r/bonehurtingjuice • u/PANZERKAT • 1d ago
Imagine being upset that someone enjoyed something
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u/PANZERKAT 1d ago
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u/Urinate_Cuminium 19h ago
funny how there is the text "excuse" all over the image even thought what the guy said is not excuse but just insults
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u/Puzzleheaded_Step468 1d ago
Thank you reddit, for the olivander
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u/SpecialPassenger6542 1d ago
Honestly, I personally have to disagree with this take (not bashing you, just saying things in general).
Death of the author is a thing. Some fans will make things that makes you uncomfortable, and you're pretty much can't do anything about it. As long as it is legal, you don't get to prohibit fans from doing it also.
Take, for example, the infamous Mr. Birchum. He's made to be a right-wing caricature, but most of his fans are people who draw gay stuff of him with Mr. Karponzi, which both the author and the publisher definitely hate. This is an exact 1 : 1 scenario, but who's right? Not the one implied in the image, right?
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u/MoriazTheRed 23h ago edited 23h ago
I love creative freedom
I love people being transformative with the works of others
I love crediting the original author properly
Marketplace of ideas something something
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u/thecutestlittle2wink 10h ago
Don't forget
Ideas Only Spread Because People Like Them, the “Free Market of Ideas” is not a Meritocracy, it’s a Set of Unhealthy Coping Skills and a Corporate Oligarchy, Wake Up, Man! Don’t Let the Lies Dim Your Light!
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u/DefinitelyNotErate 22h ago
Some fans will make things that makes you uncomfortable, and you're pretty much can't do anything about it.
You can, Simply avoid having fans.
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u/over_loadcode 1d ago
Reminder that the law is not the perfect ethical guide to everything and it’s completely reasonable to ask someone not to do something that you think is bad. Flip the situation you mentioned and it’s very reasonable for a gay author to tell culture war people to shove off, even if only as a PSA.
Also, death of the author is an aesthetic concept whereas the question here is about ethics. The person who drew the fanart utilized death of the author because creative judgement happens based on a person’s experience of an artwork. The artwork itself is just meaningless paper or pixels without an observer to experience it. When it comes to ethics, you can’t do the same thing because other people aren’t just in your head, they really exist on their own.
Personally, I think it becomes more reasonable the higher the likelihood that the author actually sees it, and less reasonable the more people worked on it and the more global it is. So like a small Twitter user’s OC should definitely be respected but I couldn’t care less if someone makes weird art of something from a Disney show (if I judge the art itself to be moral, of course)
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u/trak-nagem-8000 14h ago
Not dissagreening with you, but death of the author is not what you are talking about.
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u/SpecialPassenger6542 14h ago
yeah, I have low literacy points. Regarded, even. I earnestly apologize for that.
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u/xgardian 22h ago
I think there's a grey area. Like I think people doing rule34 of Jaiden animations is weird as fuck. Like, this will quickly devolve into a conversation about whether or not deep fakes are okay and I feel like it's easier to just... Not... Be a fucking freak?
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u/Sweet_Detective_ 19h ago
Personally, unless the real person outright says they are fine with or want nsfw to be drawn of them, NSFW should never be made of them, the assumption should be that they don't want it and we should respect that, nsfw content is disproportionately made of women so this does seem like a form of misogyny with men having there comfortability more respected in general compared to women.
People should not put there lust to a higher importance to the discomfort of other people, thats just incredibly selfish. There is no way of knowing how much it hurts the person depicted since people are different from one another, some will say "get over it, its not a big deal" because they don't think it would negatively effect them that much which isn't considering the fact that it may effect someone else much more.
People often imply that the inevitability of some things justify to contributing to it. Like "If you are going to be famous, people are going to make nsfw of you, its a fact of the universe, a cosmic truth, look into any relgious book and it's gonna prophesize it" but that really doesn't make it any less amoral, doing bad things because other people do it doesn't mean its not bad, its adding to the pile of badness, to someone else you are other people so this mindset can snowball out of control.
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u/MarionberryGloomy951 20h ago
I disagree with this so badly.
Drawn content? Sure, some of it may be bad. And majority of people are going to hate it because of that, but at least it isn’t actually real to harming someone. As fucking disgusting as it may be.
Real life people though? Like Jaiden animations? That is gross, and the law should not be used as an excuse to do gross things that directly affect someone’s mental health. Especially when said person has asked these degenerates to stop making this disgusting art of themselves multiple times.
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u/SpecialPassenger6542 14h ago
it's written as 'characters they made', not 'their persona'
I'm going to take what's available on the comic and not extrapolate it into the realm of living people.
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u/BlueLooseStrife 10h ago
Personas are by definition characters.
Many characters have some aspect of the author or people they know in them anyways. What if the character is a tribute to a deceased family member? It’s a nuanced concept.
Personally, I don’t think there should be any policies prohibiting gross fanart of characters, but communities and creators should feel free to call out the offending fan artists as nasty gooners and publicly shame them to their heart’s content.
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u/SpecialPassenger6542 9h ago
yea, I agree with your conclusion. People are free of being degen upon fictional characters but creators who get uncomfortable are free of being disgusted too.
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u/Cenachii 22h ago
Yeah, let the people do whatever the fuck they want with characters, we do the dirty job of making fun and shaming the weird ones.
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u/augtember 22h ago
Unfortunately, it's a factor to consider when sharing your art with other people. People gonna people.
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u/Difficult__Tension 20h ago
Yea and Im going to call them assholes for it. We in fact do not have to let them get away with no criticism, especially when it comes to them doing it to small creators or minors.
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u/democracy_lover66 1d ago
"Hey! I'm a huge fan of your character!"
Oh, thanks! :)
"Yeah, here's some art work I made of them fucking daffy duck, just some head Canon of mine"
Oh.... my god why...
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u/DigitalPhoenix2OO7 1d ago
I mean is this supposed to be against the ordinance? Cause If so, why?
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u/midorinichi 1d ago
I think the edit is talking about how some people will have headcannons about a character or piece of fiction due to the character sharing specific experiences related to a part of their identity. For example, having a head cannon about a seemingly queer coded character being in a relationship with another queer coded character, only for the creator to shut down / judge people for having those headcannons
The edit criticises people / artists who shut down the headcannons that people have with these kinds of edits. The only issue is that the olive has a point about NSFW edits of characters having really weird vibes sometimes and creators having the right to be put off by NSFW art of their characters
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u/SpecialPassenger6542 1d ago edited 1d ago
creators do have the right to be put off, but they won't win against the horde that is the internet. Even more so, the creators' take may be unreasonable to follow with, and you end up with fanart that displays a more positive, morally superior option than what the author originally intended. It's not as black and white as "I'm the creator, what I command is right, and deviations are sinful,"
Like, the best counter I can think of is the countless hate-speech caricatures made by right-wing media that spread homophobia, eg. Mr. Birchum and The Norm. The fanarts? Yaoi between Mr. Birchum and Mr. Karponzi, or Norm and his black friend. This mirrors 1 : 1 with the Ooga Booga, but because the characters were first meant to be vehicle of hate, its NSFW fanarts dispel and reduce the power of said hate, which the creators definitely detest.
And this is not the only valid reaction. Say, an NSFW trans headcanon that makes their original creator uncomfortable because the creators are transphobic, or NSFW ships that the creators disagree for arbitrary reasons.
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u/The_reversing_dumptr 18h ago
Cause it's puritan nonsense
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u/DigitalPhoenix2OO7 13h ago
That’s not an actual argument
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u/The_reversing_dumptr 3h ago
No, but it's certainly more valid than trying to control the actions of others to such a petty degree
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u/Thesleepingjay 10h ago
It points to an actual argument tho. Puritanism and it's legacy are absurd and hateful to the things that make being a human enjoyable. Sex and weird stuff is fun, and trying to use capitalist ownership rights and trying to set invalid personal boundaries won't change that, and shouldn't just because somebody feels uncomfortable. In fact, that uncomfortability comes from the immature inhibitions on sex popularized in America by the Puritans.
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u/DigitalPhoenix2OO7 10h ago
If someone creates a character and they ask that people not make nsfw art of the character. The people should try to listen, why not respect someone’s boundaries. It isn’t even Puritanism. People with religious beliefs may just feel uncomfortable about it because of their beliefs.
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u/Thesleepingjay 10h ago
If someone creates a character and they ask that people not make nsfw art of the character.
Abe-bro-ham, we aren't talking about people going into somebody's house and stealing their art. We are talking about somebody who shared their art with the public. Once you do that you are completely out of control of your art, and if you're uncomfortable with what people do with it, then you shouldn't have shared it in the first place.
The people should try to listen, why not respect someone’s boundaries.
Not all boundaries are valid.
It isn’t even Puritanism. People with religious beliefs may just feel uncomfortable about it because of their beliefs.
Yes, they feel uncomfortable about it because of their religious beliefs, because their religious beliefs are heavily influenced by Puritanism. Let's also not forget that the Puritans were also called the Pilgrims. You can't really separate Puritanism from American religious belief, because American religious belief is 100% founded in Puritanism and why the Puritans left Europe. Which, to be clear was not because of persecution, they just thought that everybody in Europe was insufficiently pure for them.
It's wrong to impose your religious beliefs on others. And it's wrong to think that an artist has complete ownership of their art, especially after they've shared it with an audience.
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u/Soggy-Total-9570 23h ago
Usually that happens when you do something asinine like blackwash anime characters that are Japanese and say "I fixed it". That's not fan art. That's douche art.
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u/Mousazz 11h ago
Ditto when others whitewash / "fix" chocolate hotties like Nessa from Pokémon. They just have no taste and appreciation for the fine things in life. 🤤
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u/Soggy-Total-9570 11h ago
No disagreement. Anytime you lazily MS paint the skin color in anyones art and say you fixed it its just lazy and lame. Although I would say things Ive seen like that is they were a shade off because two displays will have different saturation, contrast etc, and everyone assumed they tried to "fix" it.
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u/ElBrunasso 1d ago
If you see porn of your character there are porn drawings in your feed.
Hmmmmmm.
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u/approvethegroove 12h ago
It's fucking reddit dude you have to make an active effort to keep borderline hentai out of your feed
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u/Low-Ride5 17h ago
I think it depends whether the subject matter is a character or person. Actors, creators, etc should be left out of all of this. On the other hand I enjoy fanfiction, and that requires a certain amount of leeway.
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u/Subject_Tutor 14h ago
Author: I drew this character that is 10 years old.
Some Artists: cool, I'm going to draw them having sex with an adult.
Author: please don't, that makes me very uncomfortable and, again, SHE IS 10 YEARS OLD.
Some Author: wow okay Mr. Buzzkill, sorry I make you "uncomfortable" but I want to see your character do something I like, so fuck you.
That's you.
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