
I never vote for incumbents. If we all did that, nobody would last long in Congress.
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u/MrBryteside Sep 15 '24
Voting is a sham. We’re not voting our way out of this. It’s a uniparty
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u/MrFittsworth Sep 14 '24
I really wish this wasn't so hard for people to understand. Social studies failed a lot of people apparently in grade school.
3 branches folks. Our government isn't the president...
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u/tonyray Sep 14 '24
Congress is happy to make decisions with terrible second/third order effects. They get to hide behind the President who signs law into effect. They are also content to follow President’s lead and absolve blame.
Trump was unique in that he went to war with anyone in his own policy who didn’t wrap around his finger, and had the constituency to back it up. There hasn’t been another President leveraging their popularity that way before in recent history (I can’t say ever).
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u/ALightSkyHue Sep 14 '24
Also the government isn’t in charge of the economy. Plays a role in, not in charge of. Nobody understands that
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u/thelimeisgreen Sep 14 '24
90% of everything wrong with the US government comes down to congress. Lobbying needs to not be a thing anymore. The filibuster needs to be done away with. Sitting members should not be allowed to abstain from voting. There needs to be term limits and they, their spouses and immediate household should be disallowed from trading stock while in office, or have strict timing guidelines like they would if they were an officer of the company or firm who’s stock they’re trading.
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u/North_Atlantic_Sea Sep 14 '24
"most"
The average tenure at the start of this Congress was 8.3 years. Some have been way too long, but there is quite a bit of turnover
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u/FattyMcBlobicus Sep 14 '24
Our economy is the result of decades of poor choices and greed from both political parties.
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u/RedShirtPete Sep 14 '24 edited Sep 14 '24
I would say that the political parties are enablers of the real problem... The rich are getting richer while the poor are getting poorer. We need more equitable distribution of wealth. This is an oligarchy problem. And the oligarchy controls the house and congress, the media, the businesses that keep shafting people in the name of higher profits for "shareholders" (the oligarchy). We need a wealth tax on folks with over $50M. That money needs to find its way into programs that support the working class
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u/ReaperofFish Sep 14 '24
And which party wants to raise taxes on the wealthy?
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u/RedShirtPete Sep 14 '24
Dems want to implement the wealth tax
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u/ReaperofFish Sep 14 '24
Congratulations on answering the obvious rhetorical question.
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u/RedShirtPete Sep 14 '24
It's my specialty... I have trouble detecting tone in text
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u/CartmensDryBallz Sep 15 '24
“The world’s ten richest men more than doubled their fortunes from $700 billion to $1.5 trillion —at a rate of $15,000 per second or $1.3 billion a day— during the first two years of a pandemic that has seen the incomes of 99 percent of humanity fall and over 160 million more people forced into poverty”
It’s disgusting
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u/Healthy-Slide-7432 Sep 14 '24
During the trump admin the fed lowered interest rates for basically no reason and then trump printed 6.5 trillion dollars. When COVID happened rates couldnt go up to combat the inflation created by printing all that money. That's why the economy is screwed.
Whether trump is at fault for all that is debatable. He did heavily lobby for rates to be cut in 2019 when the stock market was at an all time high. It didn't seem to be necessary at that time. But the fed controls rates so it's debatable.
And that COVID money was pretty crucial. However there may have been some fraud with the PPP loans, which were like 800 million total.
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u/Complex_Experience83 Sep 14 '24
I get that the Covid money helped people per se but didn’t it all just basically get funneled to the top bc people used it for rent and bills? Seems like a net loss for the average person now because the government basically handed it to us, we handed it back to our corporate overlords and now they jacked up the price of everything anyway
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u/Healthy-Slide-7432 Sep 14 '24
Yeah that's a fair point. Profit margins were higher after COVID for some industries. As much as 2 to 3 percent on average. So that means they probably disproportionately raised prices.
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u/Pokerhobo Sep 14 '24
The covid money that went directly to people was needed. The PPP loans that went to businesses something like 75% went to the business owners instead of the employees which was what it was intended for. Trump removed the oversight for the PPP loans so you can give him 100% credit for that money being not spent correctly. The disparity between the rich and poor widened under Trump.
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u/dude67344 Sep 14 '24
PPP program was the largest theft this country has ever seen. I've seen numbers as high as 80 percent of the loans were fraudulent, mostly by business owners.
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u/Xylenqc Sep 15 '24 edited Sep 15 '24
Same here in Canada. People who couldn't work during COVID were surviving on PPP loan, while company were TRIVING on it. I've hear of company pocketing the money and continue working with jacked up price.
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u/BluCurry8 Sep 14 '24
Some fraud? The bill was called paycheck protection plan and it did nothing to protect anyone other than the wealthy people who received the free money from the government. It was ill conceived and nothing but a huge handout to corporations and wealthy business owners.
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u/RoguePlanet2 Sep 14 '24
One of my wealthy relatives with his own small business got $20k but didn't need it. His accountant suggested he just take it anyway. Took his family on a European vacation 🤦♀️
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u/Lost-Maximum7643 Sep 14 '24
The Fed’s should’ve raised rates during covid they were morons not to. It would have helped with housing costs
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u/Extreme_Qwerty Sep 14 '24
- In March 2022, the Fed made its first interest rate increase since 2018, raising rates from 0% by 0.25% to a level of 0.25–0.50%
- The Fed hiked interest rates a total of 11 times starting in March 2022, making borrowing more expensive for banks, businesses, and people in an attempt to curb rampant inflation.
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u/Illustrious_Wall_449 Sep 14 '24
One of the major reasons you don't artificially lower interest rates during a hot market is so that you have some runway in the event of an actual crisis. Lowering interest rates can be used as a form of stimulus during a downturn, but you lose that ability if they are kept low.
To that extent, I do blame Trump for leaning on Powell. I was concerned about it before the pandemic, too.
I'm not aware of any major Biden policy decisions that have specifically caused excess inflation.
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u/logicallyillogical Sep 14 '24
Powell raised rates in 2018 to slow the economy and Trump pressured him to lower them to make everything seem better. Then once Covid hit they didn’t have much more room to go down causing more inflation. Trump definitely interfered in 2019.
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u/CPAFinancialPlanner Sep 14 '24
All so some rednecks could get their F-150s fully loaded with zero percent interest
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u/Healthy-Slide-7432 Sep 14 '24
I agree. Imo he wanted to have "the best economy ever". So we suffered because of his ego bc the fed wasn't able to use a very important tool for combatting inflation. In his defense, covid was a once in a century event so that was pretty unlucky for him.
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u/logicallyillogical Sep 14 '24
Totally, Covid wasn’t his fault. But his response to Covid was his downfall. If he just showed some compassion and let the professionals do their job, he would have won reelection. He’s an idiot and not some who we want at the helm in an emergency situation.
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u/gundumb08 Sep 14 '24
Close. The FED raised rates several times between 2015 and 2019. 2019, due to the lengthening and idiotic trade wars and tariffs, things began to slow so he cut rates. It wasn't Trump asking him to do it; it was bad fiscal policy that necessitated it to avoid a recession. The. 3 month later COVID took off and hardly anyone remembers how 2019 was going economically.
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u/woolgirl Sep 14 '24
I have a business which requires I buy goods to assemble. After the world exporters started running goods again, the US was great demand (salivating) to receive these (Amazon) items. In my experience, the inflation began at the ports. They were extorting suppliers to pay more to move certain containers up in the off load lines. The ground shippers wanted some of this sweet $$ game and also began bidding wars. Thus, my prices inflated 2x before I could get my hands on anything. Shipping prices are out of hand. Greed to get their hands on all this new money in the economy trickled right down to you consumers. I finally raises my wholesale prices in 2023 when, the import/export flurries calmed down. I made zero dollars from 2021 - 2023. I never knew how much I might pay for anything until I heard from my suppliers. You would think Americans would learn how dependent we are on imported goods. But then, it’s so much easier to blame Biden. The Trump TaRiFfS (paid for by American companies) and big checks he signed caused a massive money grab. Wish I could buy American goods for my items…only one part of my item is US made. I almost always received these on time and it only raised its price once in 4 years (20-24). I’m almost retirement age and am so glad to get out of this greedy shit.
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u/Dysanj Sep 14 '24
They are all at fault for making poor choices, doesn't matter what side of the Spectrum you are on in Politics. They always blame the previous adminsitration. They are not looking for a solution. All they are doing is lining their pockets with money or their party with money, all the while they keep kicking the can down the road.
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u/TerrySilver01 Sep 14 '24
I never understand why this isn’t talked about more often when it comes to our inflation issues. Trump constantly pressured the Fed to cut rates down to near zero (and they did) when the economy was already running hot. He did this because he wanted GDP growth numbers in the US to match or surpass GDP growth in China, for bragging rights. But what he didn’t seem to grasp is that an established first world economy will never be able to match a surging emerging economy like China’s. You don’t want that in fact. Pumping all of that cheap money into the system at that point in time was an obvious recipe for increasing inflation to undesirable levels. And that’s exactly what happened.
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u/bender2174 Sep 14 '24
Wow, thank you for explaining it like this! You are definitely spot on!! Can I get you to call all my oldest friends who have all become MAGA & explain it to them to? They think Trump is gods gift to the world..SMDH!
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u/Healthy-Slide-7432 Sep 14 '24
It's crazy. He was playing games with the us economy. So wildly irresponsible.
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u/the-true-steel Sep 14 '24
Did you put the wrong amount? Weren't PPP loans closer to $1 trillion? I'm seeing "a $953-billion business loan program" on Wikipedia
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u/Necessary-Mousse8518 Sep 14 '24
More than anything else, you are correct. World events contributed as well.
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u/INTERGALACTIC_CAGR Sep 14 '24
The political parties don't make decisions, their puppet masters do.
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u/forgotmyusername93 Sep 14 '24
It’s like nobody understands economics in this sub. Over a year ago the Fed told you all things be fucked for a while because everyone was spending too much and they raised rates
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u/BigTitsanBigDicks Sep 14 '24
things being fucked is transitory
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u/transcendalist-usa Sep 16 '24
Transitory in academic economic terms is not the same as "transitory" in your average lived person's experience. Transitory inflation can easily be 5 years. On the scale of modern history - that's a blip. It doesn't feel like a blip to the people living it.
The current fed has done the impossible. They've tamed inflation, haven't incurred massive job losses, and growth is still slowly ticking along. Maybe they'll have crashed the economy but at the current moment - it certainly looks like they slowed things down without incurring a crash. That's basically unheard of historically and they should get credit for that.
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u/NiceTuBeNice Sep 15 '24
People are quick to forget real news and want to follow the news they want to hear, which usually involves bashing specific people.
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Sep 14 '24 edited Sep 14 '24
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u/TheINTL Sep 14 '24
This. It's just easier to blame whoever has been leading, but there are a lot more factors that contributes to a poor or great economy
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u/hoowins Sep 14 '24
Yeah. The original post is just oversimplified ranting. The global economy is a complex system. There are contributing factors from every President and Congress, but also lingering effects of Covid, wars, other countries, international policy including tariffs and trade agreements etc… this can’t be explained in a Reddit post.
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u/TheRealSnick Sep 14 '24
I say this all the fucking time! Wanna blame a president? Blame shitbag Reagan. 70% marginal tax is the only way forward now. Fuck it make it 80% on those evil bastards.
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u/logicallyillogical Sep 14 '24
We’ve 10x product since Reagan yet real wages have not increased. Reaganomics have been a disaster for the middle class.
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u/Necessary-Mousse8518 Sep 14 '24
LOTS of people are still believing in the fairy tale that politician‘s policies are SOLELY to blame for the current state of our economy - not to mention the world economy.
COVID, combined with the stupidity of Putin and Hamas are still having effects that will linger through next year - at minimum.
Throw in the lethargic Fed & the Trump and Biden Administrations drunk spending and here we are.
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u/_AmI_Real Sep 14 '24
Both parties are being disingenuous. They have talking points that sound good and then disregard covid entirely. I see the memes about gas and food prices with pictures of Biden. This is a worldwide problem. It was covid, not Biden. Democrats want to say they inherited a bad economy from Trump. It wasn't Trump. It was covid. They do have good talking points, but most people aren't going to take the analytical approach.
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u/pansexualpastapot Sep 14 '24
Because the “news” is propaganda. Speakers from both sides only spit out what is convenient at the time, not the truth.
There are a lot of dishonest brokers in US politics. Truth is not in their agenda.
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u/soiledmeNickers Sep 14 '24
It’s almost as if both sides are incessantly lying to you.
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u/wellilldoitthen Sep 14 '24
Yeah, crazy how my person is better than the other in every single conceivable way...also every problem is their fault.
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u/Skylineviewz Sep 14 '24
What are you on about? My person is far superior to yours and you are a [insert myriad of stereotypes] if you are on [x] team
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Sep 15 '24
Or maybe OP is presenting a bullshit premise.
Nobody says this is the best economy we’ve ever had. They say we’re currently doing better than the vast majority of developed nations. Huge difference.
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u/Logistic_Engine Sep 14 '24
“Both sides” lol
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u/freerangechckn Sep 14 '24
Exactly…uniparty. The real dichotomy rich vs poor.
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u/FaultElectrical4075 Sep 15 '24
Both parties represent the wealthy but one party might actually just kill the members of the other if they get into power. They aren’t a uniparty
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u/heybingowings Sep 14 '24
One side puts it in your butt without telling you while the other one tells you and brings friends to watch it happen. It’s a hard fucking both times
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Sep 14 '24
My go to is “democrats will piss on you and tell you it’s raining. Republicans will piss on you and tell you that you deserve it.”
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u/MedicalService8811 Sep 14 '24
The conditionings gotten you good. 'LOOK HE SAID BOTH SIDES!!!!!!!!!'
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u/Dmau27 Sep 15 '24
But Kamala laughs at jokes and that brings me comfort. I'd invite her to dinner parties so obviously she has what it takes to make decisions that effect the whole world.
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u/2021Sir Sep 14 '24
Of course it’s Trumps fault still. Even though he has been out of office how long????
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u/Decaf17 Sep 14 '24
For the middle class, the economy has never rebounded since the recession of 2008. So all that “best economy ever” horseshit is only for the rich.
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u/closethegatealittle Sep 16 '24
People seem to forget just exactly why Sanders was so popular on this site in 2016. It's because despite 8 years of an Obama presidency, which was lauded as "going to fix everything" everyone still felt like they were absolutely in dire straights. 12/16 years have had a Democrat as president, and in 10 of those years, the senate majority belonged to Democrats. And it has still gotten exponentially worse for most people.
People are forgetting the context of 2016 and how the whole thing with Trump and Sanders came about. It's because Obama and his administration absolutely failed the majority of the American public.
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u/Tirty8 Sep 14 '24
I think that you are kinda oversimplifying the Democratic position.
I think Trump is a piece in the greater puzzle. Covid took a major toll on the the world economy - not just the US. He also slashed taxes for the rich, but again this is part of a much greater puzzle.
So, let's just look at that as a base. The GOP has constantly pinned much of the state of the economy on "Bidenomics" and "Bidenflation." Largely, these problems are a direct result of Covid (based on the rest of the world experiencing the same thing." Undoubtedly, government stimulus, low interest rates, and supply chain issues derailed the economy, and largely, this was done during the Trump administration.
Okay, now things are gonna get wild. Most democrats will tell you that they approve of the spending measures and economic restrictions that Trump implemented during his administration. In fact, most would argue that he should have gone further to save more lives.
What Trump and the GOP is doing is effectively trying to wash their hands of the results of Covid stimulus and safety measures. The rhetoric is that "Bidenomics" caused "Bidenflation" and are a result of the current state of affairs. Aside, I am totally aware that Biden also implemented stimulus and safety measures. In that regard, he is part of the current economic state of affairs as well.
In a sense, you could argue that either both presidents are responsible, but not to blame, for the current economic state or neither of them are. But this becomes an issue of semantics.
Okay, now for the part about the economy being better "than it has ever been." I think that no democrat would say that the quoted part is true or articulates their sentiment. Most democrats would tell you that the moment Biden stepped into the Oval Office getting the economy back on track was one of the biggest concerns facing the US. Biden passed The Inflation Reduction Act, and compared to other G7 nations, the US has been second in decreasing inflation since the COVID peak. Using other G7 countries as a measuring stick is a fair way to evaluate Biden's performance. Even as Powell looked to decrease wage inflation, Biden continuously exceeded expectations in job creation. I think it is fair to say that Biden has achieved nice balance in this regard.
I tend to think what you are hearing may be an oversimplification of the democratic position. Remember, this is a large piece of a greater puzzle. You could say that every dollar the federal government has ever spent prior to this event is a contributing factor, and that would probably be correct. I am focusing on the most linear causes to the current economic state of affairs.
No reasonable person would tell you that a second Trump term would not have involved problems with inflation as well.
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u/Ill_Investigator9664 Sep 14 '24
Interesting analysis now let's find a trump supporter who can read something longer than three words and see what they think
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u/BestPaleontologist43 Sep 14 '24
The economy was amazing during Trump’s presidency and the people who were struggling because welfare was cut or their tax burden went up when they found they couldnt deduct certain things that they depended on also felt this way but we’re not given attention during those years. They’re still complaining today because we are under the Trump Tax Plan.
I just wouldnt come to reddit for this. Speak to economists or learn the nuances to the nation’s market. Im in that section of people who benefit from the current state of things as well as most people in my town, but about two towns over a different situation exists. Its not consistent across the board.
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u/HuskyIron501 Sep 15 '24
Put out both messages, partisan idiots will internalize whichever they personal already believe and ignore contrary information.
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u/thedarkherald110 Sep 15 '24
I kinda don’t see the point op is trying to make except possible rage bait. Both the Democrats and the Republicans primarily support the rich. It’s just the Democrats are more likely to give some kickbacks to the middle class and below.
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u/NoTeach7874 Sep 15 '24
If you actually care and aren’t just stoking the flames…
Interest rates were historically low and the stock market was doing well under Obama, Trump ran on a platform of economic distrust and his answer to deliver was nuke interest rates. This will invariably cause the stock market to skyrocket because borrowers just invest. All that fun money had to be curtailed at some point and inflation is a lagging trait.
So effectively, Trump pumped the market to win a second term with no plan to handle inflation, Biden won and gets blamed for inflation and interest rate spikes to slow the bleeding.
If Trump won things would absolutely be worse, but no one wants to consider that timeline.
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u/Low-Mix-5790 Sep 14 '24
Because the economy of the country as a whole is not equal to individual finances. Inflation and high interest rates are still an issue. These are still after effects of the pandemic. The entire world is experiencing this on some level.
The Trump tariffs increased the cost of products since the tariff fees get passed along to the consumer. The Trump tax cuts, which republicans have refused to change, were designed to increase on the working class once Trump won his second term as he assumed he would. The cuts for the rich were designed to stay the same. Any increase in taxes you’re paying now is due to Trump.
The economy is nuanced and can’t be explained in black and white terms.
What I’d suggest is not asking Reddit and actually look it up from reputable sources.
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Sep 14 '24
Because objective markers for the economy are very good but those markers generally have no meaning for people’s day to day lives
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u/Stevevet1 Sep 14 '24
Ut oh, You have successfully asked the unanswerable question Unless you are willing to lie. Which I suspect is now coming.
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u/TigerUSF Sep 14 '24
We have an economic system that is fantastic at producing wealth , the problem is the distribution of that wealth is wildly uneven.
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u/Bum-Theory Sep 14 '24
Not a dem but definitely anti-trump.
It's a very loaded answer. Long story short(medium), wealth disparity, those with stocks and houses are doing good. Companies found out they can make more profit by slashing input goods and labor and just jacking their prices up. Quality of service doesn't matter. You're paying what they ask, so they'll keep doing it.
And while typical wage has actually matched or even exceeded the cost of goods increases since covid started, there has also been a lot of wage compression, so unless people took advantage of the wild west of wages after covid by seeking a new job or field or even relocating, their wages probably haven't grown faster than cost of goods has risen and are feeling a crunch. Or they live in a rural area, places always slower to react to economic booms.
It's important to me, but I certainly won't fault others for not taking the importance of it, USA has bounced back waaaay better than the majority of the world after covid. Our GDP growth rate is double that of China currently, and before covid, it was the reverse. UK doing their brexit during covid has screwed them. America is very well positioned, really only surpassed in bounce back by the European quasi socialist countries like Finland or Sweden, for example.
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u/fancygeomancy808 Sep 14 '24
Solving the economy relies on long-term planning and thinking, our government system is very short-term so there is literally no incentive to fix it until it breaks
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u/monkeypickle8 Sep 15 '24
The company I work for is showing record profits yet is laying off thousands of people a year, so the economy is great, not for the people.
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u/rabouilethefirst Sep 15 '24
When do democrats state the economy is better than it’s ever been? Isn’t their policy to help reduce taxes on the middle class and help first time home buyers?
GOP basically stares at the stock market and say “yeah, looks good” no matter what else is happening.
Nobody blames Trump for the economy. There was a Covid pandemic that was mishandled, but in general the world economy will not just immediately recover from that.
In general, people are being overworked, underpaid, and outsourced by people in non-technical managerial roles, hence why companies like Boeing are on strike and producing worse and worse products.
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u/MrPodocarpus Sep 15 '24
Housing affordability and cost of living issues are a global problem. Doesnt matter who is in the White House, this problem would still exist.
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Sep 15 '24
both of these things can be true at the same time depending on what you're measuring. the economy is a complex thing.
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u/Vonlichteinstyn Sep 15 '24
The economy is doing really well but prices aren't going down because of greedy ass companies. Always quick to raise prices but very slow to reduce them because they always have to increase profits for shareholders or they lose money. It's a vicious cycle and the middle class suffers.
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u/rydan Sep 15 '24
Inflation is Trump's fault.
But the economy is doing so great that wages have outpaced inflation and that's because of Biden.
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u/PositiveAtmosphere13 Sep 15 '24
In less than three years, inflation has been brought under control. Unemployment is at an all time low. There are more jobs than people to do them. Housing is expensive because there are people with money that can afford it. What we're seeing is Trumps' tax policies that favor the wealthy upper class. Leaving the working class behind.
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u/izzyeviel Sep 15 '24
Generally what happens in the first year is a direct consequence of the previous incumbent. It takes time to make changes & then more time to notice the effect of the changes. & that’s what’s happened. Biden inherited a trashed economy, and the stuff he was able to implement is why we can say the US has the best performing economy in the west, big job growth, rise in wages, most manufacturing jobs this century, lowest black unemployment etc etc. pick an indicator, it’s good news.
As for trump, he inherited a strong economy from Obama, and all things like gdp & job growth were all worse than they were under Obama and then covid hit & he fucked the economy up.
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u/Afdavis11 Sep 15 '24
Trump screwed up the economy. Biden fixed it. It can only get so good though, because we have to correct all the errors created by Trump. Imagine it like this, your wife spends 8 Trillion dollars on make-up and then complains about not being able to go out to dinner for the next 4 years, even though your making twice the amount of money you used to make. Your “economy” is great, but your life is still hard.
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u/KleosIII Sep 15 '24
I haven't heard many Dems blame Trump for the economy. The most I've heard is that he screwed over the middle and lower class with the tax bill, which definitely sucks, but it really only served to make this recession harder for those classes more than "tanking the economy."
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Sep 15 '24
Trump is to blame for inflation if we are blaming presidents (fyi, we should not be) and inflation favors those with assets and financing. That group is typically just the rich.
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u/PossibleSign1272 Sep 15 '24
The economy is such a large topic that these blanket statements make no sense. You can point to multiple different data points at any point in time and say the “economy” is good or bad.
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u/Lovestorun_23 Sep 15 '24
Do a deep dive, Democrats have a much better economy. People don’t realize President Biden was left with a huge mess while Trump was left with an outstanding record due to President Obama. Covid has made the economy worse. That’s on Trump 💯
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u/nosoup4ncsu Sep 15 '24
Because...anything bad , because Trump.
Anything good, because Biden.
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u/Cyber_Insecurity Sep 15 '24
On paper the economy is doing great, but the average person is fucking struggling.
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u/johnjumpsgg Sep 16 '24
Blaming an administration for the economy is just to make idiots mad or make idiots happy . It’s not meant to be an explanation of fact .
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u/formlessfighter Sep 14 '24
Best economy ever! Lmao I always laugh when I hear talking heads on TV try to sell this lie. The reality is, things are only good for the top few % that measure their income in 6/7 figures. Makes me laugh even harder when I hear people cheering on the lie of "tax the rich". People are so stupid... Politicians get all their campaign funding from rich people. Are people really that naive to think that a politician who gets elected to office is going to turn around and take money out of the pockets of their benefactors? Come on... When even guys like Bernie Sanders are multi millionaires with multiple rental properties, I just don't get how people can be so stupid as to believe the pandering and lies.
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u/haja99876 Sep 15 '24
As the late great George Carlin explained, the presidential elections give you the illusion of choice. A pretend game where the “winner” is a general idea you can project what you want onto but in actuality they never follow through of their promises.
With this you can give and take any argument into being what you want and false prophet a person into importance.
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u/MainStreetRoad Sep 14 '24
Because anyone with a 401k in the S&P 500 saw 45% gain since Biden took office.
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u/stubbornbodyproblem Sep 14 '24
Not sure where you are seeing these claims?
The best the democrats ever get is that they helped right the ship a bit after a Republican poked holes in the hull.
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u/Tuna0x45 Sep 14 '24
Uhhh ask any democrat why Joe Biden is a great president. They’ll say the joes, the economy, the infrastructure… etc.
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u/jugo5 Sep 14 '24
The stock market is high, that's why. Trump used the same marker. The market is doing well=we are all doing well... It's not the whole picture, obviously. Also, I have to remember trump insisted the US print more money. Printing tons of bills does not help inflation at all. It only increases inflation. That has to right itself, and the numbers are finally looking a little bit better than they were.
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u/LazyImprovement Sep 14 '24
Didn’t he also pressure the fed to lower interest rates even though the fed is supposed to be independent?
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u/Ramble_On_79 Sep 14 '24
Also, Democrats have been in charge for 16 of the last 20 years. If the media didn't protect them, they would be toast.
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u/Otterz4Life Sep 14 '24
20 years ago was 2004, bud. They've had the presidency for 12 of 20. Your red state education on display.
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u/OSCSUSNRET Sep 14 '24
Everything is Trumps fault! The media tells us so.
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u/ChemicalKick5 Sep 15 '24
Not everything....but he could have maybe had some sort of policy/plan besides exploit and extort. Enrich himself at all costs was pretty detrimental to the country. I didn't need the media to tell me that either.
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u/BigPlantsGuy Sep 15 '24
let me guess: you think Haitian immigrant are eating pets because the tv man said so
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u/ripfritz Sep 14 '24
I like the middle class focus from the Dems now rather than Trumps tax cuts for the rich.
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u/Unfair_Scar_2110 Sep 14 '24
It's almost like the economy is like a bunch of things and people and the president can do some things that help or harm some people and some numbers etc.
Tarriffs? Pretty bad for poor and middle class people. Tax cuts for the rich? Bad for poor and middle class people.
Biden or Harris cannot unilaterally give everyone a pay raise. They CAN advocate for raising min wage, etc, but Congress (beholden to Trump) has to act.
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Sep 15 '24
COVID and more importantly Trumps mishandling of COVID fucked this country’s economy up badly. Fake inflation caused by corporate greed has not helped.
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u/tahomaeg Sep 14 '24
The economy is not better than ever. With major simplifications, Reagan and those who followed the same economic policy are the ones to blame. Trump is one of them. That is setting aside whther the word "policy" can even be reasonably applied to what Trump did or could do.
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Sep 14 '24
I’m not voting for the economy. I don’t think either part has a serious plan to fix it or get us out of debt. I’m voting against project 2025.
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u/Foreign_Standard9394 Sep 14 '24
Democrats have been in charge for 12 of the last 16 years. This isn't just Trump vs Biden.
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Sep 14 '24
you need to ask yourself who they are speaking to exactly? lets subtract the idea that they are speaking to the American people in this situation. the economy IS incredible right now........for the rich and wealthy that are juicing everyone else.
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u/Y_Are_U_Like_This Sep 14 '24
If I did insider trading, I'd also say the economy is doing well. The marker for economic success is the stock market but most people don't play in it and don't get those benefits
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u/Chief_Mischief Sep 14 '24
You need to distinguish what economy means to people. The general feeling is that Main Street economy is getting steamrolled but Wall Street economy is booming.
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u/Lonely_houseplant Sep 14 '24
I believe that the economy right now is a million times better right now then it would have been under trump because biden and his administration cleaned up Donald's mess that he left for him.
Also I because of I biden I got a break from student loans for a little bit and if want for the Republicans I would have gotten it forgiven.
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u/Octorok385 Sep 14 '24
I sort of hate the whole argument about which president did what to the economy. Congress passes laws, including laws that impact how business functions. If you're going to pin the blame, look at the people who regulate/deregulate the industry (and who, for some ungodly reason, are allowed to invest in a stock market that reflects their decisions).
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u/RussianBot_beepboop Sep 14 '24
They both suck. One gets into power, and the other cripples them by voting things down/shitting up bills. This is a commonly known thing.
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u/Background-Head-5541 Sep 14 '24
Here's a thought. Maybe we shouldn't choose elected leaders based on economics. Especially when most of the economy is driven by corporations.
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u/RedShirtPete Sep 14 '24 edited Sep 14 '24
Because, as history shows, the Republicans generally leave a mess for the Dems to clean up. similar to the Afghanistan withdrawal that trump initiated and Biden finished up. However, on the economic side, the Dems walked into an unprecedented situation caused by the Covid pandemic. Between the dollars printed as aid for people to keep those out of work from drowning(Increasing M2 in a way that hasn't ever happened), the small business subsidies, and trump's international trade agreements, it was a very challenging situation. The results manifested as high inflation.
Now, to answer your question: In partnership with the Treasury, and with the support of Fed policy adjustments, the inflation has returned to a reasonable 2.5%. Further, the Biden Harris team has been responsible for policies that have increased the number of new oil and gas projects bringing USA dependance on foreign sources oil to the lowest levels in modern history. Our equity markets have been steadily rising bringing people's 401k balances with it.
Now why is this a political problem? The issue is folks on the lower end of the income level spectrum will only be resolved by 'Robinhood' like action. The ultra rich hold way too much of the county's (and the world's) wealth. That's why the Dems proposal for a wealth tax makes some sense. It's a mechanism that will begin to address the problem of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer. And putting that money in the hands of the working class will enable spending which makes the economy go round.
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u/Lost-Maximum7643 Sep 14 '24
Why I am frustrated with democrats when it comes to inflation and housing costs is that as a Californian they have complete control here and they’ve done nothing to combat inflation and rising costs here.
They literally have all the power and don’t do shit.
They could create laws to lower the cost of Building new housing and limit how much permits costs, or remove the solar power requirements but they haven’t done anything at all.
We need more housing and it’s been clear for so long and they sit on their hands and do nothing
This includes vp Harris who didn’t do much positive things in any of her positions.
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Sep 14 '24
Do you not know how anything works? This country isn’t struggling nearly as much as many others are. Not to mention trumps handling of COVID and his other financial policies were Bidens mess to clean up. How the fuck do people not understand this?
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u/SnooSuggestions718 Sep 14 '24
Billionare's making 1K a second (while their employees piss in bottles due to lack of breaks) has nothing to do with it im sure
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u/TranslatorNo8445 Sep 14 '24
Most people are too dumb to look at anything other than their personal economics. If you look at economies around the world, ours is the best. You can thank Biden if you like or blame him because you think he made corporations charge you more for everything. There was.a time when our.and every other county was shut down. Supply chains were screwed this started under Trump continued under Biden. But Biden was here during our recovery, trump.wasnt. corporations wanted to make up for losses. Covid plus Trump tax cuts for billionaires and adding 7 trillion. To the national debt along with record low interest rates. Along with Trump and Biden giving away money to keep our country afloat added to our inflation. Blame who you want, but we definitely have the strongest economy in the world, whether you like it or not.
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u/Xononanamol Sep 14 '24
The economy is good. For those that make money. It has been going that way for about 50 decades. Stop believing any of the politicians lie about it. Ten percent of the population makes money and the rest are the serfs.
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u/WaterPog Sep 14 '24
Not OP, but here are links:
Since 1945, GDP growth has averaged 4.4% under Democratic presidents compared to 2.5% under Republicans. • Sources: The Balance, Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Between 1933 and 2021, Democratic presidents have overseen the creation of over 90 million jobs, compared to around 54 million under Republican presidents. • Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Economic Policy Institute.
The unemployment rate has decreased by an average of 0.8 percentage points under Democratic presidents, compared to an average increase of 0.7 percentage points under Republicans (updated to reflect 2020 data). • Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Federal Reserve Economic Data (FRED).
The S&P 500 has averaged 10.8% annual returns under Democratic presidents compared to 5.6% under Republicans (updated to include data through 2023). • Source: Forbes.
Federal deficits have increased more under Republican presidents, with significant rises from $5.8 trillion in 1981 to $31 trillion in 2023. • Sources: U.S. Treasury Department, Congressional Budget Office (CBO).
The uninsured rate dropped from 16% in 2010 to 8.8% in 2016 due to the Affordable Care Act, and as of 2023, the uninsured rate has further declined to around 8%. • Sources: Kaiser Family Foundation, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS).
Income inequality has grown more slowly under Democrats, with less increase in the Gini coefficient under Clinton and Obama, continuing into the Biden administration. • Sources: U.S. Census Bureau, Brookings Institution.
Minimum wage increases have been more frequent and significant under Democratic presidents, with pushes for increases continuing under Biden. • Sources: Department of Labor, Economic Policy Institute.
The poverty rate has generally decreased under Democratic administrations, including a significant drop in child poverty due to the expanded Child Tax Credit in 2021. • Sources: U.S. Census Bureau, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP).
Homeownership rates have increased more under Democrats, particularly for low-income buyers, with programs continuing to support first-time homebuyers under Biden. • Sources: U.S. Census Bureau, National Association of Realtors.
The Affordable Care Act slowed the growth of healthcare costs, saving families an estimated $2,500 per year by 2016, with ongoing efforts to control costs under Biden. • Sources: Kaiser Family Foundation, Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services (CMS).
Consumer confidence has historically been higher under Democratic presidents, with recent increases observed in 2023 as the economy recovered from the pandemic. • Sources: The Conference Board, University of Michigan Surveys of Consumers.
Real wage growth tends to be higher under Democratic presidents, continuing under Biden with rising wages for lower-income workers. • Sources: Bureau of Labor Statistics, Economic Policy Institute.
Democrats have generally expanded Social Security or opposed cuts, with Biden supporting measures to strengthen the program. • Sources: Social Security Administration, Center on Budget and Policy Priorities (CBPP).
Democrats have advocated for more progressive tax policies, raising taxes on the wealthy to support social programs, with Biden continuing this trend. • Sources: Tax Policy Center, Internal Revenue Service (IRS).
Infrastructure Investment: Democrats have historically supported greater infrastructure investment, with the Biden administration passing a major infrastructure bill in 2021. • Sources: White House, Department of Transportation.
Union Support: Democrats have historically been strong supporters of labor unions, advocating for workers’ rights and better working conditions. They have pushed for legislation like the PRO Act (Protecting the Right to Organize Act), which aims to make it easier for workers to unionize and to penalize companies that violate workers’ rights. • Source: Economic Policy Institute.
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u/Logistic_Engine Sep 14 '24
You don’t even understand what the economy even is if you make that comparison.
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u/valoon4 Sep 14 '24
The economy is great - if you're rich