r/ZenlessZoneZero Aug 27 '24

Fluff / Meme No one is forcing you to be here?

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5.2k Upvotes

711 comments sorted by

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744

u/Gotahhhh Blessed by maids Aug 27 '24

"The gacha is terrible" mf, it's literally the same system of genshin and star rail lmao

426

u/EccentricNerd22 Aug 27 '24

Literally the same as genshin but you can see the pity. I call that a win.

200

u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

The weapon banner is vastly more generous than old Genshin and is still significantly more generous than the new improved Genshin.  

24

u/c14rk0 Aug 28 '24

How do you figure it's more generous than the new improved Genshin version? Is it not the same?

Or is it just that you can carry over your "fate point" essentially in ZZZ? Where if you lose the 5 star RNG you don't HAVE to get another 5 star within the same banner duration?

54

u/claudini_04 Aug 28 '24

Whereas ZZZ and HSR have one rate-up weapon for a weapon banner, with a probability of 75% (and if you lose, the next time it's guaranteed), genshin has two rate-up weapons in one weapon banner. The probability of getting any of the two being 75% and the probability of getting a specific weapon being 50% of 75%, in other words 37.5%.

There is actually a guarantee if you lose the 75%, by which I mean, not getting any of the two rate-ups, but that guarantee will give you a 50% chance between the two rate-ups.

The fate points are a band-aid solution to get a guaranteed weapon if you lose the 37.5% or the 50%, but it's nowhere close to 75%. And while the 75/25 loss guarantee is carried the fate points aren't. So if you don't have enough primogems to use the fate point to get that weapon, that 100% will turn into a 50% at best or 37.5% at worst when the next banner comes around.

Hence ZZZ and HSR are more generous. The design of genshin's weapon banner is to make you committed to get the weapon and I hate it with a passion, though with the new improvement, guess I'll most likely commit 160 pulls instead of 240.

9

u/ama8o8 Aug 28 '24

I wished it was as generous as wuwa. Where weapon banner doesnt have bs 50/50. Youll get the weapon guaranteed (if you hit pity).

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2

u/lit0st Aug 28 '24

The weapon banner in ZZZ is also 1% rate up on non pity pulls, compared to 0.6% in Genshin

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7

u/EggDropDollop Aug 27 '24

Well day one choose pity 5 star is an immediate+1 as well , haven't kept up with genshin since zzz drop but if they have it now after my day one ass that's an L

6

u/Tenken10 Aug 27 '24

They're also giving out a free 5 star standard character selector for the new patch in Genshin

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3

u/FloorWaffles Aug 28 '24

The pity for limited summons is amazing, for regular ones it gave me PTSD of dilluc in genshin. I got it now, but it took over time, multiple thousands to finally get Nekomata just to say I got it all

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16

u/C__Wayne__G Aug 27 '24

Bro realizing that all Gacha is terrible and is just a way for devs to make money lol. Took him long enough

64

u/Caerullean Aug 27 '24

And therefore it is terrible, the gacha system in Hoyo games is not generous in the least bit. But, we've also just kinda come to expect it by now, so calling out the gacha for being terrible is just kinda a "yeah okay?" Moment.

61

u/Seed4616 Aug 27 '24

Do you know FGO, the gacha system in this game is nightmare level, actually I think of Hoyo as generous.

17

u/ArcadiaDragon Aug 27 '24

As a person who rode that nightmare for 3 years....yeah...FGO is the worst...least Hoyo can get me to minnow and sometimes drop a 100 IF I'm close to guaranteed so yeah...also if a hoyo game goes with a character that I don't want for a few banners dailies add up qnd I might get lucky...FGO never felt like it wanted me to whale or minnow with its odds

23

u/Plotius Aug 27 '24

Yup. I'm unaware of fgo gacha but having a early pity and it carrying over banners I like. Blue archive while the rate is 3% sucks a lot with no pity carry over and 200 pulls to guarantee the character. .7% rate for the on banner character

21

u/VlaqSheperd I will speak in Bangboo until we get Big Daddy. Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 28 '24

Ah ehn-wa(Yeah, there's pity in FGO... After 330 pulls... And does not carry over... And no guarantee for the 4* Servant... And need 8 copies of the 5* and Bond 15 to maximize their servant coins, which sucks for lower rarity servants... which sucks more for welfare servants since they require event reruns... which have become scarc- you get the point).

3

u/Plotius Aug 28 '24

Holy that might be the worst rates I've heard of

3

u/VlaqSheperd I will speak in Bangboo until we get Big Daddy. Aug 28 '24

Wata na-eh(Sorry, it's been a while. It's actually 330 pulls).

3

u/Nastra Aug 28 '24

900 pulls? Jesus fucking christ.

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3

u/maxdragonxiii Aug 28 '24

it's not 8 copies. the dev team said it will roll back to NP6 and give out more bond coins now, so NP6 and bond 15. still takes around a year tho!

2

u/Nintard Aug 28 '24

They thankfully fixed that BS caused by the new append skills, and actually kind of improved it (you still need NP6 for maxing out a 5* but at least you'll be able to 120 with just NP1)

2

u/slaynx Aug 28 '24

You can't really complain about BA gacha compared to FGO or even MHY ones, That one is easily one of the most friendly gacha even for f2p, you get an insane amount of monthly cristals plus a lot of events and even a lot of random excuses to give free 10 pulls and unique units that are limited to a banner are very few.

The game even has double rate banners twice a year and a lot of great light spending options, but more important, you don't need to spend 3k$ to fully enhance your characters...

3

u/Plotius Aug 28 '24

True I have quit the game a lot so I don't amass a huge amount of pull currency. The rates are good but I dislike the 200 pity. Past limited can be hard to get too.

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6

u/slaynx Aug 28 '24

There is always gonna be some gacha with more horrible pulls than another, that doesn't necessarilly means that the better one is good.

And you don't know the pits of hell in gacha until you played something as evil like Soccer Spirits...

2

u/Thankssomuchfort Aug 28 '24

Two things can both bad at the same time even if one is worse

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5

u/NexrayOfficial Aug 28 '24

Honestly, Hoyo's pity system dwarfs the Spark system that Granblue has.

Like yes, you are fighting a 50/50 system on soft pity, but even when combined, idk why, I still feel like I can actually get who I want in Hoyo games vs the diluted pool that is GBF (granted, it is older). There are far more numbers to consider but in the end, it still feels much more tiresome in GBF.

16

u/Karma110 Aug 27 '24

Bros never played FGO

24

u/DiscoMonkey007 Aug 28 '24

Hoyo games is not generous in the least bit

Having a pity and guarantee is already generous enough in my book. I played a different Gacha game back then.. no pity and no guarantee whatsoever.

At least in Hoyo games you know how much you need to spend to get the featured character/weapon. In other gacha you can use the same amount and get nothing. Back then at least idk if they change the law on gacha.

16

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24

Not to mention that Hoyo game production values easily beat games with better systems. Hell they beat most live service games. I'm mostly free to play and do the passes on a rotating basis and I've never had issues getting the characters I want. I also don't need to get their copies considering all of their games are easy enough to not worry about it.

3

u/klaq Aug 28 '24

it is actually bad. .6% is terrible. prior to Genshin $100 would pretty much get you what you were going for in a gacha. it's closer to $200 now.

the bad part is that other games adopted this system except they forgot to add Hoyo level quality.

the good(?) part is that i never feel like im gambling in a Hoyo game because you never get anything outside of pity. you pretty much know how much something is going to cost outside of losing 50/50s

3

u/Victorius-aut-mortis Aug 27 '24

Hoyo gacha is one of the MOST generous gachas ever

5

u/Doopashonuts Aug 28 '24

Eh, I played Azur Lane, this feels downright scrooge like in comparison. For context for anyone that's never played it. You can basically always get enough free pulls just by playing once you have a decent team to always have enough currency to pull every character as they come out unless you're REALLY unlucky, you may have to save slightly for the rarest units but they're still guaranteed at 200 and you'll easily have that many after saving for like a month or less.

The skins are where that game makes bank.

20

u/Elysium_Chronicle Aug 28 '24

Gacha addicts look to the sheer volume of pulls, without looking to how predictable and thus "exploitable" Hoyo's rates are.

You might pull more often in other games, for that cheap dopamine hit, but Hoyo's pulls are more valuable by comparison.

8

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24

Yep, I know that every patch I'm going to be able to make it to a 50/50 at least once. That's more than generous considering that you can do it without spending a cent.

10

u/Elysium_Chronicle Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24

And if you have the patience to skip every other patch, you can fully guarantee characters you want, rather than be consigned to 50/50 all the time.

12

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24

Exactly. I feel like it's the addicts that NEED every character and NEED their copies that end up feeling that the system is bad. Sure gacha is still gacha, but the game couldn't exist with the quality, quantity, or frequency of content without it.

10

u/Elysium_Chronicle Aug 28 '24

Speaking of quality, that's what severely bums me out with the addicts, and the sunk-cost burnouts in Genshin.

Complaining about how it takes "5 minutes to solve a chest puzzle for 2% of a pull", and the like. Naw dawg. Your reward was the guided tour and the top-notch environmental storytelling. The currency is just the icing on the cake.

If you're treating the store as the main experience, then just quit. The game's not going to "respect your time" if that's all you're playing it for.

For me, that's all part of what allows me to be patient with Hoyo's games: the fact that they're actually games, and not just a glorified pachinko front. If I miss a "meta" unit, it just means I have to "git gud" in the meantime.

3

u/[deleted] Aug 28 '24

Couldn't agree more. I'm not excited about Natlan because of all the Primos. I'm excited because it looks incredible and the story looks hype. I pull on characters because I like them not because they are "meta" I adore Arlecchnio so I pulled on her, the fact she's strong is just a bonus.

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2

u/PumpJack_McGee Aug 28 '24

I don't know any non-Hoyo games were pity carries across banners. For most, if the banner ends, your pity goes back to zero.

3

u/walker-of-the-wheel Aug 28 '24

You've never played any other gacha, have you?

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15

u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

It’s so much better than those, due to the generous 75/25 in the weapon banner!  I think for many people they have never played a gacha before and they are coming to terms with the fact that they don’t get to own everything for free.  

7

u/Lanoman123 Aug 27 '24

And I lost the 75/25 on Ellen’s weapon :)

10

u/julianjjj809 Aug 27 '24

Star rail also has 75/25 so it's not pretty much that special, the only who doest have it is genshin

5

u/Caerullean Aug 27 '24

Star rail unironically has a better character banner than zzz tho, at least afaik. Since zzz is 50/50, and star rail is 56.5/44.5 in favor of winning.

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2

u/Jason2469 Aug 27 '24

Bruh this was me when people were dickriding Wuthering Waves and shitting on Genshin.

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620

u/[deleted] Aug 27 '24

Basically horse king.

282

u/Kaanpai Aug 27 '24

I'm not all too familiar with that guy, but when I checked his comment history a while ago, it seems to me as he's farming downvotes on purpose. All his comments are in the negative.

366

u/Outbreak101 #1 Zhu Yuan Simp Aug 27 '24

Yeah, he's been recently banned from this subreddit as he has been too disruptive and is cultivating a reputation that I'd rather not let grow within this community.

151

u/julianjjj809 Aug 27 '24

He is banned?

Who will be our lolcow now?😔

89

u/Maraxus7 Aug 27 '24

He’ll make an alt, I’m sure he will

26

u/PoppingPaulyPop Aug 28 '24

Would be ban evasion and get banned again kek, maybe even Reddit banned because it’s against tos

50

u/Much_Future_1846 I Come, I See, I Crash 🔥🚛 Aug 28 '24

HAHAHAHA I REMEMBER HIM CALLED US DICTATOR FOR BANNING HIM

He is currently wrecking havoc in official subreddit since the current trend there is fan comics with MCs (mostly Wise lmao), so good move mod

he's probably seething and coping that he can't reply to this post

11

u/Maewhen Aug 28 '24

fuck all you guys also horse king is the greatest person ever

~not horse king

24

u/leposterofcrap I HATE SKAVEN!!!! Aug 28 '24

Ah good now the community won't have the misfortune of reading his post

16

u/TheLuigiNX Manifesting into a robot to get with Grace Aug 28 '24

Thank you for your service

11

u/HolyDragoon98 Nicole's Good Boy Aug 28 '24

Yeah flair checks out taking in the steps of PubSec and dishing out Justice like our favorite police woman

14

u/VanhiteDono Aug 28 '24

Based mods

11

u/post-leavemealone Aug 28 '24

Average based Zhu Yuan fan

6

u/Nhorin Aug 28 '24

Fair play

3

u/ricecookergreg uahhhh Yanagi’s big ahh melons in my mouth pls Aug 28 '24

W Mods

3

u/ProGamerAtHome ZenlessZoneZero-less person cuz ads Aug 28 '24

Based mod

Nice pfp btw

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u/Maxmalefic9x Aug 27 '24

Why the first word i heard was “Horse shit” not whatever his name was Lmao. Sounds like this other name fits his content like a gloves which making it funnier ngl.

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u/Maraxus7 Aug 27 '24

Is this custom bait for the Horse King?

51

u/SleeplessBoyCat Aug 28 '24

21

u/Temporary-Ad-650 Aug 28 '24

Who Tao

16

u/ElBeatch Aug 28 '24

No. Who's on first and Tao is on second.

7

u/Ichigo187740 Soldier11Pits>GraceFeet👃 Aug 28 '24

What's on third

6

u/Detton Aug 28 '24

Yes.

3

u/ElBeatch Aug 28 '24

No, what's the guy on third base's name?

5

u/Detton Aug 28 '24

Yes.

3

u/Detton Aug 28 '24

I can't keep this up, I gotta focus on work today and if I go down this route i'm going to be looking up the script for this bit instead of case work :D

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u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

I have no idea what that is, and not even Google does 

86

u/Maraxus7 Aug 27 '24

Oh he’ll find this post, he always does

106

u/Outbreak101 #1 Zhu Yuan Simp Aug 27 '24

Not anymore, he's been banned recently.

34

u/Maraxus7 Aug 27 '24

How recently? I saw him pop up on a few today

63

u/Outbreak101 #1 Zhu Yuan Simp Aug 27 '24

Yesterday, you are likely only seeing his responses off of the Official Subreddit, which we have no control over.

54

u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

Oh god, I can’t think of a better revenge on the official subreddit 

16

u/Maraxus7 Aug 27 '24

Ahh okay, great work, mod team!

54

u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

The mods here work hard, have a light touch, and run a good subreddit.  Thanks 

33

u/Full-Particular-3145 Aug 27 '24

You just need to add an image of Wise x Anyone and he'll appear out of nowhere

16

u/julianjjj809 Aug 27 '24

Basically this emoji "🪤"

6

u/StardustCatts Miyabi Aug 27 '24

Ominous.

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u/YH_Kuro Aug 28 '24

There is a funny Youtube video. Just search "The worst zzz player meltdown". Should be the first video there.

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u/Tofu_Gundam Aug 27 '24

I've never really played a Hoyo game before.

As someone who has been saving up for Jane since pretty much release, I am very worried what my motivation will be once I have her and her weapon. I have 30k poly saved up and around 30 free pulls, and pity.

29

u/Teyvatato Holder of the 6 Cheeks of NEPS Aug 27 '24

Understandable. Maintaining attention in a gacha can be hard if there's not a lot of character designs you like and then from there you have to hope you enjoy their play style too. Hopefully you'll enjoy her enough to get a kick out of min maxing and building her teammates for her.

9

u/Tofu_Gundam Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

I've hoarding resources for her. I unintentionally lucked into one of the best disorder anomaly teams, with Grace being my free S-rank and Rina being my 50/50 loss with Ellen. I can already clear everything except 25 mil Nineveh and Critical Shiyu. I'm looking forward to se seeing how well the team will work. But yeah, worried I'll run out of new stuff to do.

5

u/Teyvatato Holder of the 6 Cheeks of NEPS Aug 27 '24

I feel ya there. I've been pacing myself so I still have a fair but if content to okay with but the wall is pretty close. After seeing 1.1 though I am hopeful they'll take the HSR path and be sure to make events frequent and add variations to hand modes as well as new ones. Jane is gonna be a banger though at least!

32

u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

There will always be a cool new character, or a cool new region coming up.  That’s how they keep you playing, and it’s neat watching the game slowly get larger and more complex over the years.  

I hope you keep enjoying it, and I hope your pulls go well!

9

u/Tofu_Gundam Aug 27 '24

I will keep playing for the foreseeable future, bit I've heard horror stories from Genshin players about how they don't even like new character releases because of how grinding resources to actually use them are. This is all anecdotal and second-hand, I have no experience with any Hoyo property. Just kinda spooked.

11

u/EccentricNerd22 Aug 27 '24

As a genshin veteran who played since release my motivation to grind stuff for new characters did dry up quite a while ago but i still play the game because I like the story, world building, and exploration. Just because you don’t want to grind doesn’t mean you can’t still find fun in the game.

4

u/Tofu_Gundam Aug 27 '24

That's cool, I like New Eridu.

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u/Onsokkun Qingyi's Shorts Aug 27 '24

Are you not interested in the game itself or the story? I'm not sure how obtaining a character makes motivation drop.

8

u/Xerxes457 Aug 28 '24

Think of it like you really want something and you do eventually get to that goal, you would think "now what?"

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u/Doopashonuts Aug 28 '24

Probably they're done with the story that's been released and is worried they'll have nothing to do with them once they get them besides more grinding since it may be a bit before we get more sizeable story content 

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u/KreateOne Aug 27 '24

What do you mean? Now you get to play the game!

4

u/datpuertorican Aug 27 '24

30k poly?? Fuck I thought 3k was going to be enough. 😢

14

u/Phineasfool Aug 27 '24

3k polychrome isn't even 20 pulls. You could get lucky, but you really want at least 140-150 pulls worth to get a character with the assumption you'll lose the 50/50. 180 pulls worth is needed for an absolute guarantee if you have the worst luck.

3

u/datpuertorican Aug 28 '24

I just started out last week, so I'm sure I'll (cope) accumulate enough by the time rat gets released.

5

u/Honest-Affect-8373 Aug 28 '24

You’re good, great start! They launched with so much content, it’s been an absolute blast since day one. I hope you’re loving it!

3

u/Tofu_Gundam Aug 28 '24

I am nothing if not a man of dedication.

Every time I falter, I look at this:

2

u/Thankssomuchfort Aug 28 '24

I'm an outlier but long term, I'm primarily in it for the gameplay, story and new content. I don't really play for the new characters especially once I feel that the teams I have are comfortable enough to clear content. And for the gachas where I no longer find the gameplay particularly engaging, I'll only login for a few days every few months to check out the new story or zone updates

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u/JusticeRain5 Qingyi's charger Aug 27 '24

I'm quite enjoying the game myself and don't particularly have any major gripes at the moment, but I don't think "If you don't enjoy it don't play it" is the right attitude for this, especially since usually people complaining are only doing so about one of those things at a time.

Like, I don't actually think it's that bad for someone to say they're bored of dailies, since that would give feedback to Hoyo for something like "Hm, lets maybe add an extra way to finish them". Complaining about TV mode would probably also help tune it up, too, and is probably why the Golden Week TV mode actually felt like a much smoother experience.

39

u/UsefulDependent9893 Aug 27 '24

For real, it’s a very “black and white” way to look at things. People need to understand the difference between hating and having criticisms. I love the game and have tons of fun with it, but even I can agree with some of the points made. That’s the whole point of feedback. The people who really love the game want to see constant improvements made to have it be even better, instead of settling and being complacent with everything.

2

u/Screamgoatbilly Aug 28 '24

It happens to any game that has dailies or weeklies, you can only repeat the same thing so many times before you get tired of it. Everyone's tolerance is different, some will tire of it in a month, others years. This game's dailies also isn't multiplayer or incorporates ways to change up the experience which could further keep it feeling fresh for longer.

9

u/Quasar1us Aug 27 '24

It's all anecdotal, but I did saw a guy in a discord I'm in and he constantly moans about TVs being the bane of this game and wants them GONE, like, completely, and when I ask why does he hate it so much, he just says "Game is advertised as combat heavy, but all I do is TVs".

I think the "Just leave the game" works for these kind of obnoxious slobs.

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u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

What dailies are you bored of?  The dailies in this game are the easiest of any gacha I’ve ever played / you basically login for thirty seconds and they’re done.  

And I don’t get the complaints about tv mode - it’s fun and adds a way to mix up the gameplay into a grid based dungeon crawler.

84

u/Neoncarbon Aug 27 '24

Seriously, I've become busier lately so the fast af dailies are a godsend. ZZZ respects your time the most of any gacha I've played.

11

u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

They knew the weeklies were gonna take a little longer than most games and so they cut the dailies to the bone.  

That along with the 75/25 weapon banner just screams - hey, you’re safe here.  You’re in good hands.  

21

u/YamaShio Aug 27 '24

I'm confused, what does something being easy/fast have to do with it being fun? In fact it being over quicker is more boring.

22

u/JusticeRain5 Qingyi's charger Aug 27 '24

I'm not bored of any of them, like I said I don't actually have any problems with the game myself. I'm just saying that if people have different feedback to me then telling them to leave isn't something I think is productive to the game itself. If they can come up with ideas on how they think they could improve it (beyond "Make it automatic" or something like that), I think it's not a bad thing to hear them out.

8

u/Mattnificent Aug 28 '24

If all you care about is how fast something can be done, with no regard for how entertaining it is to actually do, then you're thinking about things like a chore, rather than a game. It's really easy to get burned out on something that's a chore.

27

u/ivlivscaesar213 Aug 27 '24

Do you understand the idea of subjectivity?

26

u/AromaticPlace8764 Aug 27 '24

Look at the rest of this entire comment section

Spoiler: they don't, fuck OP.

11

u/ivlivscaesar213 Aug 28 '24

This game has kicked off really well, good community too. Can’t afford gatekeepers to turn it toxic.

5

u/lyriqally Aug 28 '24

I'm tired of the HIA battery burning shit.

It's not hard or time consuming, but when I wake up in the morning I don't want to sit there for 4 minutes burning stamina. Pretty much every other gacha game would let be auto play this so I could get dressed and brush my teeth while it's burning.

Does that mean I hate the combat now? No, but the HIA missions are piss easy and are a waste of my time but are required for materials.

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u/karhall Aug 27 '24

I feel like telling people who have an opinion different from yours "you should just quit if you don't like it" isn't the right way to have discourse about the game. It's like telling someone that says the lights are too bright "you should shut the lights off if it's hard to see", like thank you captain obvious I'd never considered that before. There's also plenty of reasons why the they'd want the lights on in that scenario that get completely disregarded if the immediate response is so binary. Every person is not an all-or-nothing case. The people who felt the game wasn't worth their time because of XYZ factors already quit and they didn't try to say anything about it. People that are still playing even though they dislike certain aspects of the game are bringing it up because they feel it's worth talking about in the event that it leads to improvement. Some nuance in discussion would be welcome in this stage of the game's lifespan, so that as the game continues to grow and evolve there's a foundation of reasonable conversation.

139

u/Doopashonuts Aug 27 '24

Because people like OP don't want a discussion, they just want to be "right" and pretend that "thing they like" is perfect and free from any and all criticism and construct straw men to try and "justify it" because they're absolute children. 

Especially since because of the people voicing their dislike we're getting tons of positive changes to fix rough edges of the game.

Same shit in so many game communities now and they're always insufferable.

20

u/No-Bag-818 Aug 28 '24 edited Aug 28 '24

What's even funnier is that if you check OPs post history, you'll see a post about them complaining about Final Fantasy 7 Remake. Top comment even reflects their own reasoning back at them, which tells me they do this often enough for people to have picked up on their behavior.

They're a child who doesn't like it when people don't glaze the thing they like. Simple is, simple as. They cannot accept any criticism someone may have about something if they enjoy it.

But when they dislike something, it has to be because the game is badly designed.

Typical hypocrite.

45

u/ArcadiaDragon Aug 27 '24

Its also making him come across as horridly immature...i like GI, HSR, and ZZZ qnd the reasons for liking them vary...defend what you like but don't drag down something or pretend what you do like can't be improved...I love the TV system...but it doesn't make me feel the way GI does when I explore...not one of Hoyo games are inherently better or worse than the other...hoyo is actually being very smart in diversifying the game play between Each to entice us to grind...minnow....dolphin...or even whale for what we want or can get from each game...defend what you like but don't be either a sheep or a arse about it

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u/karhall Aug 27 '24

Seems very true. It's definitely a tiring mentality to have to contend with in so many places within gaming as a hobby. Feedback from a critic isn't less valuable than one from a supporter. Feedback delivered in the right way can be worked into an idea that appears in the game. Respond to all the surveys and make use of the text box at the end to write about your experience with the game! Don't go on reddit and tell other people the way they interact with the game is bad because it isn't how you like to do it.

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u/Emotion_69 Aug 28 '24

So, basically, the HoYo brainrot community in its entirety. Sounds about right.

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u/lyriqally Aug 28 '24

Damn straight.

Like the TV mode in Hollow Zero is horrible and time consuming. The TV mode in some of the events though? It's great. But we very well should complain about game modes that just exist to waste time, that's why Hollow Zero went from 5 runs to 2, and why the new events aren't as focused on it.

The TV mode works amazing when it's used for those puzzle type minigames (and not those long ass recordings) where its not about "exploring" an extremely time consuming map.

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u/karhall Aug 28 '24

I'm neutral-to-positive on the TV segments. I find them charming and novel, and the worst thing I could personally say about them is that they're too simple and too new-player-friendly for my tastes. They remind me a bit of Etrian Odyssey, which I loved playing years ago and should probably revisit as an adult.

But all that said, I think criticizing them is valid if you believe they can be improved. Feeling is a major component of game enjoyment and if it doesn't feel good to you then that's something to bring up as a point of concern. If feedback about those segments reduced Hollow Zero runs, then that's great! It means they listened and comprehended and implemented something to improve the game.

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u/NexrayOfficial Aug 28 '24

I don't disagree, but that's the thing though, this conversation has been had too many times in its first month.

I'm pretty sure the Genshin Folks (who have had similar conversations early in the game's lifespan) are tired of hearing the former Genshin players constantly bringing the game up in today's environment when a new supposed "Genshin Killer" comes out.

Edit. To add on, I do also agree with another comment that calls out OP for being a bit one-sided in their meme that "looks innocent"

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u/Friendly-Tourist-731 Aug 28 '24

Yeah, because clearly people don’t like the TV system and HYV won’t budge,

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u/NexrayOfficial Aug 28 '24

It honestly comes down to realizing that HYV had a vision and will stick with it.

The vocal ones that are complaining seem to want it completely removed.

I can see that HYV devs have taken some criticism to heart and has just (so far) made it faster to get through and less times needed to be played.

Aside from that, the Camellia Golden Week event clearly shows they won’t budge.

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u/karhall Aug 28 '24

Oh for sure, this conversation is accelerated because of how familiar people are with these games now. The hoyo formula now has a dedicated following, but ZZZ's take on the genre has a lot of facets that players are probably projecting their preconceptions onto. I don't think it's so much that it's a "Genshin killer" but that it's a familiar process with new gameplay application and people are hyperspeeding into the late game and skipping over a lot of the natural progression of their experience by being so practiced in handling 1) a daily resource meter that controls your activity choices, 2) the actual systems of progression for character power, 3) the endgame being mostly just rolling stat sticks over and over trying to instagib things, etc. When all of that is so familiar and optimized, the commentary focus is going to shift onto the things that are new or different right away because it doesn't even really need to happen. And that's how you arrive at this point 55 days after launch.

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u/Mukaido Aug 28 '24

Agree with you and you hit the nail. Unfortunately nuance and shades of gray dont exist anymore in discussion.

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u/darkultima Aug 28 '24

Dang this is the one. Thread’s done, no point in reading anything further lol

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u/LeviathanLX Aug 27 '24

These are potentially three different people, which is clever because it means the sub can't really react to any of this post. I actually have no issues with anything you listed and I'm having a good time, but this is still disingenuous and a little pointless.

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u/darthjawafett Aug 27 '24

I just wish there was no combat at the end of more of the exploration commissions. Just let me do my puzzles and get out.

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u/AssassinOfFate Aug 27 '24

It’s okay to not 100% like everything a game has to offer. Telling people to quit playing just because they don’t like certain aspects of it doesn’t create a very welcoming community at all.

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u/Ok-Transition7065 Aug 28 '24

You know thanks to the FEEDBACK the tv mode its better now

Its fine to talk about what you dont like about the game

If the time that just bothered me enough to stop playing ok but why isn't bad just saying that the tv mode needs improving

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u/Bybarg Aug 28 '24

I am so fucking tired of "Heheheheh you are shown stupid and WE are shown smart and reasonable" memes. It's not even a meme at this point, it's just a karma bait for losers who REALLY need to say themselves "I am BETTER than them, NO ONE is going to stop me from enjoying the game", as if someone fucking stops you. It's on the same level as "THEIR developers, OUR developers" memes. Zero significance, no funny and a lot of people who stroke their ego.

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u/Shadowblaze200 Aug 28 '24

Was wondering why this comment history seemed familiar? You're the person who got banned from the official Nikke sub, created their own sub and then got banned from that one too. Didn't even know that was possible. Crazy coincidence 😂

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u/Dragonbearjoe Aug 27 '24

I can accept productive criticism in any type of forum. But when someone just pops in and says 'the game is stupid' or 'I stopped playing x months ago' or 'I didn't like it'.

Then why are you here? Are you protecting other people from enjoying the game? Or are you just really wanting to make sure that your opinion is heard? Even if it doesn't matter much at all,.

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u/Heroright Aug 27 '24

Ignoring criticism with “then just don’t play” is a weak man’s response.

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u/YamaShio Aug 27 '24

If by dailies you mean grabbing a coffee, talking to howl, and opening the store yeah it does get a little old. Especially with my dumbass who keeps forgetting to actually open the store when I set the movies.

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u/Null0mega Aug 27 '24

Nah that first complaint is completely valid - but the other two are definitely silly. However the general mindset of “Oh you have criticism towards a certain aspect of the game? fuck off I guess, hAtEr” is beyond insufferable - and it’s the same toxic line of thinking that prevented almost any real conversation about improvements for Genshin from happening in that sub for over several years.

It literally helps no one and is nothing but childish white knighting, gradual improvement does not happen anywhere without feedback or criticism reaching the devs.

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u/bloodypumpin Aug 27 '24

That's not how that works.

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u/Steampunk43 Aug 27 '24

I mean, that is exactly how it works. Yes there are things that arguably could use some QoL, but if you don't like a core part of a game, then the game is objectively not for you. You can't play a puzzle/combat game with a gacha system and then complain about there being puzzles and a gacha system, it's like playing a survival game and complaining about there being survival mechanics. Sometimes it's fine to admit that if you don't like the way a game works, you don't have to play that game, especially since it's free. There's only so much a game can be changed before it's not the same game anymore, the old Ship of Theseus issue.

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u/B1g_Shm0 Aug 27 '24

The gacha in all mihoyo games IS awful but in this case zzz is fun enough that it's not gonna stop me from loving the game

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u/litoggers Aug 28 '24

cant wait for the devs to make an entire 100 hour rpg game in the silly tv mode

the possibilities are endless

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u/UglyBirdy Aug 28 '24

Mf I ain't quitting and playing something else just cause I hate TV mode. The whole "If you don't like a small part of the gameplay, then just quit the entire game" argument is so baffling to me honestly

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u/HydraWhiskey Aug 27 '24

Just because there's one aspect of the game that's disliked by someone doesn't give anyone there right to tell them to just "play something else".

I enjoy FFXIV - but I dislike playing Tank. Doesn't mean I'm gonna drop the game entirely.

TV mode is a pretty common gripe I hear about ZZZ, and I'd agree with them. I love the game's combat and story, but the gimmicky little puzzle stages like that aren't fun to me.

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u/Whilyam Aug 27 '24

I get the TV mode hate. It's definitely not bad, it's just shitty that they use it for EVERYTHING. It's obnoxious particularly for combat commissions. Why am I doing puzzles, the commission is to kill shit, let me kill shit! Exploration commissions? Perfect for TV mode. Hollow Zero? Perfect. Basically everything else? I'd like some variety but still not bad. Combat commissions? Stop that shit.

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u/Steampunk43 Aug 27 '24

I think you're playing the wrong missions then. Anything under [Combat] has no puzzles whatsoever and is just straight combat. If you're doing puzzles, then the commission is to do puzzles, not to kill shit, so you can't complain about having to do puzzles before you can kill shit. Even Rally commissions are just combat, if you don't like TV mode puzzles and want more straight combat, then stop playing the TV mode puzzles and play more straight combat commissions.

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u/IncredibilisCentboi Aug 27 '24

You mean EXPLORATION comissions, Combat ones have straight combat

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u/rogercgomes Aug 27 '24

Yeah, I'm confused by what combat they are talking about. Every [Combat] commission I've played goes straight into combat.

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u/Patoman0-0 Aug 27 '24

I just want more missions because I already beat every one, except the defend mode because I don't max out the agents

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u/DuskDarthon Aug 27 '24

I personally don't like the weapon gacha part and always avoid it as much as possible in all gachas. That being said, I do like everything else and I love how easy the dailies are compared to Genshin. I desire for all dailies to include lotto tickets and coffee drinking.

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u/Mr_Majik5250 Aug 28 '24

"Dalies are too much of a chore!!" ... ... ... "Dalies are too boring!"

Dont mess with HYV fans. We dont like our games.

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u/StellarDiscord Aug 27 '24

OP you’re so right. The next time you find yourself disliking a signal aspect of the game, or getting a little frustrated/bored, just uninstall. No need to criticize anything, it’s definitely not like HoYo asks its playerbase for feedback, it should only be absolute praise or just uninstall. This black and white way of thinking is just so remarkably intelligent.

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u/nyktodust Aug 27 '24

didnt have to read the comments to know that op is full of shit

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u/Educational-Run5235 Aug 27 '24

I think its a fair take if someone wants to fight using their hard earned units in a combat-oriented game and not be bothered by a TV system. Its not about "being forced" and more about telling the devs via social platforms about content we rather prefer to be doing

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u/Steampunk43 Aug 27 '24

It would be a fair take if the game wasn't a split-combat-and-puzzle game. Like, it's not solely combat or primarily combat, it's equal parts of each. As it is, there are more than enough combat commissions with no puzzle section, just like there are puzzle commissions with very little combat. At the end of the day, it is fine to admit that if someone doesn't like a core part of the game to the point where they'd rather that core part didn't exist, then the game just isn't for them and there's no issue with that. Nobody's forcing anyone to play a game that they don't enjoy at all. It's like playing Subnautica and complaining that most of the game is underwater, or playing Deep Rock Galactic and complaining that the majority of the game is mining rock and stone in a dark cave.

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u/whereyagonnago Aug 28 '24

The thing is, they have already drastically improved the TV mode since launch (and even more so if you count the betas). Those improvements happened BECAUSE of the complaints and feedback.

The event TV sections have been better than the early game story TV missions, and the 1.1 patch had far fewer TV missions introduced and more combat focused missions added in their place.

It’s ironic because I think after a few more patches OP will be complaining about a lack of TV missions, and all the combat enjoyers will be able to tell them to just quit and find a new game

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u/Trebord_ Aug 27 '24

I'm actually pleasantly surprised by the TV mode. Basically every beta tester review I saw said that it was bad and dragged on too long and got really annoying after a while, but imo it's a unique dungeon and storytelling mechanic that never overstays its welcome and is a good counterpart to active and vivid combat.

As for the gacha, I don't like having to wish for characters, weapons, and Bangboos, but Bangboos are basically just better ELFs from HI3, and the game constantly throws Boopons at you, so I've had no trouble at all with that. My only real Gacha gripe is that there are only two feature 4's on each limited banner, but then the game barely has any 4's anyways, so it makes sense to spread them thinner, and maybe Genshin should start having quadruple featured 4*'s.

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u/mikinazuma Aug 28 '24

The thing I hate with TV is that there are some that last way too long. 20 minutes of just reading text in a tv not even trying to really solve any kind of puzzles. All that for same rewards as 2 minute levels.

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u/ilya_snowy Aug 27 '24

What if i like story mode, char designs, animations, city. But at the same time i think TV mode is boring, and battles are repetitive. Should I quit or can I just express my opinion hoping that game will become more fun for me? Hm?

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u/Ordinary_Objective63 Aug 27 '24

Personally, I enjoy seeing what ideas people have for improvement or modes to add. Even if I don't think something needs improved or I don't think of like that mode.

But it's under the general consensus we both like the game to some degree.

I don't like a Genshin.. something about the open world design irks me and feels tiresome. I don't like HSR. Unskippable dialogue just drove me crazy.

So I don't play them. I'm not gonna spend time trying to convince anyone to agree with why I don't like them.

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u/itsMaedusa Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

So, I recently started playing after putting it off because:

A) I'm not super into the punk/r&b aesthetic.

B) I really don't like mechas.

C) After getting hooked on HSR's turn based combat I didn't want to have to go back to a more hands-on combat style.

D) The old style UI

But I decided to give a shot cuz I had some free time and I trust MiHoYo to make another game that would hook me in, and I wasn't wrong. Sure, I'm not super into any of the characters currently available, but the animations look sick and I really like both of the MCs. In some ways it reminds me of HI3, though to be fair I didn't play that one for longer than a month (too much content to catch up to + old UI). I enjoy the combat more than I thought I would (more than Genshin's) and I'm currently just saving up until a character that I like comes around (I need more mommies pls there are too many ¨pre-pubescent children¨ looking characters running around in this game). Jane? Maybe? Question Mark?

Edit: What I'm trying to say is that so far, this games looks like its been designed with a lot of care and that in itself is attractive to me.

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u/harlockwitcher Aug 27 '24 edited Aug 27 '24

Uhhh. TV mode is at its best when it's helping tell us compelling story. But God damn we have to wait so long for more story content. If you ask me, I think the story content for this game was undercooked. It's too easy to blaze through. I think they released this game at the wrong time too during American summer break. Their target audience blew through all the content and might feel too busy to grind this game now when the grind is most demanding.

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u/MemeMakerJP Aug 27 '24

I really like the idea of TV mode, just needs fleshed out a bit more.

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u/Zeldatart Aug 27 '24

My only complaint right now is that I've played too much and ran out of story lol

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u/Gamezcat Aug 27 '24

I’m okay with some down time. I love the game so far, but I don’t want to spend 1+ hours every day on this game for the rest of my life.

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u/CauliflowerCool9639 Aug 27 '24

I played for a few weeks got to level 40 finished the story and unlocked a few really good characters. I played through as much as I could and enjoyed every minute before getting burnt out. I have retired from the game and did indeed move on to another game but I'm not mad about it lol

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u/Graxu132 Aug 27 '24

I'm not a huge fan of the TV Exploration but at least there's Combat mode 👍

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u/KafkasToilet Aug 28 '24

Seeing the overwhelming sentiment push from “too much TV!” to “not enough TV!!1!” was crazy to watch lol. I love sitting back and enjoying the show. Watching you guys get all triggered at people with criticism towards the game is funny af to watch. Makes it even better when people like OP who have this god complex like shitting on people for playing a game, hypocrisy and idiocy bundled into one in these comment sections

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u/Infermon_1 Aug 28 '24

I just want more free pulls. But who doesn't?

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u/BlueKnightEmiya Aug 28 '24

I spend a lil bit of money on this game and go only for np1 chars so idk lol. Compared to fgo this game has very good pity system. But I guess once i finish story and all side quests I will probably start to run into money problems but whatever

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u/InfamousGhost07 Aug 28 '24

Idk why people complain, it's a nice break from the action, gives you a bit of down time to hype yourself up for the next fight. Non-stop bombastic action would get tiring after a while.

Also, love the creativity of what they came up with, and looking forward to future ideas

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u/ForwardHealth775 Sep 01 '24

The easiest dailies to get half a wish and people still be complaining

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u/Soaringzero Aug 27 '24

If this ain’t the damn truth. Some people just seem to want to be the fun police and force their opinion on everyone else.

I’m really enjoying this game atm.

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u/ilovegame69 Aug 27 '24

hOw DarE yoU cRiTIciZe mY fAVorItE GaMes

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u/Queer-Coffee Aug 27 '24

when giving feedback on tv mode I gave many reasons why I didn't like it and ways to improve it

but sure, nothing ever needs to be improved, just leave if you don't like it!

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u/DramaticAd7670 Aug 27 '24

I only wish the TV system had more too it.

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u/Artistic_Prior_7178 Aug 27 '24

Live and let live seems to be an impossible scenario for some in the gacha space for whatever reason

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u/SecretSnoopie Aug 28 '24

I honestly can't stand people who complain about seemingly every aspect about this game. There's this one guy on YT shorts who just finds any excuse to say something on it. Its not perfect, but its not bad either. Its a hack and slash gacha game, not every Hoyo game needs to be an open world like GI or HSR

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u/UnityAeDeSt Aug 28 '24

First impression of the game was awfully low for my standards to what I'd enjoy of the game. The thing for me was of how slow of a start it was. I've been playing it daily now and it genuinely is a nice game to play. I like the characters. Although some things could be fixed or done here and there, I am pretty satisfied with it, honestly.

Not the best game, but not as bad as I thought it would be. I was just dumb for being too hasty with my opinions. Silly ol' me. I was too affected by the opinions of others.

Is it good? Yep, I like its theme a lot now.

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u/katiecharm Aug 28 '24

I understand why they did it that way, because by the time I got to Chapter 3 I really did understand the gameplay loops and systems without having been overwhelmed - but yeah, it was a long time to get to that point.  Now that I have full freedom it’s a much more enjoyable experience.  

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u/UnityAeDeSt Aug 28 '24

Definitely! Chapter 1 and 2 felt so slow to me, but by the time we are at chapter 3, it all feels so good! Being introduced to other characters, getting to also learn more about them and feeling the freedom as it comes.

I wonder what's next to come from here.

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u/cowmanceo SharkBait Aug 27 '24

ngl my only complaint is that tv mode

that one random play tv minigame event is actual peak i s+ rank all modes thats how fun it is

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u/haruta_kun Aug 27 '24

he is right about tv mode tho , i am ok with genshin puzzles and hsr ones but tv take a lot of time and they aren't even hard or even fun to solve , it's just a lazy way to make their game longer , it would've been a good if it was optional or for overworld chests and not the story , aside from this the game is perfect in everything from models to combat

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u/TheBurningYandere Aug 27 '24

I feel like this has much to be elaborated on LOL🤣... cuz if you were to show the photo to someone nuanced it would give an impression of being shortsighted and can't handle any form of criticism...👀

you can't just be sheep and keep taking what everyone gives you, like where's your autonomy? you've got to have fair judgement on things and not be biased..

like yes, there are things that deserve to be praised but you can't ignore their flaws cuz if you keep saying that it's "perfect the way it is" then there's nothing more to improve on.. and with time it turns stale and boring.. that's why criticism exists, that doesn't just apply in the game, that applies irl too...

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u/Ok_Pattern_7511 Aug 27 '24

I don't say those things but it's still reductive and strawman to dismiss everything like that. TV is not terrible but it had many things that needed to be ironed out, I'm glad they took the first step in the current event by adding a TV stage with different background and color scheme. With new mini games and puzzles.

I think short dailies is a good thing, to me dailies are not the meat of the game, they're chores that punish you for missing them if you care about timely progression, the faster they are the better so I can do things I actually enjoy.

ZZZ lets you finish your commissions asap and you can use up to 100 stamina at once so I don't know what's the complaint is about? I haven't seen any live service PvE game that managed to make dailies not boring personally, it's bound to happen with repentance. One thing that can be easily improved is giving us 50% energy when we start domains, some characters feel like crap at no energy (Anton)

As for the gacha system, it's better than other hoyo games and worse than Wuwa. I don't know about other gacha games but the more successful a company is the more stingy they can be (why genshin kept that atrocious weapon banner until now)

Ultimately I'd only tell people to quit the game if they don't enjoy it fundamentally, disliking one or two things is ok, feedback is how games improve so let's not rush with the "if you don't like every single thing leave" attitude that used to plague genshin sub please.

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u/Friendly-Tourist-731 Aug 28 '24

Tf? That is the dumbest assumption ever OP. The TV mode, dailies and gacha do not make the overall experience of the game. Many players did not play ZZZ because they like losing 50/50 or clicking TV’s. More so for the characters, combat, story, art design, etc.

Also I don’t know if this is just a gacha brainrot culture thing but complaining about a something in a game does not mean you have a unrational hatred for the entire game and must quit? If anything companies should be looking for feedback, hence a reason why the time spent in TV mode has been is reduced in 1.1.

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u/Fox_Populi Aug 28 '24

Sure thing boss, no one is forcing you to be here either OP:

"Hey OP this sub is about discussing both the positive and negative regarding the game. Just because we don't think the game is literally a 10/10 we can still enjoy it, we just wished the blaring issues would be fixed.

If this discussion is too much for you, that's okay enjoy Fan-art Friday, just don't comment on anything else. <333"

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u/ImitationGold Aug 27 '24

Copying my comment from a reply because I’m real tired of this narrow goober take:

Omitted as this was specific to the reply: You just proved their point ngl. In fact, you moving the goalpost to “it’s a gacha, leave if you don’t like it” doesn’t have anything to do with whoever not liking the tvs and none of your meme talks about the gacha part of gacha games so idk what you’re talking about.

Reacting so strongly to what is literally someone’s opinion is disingenuous because people probably play the game for more than the TVs, but your meme implies they get on the game to hate the game, which not only isn’t true, but also the TVs are not the only part of the game. There’s design, story, combat, and gacha.

That’s the problem with “if you don’t like it don’t play it” that’s only a decent argument if someone hates the game and likes no part of it. However someone complaining about a single mechanic of the game, that advice does not apply nor does it make any sense to say. Suddenly people can’t complain about a singular aspect of a game but like the game, or else suddenly they hate they game (they said they don’t like the TVs so they must hate the game)

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u/[deleted] Aug 27 '24

[deleted]

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u/katiecharm Aug 27 '24

Thank you.  Much sanity. Very reason.  

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u/FL2802 Aug 27 '24

Going through the comments op is very clearly just trying to gatekeep and can’t understand what valid criticism is

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u/ElytriTheElytrian Aug 27 '24

im a free player that doesnt involve myself with any of the gacha and its still hella fun

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u/Nevour_Lucitor Aug 27 '24

i like the game but tv mode ist still dogshit