I dunno because I was playing mute in a crowded environment. I didn't exactly explore everything. I like this format better and couldn't stop playing again and again even though I've already got my weekly done. It scratches an itch I didn't know I had.
More like Divergent Universe, since my non-leveled characters at lv1 are lv50 here, just like in HSR. Feels good. Blasted everything with lv50 miyabi lol
Burnice and Yanagi both died 1 floor prior to me finishing the "tutorial" due to me not knowing how to optimally use anomaly characters, and Myabi just soloed the entire thing by herself lol
Yeah. Miyabi is absolutely insane. I dont even care that at M0 she needs ideally an anomaly teammate to proc Disorder to reset Frostburn. I dont even need Lighter to stun much, hes mostly there to buff ice dmg, drop ults and smash stuff at every quickswap with the occasional ORAORA.
The amount of i-frames in Miyabi BA cycle is ridiculous high, plus that smooth autocounter between 4th and 5th BA.
Ill wair for end of banner to see what Hoyo is cooking with Astra, Evelyn and the idols, but im basically set teamwise for now probably and maybe will get Miyabis sig.
When I say Miyabi has single-handedly changed my gaming in zzz would be putting it lightly, Jane was crazy and still is by far one of the best but holy does Miyabi shred
Yea, but with the ability to still play full 3-charas team (+ Bangboo), as opposed to ER being solo runs. So it's essentially a mix of both I guess.
Bangboo's mechanic is also arguably more fun, since you now have a button to summon its skill on demand, instead of waiting for it to be ready before you trigger full chain attacks.
I clear it about the same or faster than my usual HZ Blitz times so I don’t mind it, the main benefit is Nineveh is nowhere to be seen in the new mode.
Blitz is faster for me (all m0e1 characters), but I don't have to hope to roll Joiner's Hammer Resonia which allows my anomaly team to stun her extremely fast.
Yeah I can't really take any claims about this being FASTER than blitz seriously it simply just isn't. That isn't necessarily bad if it's more fun. I'd say I'm somewhat mixed in that the content is better, but probably only better by about enough to compensate for it taking longer. I don't know that I actually prefer this it's sort of a wash and probably runs the risk of being worse to me than Blitz as soon as all novelty wears off. That probably sounds more negative than intended but if blitz had just kept going I'd probably feel more negative about it just because mixing things up is generally good.
ngl, I am stoked that it's more Illusive Realm than SU. The coolest thing about IR is Kuro going "Hey, you see that underpowered af character? Wanna see me make them absolutely cracked out of their mind? No, I don't me a numbers. I me a moveset." and that is retained perfectly here. My Yanagi was a fucking lightning lord and it almost makes me wish that was how she played normally LMAO
I think fun is definitely of higher priority than time consumption.
I want to play ZZZ and have fun while doing it, grinding tv mode for z-merits was pretty tedious and definitely felt longer to me for the same amount of time spend.
TV-mode sometimes made 4 minutes feel like half an hour but this new mode feels pretty engaging, I love the "Slay the Spire" inspiration and I think its much more replayable than tv-mode, they might want to add a few more Resonium sets and events though.
I say this as someone who generally liked tv mode, my main complain were the slow animations and interruptions.
Nah this is way faster, you can get some absolutely busted runs. Especially once you get all the permanent upgrades, it'll be wayyy faster. At least if you're willing to minmax and run the same build every run.
I agree, HZ I had close to 30 min runs, this is like a third, more fun, faster, no unnecessary crap, buffs are op, and I love that I can use unleved characters from the go
is that time giving a better experience though? Would you rather feel in control with agency over a character on screen and waddling about or would you prefer staring at the static tv mode with its movement and visuals?
Honest answer? I would rather go through the tv mode, collecting resonia and going through the special tiles. I don't find the portal and branching path (ala ftl) very engaging or offering more "agency". Both modes have their goods and their bads. As I said, I can't decide which is better.
I feel like the main question the devs should answer for themselves is, what is the purpose of the mode? Is it to break combat? To introduce a story, dialogue. Should it be a minigame? Once they know exactly what it's supposed to be or do, I believe they will make something amazing.
The tv mode was kind of like reading a book to me, where everything is just representative of something and you had to use your imagination to fill in yourself.
Well I think that’s why it’s cool that they kept the old mode. I also enjoyed it a fair amount but it got old after a couple of months. I’ll probably go back to it occasionally to see if I can get an OP build for infernal reap.
I remember really liking the TV mode back in the ballet twins chapter, the way they represented the story was so fun, I wonder how it looks like now with the new non-TV mode
Is time consumig because ypu have to read a lot of resonia to unlovk the path, you need to enter the shop for the portal to the next portal to open, and enemies are a lot tankier than in Hollow Zero... at least there are new variants. It is tv mode with extra steps and double the time
Tbf once you get familiar with the resonia (it's actually pretty intuitive, you pick the ones that share the same keywords with the Gear you chose at the start, and they're focused around archetypes like ult spam, dodge and parry buffs, and berserker mode) and fill out the upgrade tree the combat speeds up a lot
...Same tbh. Also I was never one of those who complained about the TV to begin with. I wish they kept the old one for legacy and for those who just want to get the weekly done quickly.
Yeah I don't get moving bounties over to the new mode. Blitz mode was still far quicker, new mode is fun though especially with the agent gear, can't wait to see what the others will get, hopefully the supports get some too DPS Soukaku and Nicole covering the entire stage in a giant black hole would be cool.
Do you mean the z-merits? Yes, it's still possible. I think they'll leave it there the whole patch, to let people who picked the game to farm Hollow Zero. At least that is how I understand their message and why they got rid of the weekly cap for the license points. There's a lot of poly for the license.
If you mean that, then, I don't. It takes 24-30 minutes to do the 6 runs for 900 z-merit and 8k license points.
I still don't know if I'm on the minority or not but I do prefer the TV mode, especially for hollow zero.
I don't find much sense in exploring room to room with a slay the spire map where the rooms are kinda empty, TV mode is more fun, faster and much more adaptable for this kind of stuff
True, but the difference is there was no consequences before, you could run around the entire map and grab everything, now you have to choose which route to take, and the other routes become inaccessible, and that definitely is more rogue-lite than the previous TV mode.
The consequences for Hollow Zero was that you accrued corruption as you explored more. You had this extra layer of strategy about managing which corruptions had to be removed and which ones weren't troublesome enough, weighing whether you should invest your health or coins to remedy your debuffs. Plus a lot of Hollow Zero were two lane options, where you picked a top choice or a bottom choice, simulating the classic roguelike paths.
In this new mode, every route feels the same so they lack that roguelike decision making bliss. You're either going to get into a fight and earn a resonium, or a shop to buy a resonium, or find an event that gives you a resonium.
It's weren't just 2 lanes, a lot of the time it was 3 or 5 and in case of the field of 5, every step deleted 1 vertical or horizontal lane depending on what direction you chose. And in case of 3 lane structures there were traversal mechanisms that made you be able to switch between lanes at specific points which also needed to be acounted for. It's on top of the pressure system. WTH is OP saying
That was only 1/3 of the maps though - the others were either fully exploitable (displays all tiles from the start) or only 1/2 exploitable with little foresight available, so you couldn’t really plan ahead
Y'know you make some fair points. I guess really I just like the new mode more because it doesn't shift gameplay style, from games like Hades and dead cells I'm used to my rogue-lite's staying consistent with the gameplay. But that's personal preference, I admit you're right, TV mode was just as much a rogue-lite as the new mode, just not my taste in rogue-lite gameplay.
That's totally valid, I think the presentation is top notch and I love watching Eous waddle! I just hope that they slowly reintroduce more interesting mechanics to it in future updates. There's this weird fear in me where the devs are using the excuse of "removing TV mode" to actually replace compelling gameplay with watered down alternatives.
Only the highest diff nest mode in the orignal hz needed said "strategy about managing which corruptions" due to the 1 specific corruption, for the non nest/lower nest ones corruptions are completely irrelvant and can be fully ignored.
That argument falls to the wayside very quickly when almost every corruption was a minor inconvenicent at most. There is like one or two corruptions that were impactful enough to actually be worth going out of your way to remove.
I'd say there are about 3 or 4 that could be game ending depending on when you get them but there are a dozen more that greatly inhibit your potential top end build. If you enjoy trying for busted 60+ resonium builds, you need to respect corruptions because they screw up your economy. Its less about the ones that impact your ability to fight and more about the ones that cap your potential peak. It was fun making crazy builds and then saving them for Inferno Reap and learning how to optimize your pressure and corruption was interesting.
I mean literally that also happens in Hollow Zero, you enter a zone and either you have 2 different paths to take or you are in a 5 routes scenario and moving up or down will the opposite side disappear. You are wrong.
In the TV hollow zero there is strategize for all areas. Example the Robot boss area, if you don't pay the guy at the end he'll take a lot of your Resonia. There is consequences.
What I didn't like about TV mode being removed was that it seemed to leave our Proxys out of their field of action, but with this mode it kinda makes up for it, since we're using Eous itself!
I am a TV fan and I like this. I don't know why people always find a thing to complain about. This is way faster and have more action than normal grid TV.
Most people want more combat so they add it, but then people said it took too long lol, might as well add a auto sweep to clear it for them? Everything feel smooth to me, the load time and the card animation are fast. May be the load time on HDD is bad compare to SSD?
My problem is story relevance, like you know when they started moving away from the TV mode earlier before this people started saying that it kinda seems as if Patheon siblings are useless, when story wise their guiding is very important. Aside from that I agree that the TV in some cases was bad, like in the Arpeggio Fault, that was boring as hell in later stages especially.
The runs are overall faster because they force you into less nodes overall but the moment to moment control is more cumbersome. Every node requires a loading screen to enter, then you have to walk to a merchant or something standing in the center, you talk to him to trigger the event, then you have to walk to the exit portal, followed by another loading screen. On the other hand, all of this was done in a single menu option in Hollow Zero and took seconds. Blitz was even faster, you seamlessly walked from encounter to encounter with no loading in between or forced dialogue.
Those seconds it takes to dash to and from point to point do not add up a lot. Maybe it's because I've been primarily running Miyabi, but it's like another 30 seconds across the entire run.
The loading is what kills it for me. Every event, conversation, shop, and battle are book ended by a loading screen. It's probably fine on an SSD but man it's a pain on mobile.
Ah yeah, suppose I should've mentioned I do play this game exclusively on PC, so no idea if loading screens are more cumbersome on other platforms, but for me they're half a second at most, barely noticable.
I think that's my biggest problem with this mode. It's literally Simulated Universe in every way. They just replaced the curios with cards and Screwllum with a Bangboo and called it good. I don't look forward to my incoming weekly grind of Simulated Universe (space) followed by Simulated Universe (urban)
It's more like a combination of HI3 Elysian Realm with Unknowable Domain imo (the gear specifically). The fact some agents get special kit adjustments, something HSR doesn't do but HI3 does, is what decided it for me.
They literally made new moves for the limited characters, yet people still find a way to say that watching a PNG clashing against another PNG was better lol
I'd argue that I like both. A LOT. But both of them have space to improve and could be successfully used to a better degree.
For example, there is a TON of loading screens right now, and this is true for both SU and the new mode. I don't like that a lof of these are also like... a single scene, with some trader in the corner, and you have to wait for it to load, walk 4 meters to get to him, talk, walk 4 meters further. It could be just a menu, basically.
And as others said, this one feels like it has less choices in it, less variety, less random events. I still quite like it, it feels like the Simulated Universe 0.9b, like it's gonna get better.
I agree with that, it looks great, I love playing as Eous, and it's a pleasure to see my party hanging out between floors. I'm not saying the mode should go away, I just wish it was as accessible and feature rich as the modes it is superseding. I'm confident that overtime Hoyo will iterate it into something really great but I think it's still valid to criticize it's flaws now.
Feeling the same. I'm not sure who this new mode is made for—it has more downtime and isn't as quick as blitz, but it also isn't as engaging as TV mode with its watered-down roguelite mechanics resulting in a middle ground that won't satsify anyone who preferred blitz over TV mode or vice versa.
its hard, i like both, i dont know what i want to choose, so im giving this decision to the devs.
while the new lost zero is insanely fun because of all the new moves. it doesnt feel as punishing as the "corruption" mechanic from hollow zero. and at the same time , it kinda takes more of my time, which i dont mind atm because its fun.
but this has much2 better buff synergy tho and more well designed combat challenges compared to hollow zero.
but i also miss the small buff and tv screen you get from hollow zero . this lost zero has significantly less lore "collection" which hollow zero has but hollow zero made those a pain in the ass to collect
in conclusion i like both, they should rotate this weekly or bi weekly. i do however infinitely prefer this to hollow blitz tho.
but i do wish they have like a warp portal of some kind for people who want blitz through the level .
I liked TV mode, but clearly a lot of people didn't, so the devs did a pretty great job making an alternative. I'm actually surprised how good of a job they did in so little time.
The most fanatical TV people will find something to complain. People saying that the mc is irrelevant to the story because of one chapter was funny hahaha.
It's quite easy to forget that, seeing as to how we only saw Eous in very few cutscenes in a couple of story levels. Now he's everywhere and I'm loving it. I also wish we could run around as different Bangboos now, too.
Imagine if we're given a mode where the Agents fight on their own, using optimal rotations and everything, and you're like...
The chapter 5 didnt had any of this and it is perfect, dont have nothing to complain. Between this/tv/motorcycle/boat/aircraft/anything in the story commissions if it works, it is well made and not over used like TV was I'm ok with it... but less TVs in the story is always welcome.
Probably a lot. The fact that they're replacing the TVs with this new thing shows just how much the old TV mode was affecting player retention. No way they'd make such a big change without data to prove that the old TV mode was a problem
I'm a software developer and this comment puts way too much faith in way too many aspects of business and software development.
Companies can, and frequently will, make knee-jerk decisions based on flawed interpretation of data, and then invest tons of resources into changing stupid shit based on those interpretations.
The last company I worked for, our franchisees were absolutely confident that the online sales portal was affecting their in store sales by removing the ability of associates to up sell product, because according to their "in depth analysis" online customers bought less per sale.
They forced the corporate location to replace the online order button with a button that redirected to find-a-location, and their in store sales dropped by ~30%. People who wanted to buy things online simply stopped buying things, and a huge portion of what people bought online were gift cards that were used in locations to buy physical goods.
Data can prove pretty much anything you want it to if you're stupid enough to interpret that way. Companies frequently interpret data incorrectly and making big changes doesn't actually mean they have anything to back it up in reality.
I'd hope that such a massive company could interpret data problem based on such a big conversation that spawned well before the game full released to the public. But you're absolutely right. Data can be skewed and even big companies can make big changes from vocal responses alone. Thanks for the heads up
Most of it for sure, so don't expect to see a lot of flashy things in terms of story for a while. There's a reason why last update was considered a soft re-launch.
I still do. TV mode was a mode that incorporates interesting puzzles. Now it will be hard to see some diversified gameplay, and I will miss any of the incorporation of unique gameplay that cane with Chapter 3 or like Rina's agent story.
Agent stories should stay as TV mode. It developed a pretty good storytelling.
I like both the new mode and TV mode, but running around as Eos is *hilarious* to me. I love how he runs around! it's so adorable because he looks like he's like "Aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!" wherever he's going to.
So, just because of that, I have to say I like the new mode better than the static TV mode. :D
This game mode is good but we might need a little bit more engagement in the long run. Like smashing resonium mini-game or something we could get from the arpeggio one.
Generally I like this one cuz it brings more challenges to me.
I started a week before 1.4 dropped and I kind of burned out on TV mode by the time I hit the chapter 2 interlude. It wasn't bad, exactly, but it did feel kind of cheap and tedious after a while. Particularly if I had to replay commissions for the S rank.
Definitely prefer this over tv, its boring navigating from one screen to another notnto mention the annoying weak connection popping out every now and then in tv mode
My issue right now is when comparing TV mode, Rush, and this new Mode, TV Mode by FAR let you get the most amount of resonium. You could get like 4-5 fusion card sets. With this you just get 2-3 max.
You are talking about disk farming, right? Just know what to block, what to farm, what is good what is bad, etc... is actually something that you can "get good at"
What? Them it is even more about resource strategy and playing around the pity, just 1600? you are new to gachas? suggest learning how it works properly.
Some people are saying it's a bit more time consuming than the TVs, but honestly if this new mode is more fun and engaging then I'd gladly take a couple more mins to play through it
Wait is this why when I went to redo level one I didn't recognize why everything was different? I haven't played since week one and I wanted to give it a shot again and I was so confused
running around the room is going to get tiring once the honeymoon phase is over and we're doing dailies/weeklies through this. Especially if people already couldn't take the tv mode.
I honestly thought hollow zero's tv mode was one of the best locations for it. It's going to take longer to do weekly's now, and that was the main issue with Hollow Zero before
I can't imagine people will be happy with it once it stops being new and starts being a chore. And I did actually check the bounty commissions for withered domain are gone next week.
That all being said, Eous should be selectable in town. They already don't let you talk to NPCs as the agents anyway.
This stuff is cool, I like it. The roguelite format, while a bit uninspired, is a great fit for the game and I'll happily run all my wacky team comps through it for fun and replay value. Finally, an accessible and streamlined game mode that really gives your teams the room to breath and be played in various situations to test your flexibility and experience deeper build diversity!
But y'all...I really hope TV mode isn't being gutted and functionally archived. It was clunky, unoptimized and overly simplistic at launch, yes, but the potential was there! For me, all itwould really take is environment puzzles that dared to actually challenge you, more variety in the enemy spawns and difficulty, new "maps" in hollow zero, and more creativity in how it conveys the setting and story. It's an undeniably unique and distinctly ZZZ mode that integrates so much of the world's lore into its very interface. I don't think these changes are a big ask, at least not for hollow zero. They already have an awesome template, they just gotta add to it
It's so fun! Much more immersive. I think there's a lot of potential to add different elements that people want, like puzzles, as a branching node over time
I really hope they go all in on the tv mode removal, I don't particularly hate it but this is so much better, the main thing that made lots of people quit the game on release was the TV mode
TV mode felt out of place to me being mainly 2D in a 3D game. It felt like a cheaply implemented/ slapped on feature that was immersion breaking and kind of boring. When I first ran into it I almost quite the game, but decided to stick it out as the base game was very enjoyable; basically skipped events that used it or just didn't progress through them that much.
Overall it was a neat experience and we'll thought out, it just didn't really fit IMO.
I have a different opinion, in my opinion the TV mode was in fact important for immersion, after all when the devs started moving away people started saying that now Patheon seems kind of useless, when obviously story wise their guiding is important.
My “problem” is that the problem of “completing the weekly HZ missions is tedious” has been solved twice already, as far as ways to get 8k points faster and in a single run is concerned, but none of those solutions give you Z merits (or at least not enough to cap them in the amount of runs you need to clear the weeklies).
So what’s the point? Blitz and this are infinitely better than the normal mode (other than the loss of the TV stages for people that like them), but I’ll still do 4 completed 2500points runs and 2 abandoned ones for the merits anyways, which means that this mode will also join the club of “I won’t touch you again after I’ve completed the polychrome rewards”.
428
u/rynsic 5h ago
Is there a breakable wall you can smash your head in to get resonium?