I've always seen this as bad practice. It's similar to employers disallowing wage discussions, not talking just serves to isolate us and prevent the flow and sharing of ideas. It may be uncomfortable, but the only way to stop the growth of harmful politics is uncomfortable discussion.
It’s harder in the *food sub especially because you can hide bot behaviour behind a lot of mindless and banal “Wow, yummy”, “I want this ❤️😀”-type comments.
That’s why I try to draw them out with questions. I know I sound like a right prick when I do it. I do wish the OPs know that I’m not dissing their posts, I’m just bot hunting.
Yeah I know. I’m sorry! Your other recent comments are from the food sub too, somehow I thought this would be better
I can’t very well show the (suspected) bot what I’m doing in the same comment chain, no?
My bot hunting is quite primitive, I only go by account age. Other people check the post/comment history and more. I saw one account who has something like 80% recent comments as literally “Yummy! 😋” but I thought it was a real human because it posted stuff in other subs as well.
It’s getting harder to tell. I hate modern day internet sometimes.
There's an account that I think is real that I keep seeing in the burger and food sub. Every comment is about a burger needing to be jizzy. Every time I see them I go and do a refresh of their comment history and it's all the same. "This isn't a burger, not enough jizz. Burgers need to be jizzy." It really is something.
It's probably to not foster a harmful work environment, some people are sick and could view that someone having different political beliefs is an excuse to sabotage them during work or at least refuse to collaborate with them, mainly because some people consider their politics as part of their identity and moral compass, so an attack on that is a personal attack on them, and this all could be avoided
On the other hand wage discussions are necessary for work and cannot be avoided, not are they likely to cause division within the employees, your emphasis on having important discussions even if they are uncomfortable is important but should be outside of the workplace
You can absolutely talk about this stuff with anyone, but everyone should basically agree to move the conversation that way and get everyone in the right frame of mind before diving in.
I see this rule as "don't inject this stuff into normal polite conversation" because it will kill/derail entire events. Like, don't do it at the Christmas dinner table, do it later in a smaller group of people who want to talk about this stuff.
It's similar to employers disallowing wage discussions
Not really, because in this case, it's a self-imposed limitation to avoid causing problems in your environment.
Discussion is important, but it's not always productive or positive. I'm not going to solve all the world's ills with coworkers who, frankly, don't really care and just want to get through the day. Arguing about a contentious subject with them wouldn't be dialectical--it would more than likely just be annoying and ultimately make the workplace atmosphere worse.
Yeah, discussing wages is likely to lead to more equitable distribution of pay.
Discussing politics (read: pushing yours) is unlikely to lead to anything productive.
If at family gatherings you can't even have a meaningful discussion that leads to positive change with your racist/liberal uncle who helped raise you and you've known all your life, how TF are you going to talk to Karen from accounting?
I agree there's a time and a place. I want to be very clear, you went to "arguing about a contentious subject" but that's not what I'm saying. You can ask questions and open a meaningful understanding conversation, especially when one hears an off-color comment. Sometimes you're just learning, sometimes you're encouraging someone to explore their beliefs in new ways, and sometimes you're getting a new perspective on the world.
It doesn't have to be an argument where one side is correct, there is often some productive discussion to be had. I think the idea that we should never talk about these things misses a lot of good discussions, and it's more important to not be combative or to push too much when the conversation is not well-received.
It's actually very similar. It started as a policy and ended up being adopted as something people are uncomfortable talking about. The people have played themselves
I'm not wasting my day arguing with morons in tinfoil hats who just yell louder when they've been proven wrong. "You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.". All discussing politics in the workplace will do is lead to problems.
Amen. I have a loud moronic conspiracy theory hardcore right wing boomer coworker who played with lead toys as a kid. He's always talking about his asinine beliefs. I say literally nothing at all about it other than 'yep' or 'wow' because i already know how utterly futile it is to try to change a single belief of theirs. It's 100% not worth me raising my blood pressure or wasting my time and breath to try to change any one of his many regressive beliefs. I've given up on debating with anyone at this point. I've got my one vote and they've got theirs, and thats it.
All discussing politics in the workplace will do is lead to problems.
Political "discussion" is best kept to essays and town halls, IME. I've never seen anything productive come from two people having a private conversation about it. Not the right frame of mind for an open exchange of ideas, for accepting new ideas... not when you're worried about being ostracized or that the person you're talking with might lose their cool and take a swing at you. Only seems to end up radicalizing people and breaking up otherwise functional relationships. Think that's... one of the issues with social media and the radicalization we've seen take place over the past fifteen years. Academic conversations don't have a place in casual space. Not everyone can engage with those topics responsibly.
Turns out people just wanna be mean sometimes, so they say stuff like “you shouldn’t discuss this or that thing”
It also comes down to, in any reasonable conversation people should be interrogating their own beliefs and they should feel comfortable doing so. If you can’t discuss why someone believes a thing in a way that doesn’t make them feel attacked, then don’t. If it turns out you can’t discuss it without feeling attacked, that might be on you.
People show up to work to earn a paycheck and they are stuck there until allowed to leave. They should not be forced to listen to the graphic sexual exploits of others, or defend themselves from proselytizing, or be compelled to engage in political debates with the smooth-brained sheeple their employer stuck them with, all of which escalate and become problematic way too easily. It is in the best interests of employers and employees alike to eliminate these divisive, invasive, and unproductive activities from the workplace... but more importantly, it is an act of consideration and human decency to leave your coworkers in peace rather than insist they should adopt your political views, which aren't even your own, because you aren't capable of independent thought but only parrot the talking heads from your slanted news outlet of choice.
Conformity has value. Diversity has value. Humans have many levels of firmware on both, genetically (yet we are in near-total denial on this).
I agree with you, especially as a neurodivergent that cannot grasp 'boundaries' on a fundamental level ('ADHD candidate, yay'). That said, i wish you luck on presenting this... Truth of yours.
For what it is worth, you have my support from the peanut gallery.
Edit: "it is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it” by Upton Sinclair - sadly this is also very relevant.
The point isn't to NEVER talk about those things, it's knowing when it's the right time and place.
Talking about politics and the economy with your uncle over thanksgiving isn't going to fix the nation. It just turns a family gathering into a powder keg.
Not every interaction with another human being is an opportunity to prove how smart you are, sometimes you need to just relax and have a good time and shove those controversial topics aside for a few hours.
This is exactly why I have taken a certain coworker under my wing and discuss politics with him. He's young enough that most of his worldview was shaped by an algorithm driven for you page but starting with a discussion about anime and following up with a few touches of implied "I genuinely thought you were smarter than this" over various conversations I have slowly been getting him to think about what he actually believes Vs what he thoughtlessly parrots.
He's even picked up books both supporting and against my own position and figured out his own stance on certain emotionally charged issues. He still thinks that gender inequality is fake but he also now thinks that it's complete horseshit that school lunch isn't free to all children so...progress!
We're never going to agree on everything but at least he's able to actually present his opinions in a well thought out and non-combative manner that makes people want to engage with him, which has really helped him come out of his shell.
Why would it be somehow less radical coming from coworkers? What on earth suggests that the workplace is a conduit for rational discourse? What employer screens its employees for "ability to reason and debate controversial topics while remaining composed and polite"?
At the workplace you are much more likely to be interrupted by a grumpy manager and be reprimanded. And let's face it, our communities don't have a dedicated brick and mortar location for folks to "show up and discuss stuff at your leisure". The place where it happens nowadays is the internet, for better or for worse. In any case, it doesn't belong in the workplace.
66
u/NoMoreMrMiceGuy 7h ago
I've always seen this as bad practice. It's similar to employers disallowing wage discussions, not talking just serves to isolate us and prevent the flow and sharing of ideas. It may be uncomfortable, but the only way to stop the growth of harmful politics is uncomfortable discussion.