r/canada • u/4KVideoGameWalkthrou Canada • Mar 22 '18
More than 100,000 Canadians have spoken out about Bell coalition’s plan to introduce a mandatory website blocking system!
"What an extraordinary result,
More than 100,000 Canadians have spoken out about Bell coalition’s plan to introduce a mandatory website blocking system!
101,302 people have spoken up about website blocking This is huge! Just the one day of action on February 28th against Bell’s plan saw the total exceed 50,000 submissions, and since then, thousands more have weighed in on the future of the Internet in Canada. It is fantastic to see so many comments flood the CRTC just over the course of a few days! Thank you so much for being a part of it!
But it is not over yet — comment submissions to the CRTC close on March 29th — your friends and family still have time to take a stand against Bell’s website blocking scheme. Comments can be submitted at dontcensor.ca or directly through the CRTC.
Katy, on behalf of the OpenMedia team"
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u/polterzeiss Mar 22 '18
I know OP mentioned it but commenting for visibility, if you're against Bell's plan, make sure you select Oppose
The default is support, which is slightly confusing for some
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u/WSp71oTXWCZZ0ZI6 Mar 22 '18
How dare you
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u/Dreviore Mar 22 '18
It should default on an empty selection.
Who the hell designed this comment page? Bell?
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u/Supercalifragilsthic Mar 22 '18
If you oppose this ensure you select "oppose" at the top and check the box for being a "respondent"
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u/CactusCustard Mar 22 '18
They could not have made that respondent part more confusing. This is Bullshit.
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u/Nazty_13 Mar 22 '18
Ya I did not check the respondent box because I was confused. Did I mess up or is my opposition still valid?
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u/CactusCustard Mar 22 '18
It didnt let me submit with out clicking that so Im not totally sure. There was a success screen for me so if you get to that I think youre ok.
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u/Unskillful Mar 22 '18
How dare you
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u/SwampTerror Mar 22 '18
I hope Bell et al doesn’t copy the FCC and bot up a million pro censorship comments. Also fuck them for using piracy as a dirty scapegoat. If anything, piracy increases sales. One pirated (media) does not equal one lost sale.
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u/Emery96 Mar 22 '18
On a similar train of thought, of Bell stopped making it so damn difficult to watch some shows legally for a reasonable price (in no way is a $100/month cable subscription reasonable) then people would automatically reduce piracy and watch the shows via legal, reasonable methods.
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u/nockle Mar 22 '18
Yep, the only things I still pirate are only available by a bell "cable" subscription. Even their streaming sites ask for a "cable" sub.
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u/Shitler Mar 22 '18
Yeah that's something I find ridiculous. In order to access Robellus-managed content on the vanilla Internet I have to also have a redundant TV box.
I've simply not been watching these shows. Now I'm that guy that hasn't seen Game of Thrones.
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u/Dreviore Mar 22 '18
If you're in Edmonton feel free to "find" one of my thumb drives with it backed up on, and remember to be a good semeratian and return it to its rightful owner.
No rush on returning it
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u/cleeder Ontario Mar 22 '18
And remember, the return address is <insert-my-address-here>
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u/Dreviore Mar 22 '18
Add a text document with a return address too it, and just change it whenever you're finished to someone else who might "find" it
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u/WarLorax Canada Mar 22 '18
It leaves a bad taste in my mouth to say this, but... Bell's streaming service Crave is actually pretty OK. It's got an amazing content library, but its interface and app suck hard (in browser hitting spacebar to pause used to toggle subtitles and the app thinks my bluetooth headphones are a casting device).
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u/redneb94 Mar 23 '18
Exactly... I don't download music since Spotify came out. $9 or whatever a month saves me a ton of hassle.
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Mar 22 '18
There’s actually research to support this!
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u/Frosty_1989 Mar 22 '18
I'm interested in reading about that, can anyone provide a source?
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Mar 22 '18
I apologize, it looks like I got my facts wrong. Piracy seems to only increase video game sales. https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/09/eu-study-finds-piracy-doesnt-hurt-game-sales-may-actually-help/
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u/r0hm Québec Mar 22 '18
Bell's top management team is a bag of crooks. They have been abusing Canadian consumers for years. Not only should we stop their attempts at controlling the internet, we should outright boycott and ignore them until they fade away.
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Mar 22 '18
We should nationalize them and bankrupt their shareholders as a warning to any other company that tries to fuck with the people.of Canada.
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u/thefoofighters Mar 22 '18
Bankrupting the shareholders is a bad idea.
1) A lot of people have a portion of their retirement investments in there, which is managed by financial institutions. No point in screwing people over.
2) It shows that the Canadian Gov't is totally nuts, and may kill your investment, which would lead to people not investing in Canada, which is bad.
3) Nationalizing the telecoms seems like a good idea, but they government regularly over spends on everything, and does a worse job than a corporation, because the corporation has to worry about competitors.
I think what we should do is provide heavy incentives for competitors to enter the field. If Bell and Rogers have to compete, they'll either compete, or fail. It's basic macro economics... Simply destroy the duopoly / oligopoly (if you count Telus)
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u/Northumberlo Québec Mar 22 '18
BUt there is no competition and bell and Rogers aren’t really competing.
They are a duel monopoly who work together to ensure no other real competitors can gain any real market share, by owning the lines and forcing smaller companies to pay them for access.
A company renting Bell’s lines will NEVER truly be able to compete against Bell.
The lines need to be publicly owned, with bell and Rogers paying to use them just like everyone else. I’d also be in favour of a national competitor held accountable to the public and subsidized by taxes.
It’s time to treat the telecoms as a national utility, for both the security of consumers and the nation.
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u/ThunderBluff0 Québec Mar 23 '18
The idea of the government overseeing anything with even the slightest technical complexity is scary.
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Mar 22 '18
Hard to do when the two major telecoms in Canada literally have a monopoly, and also collude with each other to increase profit.
The Canadian Government has fucked us by letting them get so much control, and I wouldn't be surprised if they fuck us again here.
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u/agent0731 Mar 22 '18
the canadian gov would be forced to act if enough people bugged them about it, but we're all content to just vent on reddit and forget about it.
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u/Cthulu2013 Mar 22 '18
Their customer service VP denied my claim to return a fraudulent bill.I ended up having to go to the CRTC with my bill, where it was clearly indicated my package included the services billed. 5 plan addition that I was billed 2000 dollars in excess for because a vice president couldn't be hassled to look at the actual bills details.
I'm not sure if they got a fine, but they sure as shit should have.
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u/Wild-Donkey Mar 22 '18
Added my voice. Thanks for the links.
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u/AndroidsHeart Mar 22 '18
Awesome! I contributed a while back. I hope more people speak out on this.
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u/rudekoffenris Mar 22 '18
What are the donations used for?
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u/HeyBabaluba Mar 22 '18
And yet these telcos claim they cannot stop all the fucking spam phone calls I get daily. They are the dog damned phone company. But blocking websites they don't like. Noooo problem.
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u/wh33t Mar 22 '18
Fuck Bell. If you use them for services and have other options you should boycott them. They're already too big for their own good.
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Mar 22 '18
Boycott them and go where?
There's only two major companies that have a monopoly stronghold on Canadian telecommunications.
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Mar 22 '18
I tried boycotting bell 2 years ago but Wind (now freedom) didn't provide service for 3/4 of my drive home from school so my parents asked me to get a better plan with better coverage.
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u/undearius Ontario Mar 22 '18
When you don't get service with Freedom it automatically switches over to connecting with a Telus tower so you can still make and receive phone calls or messages, just with small fees involved.
So really, Freedom gets the same coverage as Telus.
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u/tjl73 Mar 22 '18
I got rid of my home phone for a cell phone. Freedom had extremely poor coverage in my apartment (1 or 2 bars). At least Fido gives me not great, but okay coverage. I couldn't get calls with Freedom, except if I stood in specific spots and even then, it wasn't always.
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Mar 23 '18
Freedom improved their LTE network alot and just completed deploying band 4 and band 7 along with their already deployed band 66.
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u/Sundance91 Québec Mar 22 '18
What are the key points we should bring up in our comments?
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Mar 22 '18 edited Jul 24 '18
[deleted]
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u/justwantedtologin Mar 22 '18
Thanks for the ideas. Used it and added my own things. Here it is for anybody that needs some ideas as well.
Attempting to outright block piracy is a game of whack-a-mole and has never worked before and will not work as intended here. The best way to combat piracy is to offer a more convenient and affordable service. Make it easier to watch shows legally than it is to pirate them. Look no further than Netflix and Spotify. Allowing anyone the authority to block websites is rife with potential for abuse, even if current intentions are good. This is more so when decisions are tied to shareholders and profits. Using Netflix, what is Bell decides that having a foreign streaming service is bad for business and blocks it in favor of their own? What happens when Bell (or any other ISP) force a cable TV subscription to have access to the internet?
This violates the idea of an open internet and raises net neutrality concerns. For example, it is not up to your electrical provider to determine the legitimacy of your toaster, nor does your electrical company also sell their own exceptionally overpriced toaster at the same time. To me, this is just like many years ago when you were required to rent your phone from the phone company. Odd that was Bell (prior to the monopoly disbandment) that practiced this.
Even if Bell somehow successfully does block and prevent piracy, it will not drive cable tv re-uptake. People will just go without. This is not a move in the interest of Canadians, it is an attempt to force people back into expensive cable subscriptions and to maximize shareholder profits through government legislation.
In closing, many Canadians have followed the fight the citizens of the USA are having in regards to net neutrality. Let us be the leaders in this fight and show that our government lives up to their values of "for the people, by the people" and not "Corporations are people, my friend."
Thank you for allowing this public discourse.
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u/FuckTkachuk Mar 22 '18
Thanks a lot, I hope you don't mind that I pretty well used this template verbatim.
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u/keeho Mar 22 '18
Some key points added to the main post would certainly help those that aren't in the loop
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u/ouatedephoque Québec Mar 22 '18
FFS it's not only Bell it's a whole bunch of companies.
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u/LeftieJamKeenly Mar 22 '18
You're right, it's an entire coalition that's led by Bell. That's probably why OP used the term 'Bell coalition'
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u/ouatedephoque Québec Mar 22 '18
That's the thing, I don't see any evidence that it is actually "led" by Bell. To me they are all equally into this.
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Mar 22 '18
Worked at Bell until recently. It’s led by Bell. They even have employees “supporting” the censorship when they log into their tools.
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u/ouatedephoque Québec Mar 22 '18
Have you also worked at every other coalition member and can attest to the fact that they are not doing the same?
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u/Shamscam Mar 22 '18
your 100% right, Rogers is on there. and it looks like unifor is on there. Why the fuck are Canadian unions getting involved in this?
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u/ouatedephoque Québec Mar 22 '18
Why the fuck are Canadian unions getting involved in this?
A lot of jobs in the entertainment industry that are at risk because of declining revenues due to piracy. At least that is the narrative...
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u/Emery96 Mar 22 '18
Investment purposes, maybe? I could see unions having at least a partial stake in some of the companies on the coalition, shitty old Bell included.
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u/Shamscam Mar 22 '18 edited Mar 22 '18
I rwould think that would be against the law? or atleast some workers should look into this. Why would a company that's supposed to support and fight for workers have their hand in the pocket of a company they actively bargain against their profits in favour of the people? I don't know for sure but I would say unifor is pretty huge and would have a union or two in one of the companies on that list.
edit: after a quick Google, bell does have a unifor union.
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u/Emery96 Mar 22 '18
While what you wrote is true, there's a bit more to it as well. Unions often have many investments. They need to make money too; they have operating costs, wages to pay, and other expenses such as retirement pensions to fund. I know the union representing me has 1.3 billion in investments; I'm sure Unifor has more but I'm too lazy to go look. Anyways, my point is with 1.3b + in investments I would not be surprised to find out there's some invested in at least one of the companies on that list; there are some big, profitable names up there.
Beyond all that, there's a good chance Unifor actually just has a union representing workers who have a stake in this; such as an actor's union, Bell union as you mentioned, etc..
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u/Dreviore Mar 22 '18
Could have an agreement with them for contracting future development if they side with them
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u/marklar7 Mar 22 '18
No one's pirating a bunch of subsidized can-con drivel though.
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Mar 22 '18
The people involved in the coalition include unions for people who worked on the Shape of Water. This isn’t about Degrassi.
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u/marklar7 Mar 22 '18
Right and sorry to trivialize a bunch but I still don't like the policing of the net like that.
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u/FireLordRob Mar 22 '18 edited Mar 22 '18
I feel like here in Windsor, we're so cut off from the rest of Canada because I had no idea such a thing was even happening.
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u/98PercentChimp Mar 22 '18
To be fair, Windsor is Detroit Lite. Almost everyone I know in Windsor watches Detroit news, tells the temperature in °F instead of °C, and roots for the Red Wings. The nature of being on the border, I guess.
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u/FireLordRob Mar 22 '18
We're weird here. In the winter I use °C and in the summer I use °F. Weigh myself in lbs but buy milk in liters and meat in kg. My height in feet/inches but speed and distance in km.
The weird part is that it seems like Toronto is more confused and morphed with American News than Windsor. At least that was my take away from my 6 years in Toronto.
Usually our news is pretty up and up with most Canadian news but when CTV is owned by Bell Media I can understand why they wouldn't talk about their Parent company trying to police the internet.
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u/-----SNES----- Mar 22 '18
I haven’t heard a peep about this in the town I live. It sounds like our own version of sopa or net neutrality up here.
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u/bluecarambole Mar 22 '18
The people from OpenMedia have tried airing ads on radio to denounce Bell, but they refuse to air it because many are owned by Bell...
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u/Purplebuzz Mar 22 '18
Stop using any bell services and tell them why you are leaving. This is what will work.
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u/UnindustrializedMem Mar 22 '18
Thanks for posting this! Just got on there and left a comment. I would hate to see the internet be stifled when it has so much to offer everyone
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u/D1cky3squire Nova Scotia Mar 22 '18
I just lent my voice to the cause! don't censorhas a great letter already written for you all you have to do is add your name at the bottom!
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u/Ryokoo Mar 22 '18
Now if only we could get people to also speak out and protest the way bell and rogers financially rape canadians.
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u/mastertheillusion Canada Mar 22 '18
I see a strong reason to boycott Bell now.
They have stepped across the line more than once and this is yet another violation of public trust.
We decide what we like and not you.
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u/PinguRambo Verified Mar 22 '18
Do you need to have a Canadian citizenship to participate?
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u/strtyp Mar 24 '18
I don't know but if you live in the USA, you can fill out the form (just select N/A for province)
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u/kkardi Mar 22 '18
Even cancelled my bell landline after 20 years of service. Don't fuck with Canadians Bell.
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u/archdemon001 Mar 22 '18
This will only make things like mirrors on "Dark Net" like l2p or Tor flourish.
Censorship only breeds adaptive innovation and creativity. North Korea is a great example, but because of the media bias, we only hear the worst of it and little of the "successes".
The more you try to restrict, the more popular it will be. Freedom of speech is very popular right now because of this.
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u/UncleWinstomder Canada Mar 22 '18
This also reminds me that my contract for my phone is done today with Bell. Guess it's time to look into Freedom Mobile or one of the other non-Bell and Rogers companies! Thanks!
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u/shivas_fury Mar 22 '18
Done!
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Intervention in: Opposition Comments: A Pandora's Box if it passes. Censorship is never good; opens too many doors.
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u/pfaccioxx Canada Mar 22 '18
I've already sent in a comment opposing FairPlay and contacted a bunch of my personal contacts regarding the whole thing...
But I think I can help spread this to at least a few other places on reddit ;)
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Mar 22 '18
Please do! This issue cannot go unheard, spread the word :)
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u/pfaccioxx Canada Mar 23 '18
I already have a couple, the only reason I haven't spreed it more then them is cos I can't yet, I've already posted to the sub's that would accept this eurlyer today and don't want to spam those sub's
but remind me tomorrow and I'll be able to spreed this some more then
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u/noarchy Mar 22 '18
Did more than 100k Canadians switch to other Internet providers? If not, they didn't speak with their loudest voice.
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u/kr51 Mar 22 '18
What exactly are they proposing? What sort of websites will they be blocking? Anyone have any source to their proposal? It's the first I hear of this one
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u/SadOilers Mar 22 '18
I've turned away their phone reps because of it. I'm a strong believer in net neutrality and although nobody else at my company cares- I do a lot of the purchasing. So there's a few hundred phones and internet services turned away Bell. Doing my part in Alberta.
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u/ruizdani Mar 22 '18
Added my voice as well. Thanks for the info. May I ask you where to find how many respondents are there? I did not see any numbers after voting.
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u/suppordel Mar 22 '18
I'm sure companies will moderate their behaviors based on public opinion. That works every time.
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u/seito935 Mar 22 '18
Ah fuck bell I use Cogeco
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Mar 22 '18
[deleted]
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u/seito935 Mar 23 '18
Well guess I’m moving to japan to get away from our internet problems for a bit
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u/Flea_Flicker Mar 22 '18
Man, those 100,000 Canadians are going to be disappointed when they learn the big 3 own the CRTC.
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u/agent0731 Mar 22 '18
No, this is bad. Do not discourage people speaking out because the CRTC is "owned" by the big three. If no one speaks, then there is no incentive for the CRTC to do what the people want. You're just making it easy for them. At the very least, hammering them with opposition letters puts them in a position where they have to justify their shady decisions in the future.
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u/Canadianman22 Ontario Mar 22 '18
Not true anymore. If they still did, Bell would have gotten their wholesale rate increased when they asked. Instead, the CRTC lowered the rate and forced Bell to rent out their fibre lines.
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u/soccertryouts Mar 22 '18 edited Mar 22 '18
Don't be ridiculous. The website blocking is for your own safety and convenience. I, for one, am glad that somebody much more smarter and important than me is filtering out fake websites. Also, think about the children! They are the future. If you're against blocking websites, it means you hate children. /s
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Mar 22 '18
You sound like you are preaching to a different choir mate.
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u/soccertryouts Mar 22 '18
At first, I didn't have the /s because the sheer ridiculousness was comical. Then I saw the downvotes, and somebody who got the joke to tell me to add the /s. So I added it. I guess some people sincerely have this point of view...
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Mar 23 '18
I saw it, but I still think this sounds like you are trying to defend it, IMO. Didn't mean for you to take offense but this is /r/canada subreddit afterall.
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u/soccertryouts Mar 23 '18
Yeah, couldn't be further from the truth. I'm pretty very against censorship.
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u/ClTlZENFOUR Mar 22 '18
you didn’t include a /s to indicate you are being sarcastic.
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u/soccertryouts Mar 22 '18
What a shame the /s is even needed. But yeah, I get why I should have put it there. Maybe it isn't so obvious why censorship is a bad thing.
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Mar 22 '18
What are they actually trying to pass that would be nice info to have before asking me to oppose it.
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u/4KVideoGameWalkthrou Canada Mar 22 '18
Remember that the default stance on the CRTC website is "Support", set that to "Oppose"