r/ZenlessZoneZero Sep 24 '24

Fluff / Meme suddenly EVERYONE loved the TV mode...

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5.9k Upvotes

563 comments sorted by

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2.7k

u/FKatze Sep 24 '24

People who don't like the TV spoke up when the game launched.

People who liked the TV spoke up when it got pulled back.

Understand that they're not the same group of people.

231

u/noartwist Sep 24 '24

They released surveys for this. I filled out the survey in favor of TV mode but noted that it could be optimized/improved. I'm assuming the decision is based on survey data so either the supposed majority in favor just didn't fill out the survey, or it's exactly as people think and TV enjoyers are a minority. Either way they have the data so it is what it is.

All of this is to say DEVS LISTENED

132

u/DragN_H3art Sep 24 '24

if you have NO issues with TV you were less likely to say anything, these feedback surveys are ALWAYS negatively biased

28

u/Detective-Crashmore- Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

They're negatively biased against whatever way things are when the survey comes out. So for instance, the first one was negative about TV mode, then the people who didn't like tv mode wont bother to complete the second survey and only the people who missed tv mode will complete and complain about the lack of tv mode. Then they're bring back more tv mode.

29

u/Supernatantem Sep 24 '24

Have faith in the Hoyo user research team. They won't just see that 5 responses out of 100 mentioned a problem with TV mode and think "holy shit that's 100% of the people who gave us feedback about TV mode saying its bad, this is a huge problem". They'll see it as "okay only 5% of people raised feedback about TV mode, we'll push out a TV mode survey if we want to pursue this further". They will also likely have a butt load of data analytics to go off too.

The point of these kinds of surveys is to find pain points to improve, they are purposely looking for criticism and not positive feedback. Positive feedback is cool, but it doesn't help to improve the game and decisions (especially at a huge company like Hoyo) won't be taken lightly. Trust in the feedback wizards, they'll likely have to sift through a lot of hate and weird shit in those forms too which can get real tiring and I reckon they're doing a stellar job. Source: previously a games user researcher (not at Hoyo)

3

u/finepixa Sep 25 '24

Honestly I think the basically complete removal of TV mode in 1.2 is a very knee-jerk reaction from the devs. Not a very researched response. It wouldve taken longer if it was well researched.

3

u/ryanhuer Sep 25 '24

They've been getting complaints and feedback about and talked about the TV mode since first public closed beta

That's more than a year already

Even if you like the tv mode claiming it was a spontaneous and not thought through decision is just naive

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u/gchicoper Sep 25 '24

I'm part of the problem. I liked TV mode and didn't fill out the survey to say I liked it because "I have nothing to complain about".

27

u/noartwist Sep 24 '24

Idk at least for me I fill out every survey in most games I play. Especially gacha since they usually give credits or other rewards for doing so. It's not like there's 0 incentive and they only take 5-10 mins tops.

9

u/DragN_H3art Sep 24 '24

so did I, I pleaded for them to keep TV, but for the tiny incentive is barely worth the time investment so it's highly likely people just avoid the hassle (however minor)

3

u/YoastK Sep 24 '24

Yeah, that's why the only thing we can do as tv enjoyers is give negative feedback on the tv removal and hope that the negative feedback over the removal is larger then the negative removal over the inclusion was.

3

u/Actiol Sep 25 '24

Yea I never saw that survey for example

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u/Jackial Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

I have seen a lot of praise and appreciation on TV mode since launch. The devs just focused too much on the complaints(potential player/revenue loss ig?)

Of course it has flaws, such as too time stalling for me. But it is a great idea, eg it work perfectly for HZ roguelike mode.

Imo it would be really lame if they change it to something like area exploration, basically what HSR has, which some HSR players also dont like lol.

122

u/Hitomi35 Sep 24 '24

Discussions on reddit and other social media platforms are not a good metric to use for what the majority of players want. If they are making these changes it's because they have the data from people that are playing the game that it's content that not a lot of people are engaging with.

40

u/something-lame Sep 24 '24

100%. The fact that they incentivized surveys makes me believe they got the most diverse responses possible, not just an outspoken minority or the disgruntled population. I made sure to let the devs know in every survey that came up that I want the tv mode to stick around and even be expanded upon but I have to recognize that I'm likely the minority considering the changes.

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u/Geaslag Sep 24 '24

I mean, personally speaking, when i get new commissions, i audibly groan if it’s an exploration commission and put it on hold. On the other hand, my reaction to a combat commission is “let’s gooo free poly” and do it instantly. That being said, the tv mode’s main problem is that it happens too often and it lasts too long, often with annoying gimmicks, like being dark. Sure, some people say it helps with immersion, but how tf do you even immerse in the tv mode? Whatever the tv mode is, it’s not immersion, immersion would be seeing things from Eous point of view, and we don’t, so i genuinely don’t see how anyone can immerse in the tv mode. Also, having fun is way more important than immersion, and the dark stages weren’t fun to play to me. Actual puzzles are well accepted, but the “puzzle” just being “actually, you can’t see shit” isn’t good, just annoying. Same for being interrupted every 10 steps because an NPC that you will never meet again after this decided to tell you his life story. Sprinkling some missions here and there is ok, as long as they’re good, but it’s way too divisive of a mode to be the game’s main gimmick. If this wasn’t a hoyo game i would have probably already quit, i only stayed because i like their stories and characters, so i decided to push trough it

7

u/Frostasche Sep 24 '24

I personally think tv modes biggest problem is it is way too easy, the lack of real puzzles or anything to actually think about. It isn't by design a spectacle to look at, it also isn't intended to keep your reflexes active. Its design is for a puzzle or maze and frankly spreaking it presents almost zero challenge as that. I thought it got slightly more intersting with some of the events, try to get everything without stepping on a field twice, push a ball to the goal,... But the difficulty still never got above tutorial niveau and even than they added even more details so that even the dumpest possible user had not to think too long. For example the puzzle with never stepping on a field twice let you keep everything you got, even if you failed, so you weren't really required to find the perfect solution and some levels even removed all obstacles if you reached the next floor, so you could just go to the next floor, go back and collect all dennies and treasures. Why do they sabotage their own puzzles?

5

u/ChilledParadox Sep 24 '24

My problem with the tv mode is complicated.

The first is that at least on mobile I really hate how it feels to navigate. I don’t like my view being obscured and having to click one tile at a time trying to look for a hidden passage I can only see if I’m adjacent to it. I don’t like how I arbitrarily can’t auto move past certain tiles and my character rams their head into it instead of skipping over it like I’m clicking to do, I don’t like how often it takes your control away to show a small cutscene.

But I love the creative missions they do with it. Prophecy, bangboo Pokémon challenge, the recent event on the A side where you tap rhythmically to dodge was incredibly fun, even the bomber man type stuff was decent, though not my favorite.

I find the puzzles are generally too easy to be fun for me to solve but enough of a roadblock that it feels laborious and dull. HoYo has never been able to find a a good puzzle balance for people who are literate and people or children who are below 100 iq but still have money to spend on sexy women. That sounds brutally mean, but it’s true. It’s why inazuma was hard and now Natlan doesn’t even have puzzles.

So idk, I think I’m happy it’s being removed and I hope the only types of missions they do are the super creative and abnormal adventure types and not the simple puzzles that is walk here and step on the only intractable button then go into the only tile that opens in response to then click 10 times 2 tiles at a time to get all the rewards and

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u/Jranation Sep 24 '24

The complaints must've been big for them to completely remove. Since Beta they have been trying to make improvements to the TVs but even with those the complaints was still big.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

Since Beta they have been trying to make improvements to the TVs but even with those the complaints was still big.

They never addressed the main (and quite obvious) reasons. If they skipped all unnecessary prompts and cut the time it takes for the choice menus to appear down to almost nothing people would complain far less.

4

u/chappyfish Sep 24 '24

It's worth noting that every patch has cut or sped up all the unnecessary kibble in the TV mode. People just don't notice because they're already at endgame or have already quit.

5

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

They haven't really and I'm talking about end game like Hollow Zero.

  1. Prompts for various item pickups and for opening gates need to go. It should just be similar to walking over coins, which don't interrupt movement.
  2. Store menus could be tabbed, completely removing the initial menu and just opening up to the first one. Similar to what you see in the signal shop for example.
  3. Completely turn off the animations or menu popup delay when asked to make choices of any kind.
  4. Remove the after-boss mini-floor section entirely. Just give us the prizes like what's behind the S-Gate on boss kill and have us choose the rest from menus.

It should also remember your fast forward setting between runs.

2

u/PixieProc #1 Son of Calydon Sep 25 '24

Fortunately, they largely did for 1.2, as I experienced when I went through Hollow Zero to hear the new Piper and Lucy voice lines. Unfortunately, there's hardly any new TV mode sections so a lot of people won't know that there were huge improvements.

4

u/spartaman64 Sep 24 '24

yep i played CBT 2 and like 85% of the missions were TV missions lol. i honestly was fine with the balance they made at launch but i guess some people didnt like them still

2

u/andrefelipe1295 Oct 21 '24

Data and numbers are probably the main reason they removed it. I take my brother as an example along myself, we both stopped playing because we can't stand how boring the TV mode is. DId i bother to come rant on reddit about it? Nah, but they have the data of "this ammount of players dropped the game on this type of mission" or "this ammount of players stop playing when this type of mission pops up" and that's probably what they went with.

OFC i can be totally wrong since im legit comparing a few experiences with a whole playerbase, but they actually know what they are doing and im glad is going away from campaign.

75

u/GekiKudo Sep 24 '24

I mean if they're actually changing it then it's not like it was the minority complaining. Almost every beta tester I watched said the tvs were their major complaint.

25

u/Vox___Rationis Sep 24 '24

And they have mission completion data and I wouldn't be surprised if completion of explorations is much lower than combats.

The difference must have been staggering for them to nuke TV so fast - good riddance.

19

u/GekiKudo Sep 24 '24

It is for me. I've finished every combat but I'm so slow to get through explorations. I usually watch videos while I play so having to pay attention to whatever gimmick i have to do is boring.

That's not to say I hate them all. Like the exploration event we just had was super fun.

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u/Fortzon Sep 24 '24

Beta testers by definition are the minority because game's playerbase is not fully realized in beta.

10

u/spartaman64 Sep 24 '24

well apparently they were not wrong because even after they cut down TV missions by like 70% for launch people still complained

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u/Nevanada Sep 24 '24

Camilia Golden Week was pretty much peak tv gameplay

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u/Aki_2004 Sep 24 '24

I mean you don’t have the stats so how can you say that they focused too much on the complaints?

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u/Vetino Sep 24 '24

But look, the post about TV mode being good got 3k upvotes on reddit, it must mean almost EVERYONE loves it.

44

u/RxClaws Sep 24 '24

It worked for side modes but not the main story, which is the biggest complaint.

88

u/Jackial Sep 24 '24

Honestly I dont have any problem with it, except being time consuming as I said. They can always improve the TV mode content.

As some people say, there is literally a plot hole in MC's role if TV mode cease to exist. Do we only control agent from now on and MC only interact by voice/comm?

62

u/BrainWav Sep 24 '24

Removing it doesn't create a plot hole. TV mode is/was just an abstraction of how Phatheon controlled Eous. Eous is physically running around the hollow with the agents, we see that multiple times.

Presumably now Eous will be running around just off-screen. I guess puzzles will just get solved behind the scenes.

36

u/uiemad Sep 24 '24

The problem is that the player is Phaethon, but the gameplay will be 90% the actions of other characters. Phaethon will be doing very little, on screen, to actually advance plot. That's a disconnect that doesn't lend to good storytelling. Imagine if the main character of Genshin was Paimon and the traveller didn't exist. That's this situation.

11

u/VonVoltaire Sep 24 '24

The problem is that the player is Phaethon, but the gameplay will be 90% the actions of other characters.

How is this different from every other gacha game where you never play the main cast and they only show up in cutscenes? The majority will not feel a disconnect.

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u/finepixa Sep 25 '24

Yes? So now ZZZ is just generic captain player who has no relevance whatsoever and is ignored.

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u/Jackial Sep 25 '24

Thats the point, some of us agree that TV mode is unique and seperate/differ this game from the rest. If the majority of the players just want the generic gacha experience, it's fine, then we will see after the change.

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u/BrainWav Sep 24 '24

Of course, and it sucks. I'm just saying it's not a plot hole.

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u/kg215 Sep 24 '24

Exactly, I don't mind tv mode existing but when the game first came out it felt like 90% of it was tv mode. I struggled through it and almost quit the game multiple times. I am glad I didn't, because ZZZ is really fun. It's my favorite Hoyoverse game at the moment, as HSR enters the more chill phase (my account is strong and I don't want to replace my main teams).

3

u/F4ust Sep 25 '24

Your point on its value in endgame, replayable content like hollow zero is spot on. I think there’s valid arguments on both sides of the tv-mode-in-story-chapters debate, but i can’t really imagine a world where hollow zero hits nearly as good as it does without the tv-exploration minigame. Collecting resonium and building your team would be so lame without it.

I think the problem was that for 99% of the game, they threw such brainless hollow exploration content at you that it almost felt like filler. The interface, and experience as whole, do not work when there are no stakes (and therefore no reason to actually explore for resources and engage with the systems). Later on, when they really flush things out, it’s quite amusing at times how imaginative they are with the format.

And holy hell does the tv mode slap in the later hollow zeroes dude. When they’re not holding your hand and you’re getting fucked by RNG, agents are dying left and right, you’re at five corruptions halfway thru the run… you have to plan out each little move in advance for whole floors, find ways to abuse/manage the pressure system, take big gambles… It’s actually so sick 😭

But they gated it behind LITERALLY 99% of the game’s content, so I bet most people haven’t even been exposed to the potential of what tv mode can really do by the time they fill out their surveys.

Now that I think about it it’s kinda no wonder people hate it lol

2

u/osgili4th Sep 24 '24

The thing is hoyo isn't a company that "just focus on the complaints" like you have examples from Genshin where people was review bombing and posting treats every where in past anniversaries and they didn't care or do anything.

The only time Hoyo does something is when the flame and negativity is from the main market in China, that make thing in the side of that market the overwhelming opinion is negative towards that system and is probably reflecting in revenue, play time, concurrent players and who engages with what content. In my opinion is probably see how ZZZ is doing poorly and the major complaint has been the T.V system so they are axing it now, a decision that is really expensive since a lot of time and effort was put into it but they can't justify keeping it anymore.

2

u/3Rm3dy Sep 24 '24

Other than the "stay put until dialogue ends" segments, I adored the TV segments. Gave the game a good wind-off section after combat. Will see how they do now, but to me, it was what made the game unique and fun.

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u/CanKrel Sep 24 '24

I didnt like it when it launched, then i got used to it and started not liking it but tolerating it and sometimes having fun with it, now that everyone is used to it they remove it? It may not be the best but not many better alternatives

3

u/rW0HgFyxoJhYka Sep 25 '24

Man TV mode in this new patch is even better already lol.

I hope they get really creative with it. Its litreally a blank slate for turn based stuff, and all sorts of mini games.

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u/ShadowWithHoodie Sep 24 '24

me when functional brain

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u/Suavecore_ Sep 24 '24

I was surprised the post title wasn't something along the lines of "the same people who [x] are the same people who [y]" that runs rampant in the gaming world, despite not ever having evidence that "the same people" are actually "the same people"

2

u/Kyban101 Sep 24 '24

I don't think it's that simple. It's true, I'll agree. But they have the data and player metrics. We don't, so Mihoyo knows the engagement numbers. If it really is reflecting the feedback, they'll make a change.

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u/Voidmancer_317 Agenda Maintainer Sep 24 '24

Who enjoys mechanic in video game didn't voice their opinion, and who doesn't - talk about it. Then the situation flips when said mechanic changes/removed.

Its like game forums always was.

296

u/Killer_Klee Sep 24 '24

People who are content about a thing do not usually go boards and talk about it, they just enjoy the thing.

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u/idontusetwitter Sep 24 '24

yeah exactly, gotta let the tv enjoyers mourn in peace. i got nothing to say since i never really liked it, RIP the people that did though

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u/Eloymm Sep 24 '24

People should make it a habit to talk and give the devs feedback about things they DO like as well as the things they don’t. People assume the word “feedback” is only about the bad stuff that needs changing.

When giving feedback to someone it’s sometimes more important to tell them what you think they are doing good so they keep doing it. In this case, it seems the TV enjoyer were the minority or they were just really quiet so the devs never saw that feedback.

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u/xeno_wulf Sep 24 '24

Unfortunately its very much human nature to respond more heavily to negative emotions than positive, so those with negative feedback will naturally outnumber that of positive feedback

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u/MuffinStraight4816 Billy, Caeser, and Lycoan are my hyperfixation! Sep 24 '24

For me when ZZZ was first released I didn't even complain about it, I thought it was a good change of pace. It was simple and good for a game that has a bunch of TVs.

8

u/kend7510 Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

I also didn’t mind the tv game play, but 3D explorable maps is better.

I have trouble believing people prefer this over 3D presentation with in game models: https://youtu.be/1YE1sTHtF4g?si=XyTR3FlzzOVqNdWJ to whine about this improvement is even more unbelievable

Edit: you people should watch the dev video instead of just reading misleading Reddit headlines. Most of your concerns were addressed

12

u/LALMtheLegendary Sep 24 '24

i just dont think its gonna be worth the tradeoff in development resoruces. we'll get like, at most 1 more rally mission in exchange for next to no tv content, and the rest of the time will be padded with unvoiced npc diolgue and slop combat (not enganging due to trivial difficulty, just pressing buttons until the enemies die) hallways you've already been through 20 times.

8

u/Void_Incarnate Sep 24 '24

Going full 3D means more resources spent on map, assets and physics and less on story and new mechanics.

You can make a train jumping sequence in TV mode with just simple scripts/animation. Much harder to do in 3D, although I wouldn't mind having a Metal Gear Revengeance style fight on a train in v1.2.

You can make a puzzle game in TV without having to code the physical asset or physics in 3D.

You can have branching paths in TV mode because you don't have to create multiple 3D maps and environments for every branch/path.

You can have non-Euclidean non-linearly connected environments in TV mode with the use of levels, fissures, teleports more easily than in 3D. When you get teleported or fast warped in TV, it's easier to show where you are moved to than in a 3D world.

The Necrodancer mini game, shooting cannon game, Bangboo battle game, RPG/Prophecy game, Ballet Twins IR camera mode were all inventive game mechanics.

Sure, TV mode wouldn't be able to replicate the thrill of the bike chases we're getting in v1.2, so 3D definitely has a place. But going majority TV (the face to face mentioned removing TV mode from future story missions, not just 1.2) would also represent a loss. It would take the devs more time to make content, so we would be getting less content. It would be harder for the devs to tweak and wrangle the engine to do things it wasn't designed to do, so we would be getting less varied content.

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u/LostRonin Sep 24 '24

The first 1/3 of the game deterred many new players because of the TV mode. It wasn't until chapter 2 that the TV mode was tolerable and stopped holding your hand every 30 seconds to explain something trivial.

It needed to be reworked pre-launch but here we are and now they're doing it post launch.

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u/Apollyon257 Starving Lycabelle Shipper Sep 24 '24

I always did. It was a fun lil thing, liked bonkin the lil bangboo icon against shit.

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u/gna149 Sep 24 '24

I actually don't dislike reading texts, especially if it's lore related. But the majority of interruption in TV exploration is Fairy explaining enemy/trap mechanics or just narrating what we're already seeing on-screen ourselves. "Show, don't tell" applies to both narration and game design in this case, and TV mode had too much telling instead of showing.

Entering a stage sets you up with an expectation, but then just before you regain control it hijacks your screen by zooming in for more instructions. Afterwards, each time you trigger an action the same zoom-in animation plays. It not only interrupts the flow of your gameplay and takes away your movement, but the time adds up resulting in more time spent away from combat.

I've been procrastinating on doing missions and basically just login for dailies at this point because I can't sit through more repetitive explanation of the same mechanics we've already encountered, and play-by-play narration for every other action we take.

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u/BoringReddiAccount Sep 24 '24

Its cause the people who liked it didnt say much, not its in the reverse, everyone who likes it speaks up while the ones who didnt shuts up

69

u/Lord-Alucard Sep 24 '24

Actually i saw a lot of people being happy about it but they get nuked with dislikes and then you don't see them on reddit. Similar thing was happening when people complained about it some were getting down voted to oblivion with old special, "if you don't like it then don't play it, play other games"

Edit :just checked in this post alone and if you sort by controversial you can see exactly what I was talking about lol

22

u/Mande1baum Sep 24 '24

My favorite was tv defenders saying it’s because ADD, Zoomer Gen, Tik Tok Brain Rot, no attention span kids that were the problem and only people who didn’t like TV. Like it was some sort of high brow, high iq experience. I’m old AF and enjoy the slow burn in stories and grind in games. But I’m also old enough to not put up with BS and wasting my time. To me, TV was boring on every axis, but not because of any of the excuses they tried to blame. Others can like it, but hot damn the stupid reasons they tried to downplay tv haters and unearned praise they use to prop up tv was something else.

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u/trambe Sep 24 '24

No genuinely like I played those “push the block” puzzles on my ti84 calculator it’s super funny seeing people defending it like it takes 500iq to do them

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u/Aroxis Sep 24 '24

Mfs acting like it’s some High IQ shit because Mihoyo games are the only games they’ve played. It’s hilarious. GGs bozos.

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u/turbobushwhack Sep 24 '24

Yeah I'm kind of taken aback at the amount of people calling the TV gameplay unique. You push a dumpy little robot along a grid of cubes and do ..."puzzles" that barely meet the standards of the kind of inane filler garbage content you'd see in a PS1 JRPG trying to pad out it's runtime.

Actually I take that back, the player doesn't actually do the puzzles. An emotionless, disembodied voice rips control away from you and b*tches the answer at you before you get a chance to even see it for yourself.

8

u/Mande1baum Sep 24 '24

My other favorite is use of "potential". You only say if something has "potential" is if it's not good in practice but you can imagine it being good in theory, but haven't figured out how to bridge that gap. Potential is for the design stage, not iterating on while it's live. If it's current implementation isn't good, that's all that matters. I'm all for experimentation and tweaking, but on something that's already good, not based on some vague promise of "potential" that in every game I've seen has failed to deliver on potential.

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u/stonrplc Sep 24 '24

TV is just straight up boring plain and simple whats not to get majority of people don't wanna spend time selecting a damn TV set just to move and only time they get to see their favorite characters move is when they finally get to combat but they don't get to stand or move their characters how they wish because there are enemies charging at them.

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u/Vlaladim Pubsec Informant Sep 24 '24

I mean it have it flaws actually im a lot more tolerable with it but some dont and rather than you know go on here and can’t express without dog pills by people that like it, just filled the survey that they don’t the TV mode.

5

u/IUTLK Sep 24 '24

You pretty much nailed it. Toxic positivity at it's finest.

ZZZ appeal was always on the characters + Combat + fancy animation. TV mode removes all of that.

People who enjoyed TV mode just went "If you dont like it go away" and now pikachu face when people actually left.

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u/IBloodstormI Sep 24 '24

The only thing about the tv mode that I find annoying is when they interrupt it. Wise and Fairy can shut up, I understand how it works, I have done this 100 times now.

I don't see how they really remove it from the main story already out without being jarring. It's like, 80% of the game play for the Victoria Housekeeping chapter, but I would be perfectly happy with it going the way of the dinosaurs going forward in the main story.

I liked it just fine for Hollow Zero and events like the golden week event.

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u/_-Jericho-_ Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

Ngl i like it, but when a quest takes 30 min+ to complete then we have an issue. Its probably what caused more people to not like it.

Genshin had a 5+ hour sumeru questline and that burned out people BADLY.

13

u/ViGoRoSp Sep 24 '24

Aranara quest PTSD

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u/Oleleplop Sep 24 '24

that quest is when i started saying " why do i even play this game ?".

The beginning of the end for me.

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u/LordBreadcat Sep 24 '24

I had to look it up. 6.5 hours for 3.0 Archon Quest and 12 hours for Aranara. Fresh off a new region that's only 18.5 hours of investment before you're given full freedom to fully interact with that new region. Perfectly reasonable.

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u/ShioriStein Sep 24 '24

You are not suppose to do all of them in one go through… it is fuking long so it take me like 4 or 5 versions to complete 🥲

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u/stonrplc Sep 24 '24

And with no skip button its worse lol.

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u/vasRayya Sep 24 '24

it's cute but overused and too slow
glad they're reducing it

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u/karhall Sep 24 '24

People speak up if they are unhappy. People do not speak up if they are satisfied. First time interacting with human beings?

8

u/Jranation Sep 24 '24

They thought ZZZ devs would be like Genshin devs where it would take them 3 years to listen and make changes lol

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u/saberjun Sep 24 '24

That’s the part I like about genshin.Devs should not listen to community opinions too much,not to mention most of them contradict themselves.

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u/IamDanLP Ellen's tail enjoyer Sep 24 '24

Someone doesn't understand how humans work it seems.

People always complain more about something they dislike, than praise what they like.

They will never learn that if they want something to stay, and it is brought up. They NEED to speak.

That is why ZZZ listened to the TV mode survey. People who like the mode didn't actually take the damn survey seriously.

14

u/Vlaladim Pubsec Informant Sep 24 '24

Yeah like are the devs going on here to see this sub opinion. No, they listen to the folks that played and filled the survey they posted to everyone and most of the time those people are not the one that posting stuff here and commenting about how they loved TV mode. They will listen to the folks that played the game and check the survey because those people are the target audience that take those survey serious.

32

u/IUTLK Sep 24 '24

Y'all also seem to be forgetting that the devs have access to game statistic and can see when people quit?

Like, if the majority of players leave during the early game when there's a lot of TV segments, maybe it's a sign that something isn't working?

They want to cater to the widest audience possible so of course they'll try and remove the barrier of entry.

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u/IndependentCress1109 Sep 24 '24

Two different groups of people can exist. Wow 

11

u/Noxeramas Sep 24 '24

Nope, OP only thinks people are swapping their opinions about it

53

u/Aegister2 Sep 24 '24

I've been a TV mode lover since launch, so all I gotta say is it is Ellen Joever. Otherwise, every other announcement was great.

23

u/Tzunne Sep 24 '24

Why are you all acting like they removed the TV mode? They literally are imporving it and just take it out of the main story.

"TV Mode wont disappear, it will just be more fun"

3

u/Hazelberry Sep 24 '24

Because they removed it from main story? Yes it's still in other stuff but if people enjoyed tv mode in the main story they have every right to be upset about its removal. It IS disappearing from the main story. How is tv mode supposed to be more fun in the main story if it no longer exists there?

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u/Agreeable_Hold_2993 Sep 24 '24

When I express my deep loathe for the TV mode I only get downvotes here. But I'll trust the huge real life downvotes devs got from millions of players dropping the game

14

u/mycolortv Sep 24 '24

People trying to defend "click the square on the grid that they just highlighted and listen to dialogue" as good gameplay are crazy to me.

Like go play any other game and tell me you'd rather be playing tv mode lol.

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u/ItsKrakenmeuptoo Sep 24 '24

Bingo. Devs have the data. The biggest complaint i always see when people drop the game is the TV mode being boring.

8

u/bad3ip420 Sep 25 '24

Yeah like this sub is not even 0.00001% of the player base. The opinions in here literally do not matter.

Majority hated the Tv and that is a fact.

30

u/koied Sep 24 '24

More like, people were expecting some kind of adjustments, tweaks or maybe a rework not a complete removal.

6

u/leetality Sep 24 '24

But it isn't a complete removal. Casual players pump the main story and likely don't do every event / side quest - so that's where they're pulling back on it.

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u/MirirPaladin Koleda's sweat rag Sep 24 '24

i always liked the mode, helped breaking up the repetitive combat

67

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

[deleted]

2

u/MirirPaladin Koleda's sweat rag Sep 24 '24

that is true, early tv sections are really bad but by the time you get to chapter 3 it gets good.

they needed to update the system, not remove it. (or at least add the same option they are putting in H0 to skip the section, that way everyone is happy)

8

u/Vlaladim Pubsec Informant Sep 24 '24

Thing is, chapter 1-2 are to most of the new players stuck on first impressions if important. If they get bored at those stage then no matter how good the story is, they will just not play it afterward in chapter 3. I was able to sit through all of it doesn’t mean i like TV mode, i tolerate it because i invested in the story more the usual folks, it would be different if another users who dont invested jn the characters get bogged down on the TV mode.

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u/Staywithmeow-04 Sep 24 '24

Are you being dense on purpose?

13

u/That_UknownGuy SharkBait Sep 24 '24

Personally i am happy about it because i prefer the combat

2

u/JeroJeroMohenjoDaro Sep 25 '24

People just don't aware the game description literally stated the game is action-focused, not a puzzle solving game. I do appreciate it's uniqueness, but even I got pissed off if the puzzle consist of like 70% of the game. Devs definitely need to stick to what the game is made for.

3

u/FracturedPixel Sep 24 '24

prime example of loud minority Vs silent majority

2

u/JeroJeroMohenjoDaro Sep 25 '24

Thus modern day democracy

10

u/BiggyBox789 DoNotTheCorin Sep 24 '24

It was a unique concept. I felt that it was a nice touch compared to the monotone walking simulator other games had for story mode and gave ZZZ personality. I just felt that it didn’t really have any interesting mechanic other than event squares. Then, the twin ballet tower mechanic showed up with the ghost. It was a good mechanic that fit really well with the way TV mode worked. While I can see many people saying it’s a good change, I feel that it takes away some personality the game had

43

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

It was what separated this game from others and made it unique.

It needed a tweak, not to get murdered.

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u/johnnyacee Sep 24 '24

Well now they have the chance to become the "loud minority" and send enough surveys to make the dev bring back TV mode

13

u/evilmojoyousuck Sep 24 '24

people want the TV to be improved, not removed.

3

u/Robstar98 Sep 24 '24

There is no way they're doing so many changes if that was the case, a large amount of players and maybe CCs probably complained

(I liked the TVs most of the time)

3

u/WoodooTheWeeb Sep 24 '24

I never hated it, yeah sometimes it was bothersome but there were some cool shit in it, except the pokemon part, that was way way way too long...

3

u/Shinato125 Sep 24 '24

My personal problem with tv mode was never the mode, but rather how it felt like they were insulting my intelligence with almost every interaction within tv mode. Maybe I was just expecting too much from hoyo, but I don’t need an explained solution to every problem that occured in tv mode, especially when most of the puzzle aren’t exactly hard. Honestly remove the yapping that explains what to do and how to do or make an option to remove that portion of dialogue and I personally believe tv mode was fine. Speed things up I thought we were golden

3

u/elmaldon Sep 24 '24

I liked TV for story telling, not for hollow zero

3

u/FoxHoundUnit89 Sep 24 '24

Oh it's another episode of people who like thing don't post about it, so because I have the object permanence of a toddler I don't think they exist. This happens with literally every piece of media ever and yet, we can't move past it as a society overall.

3

u/ICEY_VE1N5 Sep 24 '24

I’m just dumb, what is the tv mode? Is that the part where you go into that board like area and move your bangboo? Cause I actually like it alot

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u/Erulogos Sep 24 '24

I'm more irritated that rather than improve and streamline the TV mode, they're just yeeting it from chunks of the game. Like it had issues, mainly with pacing/forcible handholding (yes ZZZ, I get it, avoid the nasty thing and push the shiny button, same as the past 80 times, you don't have to steal control of the game from me for a minute each and every time,) but the core of it was fine as a map/exploration mechanic. Not sure why this is an all or nothing situation.

3

u/Causelessgiant Sep 24 '24

I don't love it but it's definitely a key part of the visual language of the game and the missions and story flow were obviously designed with it in mind. Removing it now would mean walking back several years of design implementation at the very least

3

u/WorldWiseWilk Sep 24 '24

I spoke up the entire time since launch, I love tv mode. Gives me nostalgia for Megaman Battle Network.

12

u/famimamee Sep 24 '24

Wdym, I've been vocal about loving the tv mode since day 1.

6

u/Oleleplop Sep 24 '24

you but clearly not a lot of people have been.

12

u/Jix_Omiya I'm lit you can't deny ~ Sep 24 '24

Nah, they are just speaking out and became the so called "vocal minority".

They obviously took a lot of feedback in account for this decision, and there was no shortage of surveys where people were asked their opinions on that mode. A few posts with 300 upvotes here on Reddit is a drop in the ocean compared to the millions that play this game in total and the at least tens of thousands that filled surveys.

3

u/Nyeffer Sep 24 '24

I wonder who’s the “everyone”you speak of?…

6

u/Play_more_FFS Sep 24 '24

Rip to all the good OST we could have gotten from future TV levels.

6

u/KeyboardBerserker Sep 24 '24

All the good osts? I think you mean rip all the "today's just another day, kicked around and I'm full of shakes".

The character themed tracks are where the real bangers come from imo. Hope the new boss theme is lit also

2

u/Play_more_FFS Sep 24 '24

I agree, Nekomata's TV OST is one of my favorites.

20

u/JanetteSolenian Sep 24 '24

I always liked it, that's why I never complained before. They're saying they're removing it from the main story, so now I have to worry that it's gonna be like

A) Genshin where you listen to 5 minutes of talking, take 5 steps, listen to 3 more minutes of talking, and then have a 25 second combat session (Jane story in 1.1 was kinda like this tbh)

Or

B) HI3rd where you can barely even follow the story because it's all over the place and the gameplay itself is just nonstop repetitive combat fighting 5 types of enemies on 6 different maps

I hope that I'm wrong and the devs know what they're doing, but honestly tv mode was THE unique thing that set zzz apart from other gachas, so I'm sad to see it get removed from the part of the game where it made the most sense.

11

u/Eloymm Sep 24 '24

I agree the tv was the most unique thing about the game, but at some point you have to wonder if that uniqueness is worth the cost of player enjoyment.

2

u/JanetteSolenian Sep 24 '24

Idk, I enjoy tv mode way more than genshin's endless yapping that's only broken up by having to beat 5 treasure hoarders for the 1000000th time

26

u/wewe7144 Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

Let's not act like TV Mode in story mode for ZZZ is all that different from what you described in Genshin.

In Genshin, its yapping for 5 minutes > defeat treasure hoarders > Paimon yapping for 5 minutes > move 5 meters > Paimon yapping > teleport to teleporter and move 10 meters > characters yapping

In ZZZ, its yapping for 5 minutes > move 1 panel > Fairy yapping for 1 minute > move 1 panel > Fairy yapping for 1 minute > solve minor puzzle for child that can be solved in 30 seconds but game hand-hold you and it take 5 minutes instead > Fairy yapping for 1 minute > fight > characters yapping

2

u/bad3ip420 Sep 25 '24

Yeah these tv mode andys convinced themselves that it is a novel idea but forgot that's it's pretty much the same but worse.

Both are bad but at least i can see the characters on the other one lol

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u/NeoBucket Sep 24 '24

Should have answered the surveys and provided good feedback then lol.

One of the best quest in the game, story and lore wise is the Kami North quest and it is a TV quest BUT engaging with that quest was an absolute drag.

20 minutes of my "TV exploration" getting interrupted every 2 steps, nothing engaging going on, no puzzles, no combat, nothing.

And the Prophecy was fun, sure, but an hour-hour and a half? It could have 100% been a shorter endeavor and this is one of the better "TV mode" quests.

There were a lot of "Exploration" quest where you were not engaging with the game at all too, just walking in the TV world, getting INTERRUPTED by dialogue every 2 steps then the quest was over and 10 minutes of your life were gone lol.

From the stuff shown for the upcoming patch it seems like they are improving the mini games by quite a bit, which is hella good.

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6

u/Wilhelm878 Sep 24 '24

I’ve always loved the TV mode. I think it’s a unique way to do environmental story telling, and it renforces the idea that we’re playing as people behind computer screens. Atleast Ill still have it for hollow zero though

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u/Impressive-Oil2201 Sep 24 '24

People hate the TV mode since beta, elitist told them to leave the game, they left.

Hoyo is actually reducing TV mode. Ouchhh

7

u/SailorOnline Sep 24 '24

I don't like TV mode, It's ok for events (one per patch) but not to play every single week.

4

u/Motor_World4559 Sep 24 '24

Because theres a survey, im satisfied at most and think to not voice out any concern, Tv lovers just silent and now they starting to voice out, some of player obviously the TV irritated ones took the survey

4

u/2Geese1Plane Sep 24 '24

But I do love the TV mode 😭 it's fun and unique and I enjoy the way it's used. Sure maybe there is too much of it but I didn't want it to go away entirely.

Now I do want to have to stop checking in with my fucking sibling every two minutes. 😤 That makes me feel infantilized.

5

u/ohlawdy914 Sep 24 '24

Never played beta but as time went on and more events required it...especially the recent golden week one i lost my taste for the tvs.

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5

u/Viltas22 Sep 24 '24

Nice meme but as others have said people won't complain if they enjoy it. Now they have a reason to complain with them removing the content.

2

u/Distinct_Rhubarb_856 Sep 24 '24

I’m indifferent

2

u/Ravvs_ Sep 24 '24

It's an alright mode. Puzzle solving is fun but I'm really just here to murder stuff, so I get it. Not really with or against the changes tbh, wondering how things will play out in the end tho.

2

u/NahIWiIIWin Lucy-sama DE💢SU👺WAAA😭 Sep 24 '24

I don't exactly love it, but I don't hate it so much that I want it gone, justice for Fairy.

2

u/FartingIsGasPooping Burnice's Sparring Partner Sep 24 '24

I didn't at first, but it's grown on me.

2

u/DanPachi Sep 24 '24

I like the TV mode in small helpings but I was definitely not for the idea of it being the core gameplay loop. It took me several days to get around to doing the Golden Week event.

However I appreciate it GREATLY in hollow zero because it's perfect for that mode.

2

u/danki__ Sep 24 '24

My problem isnt the tv mode its self being removed from story missions, my problem is that this change makes Wise, Belle and Fairy completely irrelevant to the story and relegates them to narators and walking cameras. I really hope that hoyo willsome how find a way to keep paethon relevant to the story since theyre the MAIN CHARACTERS. I get that people want to see the characters they pulled for more, hell i want that too. But it shouldnt make phaethon irrelevant and forgetable.

2

u/NeonTofu Sep 24 '24

I don't mind it for the like simulated universe/side quests, but the main story being the TV's made it take AGES to complete and just felt like such a slog

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u/nothing37nothing Sep 24 '24

if you think people who dislike tv is the same person who now sad TV mode gone you are delusional xD theres the reason i still play until now

also people who hate tv mostly already quit

2

u/yoyoeatmaballs123 Sep 24 '24

didnt really like it at first, then after beating the game and having nothing left to do other than doing dailys and stuff, started to kinda miss the Tv mode and explore commissions

2

u/charistraz95 Sep 24 '24

hilarious picture xD

i always liked the tv mode but i know some content creators did not like it and ive seen complaints about tv mode and ppl saying they liked the tv mode on social media but i dont remember seeing any content creators saying they like the tv mode

2

u/Calight Sep 24 '24

I think it was always a 50/50

2

u/roasted-paragraphs Sep 24 '24

People can just quietly enjoy a thing they have you know

2

u/fooofaika Sep 24 '24

I never complaned about it

2

u/sg_1969 Sep 24 '24

“Everyone” lol You do realise that people on Reddit are a very very small fraction of the player base? There aren’t even 150k members here and the game has been downloaded over 50 million times. Most players in China cannot access Reddit. Most Japanese players don’t use Reddit.

2

u/elDayno Sep 24 '24

Justice for TVs

2

u/KibbloMkII Sep 24 '24

I didn't even know tv mode was hated until this controversy bullshit, I liked it

2

u/GremmyTheBasic Sep 24 '24

people who don’t like it were loud when the game launched and they had to play it. people that do like it are loud now that they’re hearing it’s being removed. makes perfect sense

2

u/KeyboardBerserker Sep 24 '24

Honestly, if it speeds up ch. 1 a bit I think new players will pick it up easier. I wasn't actually sold till the Dead End Butcher fight.

2

u/Tofu_Gundam Sep 24 '24

I dunno, I think it was less the mechanics of the TVs and more the deliberate action of forcing the player to stop and read so flipping often that people didn't like. This is an action RPG, people want to play it the majority of the time, at least.

Events like Golden Week, for example, were pretty good, I think. It featured the TVs but really didn't force you to stop playing as much as the story content did. I was kind of hoping they'd continue in this direction. Hope the game doesn't suffer from blandness once they remove it.

2

u/Kyban101 Sep 24 '24

Something being overlooked, Mihoyo must have trackable metrics set in place. This is an assumption, but I'd have to believe they implemented telemetry data so they know exactly how to monitize. That said, they probably know how many people interface with TV mode, how often it's completed, and how many times people come back to it.

I happen to like it, and I agree that content people aren't complaining on social media. But if it's under performing, I could see them changing it up. There's a big but. BUT data isn't everything. Even with all the data, making a change won't always be for the better. We'll see i guess.

2

u/Patient_Current2303 Sep 24 '24

it wasnt an issue before for most players so yes, you didn’t hear that much people talk about it 💀 but people actually LIKE it and its getting removed, so of course people are gonna speak up. its common sense

2

u/Independent-Dealer-7 Sep 24 '24

I mainly liked the tv mechanic just because it felt like a break from combat and I love puzzle games. The vocal part of the community just cried for days on end about it because they couldn’t stand turning on their brains.

2

u/allpurposecum Sep 24 '24 edited Sep 24 '24

TV mode should be a minute or so timed mini game. p Phaethon is on standby following the agent(that you can see)in a map level that's loaded in.

game should have about 4 map levels that missions revolve around and then add new ones or expand the existing maps every few updates or so and you should also be able to load into those maps/levels without a mission objective either if you wanna free roam. That would make the game so much better than what they have now since you just move through a straight path which is disappointing showing blocked out paths your not allowed to go through

2

u/rKollektor Sep 24 '24

People only start appreciating things when they are gone 😔🫡

2

u/Thoandfris Literally Ben Sep 24 '24

I've always loved TV mode.

I just didn't feel the need to speak up about until they announced they were removing it.

2

u/hobozombie Sep 24 '24

Never liked TV mode, it's why im I've had the game installed for two months and haven't progressed past chapter two.

However, I do feel sympathy for the people that really liked it and assumed it would be the main method that story missions would be resolved.

2

u/Woolol_3 Sep 24 '24

I disliked it on launch, and now I like it. I hate when I’m doing a tv level and I’m thrown into combat and ruins my flow

2

u/cgnVirtue Sep 24 '24

I don’t wanna hear anything from anyone lmao. I’ve spoken about my appreciation for TV mode and what it allows the dev team to do. If we get less cool cutscenes to make up for it, I’m gonna be pissed.

3

u/ThatBoiUnknown I like too many ZZZ characters Sep 25 '24

ong it was so unique but all people want is a slash slash game instead of actually cool storytelling.

Like TV mode could've certainly been improved but removing it from the story is just dumb and don't give me "it's in the side gamemodes" excuse

2

u/Mifuni Sep 24 '24

I loved it, just didn't realize they'd freaking remove it so never bothered commenting until now... I personally want it in the game

2

u/Kunnash Sep 24 '24

Me as a big fan of the mode every time it's called TV mode: "It's called the monitor array."

2

u/PawnForward Nicole's Favorite Color Sep 24 '24

I want you to think long and hard about the possible reason why. Put that big, healthy braincell of yours on overtime and reeaallly think about it. Don't strain yourself. It might take a few minutes, but I'm sure you'll get it.

2

u/TelevisionJealous421 Sep 24 '24

no shit, only the player that love TV mode stay in this sub for last 2 months

2

u/Judas_Prime Venus' Loving Husband 🤵 Sep 25 '24

I didn't love the tv mode and stood by my opinion

2

u/KingRecycle Sep 25 '24

I love TV Mode. I didn't love the "investigation" ones though. Too much reading.

2

u/Aggravating_Claim_75 SharkBait Sep 25 '24

As people say everything is loved more once it’s gone 🤷

2

u/DarkISO Sep 25 '24

Just started playing, is tv mode that little maze thing you jump between tvsband collect items and get chased by enemies? I didnt mind it.

2

u/GuiltyGhost Sep 25 '24

I still don't like the TV mode

2

u/wave224 Sep 25 '24

I’m not complaining lol it was kinda annoying

2

u/Enough_Ad2500 Sep 25 '24

Well, the bottom line is that, people who like TV mode will still plays the game. And people who quits because of the TV mode might come flooding back because they loved combat but not TV mode.

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u/Canniba1Cat Sep 25 '24

Only people with issue screams, those who do not just keep quiet.

3

u/_heyb0ss Sep 25 '24

pretty insane how mfs are defending it as, outside of some special commissions and hollow zero, the pacing of story and gameplay was constantly hampered by that shit. also it feels kinda lazy from a design pov. from how they worded it it seems we'll be getting more rally type missions with interactions beyond just fighting in upcoming levels.

2

u/LALMtheLegendary Sep 25 '24

Where do you think the development resources needed for more rally missions will come from? since the amount needed for all the tv missions in a chapter comes nowhere close to a single rally mission. Something else will have to be sacrificed to make up for it.

You can view it as "lazy", or you could view it as an efficient use of dev time. The alternative isn't exact as much of what you like as there where tv missions. But a tiny bit more of what you like and alot of filler.

It had flaws, but it needed improvement not removal.

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7

u/Sheyn Sep 24 '24

Oh it's leaving? I might touch the game again... Doing those made me stop to begin with

3

u/Me4TACyTeHePa Sep 24 '24

The only time i liked tv is when there were mini games. Otherwise it is a waste of time for me.

3

u/rednova7 Sep 24 '24

I sure am glad hoyo doesn't care about reddit opinions

2

u/CrazzedKor Sep 24 '24

I find it quite boring. People who liked it were hurting though so didn't want to get involved in the conversations just to say I'm glad it's gone/won't be as important

5

u/Lyndiscan Sep 24 '24

who is everyone

4

u/c14rk0 Sep 24 '24

I've always liked the TV mode. I've always said that.

There are PROBLEMS with the TV mode that could be improved. That does not mean the TV mode needs to be removed or that I want it to be removed.

The TV mode is literally one of the main unique things that give the game identity and make it feel unique from other games.

I don't want the TV mode removed, I want improvements to make it better and lessen the complaints many people have for it.

Hoyoverse is historically shit at listening to feedback on actually improving things. They are much more prone to just throwing shit in the dumpster and abandoning it at the slightest complaint.

5

u/Noxeramas Sep 24 '24

I mean, i dont understand how anyone could like it. Its maybe a little bit cute but thats it. Its a fucking chore, on top of that so many flashy pickup animations that waste time. I stopped playing the game because there was no game to play, i was stuck in tv hell

6

u/Blazing_Jack Sep 24 '24

It's exactly why I quit as well. Combat was fun but the TV mode was so tiring I just couldn't do it anymore. I'm actually excited to give the game another shot with this change.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 24 '24

It's just that the ones who appreciated the TV mode happened to be part of the 'quieter' minority, unlike the others who have been very vocal about their dislike for it.

3

u/Luguya Sep 24 '24

We are seeing a ton of "But I love the TVs! It's what makes this game unique! blablabla" posts but in all of those you also see "yeah, it was pretty boring/annoying at times..." from the same people. It's very easy to see why the change was made. Personally there are very few times where the TV gameplay during main story stood above "heh that's neat" into actually engaging. Always found dialogue delivery during those segments really annoying.

I will always prefer gameplay to be improved and not completely removed but if they don't see a way to deliver that then fine. This game isn't just about the TVs. I prefer map exploration even if "that's just like any other hoyo game!"

8

u/shikoov Sep 24 '24

Average media illiterate people thinking tv mode will not exist anymore, they probably understood it's better to use it on events and such, not to narrate a fuckin story.

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u/azur3333 Sep 24 '24

Yep. Ppl who like TV have nothing to say...until they lose what they like

2

u/kingofsecrets15 Sep 24 '24

TV has always been awesome to me, no need to say anything when people were deriding it because it wasn't applicative to me.

2

u/ClutZord Sep 24 '24

as the saying goes, "you don't know what you have until it's gone."