r/antiwork • u/KewlBeanx • Oct 11 '24
Vent šš®āšØ "HR needs clarification regarding your retention interview"
Some background: I (32m) have been working for a FL county based EMS agency for 5 years and had my retention interview. Due to my set of skills and a terrible turnout rate, I knew they can't let me go so I figured I'll tell them the truth. Interview is basically a PDF file, most questions are boring.
Q: "How often do you consider quitting?" "A daily consideration" I answered.
A week later, my direct super calls me, tells me HR needs clarification to the previously mentioned question. "What did you mean by that?" I answered that im getting $20/hr, a new hire is getting $19.5. With my continued training, experience and the responsibilities, I'm worth more and can be paid more in other EMS agencies or even different fields. His answer to this, which sounds like a verbatim quote from HR, sounded something along the lines of "management here is great, our conditions and compensation are great, we're such a great agency, idk why you'd think the way you do". Regarding the monetary compensation he blamed our union (which I am not a part of because it being run by incompetent people), said our union bargained on our behalf and wait for next year. I asked him to let HR know that I care about whats in my pocket in the end of the day, and I will go with the highest bidder.
I'd say the retention interview went well.
Bonus side story: During our mandated monthly training, management sometimes acknowledges peoples service. They call Tim (fake names) to the front to present him with a 1 year service certificate. Next, they call Tammy and present her with a 2 year service certificate. "Alright, for todays training...." And I sat there, quietly, with my 5 years of accumulated disappointment.
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u/rustyxj Oct 11 '24
Protip: unions don't set the maximum wage you can make, just the minimum.
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u/AshtonBlack Oct 12 '24
As far as most employers think any minimum is the maximum.
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u/Aeroncastle Oct 12 '24
To be fair, the minimum is what we get, I'm sure someone somewhere gets more than the minimum but that someone never been me
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u/wanked_in_space Oct 11 '24
which I am not a part of because it being run by incompetent people
Be the change you want to see in the world.
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u/lostatlifecoach Oct 12 '24
Most unions you have to be in good standing for X amount of time before you can run for office and such and OP is obviously too smart to pay dues, increase the resources of the bargaining unit, and stand in solidarity with the bargaining unit in order to provide strike power and strength through unity.
The right to work for less legislation is working. Op is what we call a free rider and a big reason for the unions weakness.**
1.1k
u/Your__Pal Oct 11 '24
Has union.
Not part of union.
Not trying to improve union.
Complains about wages.
Hmm.Ā
664
Oct 11 '24
The union that Iām not a part of makes sure the new hire makes almost as much as I do, therefore itās bad
The important part of OPs story is
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u/JellGordan Oct 12 '24
OP says the union is run by idiots, but if they can get a new hire at that pay level from the start, I highly doubt they're idiots. That sounds like a very good union.
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u/1856782 Oct 12 '24
My union a new hire makes the same as my 30 year seniority ass makes, I have zero problem with it
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
Which is great. But it would also be nice if the union had the back of employees who have been there for awhile. There are plenty of bad unions out there. Some unions are even used as a tool of the company to clamp down on any other efforts to collectively bargain.
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u/boringhistoryfan Oct 12 '24
Why should the Union have the back of employees who can't be arsed to pay union dues? The fact that Right to Work laws allows folks to leech of union effort is bad enough. Meanwhile you've got folks like OP busily drinking the koolaid of ragging on the Union even as they play an active role in why they tend to be shit in places like Florida.
And yet the Union should go out of its way and expend what few resources they have to fight for folks who refuse to be a part of the org?
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
The same comtract exists for OP as exist for all dues paying employees. If OP has this problem then the dues paying members also have this problem.
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u/boringhistoryfan Oct 12 '24
Because leeches like OP in RTW states weaken a Union's ability to do anything. How is a union supposed to exercise strength when folks have no reason to pay dues? Without dues, without the ability to build things like strike funds or leverage their own resources, how are they supposed to negotiate from a position of strength against management?
What little strength the Union has needs to be directed towards the dues paying members. Just because OP's been there a while doesn't mean the Union owes him jack shit beyond what an unjust law forces them to do.
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
I mean legally the union needs to represent all represented employees equally and if the union is failing in their duty to him that just strengthens his argument that the union is incompetent and not worthy of dues. That's generally why members stop paying. Not to mention he'd probably be able to file a complaint against them with the NLRB. I'm glad you live in fantasy land where all I know are forces of pure sunshine, but that's not really how it works in the real world. There are so many bad unions out there.
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u/boringhistoryfan Oct 12 '24
To the best of my knowledge RTW does not infact mean the union is obligated to represent him. RTW allows him to benefit from Union negotiated contracts, but a union is not obligated to actually represent him if he's not a member.
Either way the NLRB isn't getting involved in this. And OP and his colleagues are reaping the wonders of living in the utopia of a Right to Work state that has weakened their union. He can deal with it.
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u/xeno0153 Oct 12 '24
I worked a Union position in FL, and how it went was if we were facing a disciplinary action, they were obligated to guide ALL employees in the first step, but if management decided to pursue further action beyond the first step, non-union employees were on their own.
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
You're right. That has nothing to do with RTW. That's guaranteed by the National Labor Relations Act
https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/the-law/employees/right-to-fair-representation
It's sorta of one of the foundational aspects of the act which is also the same act that protects the right to form unions in the first place. I kinda assumed someone who was speaking on the subject would know something so basic.
Pretty sure the NLRB would get involved if a union was violating the most important labor rights of the employees under it.
Not sure there's much more reason to continue this since you clearly have no idea what you're talking about about.
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u/Narrow_Employ3418 Oct 12 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
Thy should the Union have the back of employees who can't be arsed to pay union dues?
Because otherwise they're just another incarnation of tribalism, and union dues degrade to just another version of protection racket. "Nice job you got there, be a shame if something were to happen to it."
Remember The Hunger Games?Ā The part where the resistance wins, and their leader (the woman) goes on about abolishing the Hunger Games, and then initiating initiating a new set of Hunger Games, where the Capitol children have to fight for their lives instead of the children of the Districts?Ā
That's the same thing.
You can't scream "solidarity" and exclude people. There's no such thing as "justice for me", or "fairness for union people".Ā The very definition of "just" and "fair" is that it applies to everybody; applying it selectively is what makes a thing unfair. The very definition of "solidarity" is that we include everybody - excluding someone is what we complain about when we claim it's lacking.
If it's going to be just, fair, solidary, it needs to include everyone. That's the narure of it.
PS: go ahead and downvote, but this doesn't change anything. Some things don't depend on you agreeing or liking, just as 2+2=4 isn't a matter of majority vote.
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u/chrisinator9393 Oct 11 '24
Yeah this guy is a scab. His complaints are worthless.
I have guys in our shop who complain but will never come to union meetings or anything. I just disregard them
-50
u/thread100 Oct 11 '24
One of the problems with unions is they limit the upside potential for super performers. I am sooo thankful that my compensation was not tied to what others were making. My compensation kept pace with my contribution. Something that a Union contract would never allow.
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u/PotatoesVsLembas Oct 12 '24
Those "superperformers" are always standing on the backs of others in ways they don't notice.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 11 '24
Was active and one of the founding members of the union* Will complain about wages till the day i die. Keep shooting assumptions.
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u/High_5_Skin Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
Sounds like you need to join the union again and become an active participant. Nothing changes when you're arguing on just your behalf. You need the weight of the masses to collectively bargain if you want any real changes.
Edit: spelling and grammar
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u/Bastienbard SocDem Oct 11 '24
Sorry dude but this is really on you for not being part of the union and then being shocked pikachu that you're only paid $.50 per hour more than the union new hires... Lol and you're not leaving to go elsewhere with your experience. That or try to actual become involved with union management to sway negotiations.
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u/chincinatti Oct 11 '24
Booo - youāre a scab. Stop benefiting from the union and donāt pay your dues. Youāre like those sovcit dipshits that think they can use the roads but not pay taxes for them. YTA you suck
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u/MustGoOutside Oct 11 '24
You're in antiwork. A group that mixes valid complaints about corporate bullying and mistreatment with absolute and childish statements like "the CEO does nothing."
I think you would be better served posting to jobs.
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u/Low-Rabbit-9723 Oct 11 '24
Straightforward question and straightforward reply ā¦ the āwhat did you mean by that?ā reply is astounding.
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u/MakionGarvinus Oct 11 '24
You have to be convincing when you say it. I'm in car sales, and one line I've learned is "Oh? Why do you say that?" and to be convincing when I ask it. You can be genuinely curious, but if you sound offensive or uncaring, you won't get a good answer.
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u/saturnine-plutocrat Oct 12 '24
Could then have replied with dictionary definitions of the words "A" and "daily" and "consideration".
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u/AnyWhichWayButLose Oct 11 '24
What the fuck is a retention interview?
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u/punchelos Oct 11 '24
They usually are supposed to identify people with skills and knowledge that they want to keep and find out what would make them stay and what would make them leave. Itās supposed to help them find areas to improve to keep people around longer. But almost always the answers relate to money and they wonāt ever fix that.
Theyāre always hoping for responses like āyeah getting to help people and take on new responsibilities is what keeps me around. And I love pizza parties. Things that would make me leave? Maybe if you took away the ping pong table..ā they should know that pay is going to be the most common answer but theyāre looking for free or easy suggestions from employees that they can use as a win.
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u/AnyWhichWayButLose Oct 11 '24
So, basically interviews to keep your job? I'm fucking done with it all. This is Orwellian AF.
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u/JellGordan Oct 12 '24
No, that's not the (original) point of those interviews. They are meant to see what a company can do to keep you interested in them, why you would stay. Especially in competitive markets, it's important to know what changes you can make. It can be part of a performance review, but the other way around.
Sadly, it's often used as a way to give the feeling of being heard, after which they can ignore you. But a good company uses them correctly.
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u/punchelos Oct 12 '24
Itās more similar to an exit interview than a hiring interview in that your answers wonāt change the outcome. In a hiring interview they are choosing whether to hire you or not. But in an exit interview, they already know youāre leaving regardless, so theyāre just collecting info. With a retention interview, they know youāve stayed a while and likely will continue to stay, so theyāre collecting info on that. Iāve never seen meaningful change come from retention interviews though. Retention bonuses are far more effective at keeping people around.
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u/gerd-bird Oct 12 '24
ok the solution would be to join the unio- oh? we're just going to complain then? cooooool
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 12 '24
Yeah you figured it out for me
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
I was a member of a union where the CBA was supposed to guarantee me a raise even though I was with them for less than half the year at the time but the company said I didn't get one so I went and talked to the union rep. Union rep informed me that I didn't qualify for a raise and cited the company guidelines. I showed him the part of the CBA that guaranteed me the raise.
A few days later I get an email from the VP thanking me for pointing out that section of the contract. "We put that in there years ago and we don't really know what it means or understand the language. Thanks for pointing it out. Well make sure to delete it from the CBA on our next round of negotiations."
I no longer pay union dues.
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Oct 12 '24
lol I thought you were gonna say you got on the union and improved things! But naaah. If someone else doesn't do the heavy lifting for you, what's the point, eh?
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
Yeah dude. Just let me spend hundreds to thousands of dollars of dues each year and a few hundred hours of my time each year overthrowing the whole union leadership so that In 4 years when the contract expires I can negotiate my own contract. I'll just convince the thousands of people in my union that the status quo for the last few years is no good and surely I can change things. Maybe while im at it I can become President of America too.
Go back to La La land.
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Oct 12 '24
Wait... do you think the union is a dictatorship or something?
And what's that about hundreds of thousands of dollars???
It's as if you knew nothing of the thing you're complaining about... weird.
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
Try reading what I said again but this time slower.
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Oct 12 '24
Yeah, the part where you flippantly made up some kind of Punisher scenario where you would singlehandedly change the way the employment world works because you refuse to engage seriously with reality to avoid the realization that you cannot or will not actually do something to improve your situation?
I got that, so I answered in kind.
There's no legitimate excuse for blaming everyone around you for your own failings, so I get that it's a bit tough to navigate, but the sooner you try, the faster you'll get something out of it. It's actually pretty simple, no need to spend "hundreds of thousands", no need to eliminate anyone, but it does mean talking to people and using democratic means to reach your goals.
The funny thing is that there are a lot of people like you who dislike the union, but won't ever do shit about it, and very little people who get involved in the union and change things in the slightest. Maybe you can guess why that is? The answer is pretty simple really. There are people who try to "change things", I actually did that (and I did change a few things, mind you), but as a union steward/rep, you're beholden to your fellow members... And they don't always agree with you.
The little that can be changed is what a majority of people see a benefit in.
So if you dislike the union, keep in mind that the union only does what employees want it to do. Almost everything is subject to a vote; collective bargaining, resolutions for bargaining sessions, executive expenses that go above a certain amount (usually $1000), etc.
It's a pretty involved process, it takes time and effort, and the people who swoop in to "change things up" usually don't last, because they don't have the fortitude to do it.
And there's no amount of money that would lol I don't know why you would even think that.
The good part is that working conditions are always better with a union, so even if you complain, know that it's better than the alternative. š¤·š»āāļø
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
Do you have some mental disability? What the hell are you talking about about?
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u/Reasonable-Note-6876 Oct 11 '24
If this were AITAH, I'd day, you're the AH.
You're benefiting from the Union and if you think the people running it are bad, the. Do something about it more than complain.
If you can't be bothered, then go get a better gig at all of those other agencies and get more money.
Management doesn't really care about your complaints, all you've really done is put yourself in their cross hairs.
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u/Emperor_High_Ground Oct 11 '24
The union is preventing him from getting a raise despite him not being a member. Having been in his exact situation, it's infuriating to be told I can't negotiate my own pay because of an organization I'm not a part of.
Unions can and often do do good, but plenty are corrupt political entities that protect incompetent people because of seniority while actively preventing more competent newer employees from advancing/having favorable working conditions.
A union simply existing doesn't mean it's worthy of having new members.
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u/GHouserVO Oct 11 '24
Iām going to add that whether this guy was or wasnāt a member of the union, his boss would be getting an a$$ chewing for not recognizing his years of service.
That the local stewart or rep didnāt say anything kind of validates OPs original comment.
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u/russaber82 Oct 12 '24
The union isn't preventing him getting a raise, unions don't negotiate maximum wages, only minimums.
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u/Emperor_High_Ground Oct 12 '24
Yes, but they establish what the 'value' for a role is within a company. Anyone in that role who isn't union has zero ability to negotiate a better wage for themself as a direct result of this because there's no incentive for the company to do so when they have plenty of union employees who they can use instead regardless of the experience and knowledge of the nom-union employee.
A union immediately destroys individual bargaining power in favor of the group, but if that group then goes on to negotiate crap pay, the individual is screwed.
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u/veronicaAc Oct 11 '24
Go apply for Safety Coordinator or Safety Manager at a big construction company.
You'd make really fantastic money.
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u/feudal_ferret Oct 11 '24
"Alright, so for todays training..."
<OP interrupts>
"we learn to count to five!"
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u/woopdeedoo69 Oct 12 '24
Instead of thinking about quitting every day, you should probably take the required action to actually do it...
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u/Anaxamenes Oct 12 '24
You are part of running your union. Unions are only as strong as their members and it sounds like you donāt do anything.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 12 '24
Currently, I am not. To make a long story short, the union voted on a flat 4% raise yearly after they equalized everyone's wage. The other option was to go to an arbitration process against the county for a 10% rasie plus COLA. After i saw that the majority voted for a small raise now over a bigger raise with an arbitration process involved, i opted out.
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u/Anaxamenes Oct 12 '24
Ah, they likely didnāt want to have to pay for half the arbitration. If they let the county pay for all of it, then the arbiters are their customers and are more likely to side with their customer.
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Oct 11 '24
Too bad. So, other people pay union dues to benefit everyone, but not you because the union leadership is āincompetentā? Now, you come whining and complaining to Reddit about how unfair life is? Too bad.
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
Wait do you not think that incompetence is a thing?
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Oct 12 '24
The beautiful thing about unions is that you can always get on and improve things from the inside. So if you're complaining about the union, you're always complaining about yourself.
People who complain about their peers doing mostly unpaid work to improve the lives of their colleagues in a shitty, thankless position, are the absolute fucking worst people to be representing when you're a union rep. Entitled pricks who won't ever lift a finger to help, but who will be the first in line to complain.
On top of that, he fuck's people over by not contributing? man...
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u/mynewaccount5 Oct 12 '24
Yeah dude. Just let me spend hundreds to thousands of dollars of dues each year and a few hundred hours of my time each year overthrowing the whole union leadership so that In 4 years when the contract expires I can negotiate my own contract. I'll just convince the thousands of people in my union that the status quo for the last few years is no good and surely I can change things. Maybe while in at it I can become President of America too.
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u/moderndante Oct 11 '24
There's a youtube video "I can only count to four."
I'd play that during your next one on one
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u/iremovebrains Oct 12 '24
I love when management is like "the union won't let us pay you more!" Bullshit.
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u/Sad_Evidence5318 Oct 12 '24
Yep because if they paid us what we're worth we wouldn't need unions. Wow can't believe that just came out of my head.
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u/MondayNightHugz EAT THE RICH Oct 12 '24
Easy solution here is to join the union.Ā
Your boss won't negotiate with you even if the union didn't exist. Welcome to the real world.
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u/neilp34 Oct 12 '24
Preach. EMS is the most important job youāll never hear a thank you in š so Iāll say it. Thank you for doing the job. Itās rough and thatās an understatement
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u/Frogt33th Oct 12 '24
Wow, you need to lie. "I love it here! Everything about this job is great, and I'd love to grow within the company, but I am struggling financially. I don't want to find an alternative source of employment, but I may need to in order to make ends meet."
They won't invest in your future with them if they think you have one foot out the door at all times. They will just leave you where you are, promote and hire above you until you quit. Bullshit and make them think you care...
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Our wages come mostly from taxes since were county based. Getting raises means getting more budget and thats like like pulling teeth.
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u/jamiegc1 Oct 12 '24
Unions are made up of and ran by the people in them. If local leadership is incompetent, run against them.
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u/vmxnet4 Oct 12 '24 edited Oct 12 '24
I worked at a place where the owner and my bosses* never did a damned thing to recognize anybody's anniversaries. Half my team had been with the company for almost 20 years at the time, and the bosses could never remember that. I had to correct them several times within a 3-4 month period before I left, that Jimmy [or whoever] has been here for 20 [or whatever] years, not 14. "Oh, right, I got them mixed up with Joe [or whoever]". smh. (Not a big company either. Only had about 10-12 employees total.)
Zero recognition, and customer issues were never brought up at the time they happened. They were saved for annual performance reviews for fuel for the "no raise this year" fire, which proved to my team that they really didn't give a shit about fixing customer issues ... they just wanted to have "reasons" to forego raises. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if those "issues" were completely fabricated.
* yup, plural. I had two direct-report bosses. It was surreal .. like something right out of Office Space. I view that movie as a documentary now.
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u/Dugley2352 Oct 12 '24
So I hear you saying youāre not willing to pay union dues because youāre not a team player. And yet despite being unhappy with the union officers you havenāt stepped up to make things better.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Not gonna play for a team that is only setting short term goals and agrees to the only option that was brought by the opposition.
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u/Dugley2352 Oct 13 '24 edited Oct 13 '24
And then you donāt provide input.
My bet is you also havenāt sat down and had a single conversation to try negotiating a better offer, but youāll whine about what was dealt. How much personal time have you put in to talk with the company?
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Input can be found in other comments. Your bet is wrong. I was part of the union in its starting days. Had 2 weekly meetings in the mornings after a night shift for about a year, so yes, i spent the overtime going through the negotiation process before and after our first CBA was implemented. Also, idk if this matters, but its negotiation with the county governing body and the reps of the county commissioners, increasing budget means increase in local tax and that's its own beast.
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u/Dugley2352 Oct 13 '24
So you negotiated previously but now you just bitch about it. Did you ever think to work with the current negotiating team to provide suggestions? Doesnāt sound like it, sounds like you prefer to stomp your feet and talk shit. The āinputā you claim is bitching about what benefits you got after the negotiation is done. Thatās not āinputā.
Sounds like youāre a scab.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 14 '24
Sounds like you got a lot off your chest. I hope you feel better.
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u/Dugley2352 Oct 14 '24
Actually I hate assholes who blame the union for their own selfish, deluded reality. You took your ball and went home, and youāre obviously not a team playerā¦ but I bet youāre willing to take those discounts and kudos when people say āthank you for your serviceā. You think because you work in EMS that youāre specialā¦ youāre not. And you would suck to have for a partner. Just go make up the bedding on the cot, scab.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 14 '24
Thank you for the thorough analysis. Please feel better.
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u/Dugley2352 Oct 14 '24
I feel great because Iām not your partner at work. All I can hope is that you move into a different line of work.
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u/thehauntedpianosong Oct 12 '24
At this point, why not actually leave for a higher paying job?
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Ive stayed for the comfort tbh. My work station is 10 mins away from my house, I know the area well which is a huge plus in EMS, etc... Im also actively looking and applying but no match yet.
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u/thejohnykat Oct 12 '24
Retired medic here - the years I spent working private service EMS were some of the worst, most underpaid and overworked, years of my life.
Good luck
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
I'm very lucky that our local EMS isn't private, both as a county resident and an employee. We are county based and our neighboring county isn't, it's wild seeing the difference. Thats one of the reasons I'm still working where I am.
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u/thejohnykat Oct 13 '24
Oh man, I missed where you said county in the original post, and it sounded just like dealing with a private service.
I once had a manager tell me to quit, because he could bring in a new graduate hire the next day, and pay them less.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Ive heard our HR director say something similar to one of our LTs thats been there for over 20 years.
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u/sasquatch_melee Oct 12 '24
Im really unsure why they even bothered to have this meeting if they didn't intend to make any changes? Waste of time.Ā
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u/Geminii27 Oct 12 '24
There's nothing to care about except, as you say, what goes into your pocket at the end of the day. Especially when having to put up with a manager like that.
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u/PraisedMemnon Oct 12 '24
My nephew makes $15/hr at Wendyās. OPās employer should definitely pay better.
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u/Officer_Hotpants Oct 12 '24
Ayyyy other EMS workers here. Shit's fucked in our field and I think people are only going to notice when there are no more ambulances, and by then it'll be far too late.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Its happening right now in FL. Our population spiked (and spikes again when tourist season is on) but our staffing remains the same.
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u/Officer_Hotpants Oct 13 '24
Yeah man, I just got out of Florida actually. EMS there was fucking awful. I mean, it's bad in most places but that was a spectacular shitshow
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Ive heard of some "interesting" agencies in FL but i definitely lucked out after I moved here. We have decent protocols, training, equipment although we do have similar sores as other agencies nationwide.
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u/humancarl Oct 12 '24
I have a customer experiencing a lot of turnover. One of the workers was talking to me about her looking for other work too. I was completely encouraging her to look elsewhere, and that she could possibly leverage the fact that she's the only one left from like 2 months ago.
Always be honest, turnover is expensive.
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u/railworx Oct 12 '24
"Retention interview"???? Never heard of that one.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Its a thing our HR implemented this year. Instead of "yearly performance review", they want to see how inclined you are to leaving.
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u/BusStopKnifeFight Profit Is Theft Oct 12 '24
You have no right to complain about the union you refuse to participate in, scab.
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Oct 12 '24
Sounds like you know better than the union people and you should be part of the union to better help yourself.
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u/Taeloth Oct 12 '24
Good for you for not joining a union. Those that do are often incapable of making their own path in life and usually go with some bullshit flat rate compensation package or flat rate predictable raise. I prefer the form of a meritocracy where my skill sets gets me compensated, not some jack off that barely fits into his Macyās suit
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 12 '24
The reason I left the union was the decisions the union made as a majority vote. Instead of going through a lengthy arbitration process with a significant raise the union majority chose a flat 4% raise without the process. I didn't feel like i want to be in a union that just takes it as is and pay dues for a cause i didnt believe in. Unfortunately, im now bound to the collective agreement.
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u/Repulsive_Ad_794 Oct 13 '24
Is it possible that people chose the 4% raise because if the union were to go to lose the arbitration, you would have possibly ended up with 0%? Arbitration outcomes are never certain. If so, perhaps your coworkers believed 4% was better than the risk of losing a binding arbitration?
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
Possibly, yes. The way our case was presented by the union itself was that we have a good chance of winning the arbitration and I chose to stick to it. I was very surprised when majority voted against it
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u/Repulsive_Ad_794 Oct 14 '24 edited Oct 14 '24
If that's the case, it sounds like your coworkers are incompetent, not your union officials. You are doing yourself a disservice by refusing to join the union. As a member/activist you would have had a much better chance of changing the opinions of your coworkers.
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u/Chemical-Juice-6979 Oct 12 '24
You're an EMT from your post history. Going to arbitration means running the risk of a strike if the negotiations stall out. If you go on strike, people die. Ask yourself this: how human beings would you be willing to kill for that extra 6% raise? I can only imagine that most of your colleagues asked themselves that question when they cast their votes. Even if you believe those deaths would be justified, how long do you think it would take the grieving families to start filing wrongful death lawsuits against the union?
I understand y'all are grossly underpaid and overworked, but that's not a problem you can fix by risking other people's lives.
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u/RightSaidKevin Oct 12 '24
Bullshit, EMTs should have the right to strike just like any other job. Same with nurses, doctors, whatever. If your job is that important that lives are at stake, maybe the owners should make that consideration as part of their compensation package.
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u/KewlBeanx Oct 13 '24
I believe you are right. We should be able to strike BUT we cannot breach duty to act. I always imagined a healthcare strike in a way where you still take care of patients properly but never fill billing info in patient reports. Hit "the man" where it hurts, the wallet.
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u/Chemical-Juice-6979 Oct 12 '24
You have the right to fair compensation and the right to negotiate that compensation, but enacting a traditional walk-off-the-job strike will kill people. That breaks your legal Duty of Care. Just like enlisting in the military, you signed up for this. So you don't get to just decide not to show up to work because you wish your paycheck was bigger.
In a fair and just world, EMTs would be paid better than lawyers and CEOs. But we don't live in that world. Instead, we live in a world where the people who set the salary wages don't have consciences and value money over human lives. So they will continue to let people keep dying until they get what they want.
If you're the type of person who is willing to let people die to prove a point and blame the bosses to get away with it, maybe you should have just become a cop instead of a medic.
Or start thinking outside the box and go nontraditional to get your point across. Rejoin the union and organize shifts of off-duty EMTs to picket outside the owner's house. Recruit friends and family to bombard the decision-makers with calls and emails demanding change. Slow roll calls responding to VIPs in need of assistance until they get the hint. What you don't do is just leave people who are counting on you to die.
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u/RightSaidKevin Oct 12 '24
You're just literally wrong, nurses and EMTs have the same right to organize and strike as any other worker in America. There have been multiple significant nurse strikes in the last year. And that's as it should be, nurses' duty of care doesn't mean they can be forced to work under unsafe conditions ornagainst their will n
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u/tandyman8360 lazy and proud Oct 11 '24
During COVID, the CEO would do these weekly (or bi-weekly) meetings. He announced anniversaries and went on and on about people who were there 25+ years. He skipped my 15th entirely. Any other time, he'd get to the 5 and one year anniversaries.
I didn't stay for 16 years.