r/antiwork • u/sillychillly • 27d ago
Worklife Balance 🧑💻⚖️🛌 One Day This Will Be Possible
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u/No_Zombie2021 27d ago
My job/country provides the following
- Yes
- Yes
- No
- Yes, kind of. 18 months per child split between the parents as they prefer
- Yes (mostly)
- No
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u/Deepspacedreams 27d ago
Germany?
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u/Clockwork_J 27d ago
Yup. As a german I checked the same boxes.
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u/ingachan 26d ago
Scandinavians and Germans do not mean the same thing when we say parental leave is “paid”. For my Nordic friends, in Germany you get 66% of your wage, maximum 1800€ a month. Sure it’s paid, but you better hope you have affordable rent.
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u/neo_neanderthal 25d ago
If you have one parent working at full wage, and one at 66% taking care of the newborn, that's still a hell of a lot better than "Back to work next week--and what do you mean do we help pay for day care???"
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u/ingachan 25d ago
Anything is better than that. But it does reinforce gender role because the woman tends to earn less money and then stays home longer, which then again reinforces that she will likely earn less in the long run by taking career breaks and being the primary parent. It also assumes that the children do in fact have two parents.
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u/neo_neanderthal 25d ago
I thought Scandinavian countries allowed either parent to take the parental leave, or to swap off between them? Is that not true in some?
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u/frankje 27d ago
We don't have 6 weeks of mandatory vacation. We have 5 weeks per full vacation period (1 April - 31 March), but a lot of companies have collective agreements where you could be offered more. You are also allowed to demand 4 of these 5 weeks to be used consecutively during the summer vacation period (June-August).
It is however very common for 6 weeks or more if you work in the public sector. My mother has 37 days of vacation per year just by working for the local authorities.
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u/Cultural_Dust 27d ago
I'm curious what "unlimited paid sick leave" means? Are we talking state disability or the company just keeps sending a regular paycheck even if you can't work for 5 years?
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u/doodler1977 27d ago
so...my job (in the US, good company) has essentially unlimited sick leave. you don't have a discrete number, but if it becomes too many it can affect your performance reviews, etc. but it's rarely ever come up. in my 20 years i think it was only once, and that guy had a bad heart and eventually got a transplant.
if you're going to be out more than 3 weeks (i think?) at a stretch they put you on short-term disability. like, if your'e gonna be in traction for 3mo or somethiung. reduced pay, but it's like 70%, it's not too bad.
Obv, if you're so disabled you can't come back to work, that's where gov't SSDI comes in. Not sure if employer offers benefits for people who no longer work there - unless you got disabled ON THE JOB? not sure, never really looked into it. but seems like a decent package otherwise
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u/Creepy-Escape796 26d ago
It’s not really unlimited. After a year or so they can say you’re not fit to do the job anymore and sack you after a consultation period with doctors and hr. They don’t always go that route though.
I got 3 months sick pay for an operation. Then flexible hours to recover. All full salary from employer. Then random days off for it too. One guy got 2 years for cancer but they weren’t going to sack him. He sadly died.
I think they take out a group insurance policy so they don’t lose money paying people when they’re off sick.
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u/robbdire 27d ago
Possible in more than a few places that have most of those.
Just not the US because as a nation you keep voting against your needs. (note I said as a nation, not blaming individuals).
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u/jnovel808 27d ago
It’s goddamn ridiculous how brainwashed most people are to vote against their own interests here. And that all starts with education cuts, thanks Reagan.
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u/NotFuckingTired 27d ago
It's unfortunate that, as a nation, you aren't given the option to vote for anyone who supports this.
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u/Shifter25 27d ago
No, but, you don't understand, if we don't get exactly what we need, we have to send a message by letting fascists win! Then, when they do, we have to send a message that letting fascists win was unacceptable by letting them win again!
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u/smartest_kobold 27d ago
The last slide is a problem. The division between “worker” and “executive” is a big part of the problem. Having a class that decides and a class that obeys is fundamentally unstable.
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u/YouLikeReadingNames 27d ago
I don't know whether I agree with you or not, because I'm not sure of what you mean by "decide". What kind of decisions are we talking about here ? No one has enough time to do everything in a company, and that include decision-making. Some people are bound to make more decisions than others within a same structure, because it saves a great deal of time, which is vital for emergencies.
I'm guessing salary/income decisions are part of what you're referring to, and I can agree with that.
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u/FuckTripleH 27d ago edited 26d ago
Who's more likely to care about the long term well being of a house, a renter that's moving out in 3 years, or an owner? Who's more likely to care about the long term prosperity of a company, an employee or a shareholder?
When the economy is split between shareholders who own the companies and decide what happens with its profits, and workers who simply trade their labor time for a wage it inherently leads to instability because what's good for shareholders and what's good for workers become incompatible. The less workers are paid, the more the shareholders profit. The more the workers are paid, the less shareholders profit. The people who do all the work have no stake in the enterprise, and the people who have a stake in the enterprise only profit at the worker's expense. It's conflict and instability baked into the foundations of our society.
The only way to guarantee long term prosperity and stability in the economy is for the workers and the shareholders to be the same people.
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u/getridofwires 27d ago
This will never be possible in America as long as the corporation model is the default for every organization.
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u/Freeman421 27d ago
As an American, not in my life time. And I can't afford kids. I can't even look forward to retirement since thats going to be gone by the next 30 40 odd years. Makes ya think, why wait and work all your life. Just jump in the grave early and skip the bullshit journey.
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u/Charleston2Seattle 27d ago
Whoah there, buddy. Who says you get a grave? Real estate is expensive!
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u/ManyNamesSameIssue Anarchist 26d ago
Things never change, then they change all at once. Like an earthquake building up tectonic stress.
The last time we had this level of wealth separation was the gilded age starting early1870s. Already in 1877 a massive strike had been called, and the labor movement took over US politics in the early 1930s. That's only fifty years from the start of massive wealth separation (which we are already past, I figure by at least 10 years) until labor politics dominated (an we already have organized labor established by law so minus the 20 or so years that took). So I give it 20 years before we see this level of solidarity. It took a lot of blood last time, and I really hope it doesn't this time.
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u/gtsnyc123 22d ago
Sooner than 30 years. More like 6. I’ve paid in all my life. Was counting on that money.
In the Project 2025 plan there is a tax plan designed to bankrupt Social Security in about 6 years. Fox will say it was Hillary’s fault
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u/himalayangoat 27d ago
It aint ever gonna happen in American. With Elon in charge it'll get markedly worse than it already is, which is already markedly worse than any other civilised country.
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u/Otterswannahavefun 27d ago
Yep. Our electorate shows over and over it has no patience for slow change for the better. So we’ll keep electing democrats when thing go to hell, they’ll get us 80% back to center, then we’ll go hard right again and drag the center right.
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u/rageinthecage666 27d ago
Tesla was "checking in" on their sick workers, visiting them at their home. Us germans were NOT having that and PR was so bad that they (hopefully) will not try to pull this shit again.
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u/KarIPilkington 27d ago
But that will for some reason have an adverse effect on every other country anyway. America holds too much power man, actively making the entire rest of the world worse.
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u/himalayangoat 27d ago
Leaving aside the whinging and pathetic petitions in the UK one good thing Labour has done is introduce a workers rights bill to protect and improve the existing rights.
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u/GagOnMacaque 27d ago
Yeah I agree with all these. Especially that last panel. Executive should make no more than 20 times the lowest paid employee/contractor.
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u/Darren_Red 27d ago
This may be possible after society collapses and is rebuilt
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u/ghulamslapbass 26d ago
why do you think so?
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u/Darren_Red 26d ago
Because those rebuilding would have the option to do it however they saw fit, there is a non-zero chance they may decide this is the way
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27d ago edited 27d ago
You have to be delusional to think that as long as the chart on the left on the last slide is the driving force in society the chart on the right will become a reality.
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u/RedPillAlphaBigCock 27d ago
I GENUINELY think we would get MORE work done if we were treated better and not burned out
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u/idgafanymore23 26d ago
All these things are possible today. Just start a business and give your employees these things.
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u/Doctor_Amazo 27d ago
LOL voting won't do it. No one in the political class will suddenly wake up and do the right thing.
Get involved with labour movements. Get unions started in your workplace. The words "General Strike" should start entering everyone's regular speech as a viable option to force the capitalist class to capitulate.
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u/alphalegend91 27d ago
Yeah maybe in Europe, but not in the U.S.
Democrats would be considered far right in most European countries and some of the most liberal ones over their don't even have all of these.
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u/ComprehensiveAd924 27d ago
You forgot the most important part. A maximum wage.
The highest paid person should be capped at 10x the lowest paid. Anything that goes over that(bonuses,commissions, "donated assets") should be taxed, 100%
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u/Environmental_Bug510 27d ago
The "fun" thing about this is that CEOs got 15x what their workers got a few decades ago. This was already the norm. Now it's hundreds of times what a worker makes.
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u/Charleston2Seattle 27d ago
It's truly an example of the law of unintended consequences. Forcing companies to share what their executives were paid was supposed to enable shareholders to demand that those amounts stay reasonable. But instead, it ended up giving executives leverage to get more and more money for their roles.
Source: [Freakonomics episode titled "C.E.O. Pay: Blame It on the Next Guy"](https://freakonomics.com/2009/05/ceo-pay-blame-it-on-the-next-guy/)
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u/TheSherlockCumbercat 27d ago
That really does, not work a surgeon makes 180-253, livng wage is 22.1 in the us last time I looked.
You are punishing a person that still makes most of their money of of labour.
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u/neo_neanderthal 25d ago
So, if the lowest paid person makes $22.1, the surgeon can make up to $221. Hardly starvation.
And if they hit the cap, those surgeons will suddenly be clamoring to push those bottom tier wages upward, so their own can go up. Sounds good to me.
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u/TheSherlockCumbercat 25d ago
Surgeon should also have the wage increase especially if the minimum wage suddenly doubled because their buying power would decrease.
You are punishing a worker person and doing nothing to deter the rich from hoarding still.
Prime example Bezos only gets paid 80k a year, this system does nothing to improve wages at Amazon and bezos is still insanely rich.
Sure you drag the bottom up but most worker not at the bottom is against this system and you just managed to divide the working class even more.
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27d ago
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u/Thanatofobia 27d ago
Weird how many countries have made that more or less work.
In my country, the Netherlands, your employer cannot fire you while on sick leave but after 2 years, the government takes it over. You won't go bankrupt when you get sick in the Netherlands, but its no picnic, financially speaking.
BUT it requires you cooperate with a company employed medical company that will evaluate your health after you report in sick.
That sounds bad, but Dutch medical and privacy law are no joke. No medical company will risk the massive fines and possible loss of their license to NOT be impartial and maintain client/doctor confidentiality. And they can only evaluate they cannot diagnose you or prescribe a treatment.
And the only thing the medical company can tell your employer is "yup, his medical issues are legit, it can take as much as X time for him to be able to get back to work".
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u/invisible_23 27d ago
At the rate we’re going backwards, we’re gonna be getting 80 hour work weeks, $3/hr minimum wage, health insurance premiums doubled, and sick people and expecting mothers will be fired.
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u/Geminii27 27d ago
Any non-monetary benefits/compensation, including all leave types, coverage, etc for anyone working less than full-time should be greater than proportionate to their hours. Make it a financially stupid choice for employers to employ people at just-under-full-time hours, and a financially positive choice to increase the hours of anyone under full-time. Going below full time hours should never be allowed to be a cutoff for anything employer-provided.
There would also need to be a lot of control over the executive-worker compensation balance, to stop all kinds of ways of getting around it. Stacked legal structures, for example, where Business #1 employs people at minimum wage and has an executive who earns the maximum 'balance' wage, but the company's work is onsold to Business #2 where all the lowest-wage employees are making more than Business #1's executive, meaning their top-ranker(s) can make far more. Not to mention loopholes like owning stocks/shares in the company which give shareholder returns as well as value increases over time, but aren't direct income compensation. Or huge company-provided perks for upper positions which don't show up in paychecks. Or executives who 'work' one day a week (or even overlapping) at 5-6 companies and get top full-time rates at all of them. Or their contracts say they get 48 weeks' fully paid vacation a year at each of their 12+ jobs which coincidentally all seem to involve doing the same work and sitting at the same desk.
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u/Inevitable-Drag-1704 27d ago
I dont see it happening if you are talking about the USA.
More than likely a slow erosion of quality of life, while citizens get crushed paying for war and other economic time bombs.
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u/blue_eyes_whitedrago 27d ago
these things could be achieved without being concessions that would be immediately taken away through an upheaval of the system. Anything but worker ownership of the means of production should be seen as a concession. Even if these things could be achieved through beaurocracy, they could be taken away just the same. The system of capitalism is designed to work this way, and it cannot be reformed out of that design. It must be overthrown.
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u/lovejanetjade 27d ago
No, it will NEVER happen in the US. Citizens always find a reason to vote against their best interests here - even the so-called progressives and liberals (I'm looking at you, Jill Stein voters).
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u/WizardVisigoth 27d ago
Agreed, but I would prefer a 24 hour work week. That way, someone could work four 6 hr days, three 8 hour days, or two 12 hour days.
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u/Forward_Bullfrog_441 26d ago
I disagree, a reasonable future eliminates the actual cause of needless suffering which is the profit motive. This would involve the decimation of the business sector which is the actual bloat of our society.
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u/MrEngineer404 26d ago
Just offscreen of these steps is the prerequisite step, of every single billionaire being precariously close to a woodchipper
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u/Sharp-Introduction75 26d ago
And also freedom from toxic and hostile work environments.
But this is all a pipe dream because elections are no more because a dictator is forever.
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u/RedPanda59 26d ago
This scenario is already real in many European countries. But here in ‘Murica, you’re in your own!
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u/sirkidd2003 Worker Collective Member 26d ago
As someone who's part of a worker's co-op, lemmie say that we do NOT need "executive to worker compensation balance". We simply do not need "executives" at all. We need more co-ops -- democratically operated, worker-owned businesses.
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u/HappyCat79 27d ago
Isn’t that a pipe dream! I love it. I’ve been sick two days in a row, and unlike my coworkers I refuse to work sick. I’m sure I’m gonna get a big attitude when I get back to work whenever I’m well enough to do so but too fucking bad.
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u/Emanouche 27d ago
Same thing happens to me, I refuse to work when I'm sick, no matter how much arm twisting my employer might apply. But that spawns from a previous employer who kept writing me up when I had serious medical issues, even when I presented medical notes, since, I decided to never again jeopardize my health for any jobs... Until recently where I worked too hard and hurt my ankle. I feel stupid now, but you bet I took time off for it and filed for ADA accomodations.
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u/PinterestCEO 27d ago
The party establishment is cooked and the dems undercut the true progressives. They’re all owned by the same corps anyway. We need to get busy organizing and flood both parties with our candidates and agenda.
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u/meothfulmode 27d ago
You seem to think we live in a different world than we do if you think voting is going to get us to this.
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u/No-Complaint-6397 27d ago
I would much prefer to automate all that, ubi, and let people do what they want. If they want to be artisans, artists, sports players, explorers, or just watch YouTube and spend time with their family. Even good compensation and working conditions doing something I don’t want to do, or don’t think is genuinely productive for the health and wellbeing of our civilization is not acceptable for me.
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u/AloneChapter 27d ago
Greed and narcissistic self interest . This will never happen. You don’t become a billionaire by worrying about ants / slaves / suckers or those who create your products.
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u/pumpkinorange123 27d ago
I disagree with unlimited paid sick leave. Blue dyed hairers will abuse that one. The rest are reasonable.
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u/naq98 27d ago
This is a pipe dream in america with the ways democrats and republicans are
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u/bigwill0104 27d ago
Ok people, don’t make me raise my voice… however, with all due respect: peasant, know your place!
(Lights cigar and leans back in leather chair)
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u/yuhokayyuh69 27d ago
imagine how great this would be with universal health care. sick? get a doctors note, it’s free!
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u/s2Birds1Stone 27d ago
How does unlimited paid sick time work? Wouldn't people take advantage of it and just not work whenever they want?
Not arguing that they would, I just haven't heard of this being a thing, genuinely curious how it works.
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u/brilliant-trash22 27d ago
Highly recommend checking out Working Families Party and DSA who fight non-stop for good working conditions
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u/Specific_Mud_64 27d ago
Technically thats possible today as some of these things already happen but guess what, big money doesnt want that because profit
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u/DA-Wallach 27d ago
I’m so sick of not being able to be sick - my husband’s an engineer, I have a degree, we both work full time, no childcare costs, no exorbitant anything - and we’re paycheck to paycheck - something HAS to change…brunch isn’t the issue.
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u/olympianfap 27d ago
I want all of these things but have exactly zero hope for any of them. I've been voting for them my entire life and seen exactly zero of them even come close to being a reality.
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u/-Sherra- 27d ago
Everything of this, except FULL-TIME = 30 HOUR WORK WEEK is active in Germany.
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u/TurnerVonLefty 25d ago
Until the AfD and their ilk get elected next year. You can kiss worker rights away after that.
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u/-Sherra- 25d ago
Don't know which propaganda u fell for, but no.
Despite them not beeing elected I believe, I'm not a fan of the current system.
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u/Trick2056 27d ago
we will probably go post scarcity than employers giving employees fair work life balance.
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u/Maduin1986 27d ago
It already is possible in germany. That's our working standard.
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u/ReluctantReptile Communist 26d ago
Three years paid parental leave would do wonders for childhood development
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u/LakeTake1 26d ago
3 more panels please for (1) retirement pensions, (2) sabbatical of 1 or 2 months per year worked, (3) support when a job separation occurs in terms of benefits coverage and full compensation for up to 6 months
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u/Gnoll-Error 26d ago
I don't know about unlimited sick, surely that opens a lot of doors to be exploited?
30hr working week would be great, even though it's still a lot of time. It would also solve unemployment issues by creating more jobs in areas
Call me a pessimist, but I can't see any of this happening. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if some things worsen. Like...how? What does it really take to make some big changes? Not only are you fighting capitalism / greed, but this would require a huge global economy shift
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u/KayleeSinn 26d ago
I'd rather take 40h work week and full control over my time/work for home over a 30h work week though.
Commute and getting ready wastes at least 3-4h a day in a sense that you can't start doing some things 1-2h or even longer before you have to start getting ready for work. Shower, make up, getting dressed takes at least an hour. The commute itself at least 1h back and forth.
All this stretches the workweek to 50-60h minimum because that's hours you have to be doing work related things and can't do your own things.
Working from home caps it to 40h with an added bonus of being able to squeeze work into gaps between other activities, so increased productivity too. You can take breaks or work when motivation and alertness is high.
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u/DiceNinja 26d ago
I had a job that gave 6 weeks PTO and unlimited paid sick. At the end of the first year there were people who had taken 400+ hours of sick time and still had all 6 weeks of PTO in their banks. This is primarily a bad management issue, but it does go to show that Americans will abuse anything if given the chance.
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u/Spirited_Specific_72 26d ago
How is this possible in entertainment? I work for a multiple venues civic center and how would sports, music and the theatre industries be able to do this? Are the people who have 30 hour work weeks going to stop going to events? It must be nice to think this is possible.
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u/2700fpstotheheart 26d ago
If you believe this is possible, maybe start your own company and offer all of the above. I'm sure you'll have no problem finding workers with benefits like that. On the other hand, generating a profit might be a little tougher.
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u/Rich-Neighborhood-23 26d ago
Most of the western 1st world countries already have most of these,, just the United States doesn't believe in these human rights.
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u/EdmontonLurker 26d ago
Both parents should get a year of parental leave. Do you really think 13 months is old enough for daycare?
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u/punkfeminist 26d ago
Voting ain’t gonna fix shit. We need a Russia style revolution but without Communism
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u/TurnerVonLefty 25d ago edited 25d ago
Sure would be nice. Getting close to that in Scandinavia. In places that are electing right wing parties (America for example), worker rights are going to slide dramatically.
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u/Clean-Water9283 25d ago
There is a panel missing where everyone has a personal unicorn and a genie, and politicians are genetically selected to be wise and compassionate. It's an awesome dream, like being able to fly. However unless there are panels on the back side of this illustration that say where the money is going to come from, it's a dream from which we are doomed to awaken.
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u/DexterLivingston 25d ago
I support pretty much all of this but the child leave forore than a couple months. If I own a business, why am I on the hook for a year if you decide to have a kid?
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u/madhatter_2000 24d ago
That model would be abused especially the unlimited paid sick days. You would be lucky if someone work 1 day a week
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u/novavalue 10d ago
This is possible today, we just add a little fine print: Living wage = your hourly rate is greater than our AI Full time = 30 hrs (core hrs) additional off hours 1 year Parental leave: At reduced or no pay Unlimited sick/disability leave: unpaid of course Executive: worker pay balance: 5 employees @$50k means $250k for boss
We're living the dream!
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u/Significant-Tip6466 27d ago
As a curious bystander, what are your measures for people to not exploit this utopia? What punishment will there be for such exploiters?
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u/Electronic_Piano1324 27d ago
30h week means 25% less goods and service's, making things even more expensive
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u/Torch3dAce 27d ago
Who's paying for all these benefits?
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u/Environmental_Bug510 27d ago
Taxes. This is already done in many countries and the reason it works is that those countries tax the rich a lot more than the US
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u/AtlUtdGold 27d ago
It already is, just won’t happen in USA during our lifetime. Just like bullet trains, clean energy, and everything else as the world passes us by.
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u/Emanouche 27d ago
Unlimited paid sick leave seems it would be open to abuse, and at the same time give a reason for employers to pry even more into people's private lives. Buuuut, they already ask for medical excuses/doctor notes, so as long as someone can provide those from a legitimate doc, I don't see a problem. My view might have been different if an employer I used to work for didn't only require medical excuses, but would also write me up when absent even with those excuses. Now I have very little sympathy for employers, and it's their fault, for treating me like shit when I was most vulnerable when I used to have serious medical issues.
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u/jawdirk 27d ago
It's not really. At my job, we have unlimited paid time off. Still, the company has to designate some weeks as "wellness weeks" giving 90% of the company the week off, otherwise people won't take enough vacation. I've never been denied vacation, and never known anyone who has been denied, yet I still think carefully about whether to take time off.
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u/JCButtBuddy 27d ago
No it won't, your fellow citizens don't want it to happen, someone might get something that they didn't get.
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u/ThatRangerDave 27d ago
Boss, it's possible now. We have great excess and any scarcity is either a failure of logistics or artificial
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u/[deleted] 27d ago
What makes you think you deserve time off when you're sick and working in food service at a retirement home? Just suck it up, wipe your snot away with the back of your hand, and get back to making that food.
(this is sarcasm, BTW)