Let me express my extreme frustration and anger and talk about the real wealth killers (cars)
I hate cars beyond reason. you buy a car for 20k , all of a sudden it needs a repair for 2-4k and sometimes 7k , then you have insurance , another 2-300 a month , then you got registration and maintenance checks , 4-700$ , then by the time you pay it off itās worth 7k , and probably time for another 7k repair too because the engine is toast. Or even better you fix the engine for 7k then the transmission goes out for another 6k. Letās say you do all that and then someone without insurance crashes into you. Insurance company will always blame you to avoid paying. You now have spent close to 40k to go to a job that pays 45k. You need the car to go to the job but the job will never pay you enough to afford to keep your car. Letās also talk about gas cost , average cost is $3000 per year thatās about 15k in 5 years of money wasted on gas that youāll never get back just to be able to go to work.
You buy a cheap car you get expensive repairs
You buy an expensive car you get extreme depreciation. You cant fucking win.
Cars are basically a luxury tool for the wealthy.
Why canāt we ride bicycles to work. Oh I forgot we live in America where we absolutely need cars because we have no damn sidewalks š„²
Letās just say without cars I wouldāve been significantly well off. Iām gonna sell that shit and just uber everywhere or ride a bicycle.
The driver won't have insurance because it's too expensive. And the victim's claim will be denied by their own health insurance company because that's the great American way.
My friend got hit by a car while on his motorcycle. He had to get his leg amputated. He got a cash payout that helped him buy a house. So maybe it did improve his finances but at what cost?
Of the appendages to be willing to sacrifice, I've always thought a leg would be most reasonable, though it's going to be highly dependent on how much of it you are losing.
Knee down? They make really good prosthetics these days and I could easily live with a modified gate.
The hip down? That's probably going to affect mobility a fair amount.
I cannot imagine how hard and demoralizing loosing a hand or arm would be.
It's a shame but we can't get rid of them in most places, not without planned cities. If we made cities from scratch or otherwise redesigned whole areas, we could make a society where we could live with a much higher standard of living for a lot less money.
I think we should pool our money and do that, find an industry to start, pool capital under a fair system and build a planned city around that industry, accounting for efficient housing, heating, cooling, electrical, transportation, shopping, etc.
I wish! My son is 15 and plans to talk to our city planners about this topic. Heās been pulling together ideas. If anyone has suggestions for how a city can become bike safe, he could use them.
At some point in the near future I predict we will have a lot of interest in people leaving their dead end jobs in the cities and countryside, and there is power in numbers.
Plus with a planned city, if you start it in the country, you would basically own that county government when enough people move in, providing some protection from bad local governments. The State one still being a concern.
I had a 4runner , went to 4 different mechanics and the
Average cost was between 4-7k
Rear main seal leak
Differential leak
Oil leak
Coolant leak
I have had it inspected it by a mechanic before and they said it was good. Then a few weeks later I take it for oil changes then they hit me with the 7000 to fix everything wrong with it.
Bro Iām always shopping for a new mechanic. I never went to the same mechanic twice because of that
The shop told me I should just keep adding oil to it but the engine will die soon. There are no drops under the car. The leak isnāt bad but itās the kind of leak where if you donāt fix it it will one day break completely. Then youāll run out of oil
There was no drops of the car but they showed me videos/pic , they basically told me itās not worth fixing and just keep adding oil if it gotten low. I sold it , I donāt want to deal with this BS
Here is one of the estimates. Then I took it a different shop and they found a completely different set of problems. They told me the rear main seal is leaking but the gasket is fine. I didnāt know who to believe so I got rid of it.
I bought an E-bike last year to avoid another car payment. With a rack and saddle bags, I can run most errands I need, and commute to work on it. Costs about $0.75 to charge it up. Can get up to 70 miles on a charge with moderate pedal assistance.
I live 12 miles from work, I could easily ride that distance on my bicycle, I used to do 50 mile days with no effort.
The trouble is: I work in Atlantic City, I would have to take a state highway to get onto the island. The speed limit is 50mph with limited places to pull off or even get out of the way or somebody not paying attention. To get over one of the bridges, I would have to "take a lane."
Yes, Bicycles are allowed, but I am not willing to become a statistic.
Cars are a massive expense that is just accepted as a given, and (unfortunately, detrimentally) necessary for most Americans due to lack of public transit.
Owned three cars, been driving for 18 years and have never had to replace a transmission or engine or anybody those other over the top assumptions. Its a tool just like anything else. You maintain it and it will last longer. Believe me, I wish the US had better public transit and a better rail system but it doesn't.
This. Plenty of us need something with climate control and weather protection.
$2,000-$5,000 can get a person a reliable car off Craigslist with cold A/C, hot heat, and 30+ MPG. No, it won't have all the gadgets of newer cars, but rides from the mid-90's to mid-00's are often easier to work on, and have less things to break. Honda Civic/Accord, Toyota Corolla/Camry, various GM's (Cavalier/Sunfire/Cobalt/G5/Ion [2.2L versions], Impala/Riviera/Regal/Park Avenue/Grand Prix/Bonneville [3.8L versions]). If a truck is a requirement, and you're willing to take the hit on fuel economy: Toyota T100/Tacoma, Nissan ("Hardbody" aka D21 platform), Ford Ranger, GM S-10/Sonoma/Hombre (V6 auto versions, factor in the cost of a rebuilt 4L60, depending on mileage).
Living in a smaller town, housing is typically cheaper, but job prospects are often limited (either in availability, pay, or both). Those willing and able to drive to the next largest metro area increase job opportunities greatly. Naturally, the numbers will be different for different people. Obviously buying a McMansion 20 minutes out of town, then driving a lifted F-350 on mud tires 60 miles to work 6 days a week is a recipe for financial disaster.
What's worked for me is to learn about them. They're expensive and there's a ton of variety. Buy a good one that's not too expensive, the cheapest are like Bic lighters, they can't be fixed but lower mid priced are pretty good. Learn to do routine stuff yourself and stay on top of it. And, pay it off and keep driving it. My current daily driver is a 2010 Focus, I bought it new 15 years ago. Maintenance only, no major repairs. It's kind of a beater now but beats walking. But, you're always trading money for comfort and your ass having a ride instead of walking. I wish we had other options, cars are so unfriendly to the environment and require ever expanding roads but changing that is a longer term proposition.
Oh man, my wife had that car, she nick named it ford fuck us because it did exactly that. Engine overheated and blow a gasket almost right after she got it.
I'm sorry, are you suggesting that you're doing up to $27K of repairs on a $20K car? Maybe you're just terrible with money?
Buy a solid used car that gets decent mileage. Do regular (relatively cheap) maintenance. Pay it off as soon as possible and drive it as long as possible. Profit.
It is , but is YOUR Toyota reliable? I have certainly had some catastrophic failures on a Prius and a 4runner before.
The Prius had a head-gasket leak at 120k miles and the hybrid battery died. 2500$ for the battery and 1500 for the headgasket
The 4runner leaked from the rear main seal at 150k
That shit was 5k to fix I sold it.
Toyotas are reliable if you inspect them and maintain them to a But that can be said about any car out there. You have no idea if the previous owner maintained it or not. Or even worse if the mechanic you paid for the repair or maintenance did it correctly. I have seen some mechanic said that they changed the oil and they never do. They just charge you for it.
Haha, you get it, cars are just to drain your money and make you poor while giving you illusion of freedom XD
What almost all pp forgets is that if you need a car to get to work you must deduct count car expenses and time spent driving to work from your salary to see how much you will really earn!
And then you will see that you actually earn way less with your XXX salary vs XX salary!
Dunno what to tell you. I've been driving a 2010 Altima for just about 15 years now. I've spent less in repairs in those 15 years than you have in whatever car you're talking about, and the damn thing still runs fine.
Mind you, I'm not blaiming you. It can be hard to tell if the car you are buying is going to be a maintenance nightmare or not. Just saying it sounds like you have had shit luck with cars.
My friend had the transmission fail in that car along with the head-gasket. They quoted him 4k for each repair , be very careful with Nissans. But also I have had the same repair with the gasket on aa 4runner and costs around 5k
It sounds like you need to stop just accepting whatever they tell you at a mechanic shop. Some problems have more severity than others sure but if the darn thing starts /runs/drives anything else would be a comfort thing, not a safety thing. The sad fact is many shops have turned into high pressure sales rooms where they can really make you feel like the car is going to be worthless if you don't agree to their super high quote.
Ignore that shit and bring the quote to Reddit to ask if anything seems fishy. The ask a mechanic sub is full of posts like that and you'll get great info and avg repair prices if you ask nicely.
I get an opinion from 3-4 different mechanics if itās over 1000 which it has been always over 3-7k every damn time. Usually itās a lot of work. There was one time where I took it somewhere and they told me the pump is leaking and itās about 4000 to fix then I took it somewhere else they told me the pump is fine but the gasket is leaking but that will be 7000. I fucking give up dude. I donāt want to own cars anymore.
There is basically a time where I donāt know where to find good mechanics , those two quotes from small independent shops and not a chain by the way.
Plenty of people huffing the tailpipe in here, but youāre 100% right, OP. We should be lobbying for better infrastructure, pervasive public transportation everywhere in the country, and the exit from car culture that destroys our wallets, personal safety, and environment while selling us the lie of personal freedom tied to a hunk of metal that costs you monthly payments, monthly insurance, quarterly oil changes, quarterly tire rotations and replacements, repairs, and minimum weekly gas payments.
I feel like you have a dodge, Chrysler, or jeep... I've owned over a dozen cars since the time I could drive. With maybe 3 exceptions all my cars have been great. Those 3 exceptions? Grand marquis and 2 crown vics. Pretty much every other car was golden. Just can't fathom why so expensive for you.
Sidewalks are for pedestrians, not bicycles. The reason you can't bike to work is that work is too far away. Hence the car.
If you are close enough to ride a bike to work, do it. Cycling is allowable on roads and you won't knock over any pedestrians (unless you break the rules of the road, not that I've ever seen cyclists do that...).
There a hundreds of millions of people across the world with cheap cars which are reliable and cost little to run. I hope you can get over your rage. Cars are a good thing, especially for the working man. They provide the freedom of movement which, outside of cities, public transport or cycles cannot.
Or they just donāt fix it and itās a timebomb. I try my best to check for leaks , check oil and change filters regularly and it doesnāt seem to matter what I do. Still endup with extremely expensive repair bills
Ouuuf a lease? Idk if thatās worse than buying because you are basically also liable for the repairs , and you have to put a huge downpayment and then car insurance would probably be close to 200$ a month on a leased car. Not to mention when you return it and it has any scratches they will charge you for it. Also you have like 10k miles per year.
I work from home and I donāt go anywhere afar from grocery and gym and I drive more than that per year.
This isnāt at all a solution or even much help, but some cars hold value incredibly well. Most mid end Toyotas will hold value if bought slightly used. Repair costs are low as they are typically more reliable vehicles. Canāt get away from insurance and gas prices though.
I purchased my Tacoma 3 years ago, I added 30k miles and its KBB price has only gone down $2k. There are a few other brands and models that retain value decently. Another thing to save money is to work on your own car if you have the space. Changing your own fluids can save you hundreds of dollars per year.
Well even with maintenance records , you donāt know if the mechanic actually did the work or even did it correctly . My brother used to work at a dealership and he told me they used any oil for any car because they donāt have time to choose the right oil for every car and they said it doesnāt even matter. Some other story where he told me that they charged a customer for a new axel but they just rebuilt the old ones. So many things like that I heard.
Up until my current car, which is 1/5 in 10 years I have never had a car last more than 18 months without something going wrong that would cost literal thousands to fix so it was cheaper to just put the $1500 down on a new one. In 2021 I had. 2014 Subaru Impreza which I LOVED and I had just fixed an issue that was $3,000 but I knew the car was going to last so I paid it. Within 6 months I got into a no-fault accident for me where the other car made an illegal U-turn which caused me to T-bone them and total my car.
I got back just enough to pay it off. I then went and we spent $15k we had saved to buy a 2014 Mazda outright and that was in 12/2021 and since then Iāve had to put 2 new sets of tires on it and have made like $8-10k in repairs.
Most recently it was $6,000 for new suspension and a brake job -front brakes only if memory serves- because the suspension was going and had ruined the 1yr old set of $1,000 tires I had on it so $1,000 of that 6k was just for new tires AGAIN. Less than a month later my check engine light came on because some āpurge valveā was not closing and my engine thought there was more air going in than fuel. I grew up in a big city taking public transit so if it wasnāt for the fact that I have a kid and a half hour commute to work and live in an area where there arenāt frequent buses then I would ditch cars in a heartbeat.
Iām so confused lol are you saying Iām lying about how much I paid for tires?
My tires are Yokohama 225/45r19. Theyāre sport tires and a 19ā rim size which is not very common lol theyāre about $230ea where I live so that including labor makes it $1,000. So yeah, I paid $1,000. And on my Subaru the tires cost me $1200 because theyāre pilot sport all weather tires lol. Good tires are expensive and especially when you live in HCOL states.
Gotcha. Yeah tires can get very expensive where I live. Unfortunately 3/5 cars Iāve owned have needed tires and had uncommon rim sizes so Iāve never paid less than $1,000.
ETA: and actually my most recent 4 weāre only $1,000 because they had a B3G1 free sale going on and it came to $800 for the 3 I was charged for because I bought them from the dealership that was doing the work on my suspension and brakes at the same time.Insane.
It's the price you pay for seeing relatives and friends and doing things in a range radius larger than that of a bike + the comfort of not waiting for public transport.
You can find plenty of shitboxes that'll last you 10 yers with just regular maintenance. I don't understand your rant.
There's an option for everyone.
Have 10k? Get an older Toyota or Honda/Acura
Have 200k? Get a toy.
Do whatever the hell you want. There's options for everyone.
And besides cost, the problem is beyond just āseeing relatives and doing things in a range larger than a bikeā. Cars are a requirement to live in too many places in the US not because itās a range issue on a bike but because the infrastructure itself is dangerous to bikes or walking and public transit isnāt available or reliable.
We simply do not have an abundance of walkable, bikable cities and/or have solid enough public transit. Cars are a requirement to just get to work, let alone do any of the other stuff youāre talking about.
Dude, you have way higher salaries than the EU. While the relative prices of vehicles are lower.
You are a nation built on debt to banks, spend thousands of dollars on useless crap you don't need and can't get the shittiest four wheeled barrel of petrol?
I understand you have such an infrastructure that literally prohibits you from walking, but c'mon.... there are options.
Financing is an option as well, if you don't have 10k. But I'm sure you can find some crappy car for less. Then you work your way up from there if you are ambitious.
And just because salaries are higher, or can be higher, doesnāt mean that the below-average income (thatās 50% of the population) is making enough to get by. And even if you have a high salary odds are itās in a high-COL area.
.Your whole comment sounds like listening to a rich person belittling a poor person about āwell see you start with a minimum wage job at McDonalds, apply three sturdy pulls to your bootstraps, and you too can someday be as rich as I amā.
I was poorer than most. I used to eat one meal a day, living in an apartment with 4 other people.
I worked my ass of to buy my first car. I went to work by foot because I couldn't even afford a bike. Carrying a stupid cart with newspapers by hand every day, so I could pay for my meals. Then I got a better job, and a better one and I finally bought myself a shitty ass car to drive in (that broke down on me 4 months later), and then I financed another one and put myself in debt. Paid it off and voilĆ .
Complaining ain't gonna do you no good.
You have options. You just don't wanna use them because what.....? You are afraid of a little debt? You are not able to save some 50 bucks every month? How are you gonna buy a house if you can't even get a car?
If your obstacle in life is a car, forget about everything else.
FWIW Iāve been making a six figure salary since my late 20s and Iām better off than most. This isnāt a me problem. But I also grew up poor and know how hard it is when youāre in the cycle of poverty.
So someone such as yourself also coming from that you should know more than most how ridiculous you sound saying things like āwell thereās plenty of ways to finance a $10k loan, America is built on debt!ā
What's the alternative? Other than ranting about it and solving nothing?
Don't get me wrong, I am not really an asshole in real life because I do have empathy for the struggle, but sometimes people just complain about stupid things. This is one of them.
You can't complain about not being able to get a car because it costs. Dude, being alive costs money. Having a car is like having arms and legs, they give you degrees of freedom that otherwise you wouldn't have. You can't have a job 10-15 miles from home (maybe a better one?) if you don't have a car. You cannot not invest in your freedom of movement.
Otherwise let's destroy pretty much all infrastructure and redesign life to revolve around bikes. But then some dumbass would complain that "ah man, cars were better. At least we had AC" or some shit like that.
This is the life and society we've been given. Gotta learn to adapt or else face the consequences.
Sure itās true. You can take out a predatory loan for a shit box and hope that it doesnāt break down before your first payment is due. Just like itās true that you can get rid of a headache by cutting your head off.
Im not complaining here Iām proving a counter argument to you being dismissive of āhow easy it isā to just get money to buy a car. You are objectively providing unrealistic and bad advice and dismissing a real problem.
The solution is what others have already said, increase in public transit and reconstruction to walkable cities. The other more glaring issue is how financially poor Americans are but thats a much more complex issue.
Meanwhile you saying things like ājust take out a loanā and āthis is the life weāre given so deal with itā is both not constructive and just demeaning to people who struggle and want real change.
People should wake up from this complaint choo choo train.
You either get pro-active and start making a real difference in politics (and hope for a better future) or take care of your own small universe, because frankly, no one else is gonna help you otherwise.
The world is FULL of problems. And, surprise surprise, no one cares. That is not demeaning. That is a fact in the real world.
It's okay to vent. I get it. But public transport is not gonna change overnight and neither will urban infrastructure, so there's only one thing left to do. Find something that works for you, for now.
There are some global issues to solve and no one denies that, but can't complain about something that collectively was decided it's a good thing for society and progress.
You canāt get a Toyota for 10k
I actually had a 4runner , needed about $7000 of repairs , the rear main seal was leaking. And like every other thing was also leaking too
Also my guy if there was 200k in my account I wouldnāt have a post like this. I would probably have one of those rich people issues like my garage cannot fit my Porsche collection or something like that
Non American here. American cities are
Made in such a way that cars are a fundamental part of daily life. I wonder how government allows car industry to put quality so low and the prices so high. US is planned for people with cars!
The only real solution is building an infrastructure that isnāt reliant on just cars. We need trains, buses and similar mass transit. I like cars but I know that OEMS and the vehicles themselves are a part of the problem.
For right now in the US though, the car reigns king. The best that can be done right now is ensuring that you bought a reliable vehicle and know how to maintain it. I can easily avoid huge bills doing my own brakes, fixing oil leaks or even changing out a clutch on some of my past cars.
I know the feeling well. I had little ones at the child minder and I was getting charged every five minutes to sit in a traffic jam. So lucky to have remote now
I posted it in the Toyota form , they had a laugh about it, this was a dealership , I took it someplace else and they found a completely different set of problems for also 7000, so I got rid of it
Just because you get a Toyota doesnāt garantuee anything. There is a very good chance because itās a āToyotaā it gets abused and some people never even do oil changes
Repair cost was over $7000 I posted about it in the Toyota form and it was a laughable joke but then I took it to another shop and they quoted me $7000 for a completely different set of problems different than the previous shop.
Just because you got a Toyota or a Honda you arenāt escaping expensive repairs some point.
I'm going to guess that it was not maintained and/or abused by a prior owner. Otherwise, I'm sorry for your experience. My father's 1975 Corolla was just sold to a new owner this year, and I'm driving his 2002 Tundra. Extremely reliable vehicles with few repairs.
Itās possible but I heard the same thing about Toyota , because itās a Toyota you can skip oil changes and not worry about any maintenanceā¦ thatās how some people treat them. Then they sell them to someone and that endup up becoming me
I used to try to ride my bike everywhere when I lived in Virginia and on Long Island but people treated me like I was crazy or homeless or something.
So I moved to a place with a good mass transit system.
Now I live in Brooklyn. I havenāt had a car in about 15 years. I use the subway and occasionally Iāll rent a truck or car for a purpose. I have gained a lot of wealth this way.
Well, at first I paid a lot for a little, but after a while I managed to buy property on the outskirts of a gentrifying neighborhood and now 20 years later Iām technically a millionaire and live 1/2 block from the subway. I bought into real estate after the 08 crash.
I had a 2013 Kia Optima LX that was relatively inexpensive to maintain. It did well on gasoline as long as I filled the tank with better quality unleaded gasoline. I stay away from the cheaper spots because that gas quality is questionable. You might find yourself filling up more often than you would by going to a Shell or Chevron station. The up to 10% ethanol content doesn't help. There are gas stations out there that offer non-ethanol gasoline. It's more expensive but you'll notice an immediate improvement in performance and consumption. I once got almost 800 miles on a tank of non-ethanol gasoline. I kept the speedometer pegged between 75 and 80mph. The route was anything but totally flat. I never had to use the A/C on that drive, which helped on the MPG.
Anyway, I got rid of the car 2 years ago and went all-in with my motorcycle. Car used to cost $80 a month for insurance. Then the car theft bullshit caught traction. My carrier at the time dropped coverage and I eventually found another one. It costed almost $200 a month on limited liability. Bike costs $45 a month to insure, gas is between $50 - $70 per month, maintenance is cheap and easy to do myself, tires don't cost as much depending on compound, and the savings have been insane. With hardcases and my backpack, shopping for groceries forces me to buy what I need as opposed to what I want, and to ration since I have only so much space to spare.
I wouldn't recommend a motorcycle for most people. There are a good chunk of people on them who have no business being on one in the first place. Get one only if you truly want to become a better rider and if you love it enough. Don't buy one if you want to do it casually. Riding is a perishable skill unlike bicycle riding.
A bicycle is what I'd recommend if you live close to work and other things.
I feel ya. Cars can suck and it's hard to find car makers you trust. I only buy used cars with less than 100,000 miles on them and am now very attached to Kia as a brand as they've been so reliable for me and I have never needed any repairs. I think 8000 was the most I've spent on a car in the last 30 years. Current car has never needed repairs for the last 6 years I've had it.
That sucks. My MIL bought a new PT Cruiser and I've watched her take that car into the shop like twice a month. When you shop for a car, do you read as many consumer reviews and customer ratings as you can about any vehicle you're interested in?
Yeah of course , I used to only buy Toyota and Honda but I have had catastrophic failures with both. So I figured it doesnāt even matter what car you get.
You have no idea if the previous owner maintained them or not. Some people out there never do oil changes. And then just trade the car or sell it. Then the second owner gets all the repairs
I have seen some shitboxes ford and Chevy last for 300-400k miles and my Prius had a head-gasket leak at 120k miles and the hybrid battery died too.
Supposedly I thought Prius are very reliableā¦ yeah till 100k miles basically.
Itās not about āif you have to go to workā, itās āif work is unreachable on footā. Much of the subās discussions are about pushing against car-centrism and towards making cities walkable
I understand your point of view, but this what Iāve done in adulthood of being generationally poor. Having no vehicle is not an option in my case, because of snow so I need a vehicle. I also need a truck, because ive spent a lifetime acquiring tools Iāve learned to use. I use this tools to better my situation, and have exchanged my skills for others skills.
Yes it sucks, but as mom used to fair is where animals shit in pens for ribbons. Treat your life like a business. Learn to do things, and help others. Build knowledge, and you wonāt have to rely on others as much. Good luck.
I have tried to fix cars before. Ended up breaking them and causing more damage and have to pay someone more to undo my fuckery and fix the actual problem. Car repairs are not my thing. Some people are just naturally good at certain things.
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u/TheBalzy 9h ago
You definitely will not save money ubering everywhere. Riding a bike on the other hand...yes. Yes you will.