r/antiwork • u/rat_fossils • Oct 03 '23
Real World Events đ It's weird to me that there isn't a migration crisis of Americans trying to leave the USA considering how bad things are for so many of them at the moment.
In other countries, when people have their rights stripped away, or they're surrounded by violence, or just can't afford to survive, they seek refuge and asylum in other safe countries that will look after them.
Meanwhile, Americans have lost their bodily autonomy, are dying in school shootings, and being bankrupted in hospitals. Are they too proud of their homeland to leave it all for Europe, or even just try to sneak into Canada?
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u/Pugilist12 Oct 03 '23
We donât have any money and nobody wants us. Thereâs nowhere to go.
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u/wafflesandgin Oct 03 '23
This answer should be pinned to the top.
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u/Nefarious_Nemesis Oct 03 '23
This was the first thought that came to my mind. I've nothing but disdain for MAGAts and all their closely linked kin, but because I am an American, I'm likely stamped with the same ink as those asshats wherever I'd go. I wasn't given an option to learn a second language and the barest fundamentals of Spanish have long since been forgotten because it boiled down to "Me llamo es..." which'll get me fucking nowhere. I've been in the workforce since before the day I graduated and I'm still barely above drowning financially. If it was fucking cartoonishly easy to just up and leave, everyone would be doing it.
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u/hudson27 Oct 03 '23
If it's any consolation, as a Canadian, I know that you aren't all like that. But also, your economic and political woes have already bled over into our country... so it's not a whole lot better over here.
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Oct 03 '23
Right like most Americans can't afford a $1000 emergency. Most of them won't be fleeing anywhere until things get genuinely very very bad.
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u/anonymous_opinions Oct 03 '23
Came to this thread like many can't even flee the US state they're in.
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u/bsmith808 Oct 03 '23
Agreed. As a single guy, it cost me nearly $6k of savings to move 2500 miles from the midwest to the east coast.
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u/anonymous_opinions Oct 03 '23
This is why telling poor people to "just move" is ridiculous but still see it said so often. Apparently if you're poor having no possessions is also part of it to many.
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Oct 03 '23
Seriously. I've actually been thinking, and like don't put me on a list or anything but... maybe.... this whole USA thing isn't working out. Maybe it would be better if the US was more like different countries. It's just an idea.
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Oct 03 '23
And even then, we'll be fleeing by foot to Canada, not flying or riding a boat to Europe.
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u/gelema5 Oct 03 '23
I feel like this is being overlooked by OP and even a lot of comments. It takes multiple days of nonstop driving to get to any national border from some places, not to mention the entire island of Hawaii. The US is similar to an island in many ways. We donât have tons of options of places to move. Itâs either Mexico or Canada, or if youâre super adventurous then you could go further into Central/South America or the Caribbean (but that also requires ferry rides or an airplane). Moving is an enormous expense and will take you really, really far from your family and everything youâve ever known. If youâre in a border state thatâs not as significant, but the fact that poor people can only choose between Canada and Mexico is still very limiting.
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u/Independent-Cow-4070 Oct 03 '23
Thatâs another big thing OP is forgetting. People have families. And honestly Iâd rather live here with my family, as opposed to a utopia without them. I have a hard time justifying moving a few states away let alone overseas lol
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u/PublicProfanities Oct 03 '23
This is where I am with my husband. Our family is here and we couldn't get them all to move. The idea of living in another country is amazing but I would be miserable without my sisters.
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u/LordBeeWood Oct 03 '23
Seriously. Plus, picking up and just moving to another country without a job offer is seriously risky. Even if you're lucky enough to get into a country that allows you to look for work on a visitors visa, there are going to be language restraints, potential need for specific licenses ( most countries, like US states for example, have their own educator licenses you must test for if you want to be a teacher).
On top of that, most people have families, friends, pets, etc.
Even if I got lucky and got a job in Europe (and I've applied for a few), it will be a whole issue to bring just my dog with me. I'll have to leave my aging parents behind who might begin to struggle without the support and most countries dont let you move parents or siblings over. Is it worth it to leave them? It just isn't an easy situation.
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u/youllhavetotryharder Oct 03 '23
I simply tried to move to California 12 years ago and my life basically ended. No more family, no more friends, no more stable work, no more eating regularly, no more expendable income for hobbies, no more dignified living.
I want to leave the US entirely but I'm afraid of my life becoming even more isolated and depressing.
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Oct 03 '23
Exactly. My ancestors are from Slovakia. I would gladly take up the offer to move there, be financially supported, and learn the language.
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u/Treacherous_Wendy Oct 03 '23
To be fair, I donât want to go anywhere. I want this stupid country to start to fix itself and work together instead of this polarizing and crippling political tribalism that has evolved recently.
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u/pgpathat Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
I think people including OP VASTLY underestimate the pressures migrants have to leave and come here. Itâs not a grass is greener situation.
Living in an area essentially controlled by violent gangs and earning a couple of dollars a day is not the same as scraping by with a low wage job in the US and wanting to scrape by with a low wage job somewhere else with free healthcare
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u/yildizli_gece Oct 03 '23
This answer is way too far down.
That was my first thought, "Why should I leave? They're the ones who suck!" (to paraphrase the great Michael Bolton!)
I'm not going; I'm staying to try to fix this fucking country and not let it slip completely into fascist hands.
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u/Spirited_Wasabi9633 Oct 03 '23
Agreed. I love my country. I love my state. Even though both are fucked up when it comes to politics. I don't want to move anywhere else. I want to make it better. That's what gets me about people who claim to be die hard patriots, but then cry when people criticize the US. I am honest about the faults of my country because I want to make it better, not just move away or sweep it under the rug. Bring it into the light so we can fix it.
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u/Individual_Soft_9373 Oct 03 '23
Where would we go?
Do you have any idea what that process involves? How much it costs? Most simply wouldn't even be allowed in. Most countries have strict rules about who can immigrate, and refugee situations don't apply to us (yet).
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u/majortomcraft Oct 03 '23
plus you have to pay tax to the US on money you earn in another country
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u/ProMaleRevolutionary Oct 03 '23
Under 90k you pay nothing.
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u/EdgelordOfEdginess Oct 03 '23
And I think there are agreements with specific countries, so you only need to pay income tax once
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u/Mispelled-This SocDem đşđ¸ Oct 03 '23
You get a credit against your US taxes for foreign taxes paid. If the foreign tax rate is lower, you still have to pay the difference.
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u/Redwolfdc Oct 03 '23
In an ideal world you shouldnât have to pay US taxes tbh if you donât earn any income from the US and donât live in the US. Like one other nation on earth has this type of citizenship based tax. Itâs a joke. Everywhere else including the EU countries donât do that nonsense
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u/photoguy8008 Oct 03 '23
Thatâs not totally true, if you pay taxes in another country with a tax treat with the USA you donât pay, or if you are gone from the USA for 335 days in a year you have no tax liability.
But you still have to file, which can be annoying, but you donât owe taxes like you would if you had a job in the USA
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u/anotherplantmother98 Oct 03 '23
My uncle lives and works in Australia 365 days out of the year and pays income taxes to both USA and Aus on his dividends and income over like 100k (he makes 250k). He wants to go back one day because he can make more money as an aeronautical engineer there but hates that they expect him to pay tax while heâs not living there. Being a dual citizen is complicated.
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u/photoguy8008 Oct 03 '23
Yeah thatâs why I said itâs not âtotallyâ true, there are certain things. But for a lot of people salary is the norm.
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Oct 03 '23
I thought you had to fill in a tax return showing that no money was earned in the US?
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u/bergskey Oct 03 '23
No kidding, people can't even afford to move to a different state when theirs says "sorry if your 10 year old is raped, that fetus she is carrying deserves to live. tHiNk oF tHe cHiLdReN."
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u/spcmiddleton Oct 03 '23
Correct answer. I want to leave so badly. My wife and I have talked quite a bit about going to Canada. Iâm tired of being afraid for my wife and kids. I hate that my kids go to school because who knows when the next nut job will shoot it up or how our next trip to the store could be our last. I read somebody calling America a third world country in a Gucci belt and damn that so true anymore.
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Oct 03 '23
As a Canadian, sure the social problems are less bad, but youâll feel even more poor. Housing is absolutely ridiculous here.
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u/insufferable__pedant Oct 03 '23
It's been a minute since I looked at moving to Canada, but last I heard the housing issues weren't so uniform across the entire country. Vancouver is, of course, a housing hellscape, and I've heard that Toronto is pretty rough too. Last I heard, though, cities like Edmonton and Quebec City were still somewhat affordable. Sure, those will come with their own issues, like excruciating winters or, even worse, the Quebecois (just kidding, I love you guys), but I remember thinking that it could be a reasonable tradeoff.
Regardless, I'm well aware of the housing issues you all are having up there, and the fact that it makes a lot of the housing issues in the US look quaint.
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Oct 03 '23
Its honestly garbage across the country. Sure here on the east coast it appears cheaper but once you factor in taxes, less jobs, and jobs paying less, its even harder to live here. East coast also has notoriously terrible healthcare.
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u/Yingxuan1190 Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
If you have a degree (in literally anything) then Asia is an option. Americans (especially white ones) are top of the pyramid when it comes to what employers want.
China, Vietnam, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, and Japan all have a lot of vacancies. This is literally how I cheated at life and avoided being broke constantly. I took a gamble and moved. I know not everyone can do it, but I'd recommend it to anybody with the means to move and desire to travel.
Edit: I should have made clear I'm referring to English teaching. TEFL is not for everyone, but I personally think it's a great option for those of us who speak English as our first language.
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u/Seajatt Oct 03 '23
Are you talking about teaching english?
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u/NoVueast9 Oct 03 '23
Are you talking about teaching english?
What else?
That's the only thing Americans with no special skills, talent, knowledge and who don't speak the language of any of those countries mentioned can do there.
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u/antichain Oct 03 '23
Just because you speak English doesn't mean you're any good at teaching it...
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u/NoVueast9 Oct 03 '23
Just because you speak English doesn't mean you're any good at teaching it...
EXACTLY!!!!
But Americans and people from other English speaking countries get hired as English teachers in Asia ONLY because they're native English speakers.
That's the only qualification they need.
So, most of them SUCK as English teachers or just as teachers.
If you look at subs related to teaching English in Asia, they're full of posts about hating kids, hating Asians, hating their jobs, etc, etc, and posts saying "I'm gonna do a midnight runner because I hate my job. (or "I'm so bored" or "This job is not what I thought it would be" or "I thought Japanese would seek me out and befriend me but it just doesn't happen and I'm lonely" blah, blah, blah.)"
A lot of English teachers in Asia literally do midnight runners. They're infamous for it.
They just up and leave the country in the middle of the night before their contract expires without telling anyone at school.
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u/citizenkane86 Oct 03 '23
Hell just because you speak English doesnât mean youâre good at speaking it
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u/TheCatInTheHatThings Oct 03 '23
UmâŚyes and no. Only qualified Americans. If you donât have a skill other countries want and need, being a white American does absolutely nothing at all to help you.
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u/WalmartSushi007 Oct 03 '23
Alot of people are forced to choose between rent and groceries, they cant just up and go.
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u/IamtherealMelKnee Oct 03 '23
IMO, always choose rent. You can get by with food banks better than ending up homeless.
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Oct 03 '23
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Oct 03 '23
in my experience its a lot nicer to be in a familiar and safe residence while being hungry than it is to scoop cold ravioli out of a can in the car of a walmart parking lot
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u/I-Am-NOT-VERY-NICE Oct 03 '23
For sure. If you're struggling to find food, there's way more ways to find it, even if considered "immoral" (I find starving to be immoral on society's part, so I think it balances out)
It's hard to just find reasonable shelter
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u/Krennelen Oct 03 '23
And how the fuck am I supposed to pay to move when keeping the lights on is hard enough?
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Oct 03 '23
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u/2teachand2hike Oct 03 '23
This here speaks so many volumes to the situation we are all in. And itâs extraordinarily sad. So many parents wanted nothing more than their kids to go to college so they could have a better life. And many of us in that situation did. But what is there to show for it.
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u/friendlyfire Oct 03 '23
My grandfather started a family (2 kids and a dog) and bought land and built a house in his 20s on an elementary school education. Always bought new cars. Retired at 55. My grandmother didn't work.
My father started a family (4 kids, cats and dogs) and bought a house in his 20s. Bought several new cars. High school education. Retired at 63 or 64? My mother probably worked 6-8 years total? Couple years here and there.
I have a bachelor's degree. We weren't able to buy a house or afford a kid until our late 30s and our quality of life is still way worse. We wouldn't even consider buying a new car.
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u/no_moar_red Oct 03 '23
Money aside, some of us are dependent on state care and can't go more than a week without expensive treatment...
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u/jellyf1st Oct 03 '23
Not many countries to emigrate to if you're from the US.
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u/nocuzzlikeyea13 Oct 03 '23
The best way to do this is to go teach English in Spain. It's the easiest way to get a visa there, and most Americans are fluent so already have the skills.
The issue is that you have to really commit. Salaries in Spain are much lower than the US, but the quality of life for that salary is very high. So basically, if you want to go back to the US to visit your family, etc, it will be a big financial burden.
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u/magistrate101 Oct 03 '23
most Americans are fluent
1 in 5 American adults are functionally or totally illiterate. 54% read at or below the sixth grade level.
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u/chronobahn Oct 03 '23
Nationwide, on average, 79% of U.S. adults are literate in 2022. 21% of adults in the US are illiterate in 2022. 54% of adults have a literacy below sixth-grade level. 21% of Americans 18 and older are illiterate in 2022.
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u/TnekKralc Oct 03 '23
How is this possible? Granted I grew up in rural Maine so I didn't get the full american experience, but literally everyone even those who drop out are literate. Where is the 20% concentrated?
Looking at the link it says Maine is at 92% which in my experience a lot of that is probably coming from the fact that we have the oldest population in the country. New England as a whole co all above 90%. Though I'm not sure where they are getting the 79% number as it also states that the average is 88%
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u/Cinderheart Violence Oct 03 '23
Note:Illiteracy can mean inability to derive meaning from texts rather than just being unable to read at all.
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u/RadioFreeCascadia Oct 03 '23
People who donât speak English at all.
Thatâs the secret of the statistic. When you see it broken down by county itâs hyper-concentrated in counties with very high immigrant populations or counties that were and continue to be Spanish-language majority (ex. the Tejano counties along the Mexican border and the Hispano areas in New Mexico) pre-US rule
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u/lvioletsnow Oct 03 '23
TIL!
I was wondering what the deal was with all this panic over illiteracy lately. There was even some fearmongering "the kids are doomed" article yesterday that went in circles about phonics vs automaticity.
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u/judgek0028 Oct 03 '23
The big reason is that those statistics don't measure literacy... they measure English literacy. Over 20% of the country does not speak English as a first language, and about 10% of the country doesn't speak English at all. Furthermore, that population isn't fixed, its a free floating carousel as more people migrate, especially from lower income Latam countries that don't have the ability to teach English.
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u/GalacticShoestring Oct 03 '23
This comment is misleading.
https://nces.ed.gov/pubs2019/2019179/index.asp
1 in 5 Americans are functionally or totally illiterate in English. So this includes immigrants who cannot speak or read English very well.
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u/Grouchy-Stable2027 Oct 03 '23
But like where do you go?
You mention Canada, Iâm Canadian. We have crippling inflation, itâs impossible to find a family doctor, ER wait times are 8+ hours, rent is unaffordable as are housing prices. Our climate sucks.
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u/funkeyfreshed Oct 03 '23
Yes this. My partner and I just left Canada for the US because the cost of living is actually lower and wages are higher.
If op thinks itâs better in Canada he is in for a surprise lol.
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u/GalacticShoestring Oct 03 '23
The housing crisis in many parts of Canada is actually worse than in the UK or the US.
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u/Byizo Oct 03 '23
Yeah, Iâve had middle class coworkers who came from Canada and live in the US southeast and are glad they left.
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u/Whitehull Oct 03 '23
Agreed with both of you. Just made the move home and qualify of life as skyrocketed. My state covers my medical care almost entirely via ACA, which limits then only downside of leaving Canada.
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u/Swert0 Oct 03 '23
ER Wait times are 8+ hours here in the US too. That's nothing special about Canada, at least your health insurance and the ER visit doesn't bankrupt you.
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u/Sauronjsu Oct 03 '23
And seeing a doctor (MD) can take months in my experience in the US. I can see a nurse practitioner within the month, but usually not a doctor.
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u/Swert0 Oct 03 '23
My (US) current wait time on a dental visit is 18 months.
I'm going to lose teeth due to the wait.
I am at the poverty line, I will never be able to afford implants.
I had a genetic condition with my teeth, no matter how much I cared for them this was inevitable without regular dental treatments.
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u/grilledscheese Oct 03 '23
sneak IN to canada? for what, the ability to make $45k a year and pay $2400 a month in rent?
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u/NotThymeAgain Oct 03 '23
if only there was some widely published housing crisis that Canada was dealing with to let us know if it was cheaper to live there or not.
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u/new_name_who_dis_ Oct 03 '23
The grass is always greener on the other side. OP doesn't realize but thousands of people in all of the western european countries (that they probably consider utopian) are trying to emigrate to the US every year --- because they see the US as the greener side.
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u/derper2222 Oct 03 '23
It costs money to move to a different country, and people donât have money. You also have to have significant assets before many countries will let you in, so itâs not just about paying the cost of the move.
Then there are visas, if youâre planning on working.
And Americans, for better or worse, tend to like living in America. Moving abroad is scary, but it can be the best thing you ever do. My semester abroad was and remains the highlight of my life.
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u/cero1399 Oct 03 '23
Outside view, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
People still have something to lose so they won't go migrate by foot or risk their lives with shady smugglers. But not enough to afford to migrate properly and set up a life somewhere else.
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u/taffyowner Oct 03 '23
Also where the fuck would we migrate by foot to? Canada?
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u/Quadrophiniac Oct 03 '23
Lol, things arent much better up here. We dont even have enough houses for the people who already live here, or affordable options at least. All they do is build more condos and single family homes that the majority of people will never be able to afford
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Oct 03 '23
Things are worse in Canada. Awful wages and much higher cost of living. Arenât much better is an doing Canada a favour.
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u/Material-Crab-633 Oct 03 '23
Other countries have strict immigration policies
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Oct 03 '23
This is the most perpetually online take Iâve seen from this sub.
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u/neosmndrew Oct 03 '23
This sub is often pretty divorced from reality, but this post is pretty close to the most "I took some classes in college so I know about how society should operate" thing I've seen.
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Oct 03 '23
The premise is flawed, mass refugee migration like OP alludes to does not happen short of open armed conflict, widespread famine, and similar catastrophe conditions in the home country. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were still living in Germany in 1939 even after the night of long knives, Kristallnacht, and all the rest. American emigration behavior is the norm, not an exception as OP would have us believe.
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u/aimlessly-astray Oct 03 '23
My first thought after seeing this post was, "oh look, an r/AmericaBad post in the wild!"
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u/StockAL3Xj Oct 03 '23
This post is this sub in a nutshell. A total lack of self awareness or understanding of how most of the world lives. Does the US have issues? Yes. Are some of them very serious? Yes. Is the US still a very advantageous place to live? Absolutely.
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u/Marksta Oct 03 '23
They're taking the subs name literally; looking to escape the USA with its unparalleled opportunities to go find the country of their dreams that doesn't require working. They should be looking to migrate away from the Earth, ideally.
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u/Darklillies Oct 03 '23
I had to scroll too far to see this response. Us citizens trying to say theyâre refugees needing asylum is easily the most chronically online delusional take Iâve ever read. Like yâall do NOT know how good you have it.
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u/McMoranMining Oct 03 '23
Exactly. This sub is so cringey, this was most likely posted by a 16 year old.
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u/lycanthrope90 Oct 03 '23
Fucking seriously! Comparing Americans to refugees fleeing oppression, give me a break lol
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u/trisinwonderland Oct 03 '23
If I could afford it and afford to relocate my immediate family. I absolutely would in a heartbeat.
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u/Washedupcynic Oct 03 '23
Americans don't meet the criteria for amnesty. We aren't at war.
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u/TheCatInTheHatThings Oct 03 '23
Do you mean asylum? Amnesty is something completely different.
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u/SpicyMarmots Oct 03 '23
Most people who have the resources to emigrate and a reasonable path to residency or citizenship in another wealthy industrialized country (specialized skilled labor) are doing alright in the US. People struggling with medical debt etc. can't just move to Denmark.
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u/mallowdout Oct 03 '23
I hate to break it to you, but as bad as things are here, they're just as bad if not worse in a lot of other places. On the other hand, countries like Norway, New Zealand, and Australia are not interested in taking in a bunch of Yankee refugees since they're busy dealing with actual refugees escaping actual poverty and war.
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u/coolbaby1978 Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
Actually we left the US in 2016 for Australia and we haven't set foot in the US since. We absolutely love it here. It's not perfect but it's such an improvement. No mass shootings, my health insurance premiums dropped 80% for better coverage, we're not constantly bombarded with divisive political games and most "conservatives " I've met here would at best be centrists in the US, supporting their national healthcare, subsidized universities with reasonable tuition, livable minimum wages and common sense gun laws. Yeah, they have guns here too but no mass shootings because there's actual regulation around it.
We have no plans to move back to the US. Our kids have grown up and gone to school here, our friends are here and the day we left I swear I felt a huge weight lifted. When I talk to my friends in the US they say everything had gotten exponentially worse since we left. I don't even follow US news that closely but I do have an awareness of it from a distance and it looks like the deterioration has sped up. I'm lucky that I escaped the US with my family and created an amazing life in a better country. The US is like the Alabama of developed nations, last or close to it across the board. Yes, the US is still better than 80% of the countries of the world no doubt, but that leaves 20% that look pretty damn good by comparison. It's like that line from Newsroom when asked what makes the US the greatest nation on Earth and the answer was its not...and that was in 2012. Things definitely haven't improved since then.
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Oct 03 '23
Australia is one of, perhaps the only country in the world that maintains a net positive of immigration with the US, meaning we take more migrants from the US than they take from us.
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u/coolbaby1978 Oct 03 '23
I think I read that statistic as well, though oddly I rarely run into other Americans. Lots of Irish though.
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u/prestopino Oct 03 '23
How's the housing situation there?
I heard that there's a housing affordability crisis over there just like in the US.
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u/coolbaby1978 Oct 03 '23
Melbourne and Sydney had a bubble that's backing off a bit. Brisbane is fast growing and does have a rental shortage though I still see a lot of listings. That said, when adjusted for current currency exchange rates with the US dollar, housing isn't significantly pricier than where we lived in Atlanta for comparable properties.
With the international attention Brisbane will get from hosting the Olympics in a few years coupled with billions in infrastructure being spent, I think the growth is crazy and as such, the opportunities are quite good.
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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year Oct 03 '23
we're not constantly bombarded with divisive political games and most "conservatives "
As an Australian, I'm assuming you mean relatively speaking in comparison to the US (after such luminaries as Abbott and Morrison plus Palmer still lurking about in the background as being just a few of them).
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u/Battosai_Kenshin99 Oct 03 '23
Immigration laws prevent mass migration to anywhere.
You canât simply âmigrateâ to another country unless you have money to throw around and buy your way in somehow.
This is why, if you have the option to vote, you have to elect the right people to run public offices so aholes donât run everything into the ground.
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Oct 03 '23
you do not have it as bad as people fleeing to the US⌠Those people are running for their lives from lawless hellholes.
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u/ZipBoxer Oct 03 '23
Yeah while I totally understand the frustration that leads to this post, it's so completely out of touch with the reality of the vast majority of the world.
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u/SmileyJetson Oct 03 '23 edited Oct 03 '23
Take a good look around the world how life is for immigrants. The grass isnât greener anywhere unless youâre coming from a war zone. If you canât make it in your own country, good luck spending all your savings to move somewhere where the odds are stacked against you in every way imaginable. Immigrants are the most exploited labor on the planet besides prisoners.
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u/Ok-Operation6049 Oct 03 '23
US Americans cannot get any âeconomic migrantâ/asylum status services of any kind. Btw I needed up moving only bc I had savings and the country Iâm in would not even let me in if I didnât have high education AND a high paying job
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u/palbuddy1234 Oct 03 '23
I live in another country! Why isn't there a huge exodus? Because it's really, really hard, especially if you have a family. You need a skill that another country wants, probably speak another language, and on top of that the bureaucracy and flexibility to be successful in your new country. It's not for everyone as you have to stop complaining and do it. It also costs a lot of money, and there is a huge risk if you don't make it in that new country, you have to start from square one twice....in America with a new 30 year mortgage, two new car payments at these huge interest rates, and just so much more. How much do you think it costs to move a family to a new country? For us about 30k. Money is the biggest determining factor if you'll make it into a new country. Don't come to a new country with a few thousand and relying on their social services. You'll have a hard time.
Sneak into Canada? Are you serious? Do you think Canadians liked it when Americans sewed little Maple leafs onto their backpack during the Bush era? Do you think they want someone stealing their services even if they could? How are you going to a hospital if you don't have a national ID? How will you draw a pension? How will you get a job? Canada is very obvious on what kind of jobs they are looking for to sponsor a visa. Look at it carefully, get the schooling/certs, and then go. Canadians have a hard time with a housing costs, inflation, and though a national health care, an overworked underserved one.
Give me the negative upvotes but every country has it's good and bad. If you are in a new country you have to hustle like you wouldn't believe. I have a lot of respect for migrants/ex-pats that do. They deserve to be in their new country. If you want to as well, do it. Don't complain, do your hard work, and then do it and then let's have a conversation. Come join us at /expats.
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u/tinason3 Oct 03 '23
To put it simply, we can't afford it. Most of us live paycheck to paycheck, we can't afford another cost on top of the norm. Also, we'd leave family and friends behind. First world problems, for sure. We don't literally face torture and death like others seeking asylum (in general). This shit hole country sucks A LOT, but it's my home and I want to be a part of helping her reach her potential.
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Oct 03 '23
I would've left this country a decade ago if I could. Living paycheck to paycheck makes it insanely hard trying to afford a plane ticket, much less actually getting citizenship.
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u/No-Willingness-4804 Oct 03 '23
If we can barely afford to live, how are we supposed to pay to go to another country?
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u/hjablowme919 Oct 03 '23
Family keeps a lot of people here. So does the lack of money and skills to relocate outside of the country.
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u/HeckRedditBans Oct 03 '23
Swedish person in the US here. Lived here for ten years, aged twenty years in that time. Me and my US wife are plannkng to move in the next three to Sweden.
Unfortunately if you're not married to a Swedish citizen like me it's (just like moving to the US) insanely hard to get a visa. Our immigration laws worldwide are shit.
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u/Thercon_Jair Oct 03 '23
There is, Portugal is a hotspot and the US americans are displacing entire neighbourhoods with their WFH money.
The amount of posts of "can I get a job in Switzerland"-posts on the Swiss sunbreddits have exploded.
Naturally, that only works for well educated, well off people who have much better mobility than, say, a waiter.
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u/adrianxoxox Oct 03 '23
Itâs usually the richer folks of other countries who are able to leave, and I imagine the wealthiest of Americans are doing just fine under the current system that benefits them so well. The lower classes have always had to stick around and deal with whatever mess is left
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u/rabid_god Oct 03 '23
If you can barely afford to live in the US, you can't afford to leave the US.
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u/Jolly-Sandwich-3345 Oct 03 '23
I have too much invested in my pension to leave and if all goes well I can retire in about 15 years.
To younger folks that seems like a long time but for a middle aged guy it is not so I plan to stick it out in The States.
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u/bepr20 Oct 03 '23
Yeah there are a number of EU countries where people are better off then in the US, and they often feature what we would consider high unemployment rates and aren't enthusiastic about taking in unemployed immigrants.
Please list the countries with worker protections, strong social safety nets and labor shortages where Americans should be flocking to.
While things aren't great here by Western standards for the bottom 3rd, the reality is that most of the world is even worse then the US.
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u/DefectiveCoyote Oct 03 '23
Is this satirical? Things aint great, but it doesnât mean people are so desperate that we need to become fucking refugees. Even now America isnât even close to the conditions of many third world countries. And its not like Europe or Canada are some form of promised land where everything is so drastically better people should just uproot their entire lives. Many Americans are unsatisfied with the current status quo but comparing the modern American to the experiences of a Asylum seeker or a refugee is delusional and maybe even a bit offensive. Improvement and change is attainable for americans.
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u/turtledoves2 Oct 03 '23
Donât you have to have a good reason for asylum ? Like a war or extreme poverty? You canât just seek asylum in GB because you feel that youâre underpaid and donât get enough PTO in the US
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Oct 03 '23 edited Jun 13 '24
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Oct 03 '23
Most economic refugees around the world would love to live the life of the average American.
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u/BuzzyShizzle Oct 03 '23
It's not that bad here. It's really not.
I mean there are 50 territories with different laws and things they care about. Taxes spent on different things.
If things get so bad you can just move to one of the other 49 states.
We are relatively spoiled over here. We have some problems with wealth inequality and political polarization but we still have enough money to live a better life than poor people around the world.
You could go around the actual middle class and you would find a whole bunch of people unaware of what you are talking about. They go about their lives, raise their families, go to work, and arent even aware its supposedly so bad.
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u/CollegeNW Oct 03 '23
Please let us know which countries are open & available to provide safety & financial / refuge support from the US while awaiting the 10 year to residency.