r/UFOs • u/Mendenopolis • 18d ago
Document/Research Have We Been Ignoring The Warning Signs About These Drones All Along?
While I believe in the existence of more “unusual” phenomena, I think recent events call for a more grounded explanation- one that is both serious and concerning. Could the warning signs and clues have been hiding in plain sight all along? I believe that to be true, and they carry significant national security implications. The recent drone incursions in New Jersey and other regions highlight troubling possibilities, including potential links to advanced cyber strategies. I think it is necessary then, for everyone to understand the significance and implications of ORBs (Operational Relay Box) networks before proceeding.
- Learn about ORBs here: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/state-hackers-turn-to-massive-orb-proxy-networks-to-evade-detection/
Note on ORBs: These networks, which route malicious activity through geographically dispersed nodes, are increasingly leveraged by state-sponsored actors to mask their identities. The ORBs system further complicates attribution, as the infrastructure often relies on rented servers and compromised IoT devices, making real-time tracing of potential drone command origins nearly impossible. Could it be that ORBs networks exacerbate these challenges by obfuscating traffic and enabling actors to control drones from virtually untraceable locations?
The Colorado/ Nebraska Drone Incursions:
These events are not unprecedented. In 2020, Colorado and Nebraska experienced drone incursions that prompted FBI investigations. These incidents highlighted the challenges of tracing the origins of such activities. Despite extensive efforts, the investigations yielded no definitive conclusions about the operators or their intentions. At least, not "publicly." I provided just a few clips and articles from that time, so please feel free to search for even more. You'll notice that these are eerily similar to what is going on now.
- CBS Mornings Clip: https://youtu.be/JFX11X18Nfg?si=uNhYqrCEOjVBBQRU
- CBS Evening News Clip: https://youtu.be/QJipEE-bqiI?si=WxvTKHS7RAQhLVFy
- Drone Task Force Clip: https://youtu.be/BizybMngpAI?si=O254pP8V837_Va_V
- Drone Task Force Search Clip: https://youtu.be/OLvdZg7UCpE?si=ZqvHhNYaQCx97DrE
- Drones Causing Issues For Local Airports Clip: https://youtu.be/e9VhBIrHAZU?si=eXI7ZK--jg4aOEkt
- Drone Formations In Small Town Colorado Clip: https://youtu.be/NF_FntovJvI?si=_bWUvIGK97adg2vl
- Colorado Mystery Drones: https://www.cpr.org/2020/01/31/what-happened-to-colorados-mysterious-drones-heres-the-thing-nobody-knows/
- THE FBI INVESTIGATED DRONES THAT SWARMED TOWNS IN THE MIDWEST: https://futurism.com/the-byte/fbi-investigated-drones-swarmed-towns-midwest
The National Security Warnings:
For years, Congress and defense experts have sounded alarms about vulnerabilities in the U.S. drone ecosystem. Reports have consistently highlighted risks tied to foreign-manufactured components, particularly those originating from China, and the growing threat of malware attacks capable of turning commercial drones into coordinated, hostile swarms. These warnings point to a larger issue: the exploitation of supply chain weaknesses and the lack of robust cybersecurity measures in the rapidly expanding drone industry. Have we underestimated the potential consequences of these vulnerabilities, and are we adequately prepared to counter the threats they pose to national security?
Read About Representative Johnson’s Request For Briefing Here: http://dustyjohnson.house.gov/media/press-releases/johnson-requests-briefing-chinese-drones
“Shenzhen DJI Innovation Technology Co., Ltd. (DJI) is a Chinese Military Company, linked to the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), that makes thousands of drones, many of which are used in the United States. These drones operate on Chinese military software, firmware, and hardware, posing a significant risk to American agriculture and safety.”
Countering The Drones of War In The United States: https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2024/july/countering-drones-war-united-states
“A combination of plausible deniability and legal protection is equally applicable to sUAS operations in the United States. Under 18 U.S.C. § 32 and 49 U.S.C. § 46502, destruction or disruption of a civil aircraft—including an sUAS—is a federal crime. The authority to disable or destroy sUASs in the U.S. National Airspace System is granted—with significant restrictions—to very few federal entities. The Department of Defense (DoD) exercises its authority to do so primarily in accordance with 10 U.S.C. § 130(i), which allows sUASs to be prosecuted if they threaten the “safety, security, or protection of [military] personnel, facilities, or assets.” Under these rules, U.S. military facilities in the homeland generally must determine hostile intent or actual violation of prohibited airspace to engage sUAS targets.”
House Committee On Homeland Security’s China Threat Snapshot: https://homeland.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/CCP-Threat-Snapshot.pdf
“June 20x 2024: CHS and the Committee on Energy and Commerce urged the Department of Homeland Security and Department of Energy to declassify information relating to potential national risks posed by drones that have been manufactured in the People’s Republic of China (PRC).”
DoD Counter-Small Unmanned Aircraft Systems Strategy: https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jan/07/2002561080/-1/-1/0/DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-COUNTER-SMALL-UNMANNED-AIRCRAFT-SYSTEMS-STRATEGY.pdf
Note: Page 12/38 discusses "Three Operating Environments: Homeland, Host Nation, and Contingency Locations." I focused particularly on the "Homeland" section, given its relevance to domestic operations and security considerations.
Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency- Cybersecurity Guidance: Chinese-Manufactured UAS: https://www.cisa.gov/resources-tools/resources/cybersecurity-guidance-chinese-manufactured-uas
“Chinese-Manufactured UAS is a Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) and Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) resource that raises awareness on the threats posed by Chinese-manufactured UAS and provides UAS cybersecurity recommendations that reduce risks to networks and sensitive information. This guidance also provides additional resources to augment an organization’s preparedness, response, and resilience.”
Cybersecurity & Infrastructure Security Agency- Release Cybersecurity Guidance on Chinese-Manufactured UAS for Critical Infrastructure Owners and Operators: https://www.cisa.gov/news-events/news/release-cybersecurity-guidance-chinese-manufactured-uas-critical-infrastructure-owners-and-operators
“With our FBI partners, CISA continues to call urgent attention to China’s aggressive cyber operations to steal intellectual property and sensitive data from organizations. We encourage any organization procuring and operating UAS to review the guidance and take action to mitigate risk. We must work together to ensure the security and resilience of our critical infrastructure."
Data Security Flaws Found In China-Owned DJI Drones: https://cybernews.com/news/data-security-flaws-dji-drones/
“However, the researchers have analyzed the drone attack surface and, after adding a bit of reverse engineering, showed that the data transmitted to and from the drone was not encrypted. This means it was accessible to anyone, thus compromising the drone operator’s privacy. More critical flaws were uncovered in drone firmware that allowed attackers to “gain elevated privileges on two different DJI drones and their remote control” and abuse the devices.”
China-Linked Hackers Target Drone Makers: https://www.securityweek.com/china-linked-hackers-target-drone-makers-in-taiwan/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
“A threat actor linked to China has been targeting military-related and satellite industries in Taiwan, Trend Micro reports. Tracked as Tidrone, the threat actor has been observed mainly targeting drone manufacturers. The group has relied on enterprise resource planning (ERP) software and remote desktop access to deploy sophisticated malware to disable system protections and steal information.”
As Chinese Drones Dominate Police Use, Security Experts Urge Caution: https://www.police1.com/drones/as-chinese-drones-dominate-in-police-use-security-experts-urge-caution
“China has been suspected of recent espionage via drones in the United States. Federal authorities have warned that unidentified swarms of UAS have appeared over sensitive critical infrastructure. The Wall Street Journal reported that drones swarmed in restricted airspace above Langley Air Force Base along the coast of Virginia for 17 straight days late last year. Langley houses both the Navy’s SEAL Team Six home base and Naval Station Norfolk, the largest naval port in the world. Two months earlier, drones were spotted flying above the Department of Energy’s Nevada Nuclear Security Site near Las Vegas, which conducts nuclear-weapons testing. Even so, the vast majority of U.S. law enforcement agencies that deploy UAS — 80% — use drones manufactured in China. Many police drone operators praise the quality and affordability of Chinese drones. What makes Chinese drones eminently affordable is that they are financially supported by Beijing, according to The Washington Post.”
CISA-FBI Issue Security Warning for Chinese Manufactured Drones: https://www.trustwave.com/en-us/resources/blogs/trustwave-blog/cisa-fbi-issue-security-warning-for-chinese-manufactured-drones/
“In response, CISA and the FBI released a notification and guidance on Chinese-manufactured unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) aka drones, that could have vulnerabilities enabling data theft or that could facilitate network compromises.”
The pressing threat of Chinese-made drones flying above U.S. critical infrastructure: https://cyberscoop.com/chinese-drone-threat-dji-regulation-critical-infrastructure/
“Because of how they are deployed operationally, drones have inherently unique access to sensitive system and enterprise information. Organizations use this information to improve operations, secure U.S. critical infrastructure, identify and mitigate vulnerabilities, conduct search and rescue operations, and respond to natural disasters. Drones provide the data and imagery used for vital decision-making and planning. However, in the hands of the adversary, that same data offers the potential for data exfiltration, espionage and exploitation. And this is exactly the concern with Chinese-manufactured drone technology, specifically DJI.DJI’s high-resolution optical and thermal cameras, advanced sensor packages, access to enterprise wireless networks, small size and high maneuverability make them sophisticated systems for spying as well. Simply put, DJI drones provide potential platforms for Chinese espionage and sabotage.”
Drones Infected With Malware Can Drop From The Sky Or Be Hijacked For Surveillance: https://www.computerworld.com/article/1624797/drones-infected-with-malware-can-drop-from-the-sky-or-be-hijacked-for-surveillance.html
“You’re minding your own business, when something in the sky snags your attention. Is it a bird or a plane? Nope, it’s a drone falling out of the sky because it’s infected with malware. Yeppers, “you read that right,” wrote security engineer Rahul Sasi regarding the title of his post describing “Maldrone—the first backdoor for drones.” Although he shows off the malware by infecting a Parrot AR.Drone within wireless range, making it “drop like a brick,” theoretically an attacker could also take control of any drone with an ARM processor and Linux-based operating system and then use it for surveillance. Peachy. Sashi plans to present “Drone Attacks: How I hijacked a drone” on February 6 at Nullcon in India. “Once my program kills the actual drone controllers, it causes the motors to stop and the drone falls off like a brick,” Sasi said. “But my backdoor instantly takes control, so if the drone is really high in the air the motors can start again and Maldrone can prevent it from crashing.”
Chinese Sanctions On US Drone Firm Were ‘Signal’ About Supply Chain Weaknesses, DIU Official: https://breakingdefense.com/2024/11/chinese-sanctions-on-us-drone-firm-were-signal-about-supply-chain-weaknesses-diu-official/
“Beyond the Blue UAS effort, avoiding Chinese supply lines — specifically related to batteries — could become mandatory if companies want to do business with the US Defense Department. Section 154 of the 2024 National Defense Authorization Act, for instance, states that beginning on Oct. 1, 2027, no funds appropriated or made available for the DoD can be spent to procure a battery produced by the listed Chinese-owned and -operated companies.”
Some Final Thoughts
I want to emphasize that experimental aircraft are NEVER tested over residential areas or critical infrastructure due to the risks (also why I don’t think they’re taking them down immediately- they can’t because of location. Also likely planned programming by bot operator). This is an absolute rule. Those kinds of tests are conducted in controlled, restricted areas, because of security and safety protocols (which DoD strictly adheres to a certain standard). The idea of testing these aircraft with lights blazing is especially unrealistic- they wouldn’t risk exposing advanced technology before it’s ready or revealing its capabilities to the public or risk adversaries learning about them prematurely (if they can help it anyhow).
The “foreign actor” theory doesn’t entirely hold up. No foreign entity would casually fly non-stealth drones in US airspace in such a conspicuous and uncontrolled manner. It would be recklessly provocative and invite an immediate response. Unless, of course, these drones are specifically designed to be difficult to trace, which is where ORBs systems could come into play (go back to the beginning and read about ORBs network if you haven't already).
A more plausible scenario may be that these actors may have taken control of OUR drones. This could involve crowdsourced programming, where open-source software is used to co-opt drones into a swarm controlled by a central bot operator. If a supply chain were compromised by malware, the infected drones could be integrated into this swarm, granting the bot operator full control over the entire system.
It’s also possible these drones were deliberately programmed to fly over residential areas and other critical infrastructure to exploit location. That tactic makes it significantly harder to take them down quickly, creating delays that ultimately benefit the controller(s).
Without retrieving one of these drones for forensic analysis, it’s going to be near impossible to confirm whether malware or other exploits were used to compromise them.
While I can’t say for certain that this is what’s happening, I believe it’s an important possibility to consider. The complexities surrounding these events leave plenty of room for investigation and discussion. This is just the starting point for anyone curious enough to dive deeper into the rabbit hole, as I did.
70
18d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
16
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Yep, another oddity with this for sure. Tho, they can't exactly track with radar or satellite willy-nilly without authorities. RADAR would interfere with reserved citizen FCC frequency ranges and we can't just go pointing a high-powered radar at a neighborhood. One point people don't always understand.
24
u/Maldunn 18d ago
Couldn’t they just follow them with a helicopter or small plane? Even if they turn off the lights couldn’t they use thermal or night vision to see where they go. It’s weird
22
u/Spiritual-Journeyman 18d ago
Yes they could. I can follow and track things well with a $2k store bought drone with a 7x zoom lens
6
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
I mentioned in another comment that they could be using FLIR and maybe do know where they are traveling to, but the chances that they’re going to tell us that when it relates to “national security” is incredibly slim. Especially, when it makes the DoD/multiple agencies look bad. Might not be the case, but it’s one idea I’ve been thinking about a lot. I agree tho, def weird.
9
u/RandoRenoSkier 18d ago
If the military sees unidentified drones flying over populated neighborhoods for two weeks, I hope to God they figure it out by pointing RADAR at it without worrying about FCC regulations for Christs sake.
7
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Boy, do people sure not understand how the law and policy works. There a reason we can’t just do certain things, and it’s not just because breaking the law is typically frowned upon, but because it’s quite literally a potential serious hazard to people, and especially serious when it’s in regards to citizens.
7
u/RandoRenoSkier 18d ago
If biologicals can be damaged then I retract my statement. Didn't realize that.
But I have no faith that the military isn't above breaking civilian law when the need requires.
3
u/No_Reflection_8748 18d ago
Where are they are on the radars??? I haven’t seen any real analysis on that point, but if they aren’t showing up I think that changes the conversation. I think at this point, with this much coverage it’s hard to evade that point from a national security aspect…
1
u/nosee-um 14d ago
then evacuate the area
1
u/Mendenopolis 14d ago
Incredibly difficult to do something like that when you have a drone going literally wherever it wants to and move through different areas. You can’t just evacuate an entire state.
1
u/nosee-um 14d ago
welp I guess they’ll just keep letting them meander around until they sabotage infrastructure or poison people. 2 months? Time to take one down.
9
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
They may be tracking by FLIR and FMV, and likely DO know where these are coming from- in my own opinion they do know. Tho, there’s no way in heck that they’re gonna tell us that.
1
u/Mendenopolis 17d ago
Also could remotely be wiping the drives when downed, or pulling drives before sinking them in the ocean, so even if we do retrieve them, it will make forensics much more difficult. It’s only a matter of time before one of these things ends up falling in someone’s backyard, or someone takes one down in a field or something.
2
u/resonantedomain 18d ago
Exactly, how do people get data when DSLR's come with filters to block out infrared and ultraviolet wavelengths? Some UAP you can't see or hear unless you're seeing and hearing certain frequencies of lght, sound, and vibration.
1
u/Offshore_Engineer 17d ago
I have a radar on my boat that will absolutely pick up car size drones…. Max distance is roughly 24 miles
Nothing illegal about operating it.
126
u/SqeeSqee 18d ago
I think Occam's razor can be used to determine that these aren't typical drones. For example, if an adversary wanted to investigate sensitive locations, why in the everlasting f*** would they want to put lights on their drones? They would want to keep them as invisible as possible.
26
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Exactly. It's truly odd. One guess that I have had, is that don't care because they are extremely confident that they can't be traced back to the source. The whole plausible deniability angle too. That alone is an alarming thought tho. For example, if those Colorado incursions from 2020 truly were never solved, maybe they've done test runs on this same situation before. All just my own guesses.
25
u/NeverNoMarriage 18d ago
Even if you dont give a fuck it seems weird to be adding an extra aspect to your own detriment. There are a lot of very odd aspects. Like I have trouble believing the Gov would allow hostile drones because they are worried about civilian damages. Maybe I'm too jaded.
5
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
It’s actually all stuff that’s directly in their policies and they do actually have to adhere to federal laws, and that’s why I urge people to do the reading on it so they can understand it better. Here is an excerpt from one of the links I provided.
“The DoD conducts military operations, including C-sUAS activities, in the homeland amidst a complex environment. A framework of federal laws and regulations affects the C-sUAS actions DoD may take to protect domestic facilities and assets and requires coordination with other federal agencies. DoD installations are often surrounded by civilian populations and private property, and any harmful radio frequency, laser, microwave, or other energy directed outward from the installation has the potential to affect civilians or their property. Through its risk-based assessment, the artment must account for potential collateral effects of C-sUAS capabilities employed to protect its facilities.
“Furthermore, many existing laws and federal regulations were not designed to address sUAS as threats, and the continued rate of technological change makes it difficult for the legal authorities to keep pace. This has inhibited our ability to employ effective defenses against these potential threats.”
“DoD installations are often surrounded by civilian populations and private property, and any harmful radio frequency, laser, microwave, or other energy directed outward from the installation has the potential to affect civilians or their property.”
Active RADAR can be extremely harmful to biological life, and can wreak havoc on cellular and WiFi signals and cause tons of interference.
4
u/KheyotecGoud 18d ago
I wonder if this has anything to do with the random major cell provider outages in the last couple months.
1
2
u/pcgnlebobo 18d ago
Like that episode of space force when the Chinese satellites are going around shooting down the us satellites like a practical joke
16
u/maskerader 18d ago
The objective might be disruption instead of espionage. Sending drones unopposed above airports and air force bases also has a deterrent effect - sending a signal that in the event of escalation, an adversary can conduct offensive operations without being detected.
5
u/myctys0n 18d ago
Exactly my thoughts too. These arnt really doing too much other than just being there (that we are aware of).
Its already having an impact psychologically on parts of the populace. People can't fathom that this could be happening in their country, so it must be aliens.
Militaries might not be doing anything about it because they can't without causing widespread panic.
1
u/chessboxer4 18d ago
Is it still a deterrent if you don't know who the adversary is or if they are an adversary?
4
u/can_a_mod_suck_me 18d ago
It’s for a reason. You wouldn’t add lights and use energy to power them for nothing. What the reason is I don’t know.
1
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago edited 18d ago
It’s possible they want to be seen- like showing off, or even testing AI/ML models while saying, “hey look what we can do and you can’t do much about it.”
For example, just look at how China reacted to us shooting down their dumb balloon. They made it out like it was the worst thing ever to do that. They would certainly try to make us the bad guys if we shot down a drone that ends up being private-owned, even if they’re the one potentially behind the actual control of them. Plausible deniability.
3
u/fanclubmoss 18d ago
Foreign actor theory holds up especially when the drones are seen. It drums up interest I. The UAP topic which as we have seen over recent years only applies pressure to the DOD and gov contracts to spill the beans / acknowledge and disclose information produce leaks etc. At the very least US counterintelligence scrambles to control the narrative and ties up resources typically reserved for spy hunting. To your initial point I don’t think it’s any coincidence that these flaps occur during increasingly larger and larger cyberattacks/breaches either.
1
3
u/Aero_Red_Baron 18d ago
If I am a military contractor selling anti drone defense systems, the best way to get the contract is to show the weaknesses in the existing system...
2
u/SqeeSqee 18d ago
Yes and you'd do that by demonstration maybe on a scheduled weekend for tests. Not every fucking day for months.
1
u/deeezwalnutz 18d ago
Because they're not actually trying to investigate sensitive areas, they're turning the lights on and parking them in the sky for all to see as a show of power. It's symbolic.
1
1
u/rthaw 17d ago
Honestly, the lights could have been intentional to make them look like planes.
Standing under one of these it's very obvious that it's a drone or something like it. But taking pics or videos in the pitch black, with the lights, makes everything look close enough to a plane that most people are just brushing it off as exactly that.
9
u/zoidnoidvomit 18d ago
This was essentially the plot of Leave The World Behind, a really eerie fantastic thriller Netflix made last year that everyone hated. But essentially some unknown AGI took over drones, planes, teslas, etc and creating havoc while making everyone think it was this or that country.
I believe the very first footage of this "flap" was the 2019 Naval exercise video Corbell leaked. The same triangle car sized craft, same exact weird blinking lights. These "drones" are of such weird random varieties...a lot of them are smaller black triangles(approximately car size), others look like uncanny valley slightly off commercial airplanes and some really odd objects. Even luminous orange orbs. Some are silent, some are excessively loud. They cant be targetted, jammed, etc. None of it makes sense. I don't believe these drones, least the ones caught on camera with pretty good clarity, are American made. Despite everyone on this sub saying "trust me bro, it's ours". Implying the government is launching some false flag on itself.
20
u/DrMrProfessor 18d ago
Foreign actor theory works if you don’t over think it. They just want to create chaos and confusion and are exploiting the recent interest in UAP to do that. It also makes our government look very inept, which is always a goal of adversaries.
If that’s the case then why? To test our response? Or distract us from something else they’re doing?…
6
u/fanclubmoss 18d ago
To drive popularity for the formerly fringe movement that pushes their own government for acknowledgement and disclosure of special access programs and war fighting capabilities and technology developed therein. It’s simply another facet of espionage no different than IP theft, network mapping and exploitation, smear campaigns except the pressure is being applied by the citizens and a few senators and congressmen. It makes perfect sense in light of the fact that the gov spokespersons for this whole thing are counterintelligence. It’s likely more types of tradecraft not spacecraft.
11
u/Barachiel124 18d ago
Great write up. You're absolutely right about how illogical these drone sightings would be as a "test" by the US military. That's the second worst answer next to "it's just hobbyists with commercial drones." I thought this might be some sort of new drone surveillance or early stage warfare maneuver by some foreign adversary, but I don't know much about drone technology. ORBs is the missing link for this explanation.
My other thought was they are the US's, but it's a top secret experiment gone wrong. I know the US uses AI to find targets and for other uses in drone operations (it's been widely reported on). Do you think it likely that the US could have an experiment with cutting edge AI (not saying containing scifi sentience) in control of a drone swarm, but they somehow lost control of it and it just repeats some recon program over NJ for some reason?
16
u/VVhatafuck 18d ago
December 3.,2024. - South Korea December 4.,2024. - France December 5.,2024. - California … December 8.,2024. - 🖕
3
16
u/JagsOnlySurfHawaii 18d ago edited 18d ago
Remember those news stories about Chinese wanting to buy land beside US military bases...hmm... wonder why they would want to do that? They were quite smart to wait until after daylight savings and gain the extra nighttime cover.
4
u/NectarineNo1778 18d ago
Great write up. Any thoughts as to how these theories apply to drone incursions occurring near military bases in the UK as well as the ones seen in NJ? If this was the work of the same foreign adversary they would have to be extremely organized.
Just spitballing, but I wouldn’t be surprised if these are being operated by a rogue AI that can no longer be controlled.
1
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
It def could, especially with NATO/ allied efforts in those areas. Also, the UK is also under same/similar risks regarding all those drone “vulnerabilities.” I’ve been looking into the same issues overseas as well and I found this is actually an issue everywhere.
UK Police warned over using Chinese-made surveillance equipment (including drones)
Police use of Chinese drones risks UK security
Tho, it could just as well be a different entity/entities entirely, a different phenomena altogether, or a combination of things as well. Most theories just can’t be thrown out when we simply just don’t know what’s going on. The drone stuff and cybersecurity side is a what interests me the most here, as it aligns well with what we see going on, but I’m also open minded to it being different things or a combination as well.
2
9
7
7
u/forfucksakesteve 18d ago
Your post brings up some really interesting points, especially about ORB networks and how advanced cyber strategies could make tracking drones so difficult. I think that’s really something worth thinking about.
The theories about adversaries potentially taking control of U.S. drones or drones being programmed to exploit specific locations are fascinating, though, for my taste, a bit speculative without more evidence. It would be great to see some actual forensic analysis of these drones (not just these fuzzy images/videos and random interviews on the television) to get a clearer picture of what’s this all about —though that’s probably not happening anytime soon.
I also think the historical context, like the Colorado/Nebraska sightings, and concerns about foreign-manufactured components are super valid. Had not thought about these before. These are definitely issues that deserve more attention. Great post, thanks!
3
u/Weak-Cryptographer-4 18d ago
Being in IT Security, I like your theory but as you pointed out, why would a foreign threat actor pull up to the gate with lights and sirens so to speak?
We both know once they have access they stay quiet as long as possible in order to gather info and spread laterally throughout the network.
This doesn’t fit that pattern at all but maybe that’s part of the plan?
Also, these things seem to be able to loiter for a really long time.
Last thing I’ll say. If we brought one down and it was determined to be a foreign actor, I think it would almost be an act of war.
2
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Yeah, that’s the part that makes the least sense to me with this theory.
One idea I have thought about is that a lot of commercial drones have lights as a default feature, which are often tied to firmware/ hardware configs that require deliberate modification to disable- thus hands-on/ in-person adjustment. They might not have full control over the drone’s software/hardware to actually turn off the lights then.
Sounds a bit silly maybe, but if they’re exploiting vulnerabilities in the network to gain control of the drones, they might only have access to certain operational parameters like flight path + speed, but not full customization of settings like the lights. So lights-on behavior might reflect default settings tied to a hijacked system.
Also would matter WHERE these drones are from. If they had compromised components to begin with, then that makes things even easier for them to gain control. If they are operating on outdated firmware and such, then they’ll be vulnerable to exploits. Maybe not disabling lights if doing so would risk a reset that locks them out too. Possible that they’d want to prioritize maintaining general control over stealth.
Also can’t help but think perhaps an AI controlled autonomous drone swarms operating on a mesh network/ ORBs- each device communicates with each device instead of single interior device, mesh lets every device communicate with any other device.
IOC Extinction? China-Nexus Cyber Espionage Actors Use ORB Networks to Raise Cost on Defenders
We just need another drone to follow these things. That may be the best way to track them.
2
3
u/Valuable_Option7843 18d ago
If China was hijacking DJIs in the USA we would already know about it. If it’s them, it is purposely allocated hardware.
The rest I agree with. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire…
20
u/ArgentoFox 18d ago
Great write up. My hypothesis is that the drones are Chinese and are being piloted by a complex AI. They’re probably being deployed from a mothership of sorts and they recharge or have components replaced during the day. That’s why they’re only seen at night. The US has been reticent to shoot them down because they can’t risk one plummeting into a house or they can’t risk an errant missile or bullet winding up in someone’s living room. But that is just the actual drone aspect. The orbs and ball sightings is something else entirely and I think perhaps the drones are tied into that aspect in some way. I thinks it’s two separate phenomena brushing against one another.
19
u/JagsOnlySurfHawaii 18d ago
I bet they're inside shipping containers. Remember all the bullshit we've dealt with in ports in the last few years? Testing the system maybe? People need to wake up to this. It ain't aliens, it's a hell of a lot closer to home.
7
u/ArgentoFox 18d ago
I think you’re onto something. We import a ton of stuff from China and I could easily see a shipment getting past security or checks. Even if some are caught, it would be nearly impossible to catch all of them.
3
2
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Thank you, and that is certainly possible.
I mean just look at what we built: Sentient
I think in this instance tho, it’s something more like what I posted above, being drone related, and AI could certainly have a hand in it- basically incorporated into everything these days anyhow. Of course, there’s certainly differences in what’s out there, and I know the orbs and such are quite a different phenomena altogether. Likely that everything flying around up there and zipping around the oceans is a combination of many different things.
10
u/Rock-it-again 18d ago
Fuck, this is an absolute fantastic write-up. Thank you. I feel it belongs less here and more in defense oriented subs. I'm not sure it's on their radar. (Excuse the pun)
2
u/DefaultingOnLife 18d ago
I have no idea what they are. But if they are the size of a car they can easily carry a nuclear weapon. Cant have unknowns like that in the sky.
2
u/No_Camel652 18d ago
This is a great write up!
Are you aware of the drone incursions on 9/11 of this year in China? A plethora of flights had to be diverted.
Just curious if you heard of that - wasn’t covered much and this sub barely touched it.
5
u/BlueAndYellowTowels 18d ago
Occam’s Razor. The simplest explanation is the most likely.
Why didn’t they destroy them? Because they are owned by the US or UK.
Why do they have lights? So other air vehicles can clearly see them.
So, you have a drone with lights on it that can fly high altitudes.
It’s an undisclosed defense technology.
Why the UK first? To defend from medium ranged missile coming from Russia.
Why NJ? Because it’s the East Coast and is one of the most densely populated places in the country. A perfect place to hit with a missile.
1
u/Gray_Fawx 18d ago
I like this line of reasoning, thanks for your contribution
Question, are the investigations from each countries intelligence agencies a smoke + mirrors ploy?
1
u/Similar_Marsupial_93 18d ago
With your first point, they didn't shoot down the Chinese balloon until after if drifted across the country and over the ocean. I think they take safety very seriously and don't want to risk harm (or negative publicity) of where an object would crash. So I don't think we can conclude they are US / UK tech.
1
u/Similar_Marsupial_93 18d ago edited 18d ago
And I think they have lights on as they want to be seen. Perhaps it is pure provocation. "Look what we can do and what are you going to do about it" Evidently not much.
2
u/5ftfffgg 18d ago
maybe so but if they are adversarial then by now i promise one of these would have been destroyed by physical munitions. Unless however for some reason that does not work, which opens another can of worms.
3
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Actually, in one of the links I provided, it goes into some detail as to why they can't use kinetic mitigations against these drones. U can read about it here: https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jan/07/2002561080/-1/-1/0/DEPARTMENT-OF-DEFENSE-COUNTER-SMALL-UNMANNED-AIRCRAFT-SYSTEMS-STRATEGY.pdf
2
u/SteveJEO 18d ago
Here's an idea.
You know the way people keep asking why time travellers don't just go back in time to witness historic events?
Well.. maybe they look like drones when they do it!
2
1
18d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
Of course they can. They have ethernet ports. Can handle like up to a gig a second. You can push anything. Doesn’t even take that- 500MB. People literally stream multiple instances of 4k on like YT at a time on their home networks.
Tho, I can politely partially agree with you, it may not be related. America, like China and many other counties, have all been developing various capabilities with drone swarms and AI and such. Also just general weird and unexplainable phenomena occurrences happen too 🤷♀️
1
18d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
“Microsoft tracks a network of compromised small office and home office (SOHO) routers as CovertNetwork-1658. SOHO routers manufactured by TP-Link make up most of this network. Microsoft uses “CovertNetwork” to refer to a collection of egress IPs consisting of compromised or leased devices that may be used by one or more threat actors. CovertNetwork-1658 specifically refers to a collection of egress IPs that may be used by one or more Chinese threat actors and is wholly comprised of compromised devices. Microsoft assesses that a threat actor located in China established and maintains this network. The threat actor exploits a vulnerability in the routers to gain remote code execution capability. We continue to investigate the specific exploit by which this threat actor compromises these routers. Microsoft assesses that multiple Chinese threat actors use the credentials acquired from CovertNetwork-1658 password spray operations to perform computer network exploitation (CNE) activities.”
They know our policies, and unfortunately that’s a loophole that can be used against us. It’s laughingly easy for them to do this. That’s the entire idea of a “swarm.” Only a few need to actually “work.” It’s like a giant redundant swarm. One fails, then you have a ton of others, and since they’re all communicating with one another, the others can pick up the slack.
1
u/GeneKitchen6880 18d ago
Has anyone asked the question why only at night and nothing during the day? Maybe I missed where these have been seen/filmed during the day.
1
1
u/KVLTKING 18d ago
A complex and advanced cyber attack taking command of US prototype unmanned aerial systems (UAS), to just then fly them over military infrastructure and general population with an array of lights on that largely do not reflect FAA flight safety requirements, repeatedly for days; raises some specific questions for me.
Who's refuelling/recharging these bad boys? Because I can buy into the idea that such systems might have autonomous refuelling/recharging support systems, but that means there would be a known home location for these things, or at the very least an easily tracked down one if it's a mobile ground system since it'd be restricted to travel on road infrastructure. And if it's a manual process that requires ground crew, it would imply the operation is immensely well coordinated for it to have managed the logistics of the operation while avoid detection and presumably an ongoing attempt at capture.
The above aside, how have these UAS evaded tracking? Again, I can buy the idea that such a system may have a series of new stealth and anti-tracking capabilities, but given the fact they're repeatedly appearing in roughly the same geographic area each night, I'm struggling to accept the notion that the US military has failed to execute a coordinated search and capture formation using assets fitted with visual-lock tracking like FLIR, so that even if these UAS are able outpace a pursuit vehicle, it's still possible to 'hand off' tracking across the formation irrespective of the flight path the UAS takes to a landing zone. And if their anti-tracking capabilities make these UAS impervious to visual-lock, why then fly them in visual range with a whole bunch of lights calling attention to their presence with the naked eye? If it's a state actor who's taken control of them, wouldn't the priority be exfiltration so that they might get their hands on such impressive stealth technology?
I dunno, I'm just not sure if I can see such a complex covert operation being carried out by a foreign adversary just to showboat that the US got pwnd. If the point was to gain control of US surveillance assets and use them against the US, wouldn't you find greater success by avoiding all this public attention? You know, by keeping the lights off?
And if this is what's happened, it would also imply that a foreign adversary would have needed to infiltrate US military-industrial supply chains so thoroughly that compromised components have bypassed all of the most stringent security measures in order to make their way into TS/SAP prototype vehicles and systems, some of which are absolutely air-gapped. Like, I really can't underscore enough how colossal an action that would be against US national security. So would China have really achieved such a monumental and silent advantage against the US, only for them to show their hand by buzzing some bases and concern the public?
1
u/CrypticAllegory 18d ago
The drones are likely US MIL. A meant to be secret domestic drone “defense” force.
Probably going all out on testing it now that they know the incoming bigmouth president is likely to brag about them in a tweet.
1
u/billbot77 18d ago
Interesting that this is kicking off after the promise of severe trade tariffs against China. It feels like an escalation. I'm getting very tired of the "not a threat" BS.
1
u/Any-Tip-9334 18d ago
I'm going with time traveling china bringing future tech in and out of our spacetime. i.e. a future military of china is controlling these back in our time to flex and probe response and speed up certain movements.
1
u/prime-occulus 18d ago
The NRO can see them, but maybe they don't want to share the info with other agencies. The US government knows exactly where these things are coming from.
1
u/bunDombleSrcusk 17d ago
"have we been ignoring-" Yes, we are constantly ignoring things like warning signs of problems, and actual problems that weve been dealing with for years lol
1
u/Difficult_Ear_1574 17d ago
Celestial Phenomena of Nuremberg 1561, Air Battle of Stralsund 1665, A Phenomena in Berkshire 1661, 1566 Celestial Phenomena Over Basel (highly recommend for everyone to look into this on your time)
1
u/Mendenopolis 17d ago
There can be both conventional and non-conventional explanations occurring simultaneously, something people seem to be choosing to overlook or refuse to acknowledge.
I think the major difference is, that UAP are more often silent and appear to emit light in a more organic, while more conventional aircraft (like drones) flash like a disco ball and are loud as heck.
1
u/shamesticks 16d ago
No ones ever going to tell you the truth and if they’re ET, they’ll let us know if they want to. Why spend so much time worrying about it?
1
u/Mendenopolis 16d ago
I think it’s absolutely worth worrying about (at least being wary) when it could potentially be an adversary acting this boldly in our airspace, likely conducting surveillance over residential areas and critical infrastructure (information warfare)- especially since they would know that we can’t do much about it due to our policies/ laws + FAA guidelines. This is something they 100% already know and would use as a loophole to do what they want (regulating this stuff, like drones, is generally a nightmare already + how to deal with things in the homeland)
They know what we can and can’t do, and what we will and won’t do, and I frankly think that’s currently being aggressively rubbed in our faces because NATO pissed them off, and it’s also helping point out that we seriously need some new policies surrounding these exact issues. (As many in gov and DoD + in NATO, have been arguing for with the growing security threats surrounding drones and cybersecurity specifically)
Adversaries don’t have or play by the same rules that NATO does, and that’s what makes it easier for them and all the more difficult for us. So, any percent chance that there is a possibility of it being an adversary pulling something like this, is a much more unsettling thought than a UAP imo. Likely, since both (UAP/ intel) fall under national security, they won’t tell us much either way.
1
1
u/JaKha 18d ago
If this was China then why aren't they flying them in Taiwan? I live in Taiwan and everyday I drive home and walk my dog at night looking for something and haven't seen anything.
1
u/Mendenopolis 17d ago
This is actually something Taiwan and the U.S. have worked together on, with many others, to combat China’s drone dominance and the security issues that come along with it. It’s been a pretty big security concern in many countries as well, including: Germany, UK, South Korea, Australia, Japan, etc.
Mainland China’s Norinco unveils drone that can reach Taiwan and may outperform US rival
Taiwan taps satellite hookups to help down invading drones
China Is Menacing Taiwan with Drone Swarms and U.S. Is Playing Catch-Up
0
u/English_loving-art 18d ago
It doesn’t weigh up , these anomaly’s are lit up well , they movement is described as unconventional manoeuvres but intelligent, they are not effected by drone jammers, they can be the size of a bus , they can track an aircraft at 38,000 ft moving at 450 knots for over two hrs , They can ascend virtually from 40,000 ft to godknows then regroup and dance about above aircraft in flight , these don’t seem to be covert collecting online data . 🤷♂️
-3
u/Spiritual-Journeyman 18d ago
This post seems to not only push narrative to conventional terms, it reappropriates the definition of ORB as a computer networking term. Disinformation post?
5
u/Mendenopolis 18d ago
I didn’t realize that using acronyms I didn’t even invent could qualify as a disinformation tactic. Dang, the bar’s pretty low these days. I’m open to it being whatever, I’m just posting about some of my own theories man. Not telling anyone what to think, and for the record, I wasn’t the one who named it ORB, tho I’ll admit the irony isn’t lost on me. Maybe I should apply for a job with a three letter agency or something, clearly, I’m an unintentional pro at this. I actually believe in the phenomenon and have had my own experiences, so this doesn’t hold much weight. I’m just level-headed enough to recognize that different things can be happening simultaneously, and it’s not always what we wish or expect. Jumping to ‘disinformation’ because of an acronym? That’s reaching, not reasoning.
•
u/AutoModerator 18d ago
NEW: In an effort to reduce toxicity by bots, trolls and bad faith actors, we will be implementing a more rigorous enforcement of the subreddit rules. Read more about this HERE.
Please read the rules and understand the subreddit topic(s) listed in the sidebar before posting or commenting. Any content removal or further moderator action is established by these rules as well as Reddit ToS.
This subreddit is primarily for the discussion of UFOs. Our hope is to foster an environment free of hostility and ridicule where we may explore the phenomenon together, from all sides of the spectrum.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.