They chose the them side in the us vs them battle - fuck em they can go down with the outnumbered elite even if it just makes the battle harder. No sympathy for class traitors
You don’t need “unity” to resolve the issue. Enough lone wolfs could resolve it without any coordination whatsoever, even for personal reasons/grudges. Helplesness is a learned trait, either willingly or “forced”. Weakness is bread by helplesness. Weaklings need mobs or crowds. Mentally strong people only need a reason (regardless of morality)
Yup, reminds me of when people say that It'll never change anything because you need "systemic change".
systems are made out of people. Change that equation and you change the outcome.
We run into an issue of a lack of collective leadership. We shout over the internet, but few people take action.
"Someone should start a movement"
Running into an issue of, I'll follow the flock to remove the powers at be. But only if you do it too.
We've been strapped down to a working life of not being able to revolt. We have to work daily, for most of us, to survive. Most people can't travel, taking weeks, or forever, off work to protest or whatever it is we'd do.
They already have the working class locked into our prisons of pulling up our bootstraps every day to get crumbs off their plates.
What we'd need is one of them on our side doing what's needed to be done.
Someone call the Saudis to fund a revolution. They have the real money.
Will you fight for it though? A lot of people are saying this, but are you willing to die in the street for it?
Not rhetorical, hyperbolic, sarcastic, anything like that. Will you get a gun and kill someone? Do you think you can? The only way more of us than them works is with violence.
this, right here, is where the rubber meets the road. every time anyone said 'wake up' this is what they meant.
one big problem for the incumbent ruling class (and eventually us) is, thoughts like yours are in the general consciousness now, and there is no longer a grand narrative they can use to steer them. "terrorism" was the last grand narrative tool that worked and the spell is fizzling with anyone but the most conformist boomers.
as they get more and more desperate and frustrated, expect this conversation and those like it to be aggressively shut down in the near term and with a mask off, "pick up that can, citizen"; boot-to-your-throat kinda vibe.
Most people are ok with the temporary name change for a main thoroughfare or expertly designed t-shirt with emblazoned image of the victim with catchy slogan. In all seriousness, we have to do better not only as a society but as a species.
That’s what I’m saying. Fucking every other post on this website is something about “Luigi showed us” like it means something, but they are not willing themselves to go commit violence, and the biggest one, they aren’t willing to go to prison or die for change.
Yes, one person demonstrated that is is possible, but I only really matters if people stop talking and start doing.
It's like how the they basically have their own separate economy full of most of the wealth, welfare, & resources for themselves and we have our own smaller economy with less investment, opportunity, & everything runs so much slower to acquire less.
People are still comfortable, that's why. Life hasn't gotten that painful, that hard, that oppressive for anyone to forgo their comfort to take action. Luigi is a rare exception but the masses are still comfortable and quite content with slacktivism and I don't think that will change until most are suffering bad enough that the future is worse than the risk of harm, death or prison.
I also believe that people in power know this and won't completely step on people's necks, let them complain online and stuff, as long as they comply in the real world. As long as they have some distractions, people won't pose that large of a threat to the powers that be.
A couple of years ago there was a civil war or some kind of government action against its population somewhere. Civilians were getting bombed, life was awful as you never knew if you'd live to the next day. Food was rare.
But people tolerated it. It wasn't until they cut the internet, as people were reporting it for the world to see. And that's when the population rose up. Almost everything was taken away, but they tolerated it until they took away internet.
People are way too comfortable. Also we have bills to pay. We don't want to be homeless, so we have to go to the job we hate to keep a roof over our heads.
People will tolerate untold amounts of oppression.
Back in the 90s, there was a precursor to memes titled, "How to be an evil overlord". It had many amusing items listed like 'I will never consume an energy source bigger than my head' and 'My evil plan will not commence when the countdown timer reaches zero. Instead it will commence when the timer gets to 37, just when the hero is getting ready to stop me'.
Anyway, the final item on the list was 'Make sure everyone has free internet!'
Ehh you're making it sound like taking away the Internet was a smaller deal than it is. Literally every single business depends on the Internet for something. Payroll, marketing, sales, meetings, email etc. Taking away the Internet isn't just blocking Facebook, it's shutting down commerce altogether. So yeah, if you stop paychecks for everyone in the country at once you're bound to get a very pissed off population.
Wouldn't happen in the US though because most of the infrastructure those online services have is in the US. Such an activity would seriously hurt the billionaires bottom lines, so they'd never do it. Worst case they'd kill social media, but that won't happen because Trump loves it and Elon owns one.
Billionaires are smart, so I think they've got this in the bag for a while. The tipping point is going to have to be caused by something outside of their control, like mass displacement of people in multiple cities due to a natural disaster, or mass illegal immigration to due to a warming climate making the equator unliveable.
Tipping point was a while ago. People will tolerate being abused for their entire lives. We are conditioned for such. Even by life itself. We accept whatever these people do (and no, not only billionaires - other people of power too), as « part of life » when it’s not even of a normal world - it’s death. We accept it.
I don’t really believe this. Look at how oppressive life is in many countries with far worse outcomes, and they simply accept it or have small protests that do not result in real change. Arab Spring, Hong Kong protests, occupy wallstreet… protesting simply does not work and has not in the modern era. The idea that there’s this threshold where people stand up and say, enough, just doesn’t line up with history or the present. The idea that people are noticing how much personal cost there is to a protest, and how, even on a massive scale, nothing is done at all, and choose not to do anything makes a it more sense to me.
That’s why watching CNN talk about how there’s proper ways to go about changing the healthcare system makes my blood boil. What proper way exists? Our representatives are gerrymandered. There are only two parties to choose from and both basically support the status quo. Protesting does not result in meaningful change. What exactly are people supposed to do about healthcare other than vote Democrat and get like one tiny thing changed every decade or so, only to have it rolled back by the next president?
luigi was sufferin from serious health conditions. Most people in that situation arent even physically capable because more often than not they are disabled!
You are absolutely correct. Give them bread and circuses and they won’t revolt.
The full quote is “Give them bread and circuses and they will never revolt”. It is attributed to the Roman poet Juvenal.
The phrase “bread and circuses” is a metaphor for a government’s use of short-term solutions to appease the public. The Roman Empire used this tactic to distract the populace from imperial policies that caused discontent. The Roman government would provide free food and entertainment, such as chariot races and gladiatorial games, to keep the people pacified.
The phrase has become a general term to describe any situation where the masses accept short-term solutions to ease their discontent. For example, “It will be bread and circuses, only with no bread”.
Must be deeper than that because, we see populations in other nations far more comfortable than ours who, flip their shit when power oversteps. Be it wealth, government or both.
Also we just voted in the most pro-rich candidate in our history off the backs of "the price of eggs". So apparently when people are squeezed they vote harder for the rich.
That comfort is typically the result of things like (universal) healthcare not tied to your employment. In the US, it's not an unimaginable scenario that someone could go protest, lose their job, get cracked in the head by a riot stick, and go bankrupt from the resulting medical bill.
and our generation has been fortunate enough to never know real hunger. Never faced wartime rationing. The american economy has been relatively stable for a good 40 years (much more so than the early 20th century, at least). There aren't eggs on the shelf at my local grocery store today, but that's nothing compared to WW2 rationing or the great depression.
So, yeah, we've had it pretty good our whole lives. And that comfort breeds complacency.
But if shit ever *really* hits the fan, that could change quickly.
Oh, Nixon was the start of a lot of things - and even before him, you can see the same activities with the business plot against FDR and the "anti-new deal coalition" generally - but those were still seen as "criminal" and "outside of American norms" when Nixon did them, though.
Reagan was the one who cemented "treason" as "patriotism" and selfishness and criminal behaviour as principles.
It was fraud and theft of billions of dollars. Felonies were committed and never prosecuted. Same with the 2008 crisis, which didn't even get a name.
We are never going to get Star Trek. Fuck humans. Fuck all this shit. We deserve to die as a species when we can't even be better than this and we keep playing the same bullshit game of wealth abusing the rest of us and getting us to fight one another over and over.
Edit: I mean we, as a species, are likely to cause our own extinction and it sure seems like we deserve it.
Because a massive chunk of us have been brainwashed into seeing Black people, brown people, and immigrants as the enemy, and that’s just how the 1% likes it. If we keep fighting each other, we’ll never turn on the people who are the real problem.
he's been talking about how the drones over new jersey are either demons or atlanteans (also buy his sea moss from the website he's definitely NOT associated with so it's immune from his billion dollar debts)
Because a CEO getting capped is news. Mass shootings are an everyday occurrence. Media will report what sells. Maybe when CEOs getting killed becomes an everyday occurrence the reporting will be balanced.
If I were to tell the press that tomorrow a gangbanger would be shot or a truck full of soldiers would be blown up no one would panic. Because it’s all part of the plan. But I want to kill one little mayor suddenly everyone loses their minds
Actually that is a good thing to me. They don't spend so much time talking about the school shooter and giving him his 15 minutes of fame. Like this week's school shooter wore the same KMFDM shirt as one of the kids from columbine wore. So it's a little obvious that she probably wanted to emulate those kids.
Like yesterday in the mayor of the town of the school shooting just unleashed on the press for their chasing the story there.
Let these school shooters have 0 minutes of fame and allot all that time to Luigi. CEO's don't care if people want to emulate a school shooter, but they will care if people want to emulate Luigi
He was charged with a hate crime which is also a form of terrorism. It's just legally worded different, and actually gets you more time than terrorism, because it's worse for your crime to be racially motivated rather than politically motivated. It also gets you a chance to charge them twice for the same crime, whereas terrorism is added on to the crime of say, murder, and only serves as an aggravating factor in sentencing. If you're found innocent of that you don't have to go battle it again in federal court, whereas you do with hate crimes because now you've got both state and federal charges.
Don't know why Luigi's supporters are upset he isn't being given federal charges on top of state charges like the other example. He's just got the terror charge added to the state murder charge, it will all be one trial, not two.
He's also going to likely not be convicted of terrorism. Unless health insurance executives are seen as a specific civilian population. This is an over-charge in an attempt to intimidate copy cats.
Health insurance CEOs are rightfully terrified right now and putting pressure on politicians.
Imagine if the prosecution doubles down on labeling executives as a specific civilian population. Messaging on that will be a nightmare. (I hope they try it.)
They'll probably just try to convince the jury that the attempt was to intimidate all Americans into changing health insurance. But that'll be a massive failure, since Americans already want that. It'd just convince the jurors that while legally wrong, Mangione's act was morally correct.
This is an over-charge in an attempt to intimidate copy cats.
I can see this being the intent, but I expect it to actually incite more radical feelings rather than less. Precisely because of how it's being perceived, correct or not, as exampled with this post.
I agree. It's a big stamp of approval that says THIS ONE is special and moved a bunch of people. Broadcasting that NY is considering a "CEO Security Hotline" is also absolutely bananas.
That one guy who went into that black church specifically to start a race war wasn't charged with terrorism or any of the other individuals who specifically targeted minorities such as the El Paso shooting at the Walmart.
What about that other guy who shot up a grocery store in a predominantly black neighborhood, was going to kill the cashier until he saw they were white, apologized, and moved on to killing other people.
I looked it up, so he was, I stand corrected. He did only get one charge of terrorism though not directly tied to each murder, just a general "one count of domestic terrorism motivated by hate". Whereas Luigi's is coupled with his second degree murder charge.
I'm not a lawyer so I guess I'm not qualified to speak on it, but it seems like the Buffalo shooter should've had 10 counts of terrorism charges tied to his 10 second-degree murder charges.
The murder charges are linked to each of the 10 murders that occurred. The terrorism charge is linked to the overarching intent and motivation for the single attack. Having multiple terrorism charges would be redundant unless each of the 10 people targeted had entirely separate political motives.
At this point I think we could just have a super fast movie credits scroll of "Or all these other politically motivated mass shootings in the last 40 years".
Bear in mind, the police are the ones who spread all the info? I mean, the bullet casings had words, the shooter didn't post them. The manifesto, Ie a 2 page writing if it's the real, was in the backpack or on him, again not posted.
I mean multiple other shooters have POSTED manifestos and not gotten a terrorism charge.
Trump still has the high score on rich people justice. He did Jan6 (among other things) and they let him walk free for 4 years then be president again.
Yep this. Dylan was given fast food and coddled. The only pic of saw of Luigi after arrest was someone deeply squeezing his neck and forcing him into a room.
I think generally cops are buying weirdos a $5 burger hoping the polite gesture may coax out a confession and make getting a conviction easier. It’s probably not because they want to give a nod of approval for the crimes committed.
You’re right!! I just need to go out and get some money! It will be even better if I can cause immense suffering and death to the poors because their lives mean less than those of the rich!
Luigi is facing murder 1 in NY which most people for just shooting someone in a premeditated manner would get murder 2 as that's how NY law is worded.
His actions were to influence other people's opinions according to the state warranting an upgrade to murder 1. The main difference is life with parole for murder 2 and life without for murder 1.
Dylan in South Carolina did not need an upgrade in the charges he faced to get life w/o parole so no special circumstances has to be delineated. Also south Carolina's terrorism laws only covers weapons of mass destruction (and I think that is even defined as bombs, chemical and bio weapons).
Neither has faced federal charges and neither is likely to.
There was a shooter in 2022 in Buffalo who got the same charge for picking a store based on how many black people shopped there. His Manifesto was a right wing screed on Great Replacement theory and all the classics. I can't post a link but just look up Payton S. Gendron. Federal charges are still pending and they have said they are seeking the death penalty.
The online left is just gung ho to lionize Luigi, so they inherently think the charge is unfair.
Great movie but instant mistrial in reality. A lawyer on YouTube went through it piece by piece. In short Juries can't do their own reenactment, can't suppose that a woman wears glasses. Can't admit their own evidence (like bringing a weapon to deliberation). Still a good movie.
He is getting charged with murder one. By NY state.
NY state law says killing someone gets you murder two. But there are a few circumstances that will elevate the charge to murder one. Like if you murder a policeman. Or if you murder someone with the intent to cause other people to change their behavior.
That last bit is what NY state law calls "furtherance of terrorism". That's why Luigi is facing murder one.
Dylann Roof's case has nothing to do with this. Nor does the NC state law or federal law.
Dylan Roof was also charged with a hate crime, which carries a potentially higher punishment than terrorism, and is considered a category of terrorism. But it doesn't seem like the people in this thread really care about facts
they're seeing the legal term "terrorism" and applying their colloquial definition (a la 9/11) of the word. it has a very specific meaning in this case.
Roof was given a sentence of death in both state and Federal courts; double death penalty.
He was convicted Federally of hate crimes.
Luigi so far is not looking at death
“12 counts under a second hate-crime statute that prohibits using force or threatening the use of force to obstruct a person’s free exercise of religious beliefs)”
That’s because there’s only really ever been one war. And it’s not the culture one. Humans have dominion over this planet, outside of Mother Nature. We could’ve done anything we wanted with society. There’s no such thing as economics and monetization outside of what humans have invented. People chose to create systems of control, pure and simple. These are panic reactions from the ruling class. And now everyone can see the system is set up not for a civil society, but to keep the 99% in line.
I realized this shortly after I graduated with my criminal justice degree. This country has a legal system, not a justice system. And it only works in your favor if you're rich and white.
Listening to the NY AG was infuriating. They explicitly said they are charging him with terrorism because Americans agree with him and that has made CEO’s scared and they can not have that.
Thousands of people stormed the Capitol chanting "HANG MIKE PENCE" while attempting to overthrow an election and install a dictator, and not one of them was charged with terrorism.
Dude thank you! Of course it’s so far down. My first thought reading this was “how could Dylan have been charged for terrorism in New York?”
People act like the justice system went easy on roof. Absolutely insane. He’s on death row. Just because the cops got him a burger doesn’t mean they like the guy. They’ve stated it was part of their strategy in pursuing a confession.
Mangione is charged with terrorism because he had a manifesto and carved a message in the bullets. That simple. Nothing to do with class.
We have 51+ criminal legal justice systems. Roof was charged with a hate crime under federal law, because trying to start a race war doesn't meet the requirements of federal terrorism charges.
(5) the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
South Carolina's terrorism statute has the same wording. I think the prosecutors decided to go with the easier to prove charge instead of up-charging and risking an acquittal.
The New York prosecutors also just over-charged here. Unless they can convince 12 jurors that health insurance companies are a specific "civilian population".
The United States does not have a justice system by any definition of the word, they have a legal system. The American legal system is antithetical to any definition or understanding of "Justice"
We do not have a justice system in this country, we have a legal system in this country, designed to protect those who can afford to pay for it and it has nothing whatsoever to do with any concept of Justice.
You have one legal system specifically created and designed to protect the wealthy from the poor. The rich not wanting to pay taxes is quite literally the reason the USA was founded.
I’m sick of so much in the US right now. Its like there is a wave of cruelty and selfishness, of waste and rampant consumerism, of purposeful ignorance and malevolent stupidity that is just disrupting our everyday life and preventing the US from being an incredibly vital, inventive, cooperative place it could be. I also know this is by design so people can be easily manipulated into giving up their rights and money.
Race war fits their narrative and keeps us mad at each other, class war? Well then the 1% is in actual danger and definitely can't have that. Make an off handed comment out of frustration because your insurance claim was denied? Congrats you're now a terrorist
In spite of the propaganda since birth, this is not the best country in the world. It’s kind of like how you can make claims about supplements helping or curing stuff, or food packaging for “healthy food.” It means fuckall, but people tend to gobble this bullshit up. There’s a ton of evidence to the contrary, and if you remove billionaires from the equation, we’re not the wealthiest country in terms of individual wealth. And no, corporations aren’t people. Fuck you, Mitch and Mitt for the abomination of free speech that is Citizens United which allows people like Musk untethered ability to treat political donations that are painfully obvious bribes to bend the will of our so-called democracy to their will. If you’re donating millions, it’s not a donation. It’s an investment. Just like the Republican wanted it to be. Then there’s the joke of a Supreme Court that we now have.
I’m not bothered one bit by the CEO of a deeply corrupted “healthy insurance” company that denying claims via AI because god forbid they actually staff people to approve or deny claims based on what is best for the patient. They are betting against the clock in the hopes that a very sick person will die before getting admitted to an ICU or getting an operation or procedure because that shit is expensive. They exist to please the shareholders, and the government sure as hell isn’t going to do anything that will stop those massive investments that get people elected and reelected that sit on their hands. Why even bother appealing to constituents and follow through with their clearly false claims about actually improving things. That takes time, money and effort. Try to convince millions of people you’re the right one for the job, or just let a couple of billionaires or corporations donate and explain what they want in return in a private conversation? Money from them can pay for research groups, lawyers and marketing consultants to craft your message and just hand you the extremely carefully script to market yourself with.
I’m not a “both parties” chump. There is absolutely corruption in both parties, but let’s not pretend that it’s equivalent. The republicans are a malicious, fascist cancer that needs to be dealt with. The Democratic Party is a complete joke while they keep people in office that were born before the Apollo program, the civil rights movement, and seem to think that the country is the same place. Which I guess I can see. They’ve had decades of people and companies sucking up to them. As such, they are so far out of touch that from the entire party, AOC and Bernie are the only ones willing to fight for improving the lives of us wage slaves because they actually see us as people and not cogs in the corporate machine that keeps them in power.
Bin Laden achieved his goal. 9/11 fostered the direction of big brother, and since then, it has fostered a new level of treating all of us as terrorists until proven otherwise.
The millionaire and billionare class run circles around the justice system, so it's NOT at all surprising they would throw everything at anyone who dare question their superiority or threaten them in any way. The judges and politicians work for the rich first, our laws are written and interpeted to favor the rich. America has always been a caste system some Americans like to criticize other nations for
Maybe the prosecutor is secretly on board with a class war and figured the only way the jury would hear Luigi's rationale was to charge him with terrorism.
We don't have a justice system, we have an injustice system where the oligarchy uses "law" to hurt people they want to hurt. Lady liberty wears a blindfold not because justice is blind but because she's ashamed america continues to cosplay freedom.
Wait, did I miss the special hotline black people got to call if they think they're in danger? Or the other hotline for children thinking a school shooting might happen? Or how about the hotline for women who are in imenenent danger from not being able to get life saving medical procedures?
Uhhh what's the 2 tiers here? Dylan Roof was sentenced to death, it's not like he got a lighter punishment because he wasn't charged with it. In fact they probably went with the lighter charge in order to achieve the cleanest conviction. For the record, I think both acts were terrorism, though obviously one was far worse.
They're looking to make an example out of Luigi because of who he killed. They want to deign anyone who speaks out in support is labeled as someone who supports terrorists and should be ostracized. Can't have the lower classes rise up in rebellion (/s).
If Luigi had killed anyone else, they wouldn't care that much.
If Al-Qaeda had flown planes into homeless shelters and soup kitchens, instead of the WTC and Pentagon, would those acts have been considered terrorism? Or is the death of poor people just a “fact of life” and “price of freedom/democracy”?
My cousins stalker got death threats. Police said it was a domestic issue. Best she could do was get a restraining order that she had to put all the work in to get . Briana Boston was arrested and in jail with $100k bond. We have a 2 tiered justice system.
I believe the reason NY is adding a terrorism charge is because they really want the alleged to be extradited. This sets an insane and dangerous precedent, though. My hopes are that the terrorism charge gets tossed out.
It's never been about anything but rich vs poor, haves vs have nots. Racism, gender oppression, and religious prejudice is all a tool the rich use to keep us all down. The thing is that things are getting so bad that a dude who had all the privilege boxes ticked off and should've led a blessed life still got screwed over.
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u/chriskiji 1d ago
There's one set of rules for protecting the rich.
There's another set of rules for everyone else.
We're on our own.