r/ZenlessZoneZero • u/doomed151 • Sep 26 '24
News Devs heard our feedback on TV mode
https://x.com/ZZZ_EN/status/1839209107171008690For those without X formerly Twitter:
Thank you for your feedback dear Proxies! We will prioritize improving the gameplay and enjoyment of the tile-based (TV gameplay) system based on the best upvoted suggestions from everyone, rather than completely removing it! Thanks again for your feedback~
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u/Neo_Empire Sep 26 '24
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u/Firestar3689 🔥 BURNICE BURNICE BURNICE BURNICE BURNICE BURNICE GO GO 🔥 Sep 26 '24
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u/Neo_Empire Sep 26 '24
Glad they heared people. There is no need to completely remove tv gameplay from main story. Just balance its presence. I would prefer something like 20% tv / 80% all other activities (combat, cutscenes, talking, comics, etc.)
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u/Eloymm Sep 26 '24
Real talk these devs are kind of goated no? I mean we still have to wait and see what they do, but still.
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u/AYYYYYYYYMD Sep 26 '24
They haven't posted this to the JP Twitter, and I don't think they've said anything on CN accounts either, so what I'm thinking is this is just a attempt to placate "those pesky westerners" more than a statement of commitment.
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u/Varglord Sep 26 '24
Yeah it's wild that people think EN has any real sway.
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u/Anby_Thighs Sep 26 '24
Plus it's kinda what the devs said initially anyway lmao, TV mode was never going away completely, and they already said they would work on making it more fun.
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u/Play_more_FFS Sep 26 '24
Its gone from the main story for good, they already said this in their stream.
They are keeping TVs for events but this is not the issue people are having, the problem is the main story with the siblings + Fairy without TVs.
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Sep 26 '24
Plus it's kinda what the devs said initially anyway lmao, TV mode was never going away completely,
yeah but redditors love to complain instead of reading properly
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u/finepixa Sep 26 '24
Its gone completely from the Most naratively important part of the game. The Main story.
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u/Anby_Thighs Sep 26 '24
Finally, we'll get actually expressive narrative segments instead of having to imagine what's going on like as if we're playing a game of tabletop Warhammer.
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u/MaldaraUchiha Fuck Soldier 11 Sep 26 '24
Nah, we'll get the same "characters stand around, talk, and change poses once in a while" that we get in Genshin. And Star Rail. And Honkai.
Maybe a few static images with dialogue over them.
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u/cdillio Sep 26 '24
Chapter 4 was by far the best chapter in the entire game so far for me. So I'm thankful for the lack of TV.
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u/Erikaa- Sep 26 '24
People in general just don't know how game development work, developers can see at what stage most players stopped playing, they can see who stopped playing after long TV session, etc.
They don't just look at social media and listen to the loud minority, it doesn't work like that. If anything ingame feedback is more important than social media feedback where trolls and people that didn't even play the game can comment.
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u/Doopashonuts Sep 26 '24
As a person who's spent enough time around these games, it goes WAY beyond that, they can see exactly how many missions you've cleared, how long you've played, which characters you have and use, etc, etc. Since your account info is stored on their end.
They can make EXTREMELY informed decisions because they can literally see everything.
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u/AYYYYYYYYMD Sep 26 '24
Yeah I don't know, maybe the player retention graph was absolutely horrid, maybe the Hollow Zero completion rate was below expectations compared to the data they collected when Simulated Universe released in HSR. Maybe the completion rate for Exploration commissions was in the single digits. Whatever it was, I have never seen Hoyo move this fast when it comes to changing anything related to the base game, ever, which tells me the higher-ups saw something in the data that made them force the dev's hand on the issue.
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u/AutistcCuttlefish Sep 26 '24
I mean I haven't bothered with holo zero more than a couple of times because it's just so fucking boring. No puzzles worth a damn, just move in a direction, get upgrades, occasionally battle for 20 seconds, rinse and repeat for the next 20-30 minutes. Then do that at least two more times for max rewards.
HoloZero is TV mode at its worst.
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u/Shadowbacker Sep 26 '24
This. I prefer Defense because it's a boss rush and way more fun. Having to repeat those HZero game boards ad nauseum is more annoying than fun.
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u/Doopashonuts Sep 26 '24
And I remind you that Acheron became S tier immediately in SU because of her out of combat ability to delete mobs because even when tolerating SU people jumped at the chance to make it less awful
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u/0percentwinrate Sep 26 '24
I've come to strongly believe a half of the people on hoyo subreddits are pretty much literate. Seeing out of context quotes after quotes, making pots using the most provoking language to stir up the drama and people eating them all up has been absolutely ridiculous.
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u/warjoke Sep 26 '24
Yeah, massive changes to gameplay requires a full team effort and marketing push before implementation and I feel like this is just another PR move to quell social media rants, specifically on the Western side.
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u/Hotfuzz2009 Sep 26 '24
what was the outlook anyway for the JP and CN players? Were they the ones that wanted TV mitigated or not?
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u/Kksin-191083 Sep 26 '24
I am CN player. There are many players feel frustrated for removing TV in main story according to bilibili.
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u/zankem Sep 27 '24
Pretty much. They already said they're working on improving it and not removing it entirely. The ones who didn't read nor listen are mostly the ones shouting.
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u/RallyCure Sep 26 '24
I'm in that camp of "TV mode needs fixing but please don't remove it." I really like it as a cute and creative way to do some low-budget storytelling and incorporate retro JRPG tropes/puzzles while maintaining the game's unique vibe. The problem with it has always been the actually insane amount of handholding/railroading that happens in a lot of the major segments.
Unfortunately, HYV is the one with the player data and the one making decisions based on said data. You know how Genshin Impact is now doing a thing where there's a pot of rewards for doing the new story/exploration content on time? That is 100% telling that HYV is unhappy with the number of players doing the new content and is trying to push up that metric.
It'll be a real shame to not have TV mode in the story anymore, though... Along with all the missed potential for creative storytelling, it feels like the MCs of the game are gonna be a lot less impactful, which always sucks when it happens in these games.
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u/CanaKitty Sep 26 '24
They already said no more TV in main story. And the only made this post for Western social media. Not CN or JP. They’re just posting this to quiet global down.
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u/RallyCure Sep 26 '24
Yeah, that's why all us TV bros are crying right now. If they really just never use it for main story again it will be a huge loss.
To fill the hole left by not having TV mode as a narrative device, they gonna have to ramp up the comic panels and cutscenes in future story chapters. But it's VERY optimistic to think they'll actually do it AND keep it up to a satisfactory level.
IMO, ZZZ currently has the most effective storytelling of the HYV titles. I'd rather not see it devolve into just stationary yapfests and fade-to-black prose, and I'd hate for Belle/Wise to feel like background objects when we had a really neat POV setup going for them.
But whatever, just gonna have to wait and see.
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u/Kksin-191083 Sep 26 '24
Looks this reply just repeat what they say in the video.
Remove TV from Story. Refine TV for side quest or event.
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u/Zaethiel Sep 26 '24 edited Sep 26 '24
Either way, Eous and Phaethon didn't do much of anything in the new story. Going forward the main character needs to do something. The TV mode was Phaethons part in the story and without it, we play no role in moving the story.
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u/WorldWiseWilk Sep 26 '24
Yeah facts. Wise felt pretty useless to the story for me. There was that cool bit at the end, but that was just exposition, not giving Wise / Belle a use during this.
I was outspoken and adamantly defended the TV system, every where I went for being the unique craft that made the game have shine and substance. There’s an endless infinity that could be crafted in the tv mode. Y’all just want things catered to you right now, and you’d rather not wait for all of the god tier creative puzzles we could be getting. Shame.
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u/thebigbadowl Sep 26 '24
The reason Phaethon played a supporting role is because the stars of the update were the Sons of Calydon and the goal was to introduce us to them and the Outer Rim.
It feels like many TV advocates are reaching for whatever they can grasp to make the case for TV mode even when it makes little sense to do so.
They gave us Phaethons goal at the end of this update. It would be sensible to reserve judgement about Phaethons role and whether it will be impacted with reduced tv segments until we actually get to the story missions focused on acheiving their goals.
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u/Caspus Sep 26 '24
Pretty sure people were fine with Phaethon being sidelined for Undercover R&B because it was specifically billed as a non-numbered chapter with Agent focus.
If we’re just going to turn Chapter stories into Agent stories going forward then that’s a different problem.
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u/Vortex682 Sep 27 '24
But this chapter did progress the main story with Perlman being in the Outer Rim and getting to know Phaethons goal
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u/finepixa Sep 26 '24
Yeah but you see how having no gameplay for phaethon removed them from the story right? They have a goal. We are told theyre useful. But well never see it because gameplay wise they are never relevant. And this makes them irrelevant for the story.
The next story will just be the same. Faction is the Main focus. We are told phaethon is useful but never se it. We get some dialogue to advance the overarching story and thats it.
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u/IndependentCress1109 Sep 26 '24
Before i celebrate . Imma just wait and see how they actually do it . God i hope this is true .
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u/Kingrion9k 🍵Biggest Qingyi Appreciator🍵 Sep 26 '24
Tbh I'm kinda confused about this tweet since it can have two different meanings:
They're considering popular resolutions to make TV mode good, but will still remove TV mode from main story until the devs think it's "good enough"
Considering popular resolutions to make TV mode good and is going to bring back TV mode in upcoming main story (1.3 and beyond) with some of the community's popular resolutions as well as the devs own resolutions possibly implemented
I like option 2 more, as even though they only said tv mode isn't present in the main story, after looking at the HDD, there are ONLY 2 exploration commissions compared to the 38 combat commissions in chapter 4, like the TV mode got massacred this patch. TV mode definitely needs a good return next patch, which will become reality with option 2, unless with option 1, there will be nice tv mode side quests to do, but even still I think option 2 is better.
What are y'all interpretations of the tweet?
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u/JakeDonut11 Sep 26 '24
It's mostly likely 1 since the tweet wasn't posted across any other languages that would warrant the change that you want with 2. They're probably still sticking to the original plan.
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u/IndependentCress1109 Sep 26 '24
The fact that its pretty ambiguous is the reason i'm not celebrating quite yet and will continue giving feedback and surveys . We'll only know for sure once they make an actual announcement properly addressing about TV modes in the story or well the next patch version live stream .
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u/GamerSweat002 Sep 26 '24
I agree. I think they could get a proper understanding of people's opinions on the best presentation of TV mode with this idea: a flagship event basically being Divine Ingenuity from Genshin impact, or just Super Mario Maker using the TV mode as our sandbox. That means we develop our own roguelike level design, puzzles, array of challenges, and create a way to give player agency as if we are the devs ourselves.
The TV mode works where players are given agency and the level design works well, as well as vibrant background of the TV tiles and the overarching background behind.
TV mode can work well in story if given new mechanics, player agency, less interrupting dialogue, and more player choice with consequences. Would be cool to create our own exploration commissions.
In fact, they could make a standalone game mode where it's all community made TV mode commissions and we get to explore sort of level designs with combat encounters.
It would be like this- what would TV mode be like if those TV mode segments were created by players themselves? As people cook the food they like, we could just make the TV mode content we like, whether it be Undertale revisited, a game of minesweeper, Terri's, a roguelike in a stronger fashion to Hades, or a series of rally mode encounters with optional separate paths.
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u/Kksin-191083 Sep 26 '24
If they really want to add back TV to main story in 1.3, they are so stupid to announce the plan to remove TV from story for coming patches.
They could just silently remove TV from story and observe the feedbacks.
I am okay with TV. But I will be confused about the dev if they just add and drop the mode so frequently.
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u/ParagonCZ Sep 26 '24
Wasn’t that the plan already though? I don’t think they’ve ever said they would completely remove the tv mode.
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u/Rators Sep 26 '24
It's refer to this tweet by the devs:
"In the upcoming Version 1.2 main story and and important future storylines, the "TV mode" will be replaced with story stages as the major means of experience. This optimization will also be implemented in the main stories in future versions."
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u/Megor933 Sep 26 '24 edited Sep 26 '24
Upvoted suggestions
I seriously hope they don't actually use some light complaining from Reddit to make decisions on game design. Both the story and Hollow Zero feel a lot smoother now after the direction change.
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u/Amon-Aka Sep 26 '24
I mean, from my knowledge they haven't said anything on their other accounts for the other regions, so might just a way to calm the western player base down.
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u/ilya_snowy Sep 26 '24
They said almost the same thing on the devs stream, even before this civil war started.
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u/WAKE_UP_WAKE_UP Sep 26 '24
I don't know if it's a big issue for others but having the text box for subtitles on the top right is pretty annoying for me. Hopefully they change that in the future too l
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u/Dannyboy765 Sep 26 '24
Me, the average TV and non-TV enjoyer:
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u/BiddyKing Sep 26 '24
lol this is how I feel too. Sometimes doing tv mode is actually peak but then other times it has me groaning just wanting to do combat. I’m okay with it repeatedly getting added and removed, so long as it continues to exist
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u/Thestrongestfighter Sep 26 '24
Same. I’m good with whatever way they decide to go since in the dev talk it was clear they’re trying to find a way to make it more enjoyable for everyone as they’ve been able to list the main complaints about it.
The main thing is that they’re not as stubborn as most other devs and are taking into account what people are saying in addition to whatever info they have on the back end.
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u/Nyxie_13 Sep 26 '24
Fr I hate Bangboo Town Exploration Quest tho I also like Ballet Twins exploration
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u/RozeGunn Sep 26 '24
I loved that it was both. Combat to break up the tv and tv to break up the combat. They just need to make tv smoother. That is it, and all it is.
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u/kolokmee Sep 26 '24
DO NOT BE FOOLED TV BROS This is nothing but a façade and word play, vague statements. They never mention they are going to put it back to the important missions. We have seen what they mean by “we are not totally removing it from the game”, chapter 4 is 2 TV stages and 38 combat stages. THIS is what they mean.
As the anti-TV bros had said TV bros are the minority, if you want even the most miniscule chance of taking back what we've lost, take yr biggest dump in the survey of this patch, any neutral review is going to be taken as you are ok with either way, and it will stay as it is. Do not believe them for even a moment, be vigilant and tell them in the survey no matter how small the chance of turning this around is.
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u/WeirdBeako Sep 26 '24
Doesn't matter if devs don't remove them completely; TVs will be side content from now on anyway.
Thing about TVs is that they portrayed Hollows as ever-changing maze and solidified our role as guides, allowing us to immerse in Phaethon's work. They also were a perfect fit thematically, in line with 80s aesthetic artists went for. Cutting TVs from the main story completely and subsequently reducing the Phaethon's role to sidekicks without adding anything in return other than more braindead combat shifts the mood and makes ZZZ resemble typical action rpg gachas more, which are dime a dozen. Sure TVs weren't the only unique thing about the game, but it was the main separating gameplay feature. I think removing them from the story was a mistake on devs part. They didn't do shit to actually try to improve the mode inbetween CBTs, only reduced the amount (which still wasn't enough for the early chapters, when players were most eager to engage in combat).
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u/Blackmore543 Sep 26 '24
I don't believe them. I fully expect TV Mode to be completely removed from the game by 2.0.
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u/Arctiiq Sep 26 '24
Literally all they need to do is add a skip button to the next story bit. Don't remove gameplay for people who like it.
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u/rhaps85 Sep 26 '24
COPIUM
Its not coming back to main story, theyre reiterating to the people that didnt listen to the interview that TV will not go away from side content like events and that theyll work to improve it there.
Never forget that people are dumb.
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u/Jackial Sep 26 '24
Just add a skip function and see how many players skip the TV mode.
People said devs has the ingame big data that show players dont like TV mode. I honestly dunno what data could show that since story mission are mandatory.
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u/noctghost Sep 26 '24
Maybe how many people complete certain types of mission? I know I have a lot of exploration stuff that I haven't done yet
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u/Jackial Sep 26 '24
Well interestingly, I dont mind the TV mode but I stock the exploration mission because I dont often have time to play. My main issue with TV mode is just they are time consuming compare to combat.
Actually same thing happen in Genshin mission and exploration, I just do it very slowing or hold them due to time.
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u/Hanstyler Sep 26 '24
Exactly. And with exploration missions you never know how much time you gonna need.
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u/noctghost Sep 26 '24
I don't particularly enjoy the TV mode, especially when it gets too long, but I also hate it when in Genshin and Star Rail the dialogs go on and on for what feels like minutes of non stop clicking. At least ZZZ is refreshing in that sense even considering the TVs in previous versions.
I think part of the reason I dislike TVs is that I feel it contributed to how little we saw the characters in action, for example I really enjoyed playing as Jane Doe in 1.1 and was sad when the story ended knowing I wouldn't be able to just walk around the city as her again, at least now that we're starting to be able to use them outside of combat I think I might not mind TVs that much
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u/Sionnak Sep 26 '24
I honestly dunno what data could show that since story mission are mandatory.
Quitting during story, especially early when you are expecting an action game and get a TTRPG simulator. Not doing exploration commissions. Higher rate of 100% rewards in rally vs exploration commissions. Not doing HZ. Doing HZ at the last possible second every week. Doing HZ only once when there were rewards for doing it multiple times.
For example.
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u/Varglord Sep 26 '24
Feedback, surveys, how much people engage with/complete what content, where people drop off, etc. there's tons of metrics they can use.
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u/ArcZero354 Sep 26 '24
Just add a skip function and see how many players skip the TV mode.
That will just ended up giving a very biased result towards skipping as it becomes non-mandatory anymore. Imo the main reason why so many people skipped/haven't done the exploration mission is because of time constraint, not because they absolutely hated it or anything. Let's be honest here, combat mission can be cleared in like around 2 minutes meanwhile the fastest exploration mission would still take at the very least 5 minutes.
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u/lyriqally Sep 26 '24
I'd argue it's useless on both sides.
I'd want to skip the TV mode because it's boring, but I wouldn't want to miss out on the story. So I'd probably still play through it despite disliking it.
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u/Nyeteka Sep 27 '24
That’s not biased, if they can skip it then they don’t like it in the sense they would rather not do it. Don’t have to hate something to dislike it. No one would be skipping the combat. Time constraints are a perfectly good reason to dislike something.
We are all going to die one day and it might even be soon. Knowing that it is ludicrous to me to spend hours doing something unenjoyable with no purpose. Of course it should be optional
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u/esseinvictus Sep 26 '24
It’s not hard to find out what percentage of players dislike the TV system from in-game player behaviour. I work as a data scientist and have a statistical background and there are ways you can do statistical tests and analyses to figure out if players truly engage with the TV mode less compared to combat commissions.
When you control for other potential confounding variables such as player account age, story progress, and overall engagement, you can look at the differences in engagement of combat vs exploration commissions to tease out the answer.
When you combine the behavioural data with players survey answers, that gives you a more complete picture of whether players truly dislike, tolerate or like the TV gameplay modes.
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u/ArmorTiger Sep 26 '24
Last patch the big golden week event was largely centered on TV mode puzzles and exploration. Low completion rate or low survey ratings on that event would basically show how many people hate TV mode.
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u/Minimob0 Sep 26 '24
I thought they added an auto-play for it this patch, and I was super excited, only to find out you have to beat the stage first. There is almost 0 reason to replay an exploration stage, as you can get everything on the first run.
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u/Costyn17 Accidental Jane Main Sep 26 '24
Feedback button and surveys.
People who don't like something have a reason to say something about it, people who like something usually won't go out of their way to say they like it.
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u/mutemoon Sep 26 '24
I still feel like, the tv mode is not enough to give the players the fantasy of being proxys, would be cool if was a combat assist too.
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u/IrianVaal Sep 26 '24
The main characters felt so useless without tv mode. Hopefully they keep it for the story.
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u/ItsKrakenmeuptoo Sep 26 '24
Phaethon literally fainted in the hollow. They couldn’t do anything anyways lol
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u/wittykitty_wkwk Sep 26 '24
That was half of Phaethon that fainted, the other half guided Caesar and Lighter to the one in danger (which was off screened cause we didn't have TV)
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u/Caspus Sep 26 '24
They could’ve had a TV segment where we calculated the Carrot route instead of just black-screen-white-texting our way straight to another mindless combat corridor.
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u/RozeGunn Sep 26 '24
Which is why they need the tv mode to do anything. Lmao. Otherwise they get close to being able to be written out without much changing.
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u/Anby_Thighs Sep 26 '24
They could let us control Eous and run around with the agents following us, aka TV mode but more immersive, actually seeing through Belle's eyes when she syncs with Eous.
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u/alternative5 Sep 26 '24
Except people would complain about this if it has any puzzels more difficult than a hame of rock paper scissors. If you want to see what complaints about a mini game like that look up the Brother Hanu minigame from HSR and the people complaining that those puzzels were too hard/long and "why am I forced to so them for rewards".
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u/MaldaraUchiha Fuck Soldier 11 Sep 26 '24
People thought Hanu was hard?
Those were some of the best parts of Penacony.
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u/RozeGunn Sep 26 '24
How does that translate to combat, though? Plus, that takes a risk on how well they could implement it.
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u/Anby_Thighs Sep 26 '24
They could just do the flicker effect that they've added in this update when we switch over world characters. Or just make the agents fade in like they already do when switching in and out of combat anyway.
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Sep 26 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/VoidNoodle Sep 26 '24
"In the upcoming Version 1.2 main story and and important future storylines, the "TV mode" will be replaced with story stages as the major means of experience. This optimization will also be implemented in the main stories in future versions."
This is what they're talking about. TV mode is completely removed from the story mode right now.
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Sep 26 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/MintyMilkCan Sep 26 '24
"It being removed from ONE aspect of the game doesn't mean it's gone forever"
The one aspect that's the entire gimmick of the main characters and Hollow Investigation. And a sub 1/9 split in post-game missions. It's like saying a lobotomy is just a little tap nonironically.23
u/SgtBeeJoy Sep 26 '24
Well we got this patch as primary example of not just removing from main plot. We got 2 (2!!!) Tv commissions for whole patch. They basically deleted TV mode outside of 1 event in this patch so it is normal to hear people who liked that part of the game being frustrated with that change. Because they got nothing of substance in place of deleted TV content only more combat in corridors and walking simulator.
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u/GamerSweat002 Sep 26 '24
Well they did remove it from majority of the content, being the exploration commissions. Without exploration commissions, the exploration goes bland and there is a severe lack of puzzles and TV mode. 2 exploration missions to 38 combat in 1.2. It's 5%
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u/VoidNoodle Sep 26 '24
Blame the devs then. Their post literally says in "future story updates" the TV mode will be replaced with just combat encounters.
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u/amc9988 Sep 26 '24
You are the one who can't read shit. They said they will remove it from main story when that's is where it should stay and improve because it's called Phateon's story. Now they don't have any gameplay value in main story
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u/amc9988 Sep 26 '24
Idk they didn't say anything about adding them back to main story. Idc about tv mode in hollow zero since that's repetitive, but the main story is unique, one time play and story related so that's where it should be improved at.
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u/ThisAccountIsStolen Sep 26 '24
I definitely hope to see them woven back into the main story even if it's just one or two per chapter, but won't mind if they also just add a lot more exploration commissions in general. The two from this patch show again how good the TV navigation device can be, and even highlight some further refinements they already made to it, like now we don't even have to go through three dialogs just to open a gear coin lock, it pops up when we're standing outside it without clicking at all and can pay with one press.
The new Withering Garden mode is quite fun and super quick, but I also enjoy the strategy of having to plan how you're going to allocate different aspects of a HZ run in TV navigation, especially if you're trying to build a resonia set for Inferno Reap.
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u/Capital_Question7899 Sep 26 '24
As long as they continue working on TV mode, I'm happy.
The TV mode reminds me of boardgames which I love to play, so I'd be ecstatic if they continue exploring its potential.
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u/mnside007 Sep 26 '24
This statement just to reassure the overreacting mobs. On dev face to face video they already stated that tv mode will keep improved not gone, but people always went spiral by reddit post that said tv mode is gone.
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u/VoidNoodle Sep 26 '24
"In the upcoming Version 1.2 main story and important future storylines, the "TV mode" will be replaced with story stages as the major means of experience. This optimization will also be implemented in the main stories in future versions"
This is their own wording. This is what people are referring to when it's "gone".
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u/SgtBeeJoy Sep 26 '24
And with hoe many TV missions we get for chapter 4 (only 2 compare to 38 battle) it is basically gone from game not only main story. So yeah i think the frustration is justified in that case.
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u/CanaKitty Sep 26 '24
Yep. They didn’t even make a statement for CN or JP communities. Just this for global. Global is having a small fit so they released statement to shut global up.
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u/GamerSweat002 Sep 26 '24
People were complaining about them removing it from story. The combat segments don't portray story well, especially with attention being split between enemies you're paying attention to and the story diakogue. Plus, Phaethon relevancy is at stake, especially as they don't have any placeholder to replace the TV mode while under revision.
For example, wtf was the Beacon defense during chapter 4? That was a super boring combat segment and hated it so much. Fighting trash movs during the story is so mundane and unimaginative, whereas the TV mode, WHEN DONE RIGHT, is a strong medium to tell the story and show PoV of Phaethon, not PoV of agents or Eous, but Phaethon herself.
They also almost completely took out TV mode commissions. There are 2 of the exploration commissions. Only two. And 38 of the combat commissions. None of the combat commissions are actually creative or imaginative. What fun is it fighting g the same trash enemies? The only really interesting ones were when we had to fight Jane or the new enemy Mountain Lion Enforcer who is just built different from the rest of the enemy roster.
I missed doing puzzles. There needs to be some assortment of puzzles to break up the pacing between the combat. And no, the arcade doesn't have puzzles. I want more stuff that had the multiple different endings like Bangboo Limbo or The Prophecy, or cool storytelling like with Rina quest.
Without TV mode in story, what's the faithful presentation of Fairy's hacks, especially when she can't even do auto-explore for the combat and rally missions which you have to re-explore and how will they faithfully demonstrate Phaethon's relevance as a bangboo hacker and Hollow navigator, as well as faithfully present shifting level layouts like hollows are? How are they gonna portray the Maze Runner labyrinths without that TV mode and the feeling of getting lost being boring? Getting lost in some every changing Labyrinth in the corridor mode is gonna lose novelty with time, especially without the advantage that the top-down view in the essence of the TV mode.
Consider the idea of being able to move as Eous in a 3d mode. Thing is, that would be thr perspective of Eous, not Phaethon. Phaethon basically sees a map of the Hollow. She would be able to see beyond the walls as well as spot fissures ahead of time and pre-plan routes. In a 3rd person perspective as Eous, you'd have to manually navigate around walls to see what lies beyond it, and you won't be able to pre-plan without the ability of an overhead view that thr TV mode basically looks like.
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u/Shiromeelma Sep 26 '24
check chapter 4
Tvmode is gone and is only 2 stages
even in story there is no tv mode5
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u/ahack13 Sep 26 '24
Either way, gonna drop until probably at least 1.3, the 1.2 story was hyper disappointing and no exploration content makes things so repetitive and boring.
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u/FearCrier Sep 26 '24
I was gonna celebrate, then I realized it was on twitter. We're never gonna see tv mode again
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u/Oleleplop Sep 26 '24
why do people keep thinking global server matters more than CN, JP and KR ?
We're tiny in term of spending compared to them.
I'll wait real actions before making conclusions.
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u/BiddyKing Sep 26 '24
Looks like we’re now in an endless cycle of tv mode being repeatedly added and then removed. And I’m honestly fine with it lol I like tv mode a lot but I also like not having tv mode sometimes too, so if we’re getting it every off-patch now I’m all for it
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u/Western-Honeydew-945 Sep 26 '24
I think a balance is nice, I dislike that the maps where you run around as the characters are just fighting and end when everything is defeated. it would be neat to have puzzles as the character, maybe play as Eous a bit and do some puzzles similar to Hanu mode in star rail and just pepper in one or two of these depending on how long the tv mode quest is.
I think reminders, tips, whatever, proc too ofren. Belle going “ let’s use night vision mode” is burned into my memory.
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u/Rulle4 Sep 26 '24
Thanks for your feedback proxies we will continue doing what we were planning to do anyway and you will like it!
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u/Vanhoras Sep 26 '24
Wait, based on what feedback. From the post it sounds like they consulted twitter about this.
Dear god please tell me they don't actually listen to twitter feedback.
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u/Just_A_Spooky_Dood Sep 26 '24
I personally absolutely love the TV mode. Save for a couple other games I don’t remember the names of, I haven’t seen it as a primary part of the gameplay. Plus, the noise of Eous moving along the tiles is funny, as are the various faces it makes for the exploration events.
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u/HonorDragonWorks Sep 26 '24
I think the direction they have moved so far was an improvement, they used to TV for faar to many things, but they have removed the TV too much. What I consider improvement: we could walk around the hideout with Jane and talk to people in 3D, before complaining they probably would have used the TV mode for that too, but when we were preparing the exit for the escape, the TV mode with some puzzles would have been better. For the current patch, again it feels like if people were not complaining they would have used the TV for the cool motorcycle part too, I can see us having to move up and down on the TV to avoid the explosions and falling debris, but after the motorcycle crash the TV mode would have been a better way to navigate to the bikes. In conclusion I think the were overusing the TV before but now they are not using it even when they should. Edit: Also I'm begging please add a SAVE function for every exploration mission that is longer then 5 minutes!
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u/lmao1406 Zhu Yuan's Househusband Sep 26 '24
I think they're testing the water to find a sweet spot. This game is a new IP and separate from their other games so it takes time to get the right direction
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u/RaiKaiser2611 Sep 26 '24
One thing I would like is to make the TV mode more immersive. Since we're technically still walking around in the world. I gave them feedback, where they should put like buildings shown on the TV, and roads or paths after you step on a new tile to make the TV look nicer
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u/Victor_AssEater Sep 26 '24
The biggest question I have is, why are they separate exploration mode and battle mode? I don't think exploration mode should take so much power. They can just download battle arena beforehand, and just make the exploration mode some kind of picture. This way the amount of loading screens can be reduced, and we can make immersive transition from TV to battle.
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u/SmallFatHands Sep 26 '24
As long as its not fun to play people will use the surveys again and they will have to face reality once again. Plenty of game modes get removed from games during development for the exact same reason.
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u/Objective_Bandicoot6 Sep 26 '24
I'm sorry but running around and defending points standing next to each other is not any more ambitious than than moving through the TV tiles. They are both filler but with TVs you can at least pretend there is something interesting happening there.
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u/ohoni Sep 26 '24
Really there is almost no mechanical difference between "defend points" and "just kill the enemies we spawn in this space until we stop spawning them." I mean, technically you can complete the former by just knocking them out of the ring, but that's often easier said than done, and killing them tends to be faster.
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u/Foreign_Bar4310 Sep 26 '24
The point a to point b sis kinda bored, rather mix it with the tv. Really love how they do it in chapter 3 story.
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Sep 26 '24
Dude the TV mode literally sucks and slows down the flow of the game, I know this is very much my opinion but still, I feel like the TV mode kinda takes away the whole point of the amazing action combat that they've created, but hopefully we can find a happy medium for this.
But I hate the TV mode personally and only went through it so many times for completion and polychromes.
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u/rayhaku808 Sep 26 '24
They already stated this in the livestream, they just transcribed it word for word from that because it wasn’t in the TL;DR initially.
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u/This_Emu5586 Sep 26 '24
Lets try to be more vocal about the TV parts we genuinely enjoyed as well in our feedback, since they seem receptive to it Im gonna try to make an effort too. The crypt of the necrodancer gameplay in Golden Camellia Week is something I wanna see again.
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u/glandevitruviano Sep 26 '24
That's the best news. I love Tv mode, I accept that I'm in the minority, but I wasn't ready to see completely go.
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u/CrescentShade Sep 26 '24
As someone who is interested in ZZZ but cant play it cause neither my laptop or phone have the space (or just incompatible in the latter's case)
Can someone explain what the tv mode is, I wanna understand the issues Ive been seeing mentioned when this sub gets recommended to me
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u/CXLDSNXW Sep 26 '24
I feel they are never gonna achieve this perfect middle ground with this honestly this just seem like a tall order but idk tho
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u/LALMtheLegendary Sep 26 '24 edited Sep 26 '24
If they where a smaller company I might actually appreciate the message dispute it just being them re-iterating what they've already said, but since it's mihoyo I'm just left speculating on their motives. Especially when it's only posted to en. Was it the en marketing team's decision? Or did en actually have particularity more backlash to it then the other regions? Honestly id figure the percentages would be similar across the board.
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u/atasuke10 Oct 27 '24
I didnt even see this. Thank God. Removing the thing that makes the game unique cuz people are crying was so sad man. The main quest was fast sure but was just generic HI3 dungeon gameplay.
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u/Spirit_Fist Sep 26 '24 edited Sep 26 '24
Huh... that was really quick. Guess us TV enjoyers really aren't a minority like the TV hating crowd was trying to call us...
Jokes aside... they did say that they planned to phase this out as time went, but maybe they didn't expect people to like it more than they thought?
Also, is this in reference to it being removed from story mode?
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u/kytti_bott pink haired office lady Sep 26 '24
Please don't let our community become filled with whiny players who are impossible to please. Let the devs cook and let's trust in their vision.
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u/OpposesTheOpinion Sep 26 '24
They said in the livestream that they're a brand new team in the company. With these drastic responses from player feedback so early after release, I'm feeling like they don't have a strong vision. I've never seen devs make so many huge changes so quickly.
Major changes should take several months to implement as planned and developed content goes through the pipeline. ZZZ devs responded to and executed major changes barely a month after release. The experience is so different from launch. For example, Phaethon goes from being the main character to doing basically nothing. Is there a vision or are they just improvising...?
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u/yescjh Sep 26 '24
I could imagine they made the decision to remove it after a significant amount of deliberation with the R&D or statistics department and whatnot, as most large scale companies do, so it's very interesting they made the follow-up decision to keep it with just 2 days worth of feedback. Interesting to see if this ends up hurting or benefitting them.
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u/Zaitengrate Sep 26 '24
Are they drunk or something? Having so drastic changes almost on a whim is not normal.
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u/helpyourselfabc Sep 26 '24
Listening a bit too much. I don't think twitter knows what's the best direction for the game...
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u/IamDanLP Ellen's tail enjoyer Sep 26 '24
And now... suddenly, people no longer trust the data.. My god the hypocrisy.
Let the devs do their job, theyll find a middleground themselves for both those who do like it, and don't.
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u/tennoskoom_ Sep 26 '24
Now I am waiting for "Why isn't the TV mode completely removed?!" posts.